Dunstan dropped

[cwrcyn]

Here's the reality, though. He'll be 27 soon. He's played 116 games. From game 1 to game game 105, he got more than 25 possessions maybe 10 times (am I being generous?). For the vast majority of the games he had less than 20, often less than 15. From game 106 to 116 he's had the 25 possessions another 9 times. Which form line is a more accurate representation of his career? Would his current form continue, or would he be more like the Luke Dunstan of pre 2021?

Yes, he's been much better this year, but can he depended on to maintain this level of output? No one can know. One thing that has been consistent across all his games and can be counted on in future is his poor kicking.

[bangaulegend]

Here's the reality, though. He'll be 27 soon. He's played 116 games. From game 1 to game game 105, he got more than 25 possessions maybe 10 times (am I being generous?). For the vast majority of the games he had less than 20, often less than 15. From game 106 to 116 he's had the 25 possessions another 9 times. Which form line is a more accurate representation of his career? Would his current form continue, or would he be more like the Luke Dunstan of pre 2021?

Yes, he's been much better this year, but can he depended on to maintain this level of output? No one can know. One thing that has been consistent across all his games and can be counted on in future is his poor kicking.

True I agree but IMO if we were still a finals chance he would be playing I guess we will never know

[saynta]

Dunstan so much better in 2021

Why is he out of the team - again??

Had a s*** game last weekend. That holding the ball incident was f****** horrendous.

Good luck to him wherever he ends up in 2022. He will play some good games, some ordinary games and the occasional shocker.

Just like he did in R W & B.

[The_Dud]

Dunstan so much better in 2021

Why is he out of the team - again??

It’s pretty clear it is not due to form, just getting a head start on next year.

And as I’ve said earlier, the selection process has no integrity due to all the untouchables in the team.

[1966]

Dunstan would have been a great player in the 1980s playing in the Moorabbin bog.
Not now - his disposal and decision making are horrible.
His effort is good and apparently a great bloke but not good enough to play in midfield in a decent team.

[B.M]

Would’ve been a great mud track player

Unfortunately, unless he plays suburban footy, there is no mud. Most games are on fast tracks, which require running power.

I’ll never forget a time trial at Seaford where he only beat Longer and Pierce home. For a mid that is horrendous!

He must’ve got better, as he covered the ground better this year, but his ball use by foot is sub standard.

[WellardSaint]

In a perfect world we keep them all, but managing salary caps mean older marginal players get pushed out. Our problem is we have spent mega $$$ on the wrong players in Hill & Hannebrey, which has caused cap issues that effects other players.

Dunstan will leave solely to get some career longevity.
Ross I hope he stays but on the right money.
Billings hope he stays but on the right money.

If Battle leaves it will be on our terms as he is contracted.

Perfectly summarised.
We can't afford to keep 'marginal', when I say 'afford' it's dollar terms as well as the cost of a list spot that would go to a young guy with a lot of upside.
A fringe player like Dunstan, we know he's hit his ceiling.
He's predictable.

Give the spot to a young guy whose body is growing.
He'll gain strength, gain knowledge, and the sky is the limit. He has all the pros and none of the cons (unless we stupidly pick another McCartin)

[skeptic]

Good write up

Now rate Dunstan’s career in comparison

Dunstan started fairly well and promised a bit... about three years in it became evident that he couldn’t run out games and went missing for quarters and halves at a time.
Had a couple of instances where he strung 3-4 good to excellent games together and a few instances where he locked good and was either hurt or dropped.

I also remember a few games where he made big, game saving tackles, smothers, won crucial contests etc

But all of the those things... + the credits for his “blocking” and “inside work” for no possessions were spent by about 2019

Most, and certainly myself, were completely done with him coming into 2021 and had his papers stamped. If any reinforcement was required... that Tigers game earlier this year completely reaffirmed it. He had a blistering patch where he got a handful of touches that saw him turn it over badly for a coast to coast or just kill the advantage spread and stuff up what looked like potential goals.
First time for a long time I’ve seen a player get benched for an extended period because he was actively detrimental to the team performance and it was decided the team would be better off going a man down.

He got his final opportunity approximately 2 months ago and he’s come out a different player
The very definition of a bull... angry, attacking contests, racking up the possessions, running all game, tackles, chases, one of the few players that’s consistently stood up even against the run of play when at times Crouch, Steele and Jones couldn’t get near it.

