Channel 9 News...

[Leo.J]

This story is still not being mentioned by the credible news outlets.

If anyone of you guys that have been complaining about this story either buy the HS or support CH9 in any way you should be ashamed of yourselves.

[markinUSA]

Michelle,
You are right on the money here. The sexual moralizing/editorializing is very dangerous; the whole approach reduces sexual ethics and human behavior into a simplistic good/bad binary; and the language is sexist and masculinist (e.g. even for the seemingly acceptable term, WAG, there are no MAGs). There are a lot more problems with it, but... frankly, it's just very poor.
Cheers
Mark

[Q5]

Michelle,
You are right on the money here. The sexual moralizing/editorializing is very dangerous; the whole approach reduces sexual ethics and human behavior into a simplistic good/bad binary; and the language is sexist and masculinist (e.g. even for the seemingly acceptable term, WAG, there are no MAGs). There are a lot more problems with it, but... frankly, it's just very poor.
Cheers
Mark

That's because (in most cases) they would be MABs...

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

, I just want JUSTICE,.

what do you mean by that?????.......what exactly do you want...????...and tell me.......why does what you want have anything to do with this case ....???

It means if he did it, I want justice. ie, if he did it then I'd probably want him out of the club, etc. as happened to Lovett and if he didn't, then that's f****** awesome. How hard is that to work out? What do you want? Or does being a member of this club, as I presume you are, mean you have no say whatsoever?

Hey look, I can do this rolling eyes thing too. Wow, I'm now really special, like you.

[cowboy18]

Michelle,
You are right on the money here. The sexual moralizing/editorializing is very dangerous; the whole approach reduces sexual ethics and human behavior into a simplistic good/bad binary; and the language is sexist and masculinist (e.g. even for the seemingly acceptable term, WAG, there are no MAGs). There are a lot more problems with it, but... frankly, it's just very poor.
Cheers
Mark

That's because (in most cases) they would be MABs...

I'd think HABs?

[bozza1980]

How did the Hun get so much detail about the case including witness statements? Did Gladman give this to the papers and if so, is that against the law?

Also, Damien Barrett said on the footy show tonight that the case had taken a big turn from an investigation about the Vic Police to an investigation about Steven Milne with a possible charge.

THey then went on to show footage of an interview with well known barrister Farris. He basically said that the case could be re opened if there was new evidence or evidence that was overlooked during the investigation.

Well excuse me but this is not a new development or news. Again, the are insinuating that Milne could be in trouble.... What an absolute joke...You really have to feel sorry for Steven Milne.

That is a ridiculous beat up.

This whistleblower cop has by his own admission stated that he prepared and presented the best possible submission to the OPP.

I'm glad I didn't watch the Footy Show, that is irresponsible journalism of the highest order.

At the end of the day unless there is something that the Herald Sun didn't report, as they splashed the case against Milne, in the paper this week, the chances of charges being laid would appear remote.

[saintspremiers]

No cover up on Milne: insider
PAUL MILLAR, MARK HAWTHORNE AND STEVE BUTCHER
June 24, 2010


A SEXUAL assault counsellor, who was called to an early morning meeting by St Kilda chiefs in 2004, says there was no cover up by the football club following an allegation of rape against Stephen Milne.

Loreen Visser, who had worked as a victim counsellor for the Western Region Centre Against Sexual Assault, told The Age she had been called to a 4am meeting of club chiefs following the allegations of a sexual assault.

Milne denies the allegation that he raped the woman at the home of teammate Leigh Montagna.
Advertisement: Story continues below
Stephen Milne at training yesterday.

Stephen Milne at training yesterday. Photo: Pat Scala

''I was in the thick of it that morning. I heard what those two players had to say for themselves. I heard them interviewed by lawyers and by senior club officials. I also saw the text messages on their phones. It is my belief that consensual sex took place, but no sexual assault happened,'' said Ms Visser. Authorities are considering re-opening the case following claims by police of interference and the leaking of victim statements.

Also at that early morning meeting called by St Kilda were former president Rod Butterss, then chief executive Brian Waldron, then coach Grant Thomas, club lawyer Ross Levin, media adviser Peter Maher and QC David Grace.

