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[asiu]

Then you have to accept that as an argument for GT too - Hamil, Penny, Brooks

Black heading home (?) to Freo (?) didn't help the bigger picture much
nor Penny 'n Maguire

[shanegrambeau]

I agree with a lot of what has been said above, especially DB and Scollop.

I disagree with that,

There is a myth that Ross Lyon took a bunch of losers to a GF.

Nobody thought RL took on a bunch of losers or 'losery' as stated IMO. In fact, there was a serious disappointment in '07, because there was a sense that we had wasted a golden chance due to our great lineup, who had been pretty gunned up and ready to fight by GT.

I missed Hamill in his prime. No doubt an inspiration to the younger fellas, I just didn't see him as a consistent champ. I saw him injured, back for four weeks, snagging 3 or 4 goals here and there, and then back onto the long-term injury list. Later, I did check-up and found he did have some good seasons early on in GT's tenure before the Saints really rose.

[Sanctorum]

Rod Butterss was president of St Kilda FC during GT's time as senior coach.

They were great mates (GT had lobbied hard in 2000 to get Butterss elected president) and had persuaded Malcolm Blight to take over from Tim Watson in a coup that was wildly celebrated.

GT at that stage was director of football. When after round 15 in 2001 the Saints had only won 3 games and sat 3 spots from bottom of the ladder it was decided to tear up Blight's million dollar contract, and GT took over as caretaker coach for the remainder of the season.

I haven't read the inside story of this saga, but not surprisingly given his strong personality and passion for the club, GT became head coach in 2002.

At the time I felt the close bond between Butterss and Thomas in these key positions at the club was unhealthy, but not unusual in clubland.

In his first year (2002) at the helm, GT led the team to 7 wins but given the youth of the list that was probably reasonable. In 2003 the team won 11 games and finished 11th, subsequently in 2004/5/6 they played finals.

After St Kilda were knocked out of the 2006 elimination final by Melbourne, the Board sensationally sacked GT - quite unexpected really as most of us had considered he had done a reasonable job.

I don't know if it is unrelated, I expect it is, but in the meantime the friendship between Butterss and Thomas hit the rocks hard and exploded in the media in 2007, over a million dollar loan from Butterss company to GT. The gory details of this affair can be found on Google.

I'm not going to debate the pros and cons of GT as senior coach, it's been done to death on this forum - what I would say is that GT, notwithstanding his passion for our club, is extremely opinionated and polarising. He's hardly Robinson Crusoe!

[saynta]

"I'm not going to debate the pros and cons of GT as senior coach, it's been done to death on this forum - what I would say is that GT, notwithstanding his passion for our club, is extremely opinionated and polarising. He's hardly Robinson Crusoe!"


Just like some of his harshest critics. Not at all surprising.

[Teflon]

Lyon has the right team to go with his game plan. This must not be overlooked.
This probably wasn't the case in his final 4 years at Freo (hence the 30% w/l??).
Did they have as many runners back then (specifically endurance runners with leg speed) and was their defence as reliable as ours, I'm wondering?

One of the first things that Lyon noticed and mentioned when he arrived (and that he was obviously excited about) was that we were a "running team" (referring to our leg speed and abundance of endurance runners, I presume).

He needed the right team to go along with his game plan. And he found the right fit.

My thesis is his game plan (which is working brilliantly for us, right now) would not work everywhere and at all times.

So now it’s “the list is right for the coach”
Previous times it was just “list list list…coach doesn’t matter”
The reed that bends….you’ll never be wrong I guess with that approach

[Teflon]

I agree with a lot of what has been said above, especially DB and Scollop.

I disagree with that,

There is a myth that Ross Lyon took a bunch of losers to a GF.

Nobody thought RL took on a bunch of losers or 'losery' as stated IMO. In fact, there was a serious disappointment in '07, because there was a sense that we had wasted a golden chance due to our great lineup, who had been pretty gunned up and ready to fight by GT.

I missed Hamill in his prime. No doubt an inspiration to the younger fellas, I just didn't see him as a consistent champ. I saw him injured, back for four weeks, snagging 3 or 4 goals here and there, and then back onto the long-term injury list. Later, I did check-up and found he did have some good seasons early on in GT's tenure before the Saints really rose.

And everyone conveniently ignores the FACT that Thomas did sweet FA to address our injuries- he played players in finals injured. Dumb
Lyon came in and straightened that up with Misson immediately
I bet Lyon woulda killed to have Gehrig Hamil Hudgton and Harvey still at peak of their powers like Thomas had …

[Teflon]

23 posts, 8 from Teflon.

It seems he doesn't like GT. Threads like this are like krill for a hungry whale, such in eveything and blow what you don't want out.

1 post from blowhard Trevor.
I know who the whale is.
Krill sandwich??

Make that 9.

Centre of attention.

