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Yes, but let's not bring facts into a good old fashioned racist campaign. "White" men and women never "agitate" for things that are important to them, at least in public - unless they buy a media outlet of course.
Yep.
Girl and mum hunted down by the media pack led by Channel 9 and asked to comment on something that was done and dusted 2 years ago. They reflected and with the passage of time forgot what actually happened and thought that they were the ones hard done by..."First on NINE" had its Thursday night lead story.
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
markp wrote:I think it's funny that people can assign a definitive reason for everyone booing goodes (on either 'side') and then argue over it's validity.
I thought they were all booing because they were blatantly racist anyway, not because they are under a misapprehension.
No they are booing because he dove for a free in 08, mildly tripped Josh Gibson in 2012 and the big one, he just isn't a 'good bloke.'
Apparently it is his personality that a few thousand strangers (all of who are just terrific people themselves according to their own objective view), have subjectively decided as one, that he just doesn't live up to their lofty standards of 'good blokedom,' and thus deserves weekly booing, and the occasional racist taunt thrown in 'just for old times sake.'
markp wrote:I think it's funny that people can assign a definitive reason for everyone booing goodes (on either 'side') and then argue over it's validity.
I thought they were all booing because they were blatantly racist anyway, not because they are under a misapprehension.
No they are booing because he dove for a free in 08, mildly tripped Josh Gibson in 2012 and the big one, he just isn't a 'good bloke.'
Apparently it is his personality that a few thousand strangers (all just just terrific people themselves according to their own objective view), have subjectively decided as one, that he just doesn't live up to their lofty standards of 'good blokedom' and thus deserves weekly booing and the occasional racist taunt thrown in 'just for old times sake.'
Hey all, sorry if this has already been posted... Didn't want to go through all 28 pages. Saw this on FB, worth a read
This is Adam Goodes. If you're not Australian, you've probably never heard of him, but he's one of the most accomplished football players in the Australian Football League. He's twice won the Brownlow Medal, which is the award given to the best and fairest player in the league at the close of each season. He's also won two AFL Premierships with his football club, the Sydney Swans. In 2014, Goodes was awarded the prestigious Australian of the Year award, which recognises outstanding contributions to Australian communities and culture, or individual achievements. Its recipients epitomise the Australian ideals, and serve as role models for the rest of their countrymen.
So Adam Goodes sounds like a really terrible guy, right? Well, if recent history were taken into account, one would certainly think so. Earlier this year, during the AFL's Indigenous Round, which is dedicated to recognising and celebrating Australian Indigenous culture in football, Goodes performed an Aboriginal war dance after kicking a goal for his side. After booting the goal, he danced toward the stands, which happened to be filled with supporters of the opposing club, and simulated what some considered to be "threatening" gestures, including throwing an imaginary spear. Goodes was immediately subjected to a barrage of hateful ridicule, and has been vehemently "booed" by football crowds in every game since.
So here we have one of the greatest champions of this quintessentially Australian sport, twice the recipient of its highest honour, and once the recipient of one of the nation's highest honours, being subjected week after week to the hateful heckling of hideous throngs of footy-goers. And why? Well, that depends on whom you ask.
One of the biggest social debates in Australia right now is whether the incessant booing of Adam Goodes is racially motivated, or whether the crowds are booing him for other reasons. And this is where Australian political and cultural history comes squarely into play.
See, unlike its close neighbour New Zealand, Australia's Caucasian settlers didn't blend in peacefully with the indigenous locals. Rather, they culled them, killed them, sometimes by the thousands, stole their land, stole their livelihoods, and even stole their children. For 200 years after settlement, they subjugated the Aboriginals, denying them basic human rights (indeed, even outrightly denying that they were human at all until the mid-twentieth century), and relegating them to lives of impoverished insignificance. The wrongs that the white Australian has committed to its indigenous ancestors are many and harrowing. Those wrongs are also something that the white Australian public takes great discomfort in acknowledging. And this is where Adam Goodes danced himself into their bad graces.
Adam Goodes is an indigenous leader, and a well-respected role model for the wider Aboriginal community. He is also an outspoken advocate for Aboriginal rights, and does not shy away from calling attention to the social inequalities of modern Australian society. When he received his 2014 Australian of the Year award, he used the platform to call attention to social injustices directed toward his people. Naturally, this didn't sit well with the white majority. Throw in a blatantly Aboriginal goal celebration during an AFL game, and the man who should be a hero is suddenly vilified.
