Billings and King

[Secret Kiel]

He could be a big liability in a final.

I could list a few big names who were quiet in big finals, but let's not go there.

Billings nearly won us the game on Sunday. It depends on which way you look at it.

I think you're using hyperbole to sound contentious because you like playing the role of the agitator. Fine by me.

Carry on.

I agree he nearly won us the game with a few touches in one quarter, imagine if he gave us two quarters. I'm pretty certain the coaches wouldn't have slapped him on the back and praised him for NEARLY winning us the game.

[SaintPav]

He could be a big liability in a final.

I could list a few big names who were quiet in big finals, but let's not go there.

Billings nearly won us the game on Sunday. It depends on which way you look at it.

I think you're using hyperbole to sound contentious because you like playing the role of the agitator. Fine by me.

Carry on.

I agree he nearly won us the game with a few touches in one quarter, imagine if he gave us two quarters. I'm pretty certain the coaches wouldn't have slapped him on the back and praised him for NEARLY winning us the game.

AND??!!

[Secret Kiel]

He could be a big liability in a final.

I could list a few big names who were quiet in big finals, but let's not go there.

Billings nearly won us the game on Sunday. It depends on which way you look at it.

I think you're using hyperbole to sound contentious because you like playing the role of the agitator. Fine by me.

Carry on.

I agree he nearly won us the game with a few touches in one quarter, imagine if he gave us two quarters. I'm pretty certain the coaches wouldn't have slapped him on the back and praised him for NEARLY winning us the game.

AND??!!

Can you just allow me to be agitated. I'm annoyed at the backslapping given to Jack. He shouldn't be praised for that game in any way. He can't pick and choose when he wants to contribute. If he wants the big coin he has to earn it.

[SaintPav]

He could be a big liability in a final.

I could list a few big names who were quiet in big finals, but let's not go there.

Billings nearly won us the game on Sunday. It depends on which way you look at it.

I think you're using hyperbole to sound contentious because you like playing the role of the agitator. Fine by me.

Carry on.

I agree he nearly won us the game with a few touches in one quarter, imagine if he gave us two quarters. I'm pretty certain the coaches wouldn't have slapped him on the back and praised him for NEARLY winning us the game.

AND??!!

Can you just allow me to be agitated. I'm annoyed at the backslapping given to Jack. He shouldn't be praised for that game in any way. He can't pick and choose when he wants to contribute. If he wants the big coin he has to earn it.

Be as agitated as you want. Say what you want. I don't really care and I deplore censorship but that's not my point.

If you're going to exaggerate and use hyperbole like comparing him to Aaron Fiora expect people to respond and to respond hard.

[skeptic]

I also think that it’s not really a case of backslapping.

The OP (me) well and truly conceded that he was beaten on the day and it’s a fair enough comment that for Billings to take the next, he needs to more consistently produce his best.

That’s fair enough.

It will be hard for a player like him because, opposition target play makers like him and Hill so I reckon there’s always going to be matches where he gets beaten.

The frequency will determine whether he remains a good player or become an elite one.

The flip side however is, IMO the hardest thing to do in any game is rebound mid game when you’re having a stinker.

And he did. He responded better than any of us reasonably expected he could and almost won us that match. And that’s something.
I admire that level of perseverance/resilience.

That shows something. Is it better than a 4 quarter performance, of course not but it’s worth a note.

[SaintPav]

I also think that it’s not really a case of backslapping.

The OP (me) well and truly conceded that he was beaten on the day and it’s a fair enough comment that for Billings to take the next, he needs to more consistently produce his best.

That’s fair enough.

It will be hard for a player like him because, opposition target play makers like him and Hill so I reckon there’s always going to be matches where he gets beaten.

The frequency will determine whether he remains a good player or become an elite one.

The flip side however is, IMO the hardest thing to do in any game is rebound mid game when you’re having a stinker.

And he did. He responded better than any of us reasonably expected he could and almost won us that match. And that’s something.
I admire that level of perseverance/resilience.

That shows something. Is it better than a 4 quarter performance, of course not but it’s worth a note.

Good post.

Measured and fair.

[Secret Kiel]

I also think that it’s not really a case of backslapping.