At the time, Ms Visser was employed by the club as a psychological performance coach.

She told The Age: ''I am a woman, and I am a feminist woman, and if I thought that any sexual assault had taken place, or that any cover up had occurred, I would speak out.

She said of Milne and Montagna: ''Those boys have been through enough. There was simply not enough evidence against them.''

Butterss said yesterday: ''I can categorically say that myself and no member of the St Kilda board saw any witness statements or any police documents. I can can say with confidence that the chief executive Brian Waldron wasn't privy to any such statements or documents.''

Corruption whistleblower Simon Illingworth said there was a feeling of mistrust among officers investigating the case.

He said his wife Sarah, who was working on the case in the Victims' Advisory Unit, was told not to share information with colleagues by former detective senior constable Scott Gladman. Mr Gladman claims that police had pressured him not to pursue the case against Milne and to ''make it go away''.

''She told me the police officer involved (Mr Gladman) would not converse with her in the office. He always wanted to talk to her in the street or in the carpark,'' Mr Illingworth said.

''It was clear that he did not trust the system.''

He also told her not to have any conversations about the case with any other detectives.

Milne and Montagna were interviewed by police but never charged on advice from the Director of Public Prosecutions.

Lawyer George Defteros, who acted for Milne at the time, yesterday told The Age the footballer had then co-operated fully with police.

But outspoken defender of women's rights, Phil Cleary, said the alleged victim had taken a brave step in going to the police.

He said said statistics and a deep prejudice in society against women culture had stacked the odds against her.

Mr Cleary spoke to the alleged victim and her mother about the claims after writing an article on ''footy's subculture of misogyny''.

''This case seems to give evidence to the veracity of this claim,'' he said. Victoria Police statistics show that, of the 1,543 alleged rapes recorded in 2008-09, 27 per cent of those complaints were withdrawn.

My wife has met Loreen, and speaks very highly of her as a no bullshyte type person that would see through any lies or coverups.

Enough for me.

[Moccha]

F*** Channel 9 and F*** the Herald Scum

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

What a pile of crap has been written on the first 5 pages of this thread (all I've gotten through so far). "This bloke is agenda driven" and all this talk of Collingwood and such incredible crap. You know him personally and are completely sure are you?
As for "why- now?" maybe it's been eating him up inside for 6 years (which may also answer the "why is he no longer in the force?" question). Maybe he was prompted by all the publicity over Milne's 200th the other day and decided enough was enough. So he would have probably contacted Channel 9 in the days after Milne's 200th and they would have investigated it for a few days and announced over the weekend that the story was going to be on the news last night. Surely you don't have to be a genius to work out that this could be exactly why it's come out now.
As for those who asked "why didn't he do anything about all this 6 years ago", maybe he wasn't strong/brave enough to. How hard would that be to work out?
I think you're all just firing shots at anyone and everyone you can, to avoid the question that's really eating away at you. Did they do it?

Wow, why don't you just convict and sentence them now then? What a jerk... A load of hypothetical nonsense which is all anti-St Kilda and pro-washed up cop hack. You a cop mate? Can't handle that the rife corruption of the force is being made public? I can make up bizarre scenarios as well...

If you say so. But I'm sure you're perfect in every way, are you? "Jerk". Wow. Do you want to tell me that to my face?
And I don't want to sentence them, I just want JUSTICE, which may not have occurred, but which many on here clearly don't seem to care too much about. Pretty much no-one was asking "did Milne actually do this and get away with it?", which I found staggering and pretty sickening. They were asking every other question under the sun and focusing on everything but that. As opposed to when Lovett was accused of something almost identical. Most seemingly wanted him out of here ASAP.
"Hypothetical nonsense" and "bizarre scenarios"? As opposed to all the stuff on this thread? So what I wrote is completely impossible and unlikely and all these "conspiracy theories" on here are more likely? That's hilarious. Imagine if this was a Collingwood site, or Richmond, or Carlton and you all happened to read it. You'd be laughing your heads off at what's been written, but because it's ours, it's suddenly all very plausible and likely and to some, certain.
And the same with the reporting by 9 and the HS. If this was a story about someone from Carlton or Essendon, or any other club but us, I bet probably NONE of you would be boycotting them, or writing to them, or getting your nickers in such a knot. Would you? It's almost certain that you'd be lapping it all up and calling the players accused "dirty dogs" and stuff like that.
And how is anything I wrote "anti-St Kilda". All I want is justice. How is that "anti- St Kilda"? I was just responding to what was being written here. So many making inflamed comments about those they don't know from Adam. Their comments are much more a reflection of who THEY are themselves, rather than someone else they've never met.
I support the club, but not at all costs and that sure as hell doesn't mean I support what everyone who follows them happens to think, or want, or that I support potential cover-ups, or having someone on board who may have gotten away with raping someone. Whether the case was thrown out, or not. If he knowingly stuck his finger in someone who he knew didn't realise it was him (which it seems she pretty clearly didn't) then I don't particularly want him at the club.
If any of this makes me a "jerk", then thanks for the compliment.