I've lived in Australia for ten years now as an American expat. One thing I've learned about my adopted home is its problem with racism is similar in many ways to America's problem with guns: it is so endemic and culturally ingrained, that its perpetrators and propagators can't even see that it's a problem. This is the root of the Adam Goodes controversy.
It is a fact that Adam Goodes gets booed horrendously at football games because of his race. It is also a fact that many people out there who boo Adam Goodes are not doing it with the intention of racially vilifying him. While these two facts seem diametrically opposed, they can coexist. However, the people booing at these football games need to understand that, irrespective of their intentions, they are contributing to racial vilification nonetheless.
Goodes was never booed before the Indigenous Round this year (no more than any other player at different times of the game, that is). His post-goal war dance brought it on, and the booing is now incessant. It sustains through the entire game every week, and every time he touches the ball. Some people say they boo him because of his style of play: he's flamboyant, he "stages" for free kicks, and let's not forget that he celebrates goals in an indigenous manner during rounds specifically set out to celebrate indigenous culture. In Aussie terms, they boo him because "he's a flog". But the game is rife with players who do exactly these things, and those players don't get booed. Hayden Ballantyne of the Fremantle Dockers is one of the most hated football players in the entire AFL, and he doesn't get booed. Joel Selwood, Brent Harvey, Jack Riewoldt, Luke Hodge, Dustin Martin, none of them get booed either despite displaying the same sort of antics on a regular basis. Why do you suppose that is?
Some say they boo him because of an incident in 2013 when he had a 13 year-old girl ejected from an AFL match after she called him an "ape" from the crowd. They say he shouldn't have singled her out that way, and that his reaction was overly harsh and unfair to such a young girl. Now, leaving aside the fact that this kind of victim-blaming is akin to shaming a rape victim for wearing revealing clothing or drinking alcohol or, you know, walking home, this argument is also BS. Firstly, that girl needed to be taught a lesson that her parents clearly weren't teaching her at home. Secondly, Goodes was not booed for the remainder of the 2013 season or the 2014 season. He was only booed after performing his war dance early in 2015. So this argument, again, holds no water.
I'm not trying to be cute, but this issue is pretty black and white. Goodes didn't get booed before he did the Aboriginal war dance. He's been booed in every game since. So any argument that his booing has to do with anything other than race is false and pathetic.
Australia, you have a problem with racism. A big one. And it runs deep. The problem with racists is that they genuinely don't believe themselves to be racists. During round 17 of the AFL fixture, a fan supporting the West Coast Eagles was ejected from Domain Stadium in Perth for yelling at Goodes to "go back to the zoo". Upon being questioned about the incident, the fan defended his actions as being part and parcel of the game. He genuinely believed that what he said wasn't racist in any way, but rather, he'd been singled out by the political correctness police. And this is why racism is such a deep-rooted problem. People seem to think that unless they're blatantly shouting "nigger" or "coon", they have carte blanche to say anything else that comes to mind. But you don't. Take a good, hard look at yourselves, Australia. Before you can start to fix a problem, you first need to admit that you have one. And a nation that based its foreign policy on a near century-long program literally called "White Australia" certainly has to own up to it.
Some people may genuinely boo Goodes for reasons other than his race. Some may find it part of the fun of being in the crowd and joining in a movement against a star player of an opposing team. But those people must acknowledge that, regardless of their intent, they are propagating an act that is rooted in the racial vilification of another human being. It's not okay. It's not all in good fun. It's not part of the game. And yes, you are contributing to racism
was at an Emperor's Cup Final in Tokyo in 2005 (Japanese J-League Grand Final). One of the two sides wore red, white and black (Urawa Reds), the other side wore yellow and blue (like the Eagles). Our seats were in the Urawa Reds section because obviously I was siding with them. But it was certainly an eye opener - before the final started the players details flashed up on the scoreboard, and every player of Korean heritage (even those who were basically Japanese) were soundly booed. And when the game started, every time a Korean player went anywhere near the ball, they really copped it.
I was there with an English bloke (6 foot 5) and my wife, who was heavily pregnant and is tall for a Japanese woman (same height as me five nine and a half) - Korean women are usually taller than Japanese so they assumed she must be Korean to have anything to do with a 'gaijin'. During half time she left to go and get something and supporters around us were speculating about her lineage (I speak Japanese, but I'm not Asian), and then when she spoke Japanese to us, they actually said things like 'she's Japanese' in an incredulous tone.
My kids went back with her to stay with relos recently and when they were at school, all the older kids would stare into their classrooms at the 'halfies'.
It has certainly given me pause to reflect on what it means to be a minority in the world and unless you have experienced it you don't know what it is like.
