Where are the umpire apologists tonight?

[plugger66]

i don't know why the maggot made such a mistake....and a mistake it certainly was, as verified by the afl itself.....was it cheating, incompetence, a filth supporter by birth or just merely swayed by a baying crowd??....my guess is that he has the same dislike of milne shared by the general non saints footballing public.....in any event he cost us a draw and a possible chance for a win....


i see from re-quoted responses that the normal afl apologists say the free(technically) was there.......WRONG.....it wasn't...shows what they know about our game.....nothing...and one even claims to be a maggot himself ffs....



"An AFL spokesman said the Monday review of umpires' decisions concluded ''the free was unwarranted, and should not have been paid''.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/c ... z22phCCyPj

There is only one maggot on this board. Wont name him but he is gutless person who lies about his job. Plus one.

[Austinnn]

Just so you know, the reason that we have field umpires and not more sophisticated methods of officiating a game i.e. video umpiring and so on is because there is a theory in professional sporting circles that the contention of decisions adds an excitement element to the entertainment, that you wouldn't get if all decisions were indisputably correct.

In other words, if we spend all week arguing an umpire's decision that's good for the sport. So don't expect there to be any change whatsoever.

[dragit]

Pretty sure I could argue all week about a computers decisions too, going on what I've been upto today.
Imagine how slow the game would be if we stopped after every contest to check the video…

[8856brother]

Pretty sure I could argue all week about a computers decisions too, going on what I've been upto today.
Imagine how slow the game would be if we stopped after every contest to check the video…

I would have happily sat through a 10 hour 2009 GF if it meant the Hawkins poster decision was over turned. Just me.

[dragit]

Pretty sure I could argue all week about a computers decisions too, going on what I've been upto today.
Imagine how slow the game would be if we stopped after every contest to check the video…

I would have happily sat through a 10 hour 2009 GF if it meant the Hawkins poster decision was over turned. Just me.

true, me too.
but how about 10 hour ross lyon home & away specials, 7 goals to 5… like the bulldogs one a couple of years ago?
Your entry ticket would have to come with a fork, to gouge your own eyes out.

[8856brother]

Pretty sure I could argue all week about a computers decisions too, going on what I've been upto today.
Imagine how slow the game would be if we stopped after every contest to check the video…

I would have happily sat through a 10 hour 2009 GF if it meant the Hawkins poster decision was over turned. Just me.

true, me too.
but how about 10 hour ross lyon home & away specials, 7 goals to 5… like the bulldogs one a couple of years ago?
Your entry ticket would have to come with a fork, to gouge your own eyes out.

True. I didn't think of that. Good point. That would be painful.

[Life Long Saint]

And how can the AFL fix umpire errors? The clubs cant fix player errors even though they try about 6 times a week. Also umpires work on around 85% correct not 80%.

85% error rate is totally unacceptable. I work in IT and if we worked at that error rate then we'd still be using pencil & paper for complex calculations.
Imagine the police or doctors working to that figure?
Or even your friendly tradesman...Would you live in a house or drive a car that was only 85% right?

Comparing the umpires error rate to the players efficiency is not relevant.
Players are required to execute gross and fine motor skills with an irregular shaped object in often wet and slippery conditions with a tremendous amount of physical pressure.
Umpires need to look at a situation and decide whether a rule has been broken. It is not that hard! It is infinitely easier than actually playing the game.
What the umpires need to do first and foremost is stop guessing. If they don't see something then say so. 10% of errors would go with that one adjustment.
Then you'd address why the umpires miss free kicks. Are they in the wrong position? Are there blind spots around contests where one of the three can't see? Do we need to add another field umpire and they each control a quadrant? All these questions could be addressed and errors reduced by becoming a professional body and investing in technology training aids to help them.

We simply can't accept a 15% error rate from the rule enforcers.

You arent seriously comparing a job in an office or on a building site to umpiring. Please tell me that is a joke. Do 30 players run around a building site and get in the way of tradesmen. 85% is very good. Obviously just about impossible to get better due to the nature of the game. Even when commentators watch the game on TV one says a decision is wrong and the other says it is right and that is from above the play. Umpires are at ground level and a player can get in the way, they could see it differently to how it is or it can be subjective. Most decisions in the AFL subjective because of the rules. You have a second or two to make up your mind with crowds screaming, which shouldnt matter but obviously can, and because of things in and out of your control you make mistakes. You say players have physical pressure. Can you tell me why a good kick misses goals from 30 metres out dead in front after a mark. No physical pressure there. Surely every player should be above 85% for those kicks. I will guess and say they arent.

I would love some of the whingers on here to one day umpire a game and realise how hard it can be. Obviously I know the umpires have 100's of more hours of practice but at least you would get an idea about umpiring. I know a few dont like Finey on here but he admits he was an umpire basher from way back until he did a few games at our club. Now he at least sees why it is so hard to do even if during a game he continues to have a go at them.

Sorry, P66 but I am serious. 85% is not a good enough target. For a full-time, professional employee an accuracy rate of 85% is not acceptable. And the fact that they're not full-time is the key.