Very strong opinion for someone who cannot possibly have all the facts. The case was investigated and the result was no charges. Until anything more concrete than the innuendo we have had to put up with comes out I see no reason to believe anything different to the original outcome.

Do we need a witch hunt now? Perhaps justice has already been served.

Of course I don't have all the facts, but I'm not trying to pretend I do, am I? I was speaking hypothetically, while many others on here were making these outrageous statements as fact. I was just answering their questions of "why did he come out now"? etc with possible reasons. Is that OK with you? And you're damn right I have a very strong opinion if things are a certain way, but that's what I'm wanting to find out. No-one else seemed to want to find out if he actually did it, though, which is what I found so disturbing.
"The case was investigated and the result was no charges." doesn't mean anything, if the case was f***ed up. And the guy that was in charge of it says it was and I'm none of the stuff I've read on here, from those who are just guessing, has in any way made me think it wasn't. Everyone who I've read who has disparaged Gladman wouldn't know him from Adam, so I'm not stupid enough to take what they say about him as fact in any way, shape or form.
The simple fact is he could very well have done it and gotten away with it and no-one else on here seems to be concerned if that is the case. I sincerely hope it was an honest misunderstanding, but if it wasn't, as I said, I'd definitely want justice. Just as I do in the Lovett case. If anyone else has a problem with that they'd have to be out of their mind to think I care in the slightest.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

No cover up on Milne: insider
PAUL MILLAR, MARK HAWTHORNE AND STEVE BUTCHER
June 24, 2010


A SEXUAL assault counsellor, who was called to an early morning meeting by St Kilda chiefs in 2004, says there was no cover up by the football club following an allegation of rape against Stephen Milne.

Loreen Visser, who had worked as a victim counsellor for the Western Region Centre Against Sexual Assault, told The Age she had been called to a 4am meeting of club chiefs following the allegations of a sexual assault.

Milne denies the allegation that he raped the woman at the home of teammate Leigh Montagna.
Advertisement: Story continues below
Stephen Milne at training yesterday.

Stephen Milne at training yesterday. Photo: Pat Scala

''I was in the thick of it that morning. I heard what those two players had to say for themselves. I heard them interviewed by lawyers and by senior club officials. I also saw the text messages on their phones. It is my belief that consensual sex took place, but no sexual assault happened,'' said Ms Visser. Authorities are considering re-opening the case following claims by police of interference and the leaking of victim statements.

Also at that early morning meeting called by St Kilda were former president Rod Butterss, then chief executive Brian Waldron, then coach Grant Thomas, club lawyer Ross Levin, media adviser Peter Maher and QC David Grace.

At the time, Ms Visser was employed by the club as a psychological performance coach.

She told The Age: ''I am a woman, and I am a feminist woman, and if I thought that any sexual assault had taken place, or that any cover up had occurred, I would speak out.

She said of Milne and Montagna: ''Those boys have been through enough. There was simply not enough evidence against them.''

Butterss said yesterday: ''I can categorically say that myself and no member of the St Kilda board saw any witness statements or any police documents. I can can say with confidence that the chief executive Brian Waldron wasn't privy to any such statements or documents.''

Corruption whistleblower Simon Illingworth said there was a feeling of mistrust among officers investigating the case.