The OP (me) well and truly conceded that he was beaten on the day and it’s a fair enough comment that for Billings to take the next, he needs to more consistently produce his best.

That’s fair enough.

It will be hard for a player like him because, opposition target play makers like him and Hill so I reckon there’s always going to be matches where he gets beaten.

The frequency will determine whether he remains a good player or become an elite one.

The flip side however is, IMO the hardest thing to do in any game is rebound mid game when you’re having a stinker.

And he did. He responded better than any of us reasonably expected he could and almost won us that match. And that’s something.
I admire that level of perseverance/resilience.

That shows something. Is it better than a 4 quarter performance, of course not but it’s worth a note.

And that's fair enough for you to have that view but I take what I think will be the coaches view and that is not to praise his game in anyway but to highlight how it is unacceptable. Whilst it is spun for the sake of finding the "positives", it doesn't matter which quarter you decide to contribute in, it is still only one quarter of contribution. What would be the positive if he makes that contribution in Q1, and clocks off for the next 3 quarters. I don't think there is any excuse for Jack and where he's at in his career.

He's not having a good season if you consider he's had 3 or 4 really poor contributions out of 12 games.

[Secret Kiel]

A footnote or question: where is he on the ladder of coaches votes.

[Ghost Like]

I also think that it’s not really a case of backslapping.

The OP (me) well and truly conceded that he was beaten on the day and it’s a fair enough comment that for Billings to take the next, he needs to more consistently produce his best.

That’s fair enough.

It will be hard for a player like him because, opposition target play makers like him and Hill so I reckon there’s always going to be matches where he gets beaten.

The frequency will determine whether he remains a good player or become an elite one.

The flip side however is, IMO the hardest thing to do in any game is rebound mid game when you’re having a stinker.

And he did. He responded better than any of us reasonably expected he could and almost won us that match. And that’s something.
I admire that level of perseverance/resilience.

That shows something. Is it better than a 4 quarter performance, of course not but it’s worth a note.

Excellent post. Exactly what a head coach will focus on.

[Ghost Like]

A footnote or question: where is he on the ladder of coaches votes.

This is interesting, first votes in the TB medal were cast aside as being meaningless (in Jack's case), now the question is raised about coaches' votes as being the measurement of a player's worth.

The more someone tries to justify a position by picking and choosing measurements of justification, the sillier they begin to look. I do not for a moment believe you are that silly S*K* so I believe you are being mischievous in your stance on both Billings & King.

[The_Dud]

A footnote or question: where is he on the ladder of coaches votes.

Steele 52
Jones 37
Billings 25
Butler 25
Greshem 22
Membrey 12
Marshall 10
Howard 8
Ryder 8
Coffield 7
Clark 6
Hind 6
Battle 4
Carlisle 1
Hannebery 1
Ross 1
Wilkie 1

“He's not having a good season if you consider he's had 3 or 4 really poor contributions out of 12 games.”

Coaches seem to disagree with you (shocker) having Billings about top 3 for us this year. His worst games this year would almost stack up against some of our more senior and experienced players best.

Also note, 4 of our 5 big new recruits have managed to pole votes, 2 very well, with one notably missing. Maybe that’s where your criticism should be directed.

[Teflon]

Stats are always interesting
Have a guess how many goals Jacks kicked against
Cats
Tigers
Power
Pies
Lions ??????

1.
Anyone for some downhill skiing?

Yes stats are-

Billings had 25 possessions v Richmond & 22 against Port - above his average - we won both games

He had 17 & 1 goal against the Cats on a down day for the whole team

Lions 15 and should have had 2 goals were it not for Dim Tim stopping him on the goal line

He had a filthy game vs the Pies as did the whole team

All probably while trying to shake a hard tag

Billings ain't the problem and trading him away won't fix it

You pointed to his goals?
I just pointed out he doesn’t get them against good sides when it matters - see Sunday
Absolutely replaceable

[Teflon]

I cant believe Billings let us down so badly - he must be scapegoated

He is the one we must blame for our 2pts loss to a 95% full strength Top 2 Bears (missing Rich) at the GABBA where they have won 14 out of there last 16 games.