Disposal = super iffy by both hands and foot... quite often just tends to really MISS whoever he’s aiming for by 10-15m+ or a lack of composure sees horrible decision making.
But he’s working harder, getting to more contests, and winning more contests then Ross at the moment

The quality I like about Luke ATM is that when the going gets tough onfield, his response seems to be back himself to be the guy to turn it all around and lead the way.
Doesn’t give up and certainly is far from content sitting on an empty side of the ground for 20-30min a game satisfied with just “guarding his man”. You don’t see instances with Dunstan under commuting to spoil/stop his opponent from marking and kicking the game winning goal.

It looks to me like Ross appears content to comfortably wind down his career at this point... out of the middle, not as dominant as he used to be, no problem, he’ll change roles... tends to be inconsistent with his disposal still (not terrible but certainly not good under pressure)... don’t prioritise working on it... stop, prop, go backwards... certainly doesn’t take the game on like he used to. I struggle to remember the last really big Ross statement
Vs Adelaide when we lost Clark, lost momentum and needed an experienced B&F midfielder to step up and lead the way when the usuals struggled... nope.
Vs Geelong when the game was on the line... nah.
I just reckon he looks happy to play out 2 more years, at a decent standard... do just enough and retire.

Dunstan looks like a man whose realised time is running out and may over commit to everything for the next 3-4 seasons.

That is, if his attitude doesn’t get in the way... his pouty, salty and downright entitled demeanour (based on appearances and statements), reflects very very poorly on him IMO. Should be thankful for the extended opportunity he’s gotten to excel when he hasn’t earned it. Incredibly poor form to walk out when for the first time, he’s looked like he should even be on the list.

I guess ultimately, if I had to pick just one, I’d stick with Ross because he at least seems to be more of a consummate professional and a few players have singled him out for the 1:1 work he’s done with them. I mean it’s the bare minimum one expects as a leader but I’ve learned the harsh lesson from the 2012-15 era of moving on too many your leaders in Goddard, Dal (pbly others) with a developing list.

To be honest though... we need upgrades on both of them

[damienc]

Good write up

Now rate Dunstan’s career in comparison

Dunstan started fairly well and promised a bit... about three years in it became evident that he couldn’t run out games and went missing for quarters and halves at a time.
Had a couple of instances where he strung 3-4 good to excellent games together and a few instances where he locked good and was either hurt or dropped.

I also remember a few games where he made big, game saving tackles, smothers, won crucial contests etc

But all of the those things... + the credits for his “blocking” and “inside work” for no possessions were spent by about 2019

Most, and certainly myself, were completely done with him coming into 2021 and had his papers stamped. If any reinforcement was required... that Tigers game earlier this year completely reaffirmed it. He had a blistering patch where he got a handful of touches that saw him turn it over badly for a coast to coast or just kill the advantage spread and stuff up what looked like potential goals.
First time for a long time I’ve seen a player get benched for an extended period because he was actively detrimental to the team performance and it was decided the team would be better off going a man down.

He got his final opportunity approximately 2 months ago and he’s come out a different player
The very definition of a bull... angry, attacking contests, racking up the possessions, running all game, tackles, chases, one of the few players that’s consistently stood up even against the run of play when at times Crouch, Steele and Jones couldn’t get near it.

Disposal = super iffy by both hands and foot... quite often just tends to really MISS whoever he’s aiming for by 10-15m+ or a lack of composure sees horrible decision making.
But he’s working harder, getting to more contests, and winning more contests then Ross at the moment

The quality I like about Luke ATM is that when the going gets tough onfield, his response seems to be back himself to be the guy to turn it all around and lead the way.
Doesn’t give up and certainly is far from content sitting on an empty side of the ground for 20-30min a game satisfied with just “guarding his man”. You don’t see instances with Dunstan under commuting to spoil/stop his opponent from marking and kicking the game winning goal.

It looks to me like Ross appears content to comfortably wind down his career at this point... out of the middle, not as dominant as he used to be, no problem, he’ll change roles... tends to be inconsistent with his disposal still (not terrible but certainly not good under pressure)... don’t prioritise working on it... stop, prop, go backwards... certainly doesn’t take the game on like he used to. I struggle to remember the last really big Ross statement
Vs Adelaide when we lost Clark, lost momentum and needed an experienced B&F midfielder to step up and lead the way when the usuals struggled... nope.
Vs Geelong when the game was on the line... nah.
I just reckon he looks happy to play out 2 more years, at a decent standard... do just enough and retire.