And, for the record, I have umpired. And you should only pay what you can see. Don't guess at a decision. That is when the errors occur. They should be in the best position to see the free kicks...or at least one of them should be.

On the goal kicking comparison...another pointless effort. Typically that footballer has just executed a number of 40m sprints to be in a position to get the ball. He then has to compose himself, line up the goals, have half the crowd booing him and trying to put him off and execute a skill all within 30 seconds.
If you're going to compare like for like then compare the umpire's decision to the player deciding where to run to get the pass in the first place. That is the split second thinking that is akin to blowing the whistle for the free.

[maverick]

And how can the AFL fix umpire errors? The clubs cant fix player errors even though they try about 6 times a week. Also umpires work on around 85% correct not 80%.

85% error rate is totally unacceptable. I work in IT and if we worked at that error rate then we'd still be using pencil & paper for complex calculations.
Imagine the police or doctors working to that figure?
Or even your friendly tradesman...Would you live in a house or drive a car that was only 85% right?

Comparing the umpires error rate to the players efficiency is not relevant.
Players are required to execute gross and fine motor skills with an irregular shaped object in often wet and slippery conditions with a tremendous amount of physical pressure.
Umpires need to look at a situation and decide whether a rule has been broken. It is not that hard! It is infinitely easier than actually playing the game.
What the umpires need to do first and foremost is stop guessing. If they don't see something then say so. 10% of errors would go with that one adjustment.
Then you'd address why the umpires miss free kicks. Are they in the wrong position? Are there blind spots around contests where one of the three can't see? Do we need to add another field umpire and they each control a quadrant? All these questions could be addressed and errors reduced by becoming a professional body and investing in technology training aids to help them.

We simply can't accept a 15% error rate from the rule enforcers.

You arent seriously comparing a job in an office or on a building site to umpiring. Please tell me that is a joke. Do 30 players run around a building site and get in the way of tradesmen. 85% is very good. Obviously just about impossible to get better due to the nature of the game. Even when commentators watch the game on TV one says a decision is wrong and the other says it is right and that is from above the play. Umpires are at ground level and a player can get in the way, they could see it differently to how it is or it can be subjective. Most decisions in the AFL subjective because of the rules. You have a second or two to make up your mind with crowds screaming, which shouldnt matter but obviously can, and because of things in and out of your control you make mistakes. You say players have physical pressure. Can you tell me why a good kick misses goals from 30 metres out dead in front after a mark. No physical pressure there. Surely every player should be above 85% for those kicks. I will guess and say they arent.

I would love some of the whingers on here to one day umpire a game and realise how hard it can be. Obviously I know the umpires have 100's of more hours of practice but at least you would get an idea about umpiring. I know a few dont like Finey on here but he admits he was an umpire basher from way back until he did a few games at our club. Now he at least sees why it is so hard to do even if during a game he continues to have a go at them.

I think the point with this decision is the guessing and expectation of what was done.
It appeared to me the ump had it in for Milne, in that regard at least it looks like he did a very poor job.
He should have the composure not to be sucked in by players.

[plugger66]

85% error rate is totally unacceptable. I work in IT and if we worked at that error rate then we'd still be using pencil & paper for complex calculations.
Imagine the police or doctors working to that figure?
Or even your friendly tradesman...Would you live in a house or drive a car that was only 85% right?

Comparing the umpires error rate to the players efficiency is not relevant.
Players are required to execute gross and fine motor skills with an irregular shaped object in often wet and slippery conditions with a tremendous amount of physical pressure.
Umpires need to look at a situation and decide whether a rule has been broken. It is not that hard! It is infinitely easier than actually playing the game.
What the umpires need to do first and foremost is stop guessing. If they don't see something then say so. 10% of errors would go with that one adjustment.
Then you'd address why the umpires miss free kicks. Are they in the wrong position? Are there blind spots around contests where one of the three can't see? Do we need to add another field umpire and they each control a quadrant? All these questions could be addressed and errors reduced by becoming a professional body and investing in technology training aids to help them.

We simply can't accept a 15% error rate from the rule enforcers.

You arent seriously comparing a job in an office or on a building site to umpiring. Please tell me that is a joke. Do 30 players run around a building site and get in the way of tradesmen. 85% is very good. Obviously just about impossible to get better due to the nature of the game. Even when commentators watch the game on TV one says a decision is wrong and the other says it is right and that is from above the play. Umpires are at ground level and a player can get in the way, they could see it differently to how it is or it can be subjective. Most decisions in the AFL subjective because of the rules. You have a second or two to make up your mind with crowds screaming, which shouldnt matter but obviously can, and because of things in and out of your control you make mistakes. You say players have physical pressure. Can you tell me why a good kick misses goals from 30 metres out dead in front after a mark. No physical pressure there. Surely every player should be above 85% for those kicks. I will guess and say they arent.

I would love some of the whingers on here to one day umpire a game and realise how hard it can be. Obviously I know the umpires have 100's of more hours of practice but at least you would get an idea about umpiring. I know a few dont like Finey on here but he admits he was an umpire basher from way back until he did a few games at our club. Now he at least sees why it is so hard to do even if during a game he continues to have a go at them.