Last edited by samuraisaint on Sat 01 Aug 2015 10:55pm, edited 1 time in total.
markp wrote:I think it's funny that people can assign a definitive reason for everyone booing goodes (on either 'side') and then argue over it's validity.
I thought they were all booing because they were blatantly racist anyway, not because they are under a misapprehension.
No they are booing because he dove for a free in 08, mildly tripped Josh Gibson in 2012 and the big one, he just isn't a 'good bloke.'
Apparently it is his personality that a few thousand strangers (all just just terrific people themselves according to their own objective view), have subjectively decided as one, that he just doesn't live up to their lofty standards of 'good blokedom' and thus deserves weekly booing and the occasional racist taunt thrown in 'just for old times sake.'
skeptic wrote:Hey all, sorry if this has already been posted... Didn't want to go through all 28 pages. Saw this on FB, worth a read
This is Adam Goodes. If you're not Australian, you've probably never heard of him, but he's one of the most accomplished football players in the Australian Football League. He's twice won the Brownlow Medal, which is the award given to the best and fairest player in the league at the close of each season. He's also won two AFL Premierships with his football club, the Sydney Swans. In 2014, Goodes was awarded the prestigious Australian of the Year award, which recognises outstanding contributions to Australian communities and culture, or individual achievements. Its recipients epitomise the Australian ideals, and serve as role models for the rest of their countrymen.
So Adam Goodes sounds like a really terrible guy, right? Well, if recent history were taken into account, one would certainly think so. Earlier this year, during the AFL's Indigenous Round, which is dedicated to recognising and celebrating Australian Indigenous culture in football, Goodes performed an Aboriginal war dance after kicking a goal for his side. After booting the goal, he danced toward the stands, which happened to be filled with supporters of the opposing club, and simulated what some considered to be "threatening" gestures, including throwing an imaginary spear. Goodes was immediately subjected to a barrage of hateful ridicule, and has been vehemently "booed" by football crowds in every game since.
So here we have one of the greatest champions of this quintessentially Australian sport, twice the recipient of its highest honour, and once the recipient of one of the nation's highest honours, being subjected week after week to the hateful heckling of hideous throngs of footy-goers. And why? Well, that depends on whom you ask.
One of the biggest social debates in Australia right now is whether the incessant booing of Adam Goodes is racially motivated, or whether the crowds are booing him for other reasons. And this is where Australian political and cultural history comes squarely into play.
See, unlike its close neighbour New Zealand, Australia's Caucasian settlers didn't blend in peacefully with the indigenous locals. Rather, they culled them, killed them, sometimes by the thousands, stole their land, stole their livelihoods, and even stole their children. For 200 years after settlement, they subjugated the Aboriginals, denying them basic human rights (indeed, even outrightly denying that they were human at all until the mid-twentieth century), and relegating them to lives of impoverished insignificance. The wrongs that the white Australian has committed to its indigenous ancestors are many and harrowing. Those wrongs are also something that the white Australian public takes great discomfort in acknowledging. And this is where Adam Goodes danced himself into their bad graces.
Adam Goodes is an indigenous leader, and a well-respected role model for the wider Aboriginal community. He is also an outspoken advocate for Aboriginal rights, and does not shy away from calling attention to the social inequalities of modern Australian society. When he received his 2014 Australian of the Year award, he used the platform to call attention to social injustices directed toward his people. Naturally, this didn't sit well with the white majority. Throw in a blatantly Aboriginal goal celebration during an AFL game, and the man who should be a hero is suddenly vilified.
I've lived in Australia for ten years now as an American expat. One thing I've learned about my adopted home is its problem with racism is similar in many ways to America's problem with guns: it is so endemic and culturally ingrained, that its perpetrators and propagators can't even see that it's a problem. This is the root of the Adam Goodes controversy.
It is a fact that Adam Goodes gets booed horrendously at football games because of his race. It is also a fact that many people out there who boo Adam Goodes are not doing it with the intention of racially vilifying him. While these two facts seem diametrically opposed, they can coexist. However, the people booing at these football games need to understand that, irrespective of their intentions, they are contributing to racial vilification nonetheless.
Goodes was never booed before the Indigenous Round this year (no more than any other player at different times of the game, that is). His post-goal war dance brought it on, and the booing is now incessant. It sustains through the entire game every week, and every time he touches the ball. Some people say they boo him because of his style of play: he's flamboyant, he "stages" for free kicks, and let's not forget that he celebrates goals in an indigenous manner during rounds specifically set out to celebrate indigenous culture. In Aussie terms, they boo him because "he's a flog". But the game is rife with players who do exactly these things, and those players don't get booed. Hayden Ballantyne of the Fremantle Dockers is one of the most hated football players in the entire AFL, and he doesn't get booed. Joel Selwood, Brent Harvey, Jack Riewoldt, Luke Hodge, Dustin Martin, none of them get booed either despite displaying the same sort of antics on a regular basis. Why do you suppose that is?
