Court case

[plugger66]

Something stinks about this whole thing I reckon Lovett is not guilty and that is based on gut instinct only

the only thing that stinks here is lovett.....blood alcohol reading of over or around 0.15 says it all really......

So if your blood alcohol reading is around 0.15 then you stink. Yep makes as much sense as anyone here believing you know anything about the law.

[The OtherThommo]

no not suggesting st kilda stinks. the case stinks. i reckon gram stinks too

You cannot be serious. The prosecutor led yesterday with Gram being on the balcony with the girl, kissing, and when he realised how drunk she was (e.g.'swaying') he put her on the bed in his room, fully clothed, and retired elsewhere to stack z's, leaving her alone in his room to sleep.

How in the hell does he 'stink'? If that evidence stands up during the case, he should be seen as a fella who did the right thing, did what any decent bloke would do.

'Stinks'? FFS.

[Dan Warna]

22 years ago i dated a lovely girl who, during her house warming party got a bit drunk and went to sleep early while many of us sat on the roof drinking beers.

A few minutes later we heard a loud scream.

another guy had got into her bed and she assumed it was me. Now the lights were off and pretty much it was obvious that the door was closed because I kissed her goodnight and said I'd be there later.

Violence was committed against the guy, my GF at the time was very distraught. I can't comment on her feelings but she was sobbing, distressed and I think disgusted. I felt anger and violence towards the guy and protective and consoling to my GF at the time.

Sex is fun, but has to be consensual. Just because a girl is willing to have sex with one guy does not mean she is consensual with another guy.

Now I am making NO input into this conversation regarding the guilt or innocence of the footballer in question. I am just retelling a story from my youth.

[Con Gorozidis]

I think he is in trouble.

[MC Gusto]

Something stinks about this whole thing I reckon Lovett is not guilty and that is based on gut instinct only

the only thing that stinks here is lovett.....blood alcohol reading of over or around 0.15 says it all really......

So if your blood alcohol reading is around 0.15 then you stink. Yep makes as much sense as anyone here believing you know anything about the law.

My comments are not about the law they are about the case and the evidence presented. It stinks. The players never wanted him there

[Old Mate]

A small percentage get convicted for rape. It's a tough charge to prove especially in this case. My guess is he will get off scott free. Gotta prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

[Johnny Member]

I think he is in trouble.

I have no clue about the law, and don't pretend to, but...

Isn't he only in trouble if he knew that she knew it wasn't him?

ie. he's allowed to have a try, and if she allows it, he's allowed to proceed. As long as he has no idea the only reason she's allowing it is because she thinks it's someone else?

To simplify - did Lovett know she thought he was Gram? If not, if he just thought he'd got lucky and she was up for it, then as horrible as the whole situation is, I don't think he can be found guilty can he?

[Eastern]

Steady Up Folks. It's only the 2nd day of a trial that is scheduled to run for 2.5 weeks. I'd think that there is a whole lot more to come out in this case !!

[St Michele]

I've heard it starts Monday. 5 players, Gram, Fisher, Blake, Schnider & McQualter + a Saints official, I think.

Thanks !
I just hope it won't effect them too much on game day seeing they may miss training !

I suppose Lovett could always do the right thing by everyone involved (including the Saints) and simply plead guilty.
:sarcasm:

But what if he is not guilty ?? He sohuld plead whatever he feels he has the best chance of winning. In reality whilst I love the Saints I would hate to think an innocent man was convicted because he felt it would make it easier

[Dr Spaceman]

I've heard it starts Monday.  5 players, Gram, Fisher, Blake, Schnider & McQualter + a Saints official, I think.

 Thanks ! 
 I just hope it won't effect them too much on game day seeing  they may miss training !

I suppose Lovett could always do the right thing by everyone involved (including the Saints) and simply plead guilty.
:sarcasm:

But what if he is not guilty ?? He sohuld plead whatever he feels he has the best chance of winning. In reality whilst I love the Saints I would hate to think an innocent man was convicted because he felt it would make it easier

Well clearly my :sarcasm: post was based on the premise that he is guilty and would be able to save everyone a lot of grief by putting his hand up.

I was never suggesting he plead guilty to something he never did.

[starsign]

I think he is in trouble.

I have no clue about the law, and don't pretend to, but...