Jacks a nice fella but absolutely replaceable

Only 2 players above JB who are in the Top 25 in the league for Disposals and have kicked more goals

Lachie Neale 11 goals
Sam Menagola 11 goals
Billings 10 Goals
Petracca 9 goals
Bont 8 goals

Replace away

All of those players can win a clearance....what’s Jack missing ???
Based on your numbers he’s better than the Bont!!!
Should be a straight swap for Kelly then cause Jacks kicked more goals....lol

Bont averages 5 clearances a game - Billings 2 (without playing at the coalface) - so less than 1 more per quarter

Petracca 3.8 - Menegola 2.3

Neale 5.6 - but he is the hottest Brownlow favourite in years

I thought you didn’t like averages?????
Bonts had 65 clearances
Jack 27

But again he’s a modern mid...

Bont plays at the coalface Billings doesn't - they play different roles

Bont averages 1 more disposal than JB per game - Bont goes at 65% efficiency - JB 70%

The Bont is a freak and no1 player at the Dogs

You told me it’s a modern game so Billings is a modern mid...except he doesn’t get clearances?
I’m confused on the mid bit
He’s a good wing/HF but we need mids
Trade away for mine

[Teflon]

C'mon Teflon...say it!! Billings is soft. He's a receiver

Now that we have Hill, do we really need 2 mids that can't win their own footy?

I’d never call any AFL footballers soft tbh
Billings is a good player who may be useful in getting us a great player
I’m purely after the outcome
I am looking for midfield class - Billings doesn’t give us that
Do I think Hunter Clark could play wing/fwd of the ball as effectively as Billings?
I do
He’s replaceable imo

[Teflon]

Billings has had a very consistent year, he is not the problem, would be top 5 in the b&f this year.

Managed to turn his game around yesterday and was nearly the difference in the last quarter. Maybe the coach needed to pull the trigger earlier, who knows.

Agreed.

Good player and certainly fits the build for what we need more of. He and Hill and are no doubt the 2 of the main focal points for opposition coaches to target.

Both are very damaging when they are able to accumulate possessions.

Obviously JB was beaten for 3/4 yesterday but as Dud says, has been good this year. Certainly not the problem.

It’s not about him being the problem it’s about need
You simply have to give up something to get A grade quality
What are we offering - Geary?
FFS Billings is replaceable

[The_Dud]

Billings has had a very consistent year, he is not the problem, would be top 5 in the b&f this year.

Managed to turn his game around yesterday and was nearly the difference in the last quarter. Maybe the coach needed to pull the trigger earlier, who knows.

Agreed.

Good player and certainly fits the build for what we need more of. He and Hill and are no doubt the 2 of the main focal points for opposition coaches to target.

Both are very damaging when they are able to accumulate possessions.

Obviously JB was beaten for 3/4 yesterday but as Dud says, has been good this year. Certainly not the problem.

It’s not about him being the problem it’s about need
You simply have to give up something to get A grade quality
What are we offering - Geary?
FFS Billings is replaceable

If you’re looking at it like that I’d say there are very few in the team who aren’t replaceable

[Teflon]

I cant believe Billings let us down so badly - he must be scapegoated

He is the one we must blame for our 2pts loss to a 95% full strength Top 2 Bears (missing Rich) at the GABBA where they have won 14 out of there last 16 games.

Jacks a nice fella but absolutely replaceable

Only 2 players above JB who are in the Top 25 in the league for Disposals and have kicked more goals

Lachie Neale 11 goals
Sam Menagola 11 goals
Billings 10 Goals
Petracca 9 goals
Bont 8 goals

Replace away

All of those players can win a clearance....what’s Jack missing ???
Based on your numbers he’s better than the Bont!!!
Should be a straight swap for Kelly then cause Jacks kicked more goals....lol

Bont averages 5 clearances a game - Billings 2 (without playing at the coalface) - so less than 1 more per quarter

Petracca 3.8 - Menegola 2.3

Neale 5.6 - but he is the hottest Brownlow favourite in years

I thought you didn’t like averages?????
Bonts had 65 clearances
Jack 27

But again he’s a modern mid...

