Saints' Worst Nightmare

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degruch
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Post: # 883354Post degruch »

plugger66 wrote:
degruch wrote:
plugger66 wrote:
matrix wrote:with respect...
if he was sacked due to a rape charge the club would have said so
They couldnt and wouldnt.
The same reason why he wasn't sacked because of the rape charge then? Officially he was sacked due to his poor behaviour and failure to meet training milestones...I'm sure they didn't just make that up. Read between the lines all you want.
Another tooth fairy man. He was out of the club on the 23rd of December. What happened that night?
Yeah plugger...the club's gonna jump the gun and announce AL is a rapist before the police have even pressed charges. :roll:


plugger66
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Post: # 883357Post plugger66 »

degruch wrote:
plugger66 wrote:
degruch wrote:
plugger66 wrote:
matrix wrote:with respect...
if he was sacked due to a rape charge the club would have said so
They couldnt and wouldnt.
The same reason why he wasn't sacked because of the rape charge then? Officially he was sacked due to his poor behaviour and failure to meet training milestones...I'm sure they didn't just make that up. Read between the lines all you want.
Another tooth fairy man. He was out of the club on the 23rd of December. What happened that night?
Yeah plugger...the club's gonna jump the gun and announce AL is a rapist before the police have even pressed charges. :roll:
But you just told me he sacked for other reasons so why couldnt they do that 4 weeks ago. You need to make up your mind.


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degruch
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Post: # 883360Post degruch »

plugger66 wrote:
degruch wrote:
plugger66 wrote:
degruch wrote:
plugger66 wrote:
matrix wrote:with respect...
if he was sacked due to a rape charge the club would have said so
They couldnt and wouldnt.
The same reason why he wasn't sacked because of the rape charge then? Officially he was sacked due to his poor behaviour and failure to meet training milestones...I'm sure they didn't just make that up. Read between the lines all you want.
Another tooth fairy man. He was out of the club on the 23rd of December. What happened that night?
Yeah plugger...the club's gonna jump the gun and announce AL is a rapist before the police have even pressed charges. :roll:
But you just told me he sacked for other reasons so why couldnt they do that 4 weeks ago. You need to make up your mind.
You've obviously drunk your sarcasm receptors into unconciousness. Couldn't you have held off until tonights game to get on the sauce?


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markp
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Post: # 883361Post markp »

There's a game on tonight??


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matrix
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Post: # 883362Post matrix »

of friggin course its 'not' the reason
verbally it is
non verbally its not

so whatever the club has said, that is why they sacked him.

the dates are just a coincidence :twisted:


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degruch
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Post: # 883363Post degruch »

markp wrote:There's a game on tonight??
Winter Olympics...poofs v Eddie


plugger66
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Post: # 883365Post plugger66 »

degruch wrote:
plugger66 wrote:
degruch wrote:
plugger66 wrote:
degruch wrote:
plugger66 wrote:
matrix wrote:with respect...
if he was sacked due to a rape charge the club would have said so
They couldnt and wouldnt.
The same reason why he wasn't sacked because of the rape charge then? Officially he was sacked due to his poor behaviour and failure to meet training milestones...I'm sure they didn't just make that up. Read between the lines all you want.
Another tooth fairy man. He was out of the club on the 23rd of December. What happened that night?
Yeah plugger...the club's gonna jump the gun and announce AL is a rapist before the police have even pressed charges. :roll:
But you just told me he sacked for other reasons so why couldnt they do that 4 weeks ago. You need to make up your mind.
You've obviously drunk your sarcasm receptors into unconciousness. Couldn't you have held off until tonights game to get on the sauce?
No sarcasim. Just didnt understand your response after you told me he was sacked for other reasons.


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Post: # 883372Post loris »

Con Gorozidis wrote:i just want to know where the 2 mil comes from and what rooey has got to do with the price of fresh prawns in belize?
Don't think the prawns would be too fresh in Belize these days Con....too much greedy tourism development happening there and they will need the $2mill to undo the environmental damage that follows untrammelled and inappropriate tourism development :wink: :wink:


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Post: # 883374Post The Craw »

plugger66 wrote:
The Craw wrote:
plugger66 wrote:Firstly he was sacked because a the rape charge.
No he wasn't. He was sacked because he broke his contract. He was gone regardless, charged or not charged.

What happened on that night and the subsequent events following, in addition to the numerous misdemeanors before that, culminated in his sacking.

Even if he is cleared of charges, it won't change anything....he...broke ...his...contract.

End of storey.

He was not sacked until after charges were laid / not laid as it would have been deemed as prejudicial to the investigation and subsequent hearing if in fact he was charged. Which as we all know now that he has now been charged?

How you can argue that sacking him after the charges have been laid is beyond me.

St Kilda has categorically stated that his termination was in relation to Lovett not meeting contractual obligations.

Why do you think Lovett’s lawyers have gone the bullying angle?