Some say they boo him because of an incident in 2013 when he had a 13 year-old girl ejected from an AFL match after she called him an "ape" from the crowd. They say he shouldn't have singled her out that way, and that his reaction was overly harsh and unfair to such a young girl. Now, leaving aside the fact that this kind of victim-blaming is akin to shaming a rape victim for wearing revealing clothing or drinking alcohol or, you know, walking home, this argument is also BS. Firstly, that girl needed to be taught a lesson that her parents clearly weren't teaching her at home. Secondly, Goodes was not booed for the remainder of the 2013 season or the 2014 season. He was only booed after performing his war dance early in 2015. So this argument, again, holds no water.
I'm not trying to be cute, but this issue is pretty black and white. Goodes didn't get booed before he did the Aboriginal war dance. He's been booed in every game since. So any argument that his booing has to do with anything other than race is false and pathetic.
Australia, you have a problem with racism. A big one. And it runs deep. The problem with racists is that they genuinely don't believe themselves to be racists. During round 17 of the AFL fixture, a fan supporting the West Coast Eagles was ejected from Domain Stadium in Perth for yelling at Goodes to "go back to the zoo". Upon being questioned about the incident, the fan defended his actions as being part and parcel of the game. He genuinely believed that what he said wasn't racist in any way, but rather, he'd been singled out by the political correctness police. And this is why racism is such a deep-rooted problem. People seem to think that unless they're blatantly shouting "nigger" or "coon", they have carte blanche to say anything else that comes to mind. But you don't. Take a good, hard look at yourselves, Australia. Before you can start to fix a problem, you first need to admit that you have one. And a nation that based its foreign policy on a near century-long program literally called "White Australia" certainly has to own up to it.
Some people may genuinely boo Goodes for reasons other than his race. Some may find it part of the fun of being in the crowd and joining in a movement against a star player of an opposing team. But those people must acknowledge that, regardless of their intent, they are propagating an act that is rooted in the racial vilification of another human being. It's not okay. It's not all in good fun. It's not part of the game. And yes, you are contributing to racism
Haven't always agreed with you Skeptic, but I agree with you here. Well said and Kudos mate. Like.
samuraisaint wrote:was at an Emperor's Cup Final in Tokyo in 2005 (Japanese J-League Grand Final). One of the two sides wore red, white and black (Urawa Reds), the other side wore yellow and blue (like the Eagles). Our seats were in the Urawa Reds section because obviously I was siding with them. But it was certainly an eye opener - before the final started the players details flashed up on the scoreboard, and every player of Korean heritage (even those who were basically Japanese) were soundly booed. And when the game started, every time a Korean player went anywhere near the ball, they really copped it.
I was there with an English bloke (6 foot 5) and my wife, who is tall for a Japanese woman (same height as me five nine and a half) - Korean women are usually taller than Japanese so they assumed she must be Korean to have anything to do with a 'gaijin'. During half time she left to go and get something and supporters around us were speculating about her lineage (I speak Japanese, but I'm not Asian), and then when she spoke Japanese to us, they actually said things like 'she's Japanese' in an incredulous tone.
My kids went back with her to stay with relos recently and when they were at school, all the older kids would stare into their classrooms at the 'halfies'.
It has certainly given me pause to reflect on what it means to be a minority in the world and unless you have experienced it you don't know what it is like.
The Japanese are the most racist people I have ever come across.
A gaijin is generally treated very poorly. Japanese will move places in a train or bar if a gaijin sits near them.
Puts a hole in the groupthink baying hectoring hypocrites who point fingers only at white people.
Get the crap out of your eyes, or better still travel out of Australia occasionally.
saintbrat wrote: I have endeavored to find a clear view of this-- but I still have an emotional reaction to a war dance directed at football fans with spear throwing- when flipping the bird in the same direction would get a 'please explain'
The Rosie Parks analogy was a pretty good one, don't you think StB?
I agree with you about the war dance, and I"m also uncomfortable with the pointing-out of the young girl. But given the incredible hurt (that I can only assume) this whole racism thing is causing Goodes, I'm prepared to cut him some slack for not handling things 'optimally'. (And he'd be in a pretty big club there too. I'm a member. Ironically, I could probably run for president or CEO or something. )
And with the young girl, I think we could all thank superduper, who really is super, for his/her(?) post.