Dunstan looks like a man whose realised time is running out and may over commit to everything for the next 3-4 seasons.

That is, if his attitude doesn’t get in the way... his pouty, salty and downright entitled demeanour (based on appearances and statements), reflects very very poorly on him IMO. Should be thankful for the extended opportunity he’s gotten to excel when he hasn’t earned it. Incredibly poor form to walk out when for the first time, he’s looked like he should even be on the list.

I guess ultimately, if I had to pick just one, I’d stick with Ross because he at least seems to be more of a consummate professional and a few players have singled him out for the 1:1 work he’s done with them. I mean it’s the bare minimum one expects as a leader but I’ve learned the harsh lesson from the 2012-15 era of moving on too many your leaders in Goddard, Dal (pbly others) with a developing list.

To be honest though... we need upgrades on both of them

Well said and spot on.

[Ghost Like]

Ultimately keeping them all does not help us improve. Billings to stay on less dollars as he's consistent and a higher ceiling when he plays well.
Ross will test the market, if it's not to his liking, another to stay on on less dollars, consistent and a higher ceiling & disciple.
Dunstan is gone - fingers crossed on a good, long term contract.

[ace]

Is he injured but they can't admit that and still iist him as an emergency.

OR

He has been made an offer by the club but said I want to explore free agency.
The club responded we would rather put a game into Bytel than someone who may not be committed to our club.

[Vazelos]

Good write up

Now rate Dunstan’s career in comparison

Dunstan started fairly well and promised a bit... about three years in it became evident that he couldn’t run out games and went missing for quarters and halves at a time.
Had a couple of instances where he strung 3-4 good to excellent games together and a few instances where he locked good and was either hurt or dropped.

I also remember a few games where he made big, game saving tackles, smothers, won crucial contests etc

But all of the those things... + the credits for his “blocking” and “inside work” for no possessions were spent by about 2019

Most, and certainly myself, were completely done with him coming into 2021 and had his papers stamped. If any reinforcement was required... that Tigers game earlier this year completely reaffirmed it. He had a blistering patch where he got a handful of touches that saw him turn it over badly for a coast to coast or just kill the advantage spread and stuff up what looked like potential goals.
First time for a long time I’ve seen a player get benched for an extended period because he was actively detrimental to the team performance and it was decided the team would be better off going a man down.

He got his final opportunity approximately 2 months ago and he’s come out a different player
The very definition of a bull... angry, attacking contests, racking up the possessions, running all game, tackles, chases, one of the few players that’s consistently stood up even against the run of play when at times Crouch, Steele and Jones couldn’t get near it.

Disposal = super iffy by both hands and foot... quite often just tends to really MISS whoever he’s aiming for by 10-15m+ or a lack of composure sees horrible decision making.
But he’s working harder, getting to more contests, and winning more contests then Ross at the moment

The quality I like about Luke ATM is that when the going gets tough onfield, his response seems to be back himself to be the guy to turn it all around and lead the way.
Doesn’t give up and certainly is far from content sitting on an empty side of the ground for 20-30min a game satisfied with just “guarding his man”. You don’t see instances with Dunstan under commuting to spoil/stop his opponent from marking and kicking the game winning goal.

It looks to me like Ross appears content to comfortably wind down his career at this point... out of the middle, not as dominant as he used to be, no problem, he’ll change roles... tends to be inconsistent with his disposal still (not terrible but certainly not good under pressure)... don’t prioritise working on it... stop, prop, go backwards... certainly doesn’t take the game on like he used to. I struggle to remember the last really big Ross statement
Vs Adelaide when we lost Clark, lost momentum and needed an experienced B&F midfielder to step up and lead the way when the usuals struggled... nope.
Vs Geelong when the game was on the line... nah.
I just reckon he looks happy to play out 2 more years, at a decent standard... do just enough and retire.

Dunstan looks like a man whose realised time is running out and may over commit to everything for the next 3-4 seasons.

That is, if his attitude doesn’t get in the way... his pouty, salty and downright entitled demeanour (based on appearances and statements), reflects very very poorly on him IMO. Should be thankful for the extended opportunity he’s gotten to excel when he hasn’t earned it. Incredibly poor form to walk out when for the first time, he’s looked like he should even be on the list.