Isn't he only in trouble if he knew that she knew it wasn't him?

ie. he's allowed to have a try, and if she allows it, he's allowed to proceed. As long as he has no idea the only reason she's allowing it is because she thinks it's someone else?

To simplify - did Lovett know she thought he was Gram? If not, if he just thought he'd got lucky and she was up for it, then as horrible as the whole situation is, I don't think he can be found guilty can he?

Woa!
hang on ... He's not allowed to "have a try" as u put it if she's out to it and hasn't consented no matter what ...in my limited knowledge of the law
And being well intoxicated himself is never an accepted excuse

[Enrico_Misso]

Question?

1) Apparently the judge has allowed possible StKilda witnesses 90 minutes notice before they have to appear.
That will allow them to continue training etc. rather than just hanging around while the legal gasbags boost their earnings.

2) The case is expected to go 2-3 weeks

3) We play the GC B@stards on Sat July 30th.
So presumably we will fly up to Brisbane on Friday 29th.

What happens if the case is still going on?
Do we have to send the players up on Friday night disrupting our preparations because of this filthy rapist?

[I Love Peter Kiel]

I'm not a legal expert. Sounds like she had consensual sex, thinking Lovett was Grammy. That's mistaken identity. Nevertheless he shouldn't have done it. But if she was into it, how would he know she thought he was someone else?
These questions could determine whether Lovett goes to jail or not.

[skeptic]

I'm not a legal expert. Sounds like she had consensual sex, thinking Lovett was Grammy. That's mistaken identity. Nevertheless he shouldn't have done it. But if she was into it, how would he know she thought he was someone else?
These questions could determine whether Lovett goes to jail or not.

Did he stop when she said so?

Could she actually have consented?

I don't know if he'll actually be found guilty

My own personal opinion is that he's clearly done the wrong thing and he knew it at the time

[GrumpyOne]

Question?

1) Apparently the judge has allowed possible StKilda witnesses 90 minutes notice before they have to appear.
That will allow them to continue training etc. rather than just hanging around while the legal gasbags boost their earnings.

2) The case is expected to go 2-3 weeks

3) We play the GC B@stards on Sat July 30th.
So presumably we will fly up to Brisbane on Friday 29th.

What happens if the case is still going on?
Do we have to send the players up on Friday night disrupting our preparations because of this filthy rapist?

Alleged Enrico, and football is only a game, its not above the law.

[St Lenny]

I'm not a legal expert. Sounds like she had consensual sex, thinking Lovett was Grammy. That's mistaken identity. Nevertheless he shouldn't have done it. But if she was into it, how would he know she thought he was someone else?
These questions could determine whether Lovett goes to jail or not.

Did he stop when she said so?

Could she actually have consented?

I don't know if he'll actually be found guilty

My own personal opinion is that he's clearly done the wrong thing and he knew it at the time

What the hell was he doing in there trying to have it on with Grammy's girl, at what stage does he take responsibility and wasn't there 2 charges.

[amusingname]

2 Charges- 1 being digital rape

It sounds like his defense is that she consented because she was under the impression it was Gram and Lovett could not have known that this was the case until after the incident. The major issue would be if she withdrew her consent during the act and he continued, knowing that she was not consenting to sex with him. As there were no others in the room, other posters are correct in that at that point it gets into the 'he said/she said' territory.

[mbogo]

So it would seem that the act in question falls somewhere between "an absolute c***act" - assuming that AL knew the girl probably "only" wanted Gram - to the alleged rape.
Either way, without any other information, I can see why Jason and the others might have become a little agitated by all of this.
Nothing to do with the case but ...
My bet would be that similar events occur every Sat or Fri night across our fair city. A couple of weeks ago I was a bit concerned for a young woman - in her 20s who was being physically carried from a dance venue by two guys in their 30s-40s, I reckon, coz she was so spastic drunk. Then I heard that she could describe her coat and knew at least one of the guys and seemed "reasonably affectionate" towards them. But I was pretty amazed that the bouncers showed zero interest - like it happened every few minutes or something. Was she able to consent being like 0.15% - I don't know ? Equally I do not know the guys were not "gentlemen". It was weird. Young girls are apparently getting more drunk these days than in previous years due to the cocktails and stuff.