SuperDuper wrote:The worst excuse is the 13 year old girl one..
The girl repeatedly called him an ape. 13 year olds are fully aware of what racism is, and are fully aware not to call aboriginals apes..
Now, I agree with Goodes, most of the responsibility lies with the parents, and the adults around her... what Goodes said in the interview was spot on... and he DID NOT PUT THE BLAME ON THE GIRL
people keep using this quote:
"Racism had a face...and it was a 13-year-old girl"
without quoting the next sentences...
“To be able to make a stand myself and say ‘racism has a face’ last night and, you know, it was a 13-year-old girl but it’s not her fault. She's 13, she's still so innocent, I don’t put any blame on her. Unfortunately it’s what she hears, the environment she’s grown up in that has made her think it’s okay to call people names. I can guarantee you right now she would have no idea, you know, how it makes anyone feel by calling them an ape … But I think the person that needs the most support is the little girl, you know. People need to get around her, she's 13, she’s uneducated.”
he also said later
"I've had fantastic support over the past 24 hours,' Goodes said.
'I just hope that people give the 13-year-old girl the same sort of support because she needs it, her family needs it, and the people around them need it.
'It's not a witch-hunt, I don't want people to go after this young girl.
'We've just got to help educate society better so it doesn't happen again.'
Now, for the mother of this girl to be still moaning about Goodes, and asking him to apolgise.. is unbelievable
And for people to justify boo-ing Goodes due to this incident.. well what a joke
That piece pretty well deconstructs all the 'bullying/child abuse/(and even! ) paedophilia' insinuations.
Somewhat ironically, it was probably the AFL and police powers-that-be who over-reacted, by detaining and questioning the girl, and without an adult present too! I doubt that Goodes would have dreamed that would have happened to her, let alone wanted it to.
Ok, that was less light-hearted, but it was still intended as friendly. So please, don't ban me Mods!
Last edited by Joffabouy on Sat 01 Aug 2015 11:08pm, edited 1 time in total.
Joffabouy - a unique entity, a friendly and light-hearted poster, a Saint's tragic. Wishing to chat about all things Saints, and to encourage people to consume more Tarax. https://youtu.be/LWqGI98MNyc
SuperDuper wrote:The worst excuse is the 13 year old girl one..
The girl repeatedly called him an ape. 13 year olds are fully aware of what racism is, and are fully aware not to call aboriginals apes..
Now, I agree with Goodes, most of the responsibility lies with the parents, and the adults around her... what Goodes said in the interview was spot on... and he DID NOT PUT THE BLAME ON THE GIRL
people keep using this quote:
"Racism had a face...and it was a 13-year-old girl"
without quoting the next sentences...
“To be able to make a stand myself and say ‘racism has a face’ last night and, you know, it was a 13-year-old girl but it’s not her fault. She's 13, she's still so innocent, I don’t put any blame on her. Unfortunately it’s what she hears, the environment she’s grown up in that has made her think it’s okay to call people names. I can guarantee you right now she would have no idea, you know, how it makes anyone feel by calling them an ape … But I think the person that needs the most support is the little girl, you know. People need to get around her, she's 13, she’s uneducated.”
he also said later
"I've had fantastic support over the past 24 hours,' Goodes said.
'I just hope that people give the 13-year-old girl the same sort of support because she needs it, her family needs it, and the people around them need it.
'It's not a witch-hunt, I don't want people to go after this young girl.
'We've just got to help educate society better so it doesn't happen again.'
Well there you have it.
Anyone trying to use this incident as an excuse is seriously twisting the facts.
"But but but ummm, I booo him cos he he he dived for a free in 06!" Yeah yeah right.
SuperDuper wrote:The worst excuse is the 13 year old girl one..
The girl repeatedly called him an ape. 13 year olds are fully aware of what racism is, and are fully aware not to call aboriginals apes..
Now, I agree with Goodes, most of the responsibility lies with the parents, and the adults around her... what Goodes said in the interview was spot on... and he DID NOT PUT THE BLAME ON THE GIRL
people keep using this quote:
"Racism had a face...and it was a 13-year-old girl"
without quoting the next sentences...
“To be able to make a stand myself and say ‘racism has a face’ last night and, you know, it was a 13-year-old girl but it’s not her fault. She's 13, she's still so innocent, I don’t put any blame on her. Unfortunately it’s what she hears, the environment she’s grown up in that has made her think it’s okay to call people names. I can guarantee you right now she would have no idea, you know, how it makes anyone feel by calling them an ape … But I think the person that needs the most support is the little girl, you know. People need to get around her, she's 13, she’s uneducated.”
he also said later
"I've had fantastic support over the past 24 hours,' Goodes said.