And Zero from Trevor talking footy
Slow news day in the bush Trevor?
Grab another can head out the shed she’ll be right mate

[B.M]

What was GT going to do about

Goose’s broken leg
Roo’s Broken Collarbone
Watts broken ankle
Hayes ACL
Hamill torn cartilage
Penny - degenerative hip
Brooks ACL
Kosi - Concussion/Torn quad/Bulging disc

Should I keep going??

Coaches don’t control injuries

Otherwise it’d be Lyons fault we have 14 injured right now

Injuries come down to luck really in AFL - it’s a ballistic, contact, 360 degree sport
Impact and chronic injuries occur to all elite athletes
Is it L

[Teflon]

What was GT going to do about

Goose’s broken leg
Roo’s Broken Collarbone
Watts broken ankle
Hayes ACL
Hamill torn cartilage
Penny - degenerative hip
Brooks ACL
Kosi - Concussion/Torn quad/Bulging disc

Should I keep going??

Coaches don’t control injuries

Otherwise it’d be Lyons fault we have 14 injured right now

Injuries come down to luck really in AFL - it’s a ballistic, contact, 360 degree sport
Impact and chronic injuries occur to all elite athletes
Is it L

Oh so now ALL our injury worries under Thomas were collision solely????
This narrative re-write gets better by the minute
How about the spate of soft tissue injuries such as Harvey’s hammies ?? Or flogging a young Ball while he had OP???
Try again
FACT he did not invest at all in improving our sports science/injury management and the twit paid the price
Too much focus on “moulding young men in his image” and not enough about running an elite football club (thought it was Warrnambool the fwit)
When HE ran the the joint

[B.M]

f*** me dead that is s***!

Harvey had his soft tissue injuries 99-2002 before GT was coach

This whole GT autonomously ran the club was bulls***

Although he did do contracts (so we didn’t have to hire a LM)
He had zero input into recruiting
Zero input into fitness

He put his trust into JB and ‘training services’ which is just what they call ‘medical and high performance’ nowadays’

Injuries cannot really be controlled - in elite sport - they are part and parcel!

I mean WTF has the senior coach got to do with injuries????

Otherwise Misson should be sacked right now - because after the pre season - before we kicked a ball in anger - we had the WORST injury list in the AFL!

[Teflon]

f*** me dead that is s***!

Harvey had his soft tissue injuries 99-2002 before GT was coach

This whole GT autonomously ran the club was bulls***

Although he did do contracts (so we didn’t have to hire a LM)
He had zero input into recruiting
Zero input into fitness

He put his trust into JB and ‘training services’ which is just what they call ‘medical and high performance’ nowadays’

Injuries cannot really be controlled - in elite sport - they are part and parcel!

I mean WTF has the senior coach got to do with injuries????

Otherwise Misson should be sacked right now - because after the pre season - before we kicked a ball in anger - we had the WORST injury list in the AFL!

Up there with THE most dumbest, inane, illogical drivel ever posted on SS (you’re also in the running for 2nd and 3rd too so hang in there )
WHAT Senior AFL coach came in after your love child Grant and DEMANDED we get serious on our sports injuries by bringing the best in with Dave Misson??????

Now tell us all how Ross THE COACH had nothing to do with that and directly improving our injury rates????????????

And to suggest Thomas didn’t run the joint is just more revisionist BS - completely at odds with people at the club during that time I’ve spoken too

Spare us all your rubbish.

[B.M]

Is Ross to blame for our current injury list?!

[B.M]

You have no idea about how a footy club is run, and what the different roles are????

Your lack of footy knowledge is astounding

[saynta]

You have no idea about how a footy club is run, and what the different roles are????

Your lack of footy knowledge is astounding

Spot on mate and his hatred of Grant is mind boggling if not slanderous.

I would love to see the key board warrior repeated his crap to Ross's face.

He wouldn't have the guts.

[Teflon]

You have no idea about how a footy club is run, and what the different roles are????

Your lack of footy knowledge is astounding

Spot on mate and his hatred of Grant is mind boggling if not slanderous.

I would love to see the key board warrior repeated his crap to Ross's face.

He wouldn't have the guts.

To Ross’s face ???
WTF have I said I couldn’t say to Ross’s face ?
You really are stupid
Again stalking me, instigating it and will then bistch to mids squealing like a pig when you get a bit back
3rd time - stop quoting or referring to me in your posts
Youre rambling

[Teflon]

You have no idea about how a footy club is run, and what the different roles are????

Your lack of footy knowledge is astounding

What’s that got to do with anything????
You said a senior coach has nothing to do with injuries referring to Grant had “no control” over that situation as coach
I post FACTS that the next coach in (Lyon) came in and immediately directly fixed that by bringing in Misson?????

Now you’re saying it’s about who knows more about roles in a footy club?

WTF

[saynta]

You have no idea about how a footy club is run, and what the different roles are????

Your lack of footy knowledge is astounding

Spot on mate and his hatred of Grant is mind boggling if not slanderous.