That is the only avenue they have to try and get a monitory settlement.
How much money has the tooth fairy given you over the years. Why would sacking a player effect a criminal court case? He was sacked because of the rape charge. All the other things were incidental. he havent even trained with us for 8 weeks so how did he break any rules in that time. The club have rightly said there were other reasons as well as the incident on 24 December.
Ok this is the last time I will explain it to you junior….. Firstly he was excluded from training after the 24th December, which was his last infringement, added to the other misdemeanors before this date, culminated in his sacking.


The police advised that they were investigating an alleged sexual assault. Therefore, if St Kilda acted immediately after that indiscretion, give or take a few days as it was over the Christmas break, it could have been construed, at trial, as an assumption of guilt from the St Kilda football club even before the case had gone to trial. Lawyers acting on behalf of Lovett could have used this as a trial by media and a presumption of guilt, thus not giving Lovett the normal course of rightful justice.

Between the date the allegation was raised until the date Lovett was formally charged, nothing had be said by anyone except for St Kilda standing him down indefinitely and being excluded from training with the playing group with full pay.

So as soon as charges were laid, and even if they were not, St Kilda rightfully declared its hand in relation to its stance on Lovett.

There is now way Lovett’s lawyers can argue that Lovett will not receive a fair trial. And rightly so. Natural justice hopefully will take its course.In addition there has been a legal document submitted and conveniently leaked stating thus.

So I really do not know what else is needed.

Maybe give Patrick Smith a call and see what he thinks.


Not Craw, CRAW!
plugger66
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Post: # 883378Post plugger66 »

The Craw wrote:
plugger66 wrote:
The Craw wrote:
plugger66 wrote:Firstly he was sacked because a the rape charge.
No he wasn't. He was sacked because he broke his contract. He was gone regardless, charged or not charged.

What happened on that night and the subsequent events following, in addition to the numerous misdemeanors before that, culminated in his sacking.

Even if he is cleared of charges, it won't change anything....he...broke ...his...contract.

End of storey.

He was not sacked until after charges were laid / not laid as it would have been deemed as prejudicial to the investigation and subsequent hearing if in fact he was charged. Which as we all know now that he has now been charged?

How you can argue that sacking him after the charges have been laid is beyond me.

St Kilda has categorically stated that his termination was in relation to Lovett not meeting contractual obligations.

Why do you think Lovett’s lawyers have gone the bullying angle?

That is the only avenue they have to try and get a monitory settlement.
How much money has the tooth fairy given you over the years. Why would sacking a player effect a criminal court case? He was sacked because of the rape charge. All the other things were incidental. he havent even trained with us for 8 weeks so how did he break any rules in that time. The club have rightly said there were other reasons as well as the incident on 24 December.
Ok this is the last time I will explain it to you junior….. Firstly he was excluded from training after the 24th December, which was his last infringement, added to the other misdemeanors before this date, culminated in his sacking.


The police advised that they were investigating an alleged sexual assault. Therefore, if St Kilda acted immediately after that indiscretion, give or take a few days as it was over the Christmas break, it could have been construed, at trial, as an assumption of guilt from the St Kilda football club even before the case had gone to trial. Lawyers acting on behalf of Lovett could have used this as a trial by media and a presumption of guilt, thus not giving Lovett the normal course of rightful justice.

Between the date the allegation was raised until the date Lovett was formally charged, nothing had be said by anyone except for St Kilda standing him down indefinitely and being excluded from training with the playing group with full pay.

So as soon as charges were laid, and even if they were not, St Kilda rightfully declared its hand in relation to its stance on Lovett.

There is now way Lovett’s lawyers can argue that Lovett will not receive a fair trial. And rightly so. Natural justice hopefully will take its course.In addition there has been a legal document submitted and conveniently leaked stating thus.

So I really do not know what else is needed.

Maybe give Patrick Smith a call and see what he thinks.
Thanks for the explanation. Just one question, if he sacked for things other than the rape charge how does that influence a trial. So you see you are argueing against yourself but i suppose you would expect that from an old man. I have no idea of your age but as you called me junior and i am nearly 50 I take it your an old man and they do say age effects the brain.


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Post: # 883380Post matrix »

Image


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degruch
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Post: # 883381Post degruch »

Drink posting...it's bad for your health kids.


plugger66
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Post: # 883383Post plugger66 »

degruch wrote:Drink posting...it's bad for your health kids.
Is that you in the photo. If it is maybe you better get your Dad so I can explain things to him.


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degruch
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Post: # 883384Post degruch »

plugger66 wrote:
degruch wrote:Drink posting...it's bad for your health kids.
Is that you in the photo. If it is maybe you better get your Dad so I can explain things to him.
That's him standing behind me...explain away!

I'd rather have Stinger representing me in court than you.

Judge: "How do you plead to the charge of jaywalking"
Plugger QC: "Your Honour, my client is innocent, he's done a fair bit of raping in his time, but he has never jaywalked"


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Post: # 883388Post plugger66 »

degruch wrote:
plugger66 wrote:
degruch wrote:Drink posting...it's bad for your health kids.
Is that you in the photo. If it is maybe you better get your Dad so I can explain things to him.
That's him standing behind me...explain away!

I'd rather have Stinger representing me in court than you.

