2009 GF

[Teflon]

Whilst Judd was obviously the better player... few were complaining that much about it in 03, 04 and 05

Ball was a gun.

It wasn’t til the OP really got hold of him that the standard dropped.

It’s one of the main reasons why I hate carrying players that are starting to develop recurring injuries. Just give them the time off, let them properly heal/recovery instead of playing impaired and give someone the opportunity

On the grand scale... what would it really have cost us to go through 06 with Ball on the sidelines and have him come back fit and firing in 07

And who failed to manage Ball properly??
The great messiah….GT
What damage he did to our club

[Teflon]

It wasn’t just Ball he dumped



Don't like the truth do you teffers?

Your man was the ultimate failure as a coach. 4 Grannies for no wins FFS.

The facts speak for themselves.

With the list we got in those days, the drover's dog could have got us to a GF, and probably would have won as well.

Not the drover dog before him who had a better list??
Now it’s ….Lyon was so Shyte Scott Watters could’ve got us there …just auto pilot …he installed no game style or structure the team brought into to win 19 straight?
I’ve read some dribble on here but really…

[Teflon]

I have no problem taking Ball ahead of Judd, that one was just bad luck.

Look at how good pre-OP Ball was, could hold his own with Judd IMO.

Held his own with Judd??
Come on..

Yep, I stand by it.

Go back and watch him, was a gun. OP ruined any chance he had of reaching his potential. (By the way, why do we never hear about OP anymore, when at one stage it was everywhere?)

And on the other subject, Lyon was clearly a great coach, 3 GFs proves that. GT probably had a better list and couldn’t quite get there, but also very good.

Fair enough we’ll agree to disagree.
I have Judd as an absolute match winner - up there with my best mids of all time in Voss, Buckley, Harvey , Ricciutto etc
A rung down
Luke Hodge who maybe early doors Ball was comparable to
The first bracket plus Judd swung games off their own boot
I never saw Ball do that even at his best
Anyway each to theirs…
And yes, agree Lyon was a great coach
Actually a mate of mine follows another club reckons had we taken Judd streaming out of the middle or bursting from packs to hit Riewoldt on the lead we’d have been unstoppable and won multiple flags…his view …pick the order but you’ve effectively got the no 1 and no 2 best players in the AFL in your side…
But alas…,Grant knew better ….Luke had good moral fibre or whatever gibberish he sprouted st the tine

[SaintPav]

2004-06:

Judd was both and inside and outside player.

Ball was mostly inside and didn’t have the same impact on a game as Judd IMO.

Very good player though.

[B.M]

Ball became purely inside in 08 after losing some running power


He was extremely quick prior to OP


Did athletics 100m before he was drafted

[Bowey Boy]

Maybe have 4 flags if we had drafted Judd. Of course we wouldn't have though.

[Wayne42]

2009 Grand Final.

We lost, unfortunately.

[desertsaint]

luke ball was possibly the best of them in his first couple of years - but got smashed physically every game, then of course never realised his potential due to op.
judd and hodge pretty likely would have gone past him anyway, judd a champion player and hodge a champion leader. but put it this way - ball vs judd/hodge is a closer comparison than billings v bont, or mccartin v petraca.
in the end ball won as many flags as judd, just had to go to another team to do it.
would we have won with judd? i reckon we'd have a few. but who can say with the saints curse. such is life.

[Teflon]

Ball became purely inside in 08 after losing some running power


He was extremely quick prior to OP


Did athletics 100m before he was drafted

Never had the burst of speed from congestion that Judd had on a football field at any stage of his career
Lots of hood athletes don’t translate to burst players in footy - it’s more than running in a straight line

[Teflon]

2004-06:

Judd was both and inside and outside player.

Ball was mostly inside and didn’t have the same impact on a game as Judd IMO.

Very good player though.

That’s how I see it too Pav
Ball could’ve been a great mid
Judd was elite

[SydneySainter]

I have no problem taking Ball ahead of Judd, that one was just bad luck.

Look at how good pre-OP Ball was, could hold his own with Judd IMO.

Held his own with Judd??
Come on..

Yep, I stand by it.

Go back and watch him, was a gun. OP ruined any chance he had of reaching his potential. (By the way, why do we never hear about OP anymore, when at one stage it was everywhere?)

And on the other subject, Lyon was clearly a great coach, 3 GFs proves that. GT probably had a better list and couldn’t quite get there, but also very good.

Fair enough we’ll agree to disagree.
I have Judd as an absolute match winner - up there with my best mids of all time in Voss, Buckley, Harvey , Ricciutto etc
A rung down
Luke Hodge who maybe early doors Ball was comparable to
The first bracket plus Judd swung games off their own boot
I never saw Ball do that even at his best
Anyway each to theirs…
And yes, agree Lyon was a great coach
Actually a mate of mine follows another club reckons had we taken Judd streaming out of the middle or bursting from packs to hit Riewoldt on the lead we’d have been unstoppable and won multiple flags…his view …pick the order but you’ve effectively got the no 1 and no 2 best players in the AFL in your side…
But alas…,Grant knew better ….Luke had good moral fibre or whatever gibberish he sprouted st the tine

Agreed.

I don’t dispute that the Luke Ball of 04/05 was worthy of a top 5 draft selection and in the right place at the right time, could even be a match winner, but to suggest he could have been a match winner in the mould of Judd - sorry, not at all the same conversation.

Judd was the next level and even a fully fit Ball wouldn’t have gotten there.

[D.B.Cooper]

Ball became purely inside in 08 after losing some running power


He was extremely quick prior to OP


Did athletics 100m before he was drafted

Now that is not correct.
Not correct at all.
In fact it is made up.

I’ve been involved in athletics for donkeys years along with other Olympic sports.

Ball did Aths at Sandringham as a junior and was a decent athlete but not at all outstanding.

He was well known as a cricketer in those days and as a footballer, but not a top runner.

He was not extremely quick at all.
He was well above the average kid but well behind the elite sprinters.

Might have been ok at APS but was not a gun sprinter at state level let alone higher.

[B.M]

He did aths for his school in the APS

As well as Cricket and Footy

Outstanding runner as a teen

[D.B.Cooper]

He did aths for his school in the APS

As well as Cricket and Footy

Outstanding runner as a teen

Bullish!t.

APS
Lol, no offense but if APS Aths is your guide you have no understanding of athletics and elite runners.

Outstanding runner is totally inaccurate.

Either you have no clue what an outstanding runner is or you are just doubling down on your fabricated story.

[skeptic]

I can settle this

Not extremely quick but certainly not as slow as he went on to become