[markp]

The major issue would be if she withdrew her consent during the act and he continued, knowing that she was not consenting to sex with him. As there were no others in the room, other posters are correct in that at that point it gets into the 'he said/she said' territory.

I think the major issue will be how drunk she was and appeared to be beforehand (capable of consent), and how she reacted and appeared to all those present immediately afterwards.

[Zac Attack]

I'm not a legal expert. Sounds like she had consensual sex, thinking Lovett was Grammy. That's mistaken identity. Nevertheless he shouldn't have done it. But if she was into it, how would he know she thought he was someone else?
These questions could determine whether Lovett goes to jail or not.

Did he stop when she said so?

Could she actually have consented?

I don't know if he'll actually be found guilty

My own personal opinion is that he's clearly done the wrong thing and he knew it at the time

How do you know anyone said stop?

What happens if it a complete botch and Lovett went into the room to rest/drunken headspin and the woman then lay next to him thinking it was Gram and hopped on?

It could just be a really really really big botch/misunderstanding.

[markp]

So it would seem that the act in question falls somewhere between "an absolute c***act" - assuming that AL knew the girl probably "only" wanted Gram - to the alleged rape.
Either way, without any other information, I can see why Jason and the others might have become a little agitated by all of this.
Nothing to do with the case but ...
My bet would be that similar events occur every Sat or Fri night across our fair city. A couple of weeks ago I was a bit concerned for a young woman - in her 20s who was being physically carried from a dance venue by two guys in their 30s-40s, I reckon, coz she was so spastic drunk. Then I heard that she could describe her coat and knew at least one of the guys and seemed "reasonably affectionate" towards them. But I was pretty amazed that the bouncers showed zero interest - like it happened every few minutes or something. Was she able to consent being like 0.15% - I don't know ? Equally I do not know the guys were not "gentlemen". It was weird. Young girls are apparently getting more drunk these days than in previous years due to the cocktails and stuff.

I've seen similar things... you've had a few yourself, but think "should I do/say something?" and turn around and they're gone... had friends be confronted when trying to get their girlfriends home too, and it can lead to agro... you need to keep your wits about you out there, chicks especially.

[amusingname]

The major issue would be if she withdrew her consent during the act and he continued, knowing that she was not consenting to sex with him. As there were no others in the room, other posters are correct in that at that point it gets into the 'he said/she said' territory.

I think the major issue will be how drunk she was and appeared to be beforehand (capable of consent), and how she reacted and appeared to all those present immediately afterwards.

True, the prosecution will be focusing on whether she was capable to consent.

[Saints Angel]

[quote="stkildathunda"][quote="Ralphy"]What gets me every time with 7 news is they regard him as ''ex stkilda player and ex essendon player''
no it should be really Ex Essendon Player then ex stkilda Recruit, he never pulled on our jumper nor did he EVER play for us![/quote]

SEN were describing him as that today which was refreshing to hear.[/quote]

Spot on. I get annoyed with the reference to Lovett being a St. KIlda player. The way you have put it is correct. Another chance for the media to blacken St. Kilda's name.

[Dr Spaceman]

What gets me every time with 7 news is they regard him as ''ex stkilda player and ex essendon player''
no it should be really Ex Essendon Player then ex stkilda Recruit, he never pulled on our jumper nor did he EVER play for us!

SEN were describing him as that today which was refreshing to hear.

Spot on. I get annoyed with the reference to Lovett being a St. KIlda player. The way you have put it is correct. Another chance for the media to blacken St. Kilda's name.

In the 1992 AFL Draft, Tim Watson was recruited by the West Coast Eagles.

He never played a game for them.

Has anyone ever heard Watson referred to as an "ex West Coast player"?

[Zac Attack]

What gets me every time with 7 news is they regard him as ''ex stkilda player and ex essendon player''
no it should be really Ex Essendon Player then ex stkilda Recruit, he never pulled on our jumper nor did he EVER play for us!

SEN were describing him as that today which was refreshing to hear.

Spot on. I get annoyed with the reference to Lovett being a St. KIlda player. The way you have put it is correct. Another chance for the media to blacken St. Kilda's name.

In the 1992 AFL Draft, Tim Watson was recruited by the West Coast Eagles.

He never played a game for them.

Has anyone ever heard Watson referred to as an "ex West Coast player"?

Tim Watson was never charged with rape either and the circumstances are completely different.