I would love to see the key board warrior repeated his crap to Ross's face.

He wouldn't have the guts.

To Ross’s face ???
WTF have I said I couldn’t say to Ross’s face ?
You really are stupid
Again stalking me, instigating it and will then bistch to mids squealing like a pig when you get a bit back
3rd time - stop quoting or referring to me in your posts
Youre rambling

I meant Ross, the current coach. Grant would simply punch your lights out.

Keep it up. I am sure the MODS appreciate you.

Stalking you? You must be joking.

And what the f*** is bistch? Did you advance past primary school?

[Teflon]

You have no idea about how a footy club is run, and what the different roles are????

Your lack of footy knowledge is astounding

Spot on mate and his hatred of Grant is mind boggling if not slanderous.

I would love to see the key board warrior repeated his crap to Ross's face.

He wouldn't have the guts.

To Ross’s face ???
WTF have I said I couldn’t say to Ross’s face ?
You really are stupid
Again stalking me, instigating it and will then bistch to mids squealing like a pig when you get a bit back
3rd time - stop quoting or referring to me in your posts
Youre rambling

I meant Ross, the current coach. Grant would simply punch your lights out.

Keep it up. I am sure the MODS appreciate you.

Stalking you? You must be joking.

And what the f*** is bistch? Did you advance past primary school?

STILL GOING after I’ve asked you repeatedly to stop???
I think a holiday is in order
And now you want me to fight Grant Thomas????
Just bizarre from a legal expert

[saynta]

Oh go away and stop trying to have the last word. Very childish but only to be expected from you. Par for the course.

Why are you such an angry little person. What, nobody loves you? Understandable of course.

You have been stalking me for over a decade. Pretty boring really.

[B.M]

You make big statements - of which most are incorrect

Then you’re going to get called out

[skeptic]

I never understood this logic of would you say it to the coach’s face argument that goes on here from time to time.

What’s really being asked?

If RL came to my house for dinner and to talk footy… 100% I’d raise my past and emerging concerns in a respectful manner and hang on his every word in response.

I imagine Teflon would be the same with GT.

But the way the question is asked…
It’s not like I’m going to go down to Moorabbin and scream over the fence during training “what’s up with Cordy… you overrate role players” while they’re doing drills. It would come across as soooo deranged.

It’s why we post on SS… you know, share opinions in the appropriate forum.
Sometimes I think ppl here must have such an over inflated sense of the value of their opinions. It’s literally the online version of fans sitting in a bar talking football… it all means nothing.

Back on topic… I ask this as a genuine question rather than weighing into this injury thing.

When Footy First came in… wasn’t the push that the Butters regimen completely gutted the football department paying off the debt. I seem to recall that we climbed into the black for a brief period of time.

The implication obviously being that that the flux of soft tissue injuries that Teflon mentioned, which I think was more mid-late 2005 and heavily through 2006, was more a result of bad expertise/advice.
I remember that we ended recruiting a Freo guy that made us extremely muscle bound… like he’d done to Freo a year earlier and they were crucified with soft tissue injuries.

I’m hazy with more details though. Do I have this right or am I remember it wrong?

[Trev from the Bush]

23 posts, 8 from Teflon.

It seems he doesn't like GT. Threads like this are like krill for a hungry whale, such in eveything and blow what you don't want out.

1 post from blowhard Trevor.
I know who the whale is.
Krill sandwich??

Make that 9.

Centre of attention.

And Zero from Trevor talking footy
Slow news day in the bush Trevor?
Grab another can head out the shed she’ll be right mate

I've just been out shooting vermin. How many vitriol laden comments can one troll make about a former coach? You seem to have the gold medal in your grasp.

[B.M]

Seriously Trev

We know that GT caused injuries and the fact he only coached to two preliminary finals and three finals series in a row basically means he was a failure

The coach is responsible for everything

Including all of the footy department hiring! The recruiting The sports science Even the diets of the players!

And don’t forget the results!!!!

Don’t tell Clarko though… because his last 100 games as coach he’s going at about 40%

[Vazelos]

Saints won more games than any other team between 2004-6.
I like GT. I think he was a great coach.

I disagree and so do ex assistant coaches who knew and told me “he **** your club”
I think his ego cost us flags with that list
How would they have gone with Lyon in charge …
Couldn’t move Grant on though ….even though he was meant to be caretaker????
Egotist

Well said Teflon he is a stain on our history he cost us 2 flags for placing his ego ahead of the club and using his influence on a cowboy president and club to become coach when he had no right to be.

[SaintPav]

Lyon was never in the frame until the last minute in 2006 AFTER GT was given the flick.

The preferred candidate in 2002 was the geeza who got the job at Freo, Chris Connolly.

However, Butters needed to give the stand in coach a job. How else was he going to pay him back all that moula he owed him?

They were all in on it.

Massive corporate governance failure.