I guess ultimately, if I had to pick just one, I’d stick with Ross because he at least seems to be more of a consummate professional and a few players have singled him out for the 1:1 work he’s done with them. I mean it’s the bare minimum one expects as a leader but I’ve learned the harsh lesson from the 2012-15 era of moving on too many your leaders in Goddard, Dal (pbly others) with a developing list.

To be honest though... we need upgrades on both of them

Excellent assessment

[B.M]

As a winger You have to hold structure

You cannot just chase the ball. Or impart yourself on the game!

There are days when I’ve played wing, where the ball hardly goes to you or the game is played on the other side.
Other days, you have it on a string.

[saynta]

Dunstan wasn't missed at all and we got another game into Bytel. On the other hand Seb played a good game.

Loved Bytel's two goals, An added bonus.

[saynta]

As a winger You have to hold structure

You cannot just chase the ball. Or impart yourself on the game!

There are days when I’ve played wing, where the ball hardly goes to you or the game is played on the other side.
Other days, you have it on a string.

Yep, know that feeling. Much easier to get a kick on the HBF too.

[B.M]

Thought Seb was quiet

Not in the play much? Not sure of his numbers, but wasn’t influential

[B.M]

Much preferred playing HB, easiest position to play - and so did my opponent because I was loose as f***!!!

Massive kick chaser, and often shouted down by coaches for it!!!

As such, spent most of my time in the midfield- again, not playing a lot of defence!!!

[saynta]

Thought Seb was quiet

Not in the play much? Not sure of his numbers, but wasn’t influential

14 possessions. 6 kicks 8 handballs, three tackles . Quiet for him, yes.

[Sanctorum]

I don't go along with the unsubstantiated reports that Dunstan was informed at the start of 2021 that he would not have his contract renewed this year - that's just not credible and pure speculation and somewhat malicious...

Luke Dunstan had been yet another victim of St Kilda's appalling record in development of young draftees during the Richardson years - the latest of whom is Oscar Clavarino, who was picked up #35 in 2017 and didn't debut until this year and could well be delisted after just 5 games! I hope young Matt Allison doesn't suffer a similar fate.

[skeptic]

Holding structure now… that the new line is it?

Sounds to me like a classic BM rationalisation to support a player you have a bias for.

I wonder for which specific players and when, this standard applies

Heard some scathing reviews regarding Coffield, Hill-and Higgins at times this year. Can they get away with just “holding structure”

[saynta]

I don't go along with the unsubstantiated reports that Dunstan was informed at the start of 2021 that he would not have his contract renewed this year - that's just not credible and pure speculation and somewhat malicious...

Luke Dunstan had been yet another victim of St Kilda's appalling record in development of young draftees during the Richardson years - the latest of whom is Oscar Clavarino, who was picked up #35 in 2017 and didn't debut until this year and could well be delisted after just 5 games! I hope young Matt Allison doesn't suffer a similar fate.

Think Oscar will be though. f****** shame. Held back by injuries and covid restriction in 2020 and 2021.

[Teflon]

Bytel has played 14 games
Had 7 tackles 17 possessions a abs kicked 2....I can only imagine what game 57 will be like
Let’s pray Ross goes too - no longer in centre square cause not good enough abs today looked disinterested to me ..that’s ok just get a good deal Seb
Keep Billings on a reduced contract
Draft gun mid
Chase Bing now....I’d go hard ....GC are on their knees ...offer now

[The_Dud]

Lol, the excuses for this bloke are endless!

Played on the other wing?! This ain’t the 80s anymore!

He had no influence again today, like a lot of this season. Was the worst ‘mid’ for us today (except for sub Byrnes). Might find it hard to get a spot in the 22 with our full list next year, no surprise he’s looking elsewhere for a gig.

[B.M]

Skeptic

I’m sure you understand different roles in footy?!

How did you see Ben Long’s game today?

[The_Dud]

Holding structure now… that the new line is it?

Sounds to me like a classic BM rationalisation to support a player you have a bias for.

I wonder for which specific players and when, this standard applies

Heard some scathing reviews regarding Coffield, Hill-and Higgins at times this year. Can they get away with just “holding structure”

Has the Billy Longer ‘physical influence’ stench about it!