'I just hope that people give the 13-year-old girl the same sort of support because she needs it, her family needs it, and the people around them need it.
'It's not a witch-hunt, I don't want people to go after this young girl.
'We've just got to help educate society better so it doesn't happen again.'
Well there you have it.
Anyone trying to use this incident as an excuse is seriously twisting the facts.
"But but but ummm, I booo him cos he he he dived for a free in 06!" Yeah yeah right.
Must be great to live in your simple world.
So he did not stand up on National tV and proclaim the face of racism is a 13 year old girl?
He grandstanded and uses her for political purposes.
and as markp said. Now do Schneider, you friend of humanity
your hectoring and screaming just shows your zealotry.
Just like the Swans chairman now equating booing with rape.
SuperDuper wrote:The worst excuse is the 13 year old girl one..
The girl repeatedly called him an ape. 13 year olds are fully aware of what racism is, and are fully aware not to call aboriginals apes..
Now, I agree with Goodes, most of the responsibility lies with the parents, and the adults around her... what Goodes said in the interview was spot on... and he DID NOT PUT THE BLAME ON THE GIRL
people keep using this quote:
"Racism had a face...and it was a 13-year-old girl"
without quoting the next sentences...
“To be able to make a stand myself and say ‘racism has a face’ last night and, you know, it was a 13-year-old girl but it’s not her fault. She's 13, she's still so innocent, I don’t put any blame on her. Unfortunately it’s what she hears, the environment she’s grown up in that has made her think it’s okay to call people names. I can guarantee you right now she would have no idea, you know, how it makes anyone feel by calling them an ape … But I think the person that needs the most support is the little girl, you know. People need to get around her, she's 13, she’s uneducated.”
he also said later
"I've had fantastic support over the past 24 hours,' Goodes said.
'I just hope that people give the 13-year-old girl the same sort of support because she needs it, her family needs it, and the people around them need it.
'It's not a witch-hunt, I don't want people to go after this young girl.
'We've just got to help educate society better so it doesn't happen again.'
Well there you have it.
Anyone trying to use this incident as an excuse is seriously twisting the facts.
"But but but ummm, I booo him cos he he he dived for a free in 06!" Yeah yeah right.
Must be great to live in your simple world.
So he did not stand up on National tV and proclaim the face of racism is a 13 year old girl?
He grandstanded and uses her for political purposes.
and as markp said. Now do Schneider, you friend of humanity
your hectoring and screaming just shows your zealotry.
Just like the Swans chairman now equating booing with rape.
the extremes know no bounds with your agenda.
Yes booing is just so complex. Maybe you should write a book on it.
I guess I just don't set such high standards for 'good blokiness' as some. Goodes seems ok to me.
Bunk_Moreland wrote:
So he did not stand up on National tV and proclaim the face of racism is a 13 year old girl?
.
Well no he didn't as a matter of fact. This is what he says:
“To be able to make a stand myself and say ‘racism has a face’ last night and, you know, it was a 13-year-old girl but it’s not her fault. She's 13, she's still so innocent, I don’t put any blame on her. Unfortunately it’s what she hears, the environment she’s grown up in that has made her think it’s okay to call people names. I can guarantee you right now she would have no idea, you know, how it makes anyone feel by calling them an ape … But I think the person that needs the most support is the little girl, you know. People need to get around her, she's 13, she’s uneducated.”
But I guess reading comprehension isnt your strong point.
It really isnt complicated. Just dont be a dick.
I love people thinking they are defending some precious right. the right to be an asshole? I am not sure what right people think they are defending. There is nothing even slightly complex about this.
Quantum mechanics is complex, as is pure mathematics, sending a satellite to land on a comet and the NASA pluto mission. Those are complex things involving humans. 'Booing' isnt one of them..
In any case - Adam had every right to call out this loud mouth little bogan for calling him an ape in his workplace (or any place). Just as you would have a right to confront some 13 yo kid if they rocked your car while you were driving to work. Its not on. I will not be conned by this argument to turn this girl into some beacon of light and purity. Do you honestly think anyone believes you seriously care about this girl and somehow that is what your 'stance' is about? I mean really? C'mon.You must think people are very gullible. I gather you are a foster parent and have adopted 20 or 30 kids from rough up-bringings? Seeing you are just SOOOOO concerned about this poor little delicate flower.