Sorry, P66 but I am serious. 85% is not a good enough target. For a full-time, professional employee an accuracy rate of 85% is not acceptable. And the fact that they're not full-time is the key.

And, for the record, I have umpired. And you should only pay what you can see. Don't guess at a decision. That is when the errors occur. They should be in the best position to see the free kicks...or at least one of them should be.

On the goal kicking comparison...another pointless effort. Typically that footballer has just executed a number of 40m sprints to be in a position to get the ball. He then has to compose himself, line up the goals, have half the crowd booing him and trying to put him off and execute a skill all within 30 seconds.
If you're going to compare like for like then compare the umpire's decision to the player deciding where to run to get the pass in the first place. That is the split second thinking that is akin to blowing the whistle for the free.

So umpires dont get tired and get mentally fatigued. A kick for goal is mental, and little to do with running otherwise why is Jack our most accurate at goals. As for crowd booing well the umpires have 100% of people booing. I dont get this argument at all.

As for being FT Im unsure that will change the % much at all. It will waste money though.

As for guessing, how do you know they do that? Maybe it is a mistake just like a player kicking for goal. And if you think it is guessing i am unsure how being FT helps that at all so again i dont get where you are coming from.

AFL is the hardest game in the world to umpire IMO so keeping the mistakes at around 15% in the lat 10-15 years is a great effort considering how the game is played now compared to even 10 years ago.

[gringo]

So umpires dont get tired and get mentally fatigued. A kick for goal is mental, and little to do with running otherwise why is Jack our most accurate at goals. As for crowd booing well the umpires have 100% of people booing. I dont get this argument at all.

As for being FT Im unsure that will change the % much at all. It will waste money though.

As for guessing, how do you know they do that? Maybe it is a mistake just like a player kicking for goal. And if you think it is guessing i am unsure how being FT helps that at all so again i dont get where you are coming from.

AFL is the hardest game in the world to umpire IMO so keeping the mistakes at around 15% in the lat 10-15 years is a great effort considering how the game is played now compared to even 10 years ago.

Maybe they could make some mistakes the other way during the final quarter. If they made even mistakes it might not feel like they are favouring one side over another and would save plenty of people from whinging all week. You probably need to stop drinking and read the rule book plugger then it becomes clearer.

[plugger66]

So umpires dont get tired and get mentally fatigued. A kick for goal is mental, and little to do with running otherwise why is Jack our most accurate at goals. As for crowd booing well the umpires have 100% of people booing. I dont get this argument at all.

As for being FT Im unsure that will change the % much at all. It will waste money though.

As for guessing, how do you know they do that? Maybe it is a mistake just like a player kicking for goal. And if you think it is guessing i am unsure how being FT helps that at all so again i dont get where you are coming from.

AFL is the hardest game in the world to umpire IMO so keeping the mistakes at around 15% in the lat 10-15 years is a great effort considering how the game is played now compared to even 10 years ago.

Maybe they could make some mistakes the other way during the final quarter. If they made even mistakes it might not feel like they are favouring one side over another and would save plenty of people from whinging all week. You probably need to stop drinking and read the rule book plugger then it becomes clearer.

I have already commented on another thread that what you wrote has nothing to do with what I wrote. You now are officially dumbed down by TTT.

[desertsaint]

You can't have a fully professional sport umpired by part-timers. If you do so you naturally get inferior umpires.
Make it fully professional. pay them a heck of a lot. Part of their job could entail holding clinics for others. Make it a viable and attractive career option. Only by growing the pool of talent will we get the required level of talent. What we have at the moment is simply not good enough.
With professional umpires we can aspire to professional standards, which includes much greater accountability. It would also be an option for many footballers that don't quite make it as fulltime footballers but would love a career in the game.

[Life Long Saint]

AFL is the hardest game in the world to umpire IMO so keeping the mistakes at around 15% in the lat 10-15 years is a great effort considering how the game is played now compared to even 10 years ago.

Staggering that an organisation would be happy with a 15% static error rate over a 15 year period.
They should be striving for continual improvement and not treading water.

[gringo]

So umpires dont get tired and get mentally fatigued. A kick for goal is mental, and little to do with running otherwise why is Jack our most accurate at goals. As for crowd booing well the umpires have 100% of people booing. I dont get this argument at all.

As for being FT Im unsure that will change the % much at all. It will waste money though.

As for guessing, how do you know they do that? Maybe it is a mistake just like a player kicking for goal. And if you think it is guessing i am unsure how being FT helps that at all so again i dont get where you are coming from.

AFL is the hardest game in the world to umpire IMO so keeping the mistakes at around 15% in the lat 10-15 years is a great effort considering how the game is played now compared to even 10 years ago.

Maybe they could make some mistakes the other way during the final quarter. If they made even mistakes it might not feel like they are favouring one side over another and would save plenty of people from whinging all week. You probably need to stop drinking and read the rule book plugger then it becomes clearer.

I have already commented on another thread that what you wrote has nothing to do with what I wrote. You now are officially dumbed down by TTT.

That's a compliment, you obviously mistook me for being smart.