Billings does get a lot of the ball, and this is a plus but his high possession count is often inflated by receiving return handballs. He does have a good looking style on his left boot and he can kick distance, but he too often misses targets. He is at his best when he is after the contested ball, and his final quarter goal was sensational. More often than not though, he is an outside receiver. He is not often given a tag, which likely reflects how other coaches rate him. I doubt other teams would pay near the 800k that we reportedly do.

Well said I agree
He’s not gonna get 800 at Cats
He’s not tagged that’s rubbish he’s an outside who often when things are tough you have to look around the park to see if he’s still there
No disrespect there many players do that
We just need gun mids and he could be useful to get us one

[Teflon]

Billings has had a very consistent year, he is not the problem, would be top 5 in the b&f this year.

Managed to turn his game around yesterday and was nearly the difference in the last quarter. Maybe the coach needed to pull the trigger earlier, who knows.

Agreed.

Good player and certainly fits the build for what we need more of. He and Hill and are no doubt the 2 of the main focal points for opposition coaches to target.

Both are very damaging when they are able to accumulate possessions.

Obviously JB was beaten for 3/4 yesterday but as Dud says, has been good this year. Certainly not the problem.

It’s not about him being the problem it’s about need
You simply have to give up something to get A grade quality
What are we offering - Geary?
FFS Billings is replaceable

If you’re looking at it like that I’d say there are very few in the team who aren’t replaceable

Ofcourse I agree few off limits
So which one goes that doesn’t hurt us to much but would yield interest????
Not Savage....
Hi Jack !
We could be real close with this side with a stronger mid taking advantage of excellent Ruckwork
We need to be brave or we’ll end up mid table

[The_Dud]

Billings has had a very consistent year, he is not the problem, would be top 5 in the b&f this year.

Managed to turn his game around yesterday and was nearly the difference in the last quarter. Maybe the coach needed to pull the trigger earlier, who knows.

Agreed.

Good player and certainly fits the build for what we need more of. He and Hill and are no doubt the 2 of the main focal points for opposition coaches to target.

Both are very damaging when they are able to accumulate possessions.

Obviously JB was beaten for 3/4 yesterday but as Dud says, has been good this year. Certainly not the problem.

It’s not about him being the problem it’s about need
You simply have to give up something to get A grade quality
What are we offering - Geary?
FFS Billings is replaceable

If you’re looking at it like that I’d say there are very few in the team who aren’t replaceable

Ofcourse I agree few off limits
So which one goes that doesn’t hurt us to much but would yield interest????
Not Savage....
Hi Jack !
We could be real close with this side with a stronger mid taking advantage of excellent Ruckwork
We need to be brave or we’ll end up mid table

Preferably I’d like to go the free agency route, spend some of this ‘war chest’ I keep hearing about year after year...

[saintkid]

I cant believe Billings let us down so badly - he must be scapegoated

He is the one we must blame for our 2pts loss to a 95% full strength Top 2 Bears (missing Rich) at the GABBA where they have won 14 out of there last 16 games.

Jacks a nice fella but absolutely replaceable

Only 2 players above JB who are in the Top 25 in the league for Disposals and have kicked more goals

Lachie Neale 11 goals
Sam Menagola 11 goals
Billings 10 Goals
Petracca 9 goals
Bont 8 goals

Replace away

All of those players can win a clearance....what’s Jack missing ???
Based on your numbers he’s better than the Bont!!!
Should be a straight swap for Kelly then cause Jacks kicked more goals....lol

Bont averages 5 clearances a game - Billings 2 (without playing at the coalface) - so less than 1 more per quarter

Petracca 3.8 - Menegola 2.3

Neale 5.6 - but he is the hottest Brownlow favourite in years

I thought you didn’t like averages?????
Bonts had 65 clearances
Jack 27

But again he’s a modern mid...

Billings does get a lot of the ball, and this is a plus but his high possession count is often inflated by receiving return handballs. He does have a good looking style on his left boot and he can kick distance, but he too often misses targets. He is at his best when he is after the contested ball, and his final quarter goal was sensational. More often than not though, he is an outside receiver. He is not often given a tag, which likely reflects how other coaches rate him. I doubt other teams would pay near the 800k that we reportedly do.