He said his wife Sarah, who was working on the case in the Victims' Advisory Unit, was told not to share information with colleagues by former detective senior constable Scott Gladman. Mr Gladman claims that police had pressured him not to pursue the case against Milne and to ''make it go away''.

''She told me the police officer involved (Mr Gladman) would not converse with her in the office. He always wanted to talk to her in the street or in the carpark,'' Mr Illingworth said.

''It was clear that he did not trust the system.''

He also told her not to have any conversations about the case with any other detectives.

Milne and Montagna were interviewed by police but never charged on advice from the Director of Public Prosecutions.

Lawyer George Defteros, who acted for Milne at the time, yesterday told The Age the footballer had then co-operated fully with police.

But outspoken defender of women's rights, Phil Cleary, said the alleged victim had taken a brave step in going to the police.

He said said statistics and a deep prejudice in society against women culture had stacked the odds against her.

Mr Cleary spoke to the alleged victim and her mother about the claims after writing an article on ''footy's subculture of misogyny''.

''This case seems to give evidence to the veracity of this claim,'' he said. Victoria Police statistics show that, of the 1,543 alleged rapes recorded in 2008-09, 27 per cent of those complaints were withdrawn.

My wife has met Loreen, and speaks very highly of her as a no bullshyte type person that would see through any lies or coverups.

Enough for me.

Even though she only heard one side of the story?
Did she hear from the girl, or her friend? Or are you seriously telling us you only need to hear one side of a story to come to an accurate conclusion?

[GoTheTorp]

What a pile of crap has been written on the first 5 pages of this thread (all I've gotten through so far). "This bloke is agenda driven" and all this talk of Collingwood and such incredible crap. You know him personally and are completely sure are you?
As for "why- now?" maybe it's been eating him up inside for 6 years (which may also answer the "why is he no longer in the force?" question). Maybe he was prompted by all the publicity over Milne's 200th the other day and decided enough was enough. So he would have probably contacted Channel 9 in the days after Milne's 200th and they would have investigated it for a few days and announced over the weekend that the story was going to be on the news last night. Surely you don't have to be a genius to work out that this could be exactly why it's come out now.
As for those who asked "why didn't he do anything about all this 6 years ago", maybe he wasn't strong/brave enough to. How hard would that be to work out?
I think you're all just firing shots at anyone and everyone you can, to avoid the question that's really eating away at you. Did they do it?

Wow, why don't you just convict and sentence them now then? What a jerk... A load of hypothetical nonsense which is all anti-St Kilda and pro-washed up cop hack. You a cop mate? Can't handle that the rife corruption of the force is being made public? I can make up bizarre scenarios as well...

If you say so. But I'm sure you're perfect in every way, are you? "Jerk". Wow. Do you want to tell me that to my face?
And I don't want to sentence them, I just want JUSTICE, which may not have occurred, but which many on here clearly don't seem to care too much about. Pretty much no-one was asking "did Milne actually do this and get away with it?", which I found staggering and pretty sickening. They were asking every other question under the sun and focusing on everything but that. As opposed to when Lovett was accused of something almost identical. Most seemingly wanted him out of here ASAP.
"Hypothetical nonsense" and "bizarre scenarios"? As opposed to all the stuff on this thread? So what I wrote is completely impossible and unlikely and all these "conspiracy theories" on here are more likely? That's hilarious. Imagine if this was a Collingwood site, or Richmond, or Carlton and you all happened to read it. You'd be laughing your heads off at what's been written, but because it's ours, it's suddenly all very plausible and likely and to some, certain.
And the same with the reporting by 9 and the HS. If this was a story about someone from Carlton or Essendon, or any other club but us, I bet probably NONE of you would be boycotting them, or writing to them, or getting your nickers in such a knot. Would you? It's almost certain that you'd be lapping it all up and calling the players accused "dirty dogs" and stuff like that.
And how is anything I wrote "anti-St Kilda". All I want is justice. How is that "anti- St Kilda"? I was just responding to what was being written here. So many making inflamed comments about those they don't know from Adam. Their comments are much more a reflection of who THEY are themselves, rather than someone else they've never met.
I support the club, but not at all costs and that sure as hell doesn't mean I support what everyone who follows them happens to think, or want, or that I support potential cover-ups, or having someone on board who may have gotten away with raping someone. Whether the case was thrown out, or not. If he knowingly stuck his finger in someone who he knew didn't realise it was him (which it seems she pretty clearly didn't) then I don't particularly want him at the club.
If any of this makes me a "jerk", then thanks for the compliment.