If you feel so strongly about your 'right to boo' then go to the footy in Rd 22 and boo Adam. Do it loud and do it proud. If its just sooooooo important to boo him. As i said I am too lazy to boo and rather get a hot dog and beer.
skeptic wrote:Hey all, sorry if this has already been posted... Didn't want to go through all 28 pages. Saw this on FB, worth a read
This is Adam Goodes. If you're not Australian, you've probably never heard of him, but he's one of the most accomplished football players in the Australian Football League. He's twice won the Brownlow Medal, which is the award given to the best and fairest player in the league at the close of each season. He's also won two AFL Premierships with his football club, the Sydney Swans. In 2014, Goodes was awarded the prestigious Australian of the Year award, which recognises outstanding contributions to Australian communities and culture, or individual achievements. Its recipients epitomise the Australian ideals, and serve as role models for the rest of their countrymen.
So Adam Goodes sounds like a really terrible guy, right? Well, if recent history were taken into account, one would certainly think so. Earlier this year, during the AFL's Indigenous Round, which is dedicated to recognising and celebrating Australian Indigenous culture in football, Goodes performed an Aboriginal war dance after kicking a goal for his side. After booting the goal, he danced toward the stands, which happened to be filled with supporters of the opposing club, and simulated what some considered to be "threatening" gestures, including throwing an imaginary spear. Goodes was immediately subjected to a barrage of hateful ridicule, and has been vehemently "booed" by football crowds in every game since.
So here we have one of the greatest champions of this quintessentially Australian sport, twice the recipient of its highest honour, and once the recipient of one of the nation's highest honours, being subjected week after week to the hateful heckling of hideous throngs of footy-goers. And why? Well, that depends on whom you ask.
One of the biggest social debates in Australia right now is whether the incessant booing of Adam Goodes is racially motivated, or whether the crowds are booing him for other reasons. And this is where Australian political and cultural history comes squarely into play.
See, unlike its close neighbour New Zealand, Australia's Caucasian settlers didn't blend in peacefully with the indigenous locals. Rather, they culled them, killed them, sometimes by the thousands, stole their land, stole their livelihoods, and even stole their children. For 200 years after settlement, they subjugated the Aboriginals, denying them basic human rights (indeed, even outrightly denying that they were human at all until the mid-twentieth century), and relegating them to lives of impoverished insignificance. The wrongs that the white Australian has committed to its indigenous ancestors are many and harrowing. Those wrongs are also something that the white Australian public takes great discomfort in acknowledging. And this is where Adam Goodes danced himself into their bad graces.
Adam Goodes is an indigenous leader, and a well-respected role model for the wider Aboriginal community. He is also an outspoken advocate for Aboriginal rights, and does not shy away from calling attention to the social inequalities of modern Australian society. When he received his 2014 Australian of the Year award, he used the platform to call attention to social injustices directed toward his people. Naturally, this didn't sit well with the white majority. Throw in a blatantly Aboriginal goal celebration during an AFL game, and the man who should be a hero is suddenly vilified.
I've lived in Australia for ten years now as an American expat. One thing I've learned about my adopted home is its problem with racism is similar in many ways to America's problem with guns: it is so endemic and culturally ingrained, that its perpetrators and propagators can't even see that it's a problem. This is the root of the Adam Goodes controversy.
It is a fact that Adam Goodes gets booed horrendously at football games because of his race. It is also a fact that many people out there who boo Adam Goodes are not doing it with the intention of racially vilifying him. While these two facts seem diametrically opposed, they can coexist. However, the people booing at these football games need to understand that, irrespective of their intentions, they are contributing to racial vilification nonetheless.
Goodes was never booed before the Indigenous Round this year (no more than any other player at different times of the game, that is). His post-goal war dance brought it on, and the booing is now incessant. It sustains through the entire game every week, and every time he touches the ball. Some people say they boo him because of his style of play: he's flamboyant, he "stages" for free kicks, and let's not forget that he celebrates goals in an indigenous manner during rounds specifically set out to celebrate indigenous culture. In Aussie terms, they boo him because "he's a flog". But the game is rife with players who do exactly these things, and those players don't get booed. Hayden Ballantyne of the Fremantle Dockers is one of the most hated football players in the entire AFL, and he doesn't get booed. Joel Selwood, Brent Harvey, Jack Riewoldt, Luke Hodge, Dustin Martin, none of them get booed either despite displaying the same sort of antics on a regular basis. Why do you suppose that is?