Well said I agree
He’s not gonna get 800 at Cats
He’s not tagged that’s rubbish he’s an outside who often when things are tough you have to look around the park to see if he’s still there
No disrespect there many players do that
We just need gun mids and he could be useful to get us one

I agree also with these two comments.

[whiskers3614]

Billings has had a very consistent year, he is not the problem, would be top 5 in the b&f this year.

Managed to turn his game around yesterday and was nearly the difference in the last quarter. Maybe the coach needed to pull the trigger earlier, who knows.

Agreed.

Good player and certainly fits the build for what we need more of. He and Hill and are no doubt the 2 of the main focal points for opposition coaches to target.

Both are very damaging when they are able to accumulate possessions.

Obviously JB was beaten for 3/4 yesterday but as Dud says, has been good this year. Certainly not the problem.

It’s not about him being the problem it’s about need
You simply have to give up something to get A grade quality
What are we offering - Geary?
FFS Billings is replaceable

If you’re looking at it like that I’d say there are very few in the team who aren’t replaceable

Ofcourse I agree few off limits
So which one goes that doesn’t hurt us to much but would yield interest????
Not Savage....
Hi Jack !
We could be real close with this side with a stronger mid taking advantage of excellent Ruckwork
We need to be brave or we’ll end up mid table

Preferably I’d like to go the free agency route, spend some of this ‘war chest’ I keep hearing about year after year...

Is that the war chest that's been pissed up on the 2 mercenaries the last 2 years?

[The_Dud]

Billings has had a very consistent year, he is not the problem, would be top 5 in the b&f this year.

Managed to turn his game around yesterday and was nearly the difference in the last quarter. Maybe the coach needed to pull the trigger earlier, who knows.

Agreed.

Good player and certainly fits the build for what we need more of. He and Hill and are no doubt the 2 of the main focal points for opposition coaches to target.

Both are very damaging when they are able to accumulate possessions.

Obviously JB was beaten for 3/4 yesterday but as Dud says, has been good this year. Certainly not the problem.

It’s not about him being the problem it’s about need
You simply have to give up something to get A grade quality
What are we offering - Geary?
FFS Billings is replaceable

If you’re looking at it like that I’d say there are very few in the team who aren’t replaceable

Ofcourse I agree few off limits
So which one goes that doesn’t hurt us to much but would yield interest????
Not Savage....
Hi Jack !
We could be real close with this side with a stronger mid taking advantage of excellent Ruckwork
We need to be brave or we’ll end up mid table

Preferably I’d like to go the free agency route, spend some of this ‘war chest’ I keep hearing about year after year...

Is that the war chest that's been pissed up on the 2 mercenaries the last 2 years?

Possibly!

[Devilhead]

Stats are always interesting
Have a guess how many goals Jacks kicked against
Cats
Tigers
Power
Pies
Lions ??????

1.
Anyone for some downhill skiing?

Yes stats are-

Billings had 25 possessions v Richmond & 22 against Port - above his average - we won both games

He had 17 & 1 goal against the Cats on a down day for the whole team

Lions 15 and should have had 2 goals were it not for Dim Tim stopping him on the goal line

He had a filthy game vs the Pies as did the whole team

All probably while trying to shake a hard tag

Billings ain't the problem and trading him away won't fix it

You pointed to his goals?
I just pointed out he doesn’t get them against good sides when it matters - see Sunday
Absolutely replaceable

So when you say "see Sunday" you mean the miraculous goal he kicked in the last and also the 99% JB goal that Membrey inexplicably stopped on the goal line ...... ok then

[Devilhead]

You told me it’s a modern game so Billings is a modern mid...except he doesn’t get clearances?
I’m confused on the mid bit
He’s a good wing/HF but we need mids
Trade away for mine

You are continually sidestepping the fact that Billings is currently top 25 in the league for disposals with 70% efficiency rating and from those select players sits equal 3rd for goals kicked

Go on ...... ignore this fact again ........ and again ......... and again .........

[skeptic]

To be honest... I’d be thrilled if we could add another Billings and another Hill to the team and have 4 players that could tear opposition apart in a quarter dividing the opposition’s focus.

IMO we don’t have enough of that type of player and you can’t get more of it by trading out what you do have