Very strong opinion for someone who cannot possibly have all the facts. The case was investigated and the result was no charges. Until anything more concrete than the innuendo we have had to put up with comes out I see no reason to believe anything different to the original outcome.

Do we need a witch hunt now? Perhaps justice has already been served.

Of course I don't have all the facts, but I'm not trying to pretend I do, am I? I was speaking hypothetically, while many others on here were making these outrageous statements as fact. I was just answering their questions of "why did he come out now"? etc with possible reasons. Is that OK with you? And you're damn right I have a very strong opinion if things are a certain way, but that's what I'm wanting to find out. No-one else seemed to want to find out if he actually did it, though, which is what I found so disturbing.
"The case was investigated and the result was no charges." doesn't mean anything, if the case was f***ed up. And the guy that was in charge of it says it was and I'm none of the stuff I've read on here, from those who are just guessing, has in any way made me think it wasn't. Everyone who I've read who has disparaged Gladman wouldn't know him from Adam, so I'm not stupid enough to take what they say about him as fact in any way, shape or form.
The simple fact is he could very well have done it and gotten away with it and no-one else on here seems to be concerned if that is the case. I sincerely hope it was an honest misunderstanding, but if it wasn't, as I said, I'd definitely want justice. Just as I do in the Lovett case. If anyone else has a problem with that they'd have to be out of their mind to think I care in the slightest.

Innocent until proven guilty in acourt of law, hasnt even been charged with anything ever so your asssumptions are as bad as CH9 and the Hun.

Its better for you to have said nothing than to spruke tonnes of crap and yet have said nothing at all...........

[bozza1980]

Of course I don't have all the facts, but I'm not trying to pretend I do, am I? I was speaking hypothetically, while many others on here were making these outrageous statements as fact. I was just answering their questions of "why did he come out now"? etc with possible reasons. Is that OK with you? And you're damn right I have a very strong opinion if things are a certain way, but that's what I'm wanting to find out. No-one else seemed to want to find out if he actually did it, though, which is what I found so disturbing.
"The case was investigated and the result was no charges." doesn't mean anything, if the case was f***ed up. And the guy that was in charge of it says it was and I'm none of the stuff I've read on here, from those who are just guessing, has in any way made me think it wasn't. Everyone who I've read who has disparaged Gladman wouldn't know him from Adam, so I'm not stupid enough to take what they say about him as fact in any way, shape or form.
The simple fact is he could very well have done it and gotten away with it and no-one else on here seems to be concerned if that is the case. I sincerely hope it was an honest misunderstanding, but if it wasn't, as I said, I'd definitely want justice. Just as I do in the Lovett case. If anyone else has a problem with that they'd have to be out of their mind to think I care in the slightest.

Ofcourse, whether the person be a St Kilda player or anybody else we would like serious accusations like this investigated correctly.

The officer in charge of this case has stated categorically that he did so. He also claims that people tried to hinder him despite this he presented a case to the OPP that he felt warranted charges being laid.

Unfortunately the OPP, who he hasn't accused of improper behaviour, didn't agree with him and felt that the accusations were not substantiated enough to gain a conviction and decided not to lay charges.

Unless the Herald Sun neglected to mention any sordid details in the splashing out of the accusations in the paper during the week, you can understand the OPP's reluctance to lay charges.

In this country we believe a person is innocent until proven guilty, nothing in the stories this week suggest anything other than we have no idea what happened, as such, the presumption of innocence.

You are entitled to your opinion as much as anyone, I just think you require proof of his innocence, on all the evidence presented this week, you are never going to get this, just like you aren't going to get proof of his guilt.

At the end of the day how you want to process this deadlock in your mind is your business, but to suggest that to invoke the presumption of innocence is somehow being glib is off the mark.

[mullet]

COP THAT CHANEL NINE

AND STICK THAT ON THE FRONT PAGE HERALD