Some say they boo him because of an incident in 2013 when he had a 13 year-old girl ejected from an AFL match after she called him an "ape" from the crowd. They say he shouldn't have singled her out that way, and that his reaction was overly harsh and unfair to such a young girl. Now, leaving aside the fact that this kind of victim-blaming is akin to shaming a rape victim for wearing revealing clothing or drinking alcohol or, you know, walking home, this argument is also BS. Firstly, that girl needed to be taught a lesson that her parents clearly weren't teaching her at home. Secondly, Goodes was not booed for the remainder of the 2013 season or the 2014 season. He was only booed after performing his war dance early in 2015. So this argument, again, holds no water.
I'm not trying to be cute, but this issue is pretty black and white. Goodes didn't get booed before he did the Aboriginal war dance. He's been booed in every game since. So any argument that his booing has to do with anything other than race is false and pathetic.
Australia, you have a problem with racism. A big one. And it runs deep. The problem with racists is that they genuinely don't believe themselves to be racists. During round 17 of the AFL fixture, a fan supporting the West Coast Eagles was ejected from Domain Stadium in Perth for yelling at Goodes to "go back to the zoo". Upon being questioned about the incident, the fan defended his actions as being part and parcel of the game. He genuinely believed that what he said wasn't racist in any way, but rather, he'd been singled out by the political correctness police. And this is why racism is such a deep-rooted problem. People seem to think that unless they're blatantly shouting "nigger" or "coon", they have carte blanche to say anything else that comes to mind. But you don't. Take a good, hard look at yourselves, Australia. Before you can start to fix a problem, you first need to admit that you have one. And a nation that based its foreign policy on a near century-long program literally called "White Australia" certainly has to own up to it.
Some people may genuinely boo Goodes for reasons other than his race. Some may find it part of the fun of being in the crowd and joining in a movement against a star player of an opposing team. But those people must acknowledge that, regardless of their intent, they are propagating an act that is rooted in the racial vilification of another human being. It's not okay. It's not all in good fun. It's not part of the game. And yes, you are contributing to racism
Wrong! As I was trying to get across on my earlier post, the booing started much earlier than the war dance and also before the 13 year old girl getting called the face of racism. But I agree that the booing has now gone over the top most likely because of those two things combined with his sniper past.
As ex-president Peter Summers said:
“If we are going to be a contender, we may as well plan to win the bloody thing.”
Goodes wasn’t booed on a mass scale after he did something dirty or got suspended. Goodes wasn’t booed after a run of dubious free kicks. Goodes wasn’t booed after his brownlow win. Can we dispense with the ducking and weaving and at least agree that there are a few clear incidents that kicked the whole thing off?
Goodes was booed after being racially abused by a young girl, and subsequently, after years of work with the indigenous communities around Australia, winning the Australian of the Year award and opening up some very serious, yet uncomfortable conversations about race.
SuperDuper wrote:The worst excuse is the 13 year old girl one..
The girl repeatedly called him an ape. 13 year olds are fully aware of what racism is, and are fully aware not to call aboriginals apes..
Now, I agree with Goodes, most of the responsibility lies with the parents, and the adults around her... what Goodes said in the interview was spot on... and he DID NOT PUT THE BLAME ON THE GIRL
people keep using this quote:
"Racism had a face...and it was a 13-year-old girl"
without quoting the next sentences...
“To be able to make a stand myself and say ‘racism has a face’ last night and, you know, it was a 13-year-old girl but it’s not her fault. She's 13, she's still so innocent, I don’t put any blame on her. Unfortunately it’s what she hears, the environment she’s grown up in that has made her think it’s okay to call people names. I can guarantee you right now she would have no idea, you know, how it makes anyone feel by calling them an ape … But I think the person that needs the most support is the little girl, you know. People need to get around her, she's 13, she’s uneducated.”
he also said later
"I've had fantastic support over the past 24 hours,' Goodes said.
'I just hope that people give the 13-year-old girl the same sort of support because she needs it, her family needs it, and the people around them need it.
'It's not a witch-hunt, I don't want people to go after this young girl.
'We've just got to help educate society better so it doesn't happen again.'
Well there you have it.
Anyone trying to use this incident as an excuse is seriously twisting the facts.
"But but but ummm, I booo him cos he he he dived for a free in 06!" Yeah yeah right.
Must be great to live in your simple world.
So he did not stand up on National tV and proclaim the face of racism is a 13 year old girl?
He grandstanded and uses her for political purposes.
Can you read???
you are simply quoting him out of context, without reading the totality of his comments.. which can only be confirmation bias
You mase up your mind about what he said, I guess you probably did not even do that, you let Andrew Bolt or someone like that make your mind up for you.. and ignore the facts which are almost the complete opposite in terms of message conveyed
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) paedophilia' insinuations.