Judge: "How do you plead to the charge of jaywalking"
Plugger QC: "Your Honour, my client is innocent, he's done a fair bit of raping in his time, but he has never jaywalked"
I wouldnt represent you in court. i dont do the childrens court.


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matrix
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Post: # 883391Post matrix »

Image

god damn ive gone thru 3 bags of the microwavable stuff
its not even game time :shock:


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Post: # 883393Post markp »

Hypothetically, if after Lovett's poor start, he had just been out late, arrested for being drunk and perhaps a minor assault on December 24, you'd still expect he'd be dumped.


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degruch
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Post: # 883395Post degruch »

plugger66 wrote:
degruch wrote:
plugger66 wrote:
degruch wrote:Drink posting...it's bad for your health kids.
Is that you in the photo. If it is maybe you better get your Dad so I can explain things to him.
That's him standing behind me...explain away!

I'd rather have Stinger representing me in court than you.

Judge: "How do you plead to the charge of jaywalking"
Plugger QC: "Your Honour, my client is innocent, he's done a fair bit of raping in his time, but he has never jaywalked"
I wouldnt represent you in court. i dont do the childrens court.
Punching above your mental weight, I guess.


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Post: # 883401Post markp »

Is there a children's court??

I'm picturing a Bugsy Malone type of thing....


GrumpyOne

Post: # 883403Post GrumpyOne »

markp wrote:Hypothetically, if after Lovett's poor start, he had just been out late, arrested for being drunk and perhaps a minor assault on December 24, you'd still expect he'd be dumped.
Not when a first round draft pick was given up for him. Would have employed a minder and persevered.


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Post: # 883406Post Mr Magic »

GrumpyOne wrote:
markp wrote:Hypothetically, if after Lovett's poor start, he had just been out late, arrested for being drunk and perhaps a minor assault on December 24, you'd still expect he'd be dumped.
Not when a first round draft pick was given up for him. Would have employed a minder and persevered.
So grumps, your issue is that we shouldn't have sacked him because we gave up pick 16 for him?

Notwithstanding anything he may/may not have done?

His cost to us was 'so high' we should just perservere with him?

If instead of 'misbehaving' he had severely broken his leg at a training accident and been forced to retire, what would you be saying?
Damn St Kilda on wasting a pick on someone who couldn't stay on the park?

Are you upset because of the high pick wasted on him?


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degruch
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Post: # 883407Post degruch »

Mr Magic wrote:
GrumpyOne wrote:
markp wrote:Hypothetically, if after Lovett's poor start, he had just been out late, arrested for being drunk and perhaps a minor assault on December 24, you'd still expect he'd be dumped.
Not when a first round draft pick was given up for him. Would have employed a minder and persevered.
So grumps, your issue is that we shouldn't have sacked him because we gave up pick 16 for him?

Notwithstanding anything he may/may not have done?

His cost to us was 'so high' we should just perservere with him?

If instead of 'misbehaving' he had severely broken his leg at a training accident and been forced to retire, what would you be saying?
Damn St Kilda on wasting a pick on someone who couldn't stay on the park?

Are you upset because of the high pick wasted on him?
Bring back Michael Frost!


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Post: # 883413Post Finna »

Crazy. Not gonna happen regardless of the court's outcome.


GrumpyOne

Post: # 883414Post GrumpyOne »

Mr Magic wrote:
GrumpyOne wrote:
markp wrote:Hypothetically, if after Lovett's poor start, he had just been out late, arrested for being drunk and perhaps a minor assault on December 24, you'd still expect he'd be dumped.
Not when a first round draft pick was given up for him. Would have employed a minder and persevered.
So grumps, your issue is that we shouldn't have sacked him because we gave up pick 16 for him?

Notwithstanding anything he may/may not have done?

His cost to us was 'so high' we should just perservere with him?

If instead of 'misbehaving' he had severely broken his leg at a training accident and been forced to retire, what would you be saying?
Damn St Kilda on wasting a pick on someone who couldn't stay on the park?

Are you upset because of the high pick wasted on him?
I think the sacking was premature anyway. Other options I laid out in the OP were available and more sensible.

If he were a kid from the bush we'd picked up with a first round draft pick, and had some troubles, we would have done it for him.

We could have won a premiership with him in the team. We would have beaten Geelong last year if he was playing for us.

And I am upset that we have got nothing for two first round draft picks, him and Ball.


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Post: # 883415Post Grimfang »

GrumpyOne wrote: The Club's actions leave me to believe that they have far better than a fair hand, but they are gambling a lot.

My point is that sacking Lovett was a step too far that need not have been made at this point in time. No harm would have been done to exile him to Sandy to train and play. Given his apparent penchant for self-destruction, it wouldn't be long till we had multiple visible reasons to pull the plug on him.

That would have been the safer option. Sacking him now is just putting out a sign saying "Sue Me Now!".
You don't think the club sponsors were putting any pressure on? I'm sure they were thrilled to have their brands associated with him. How would you feel if we'd hung onto that dropkick and lost a swathe of sponsors as a result?


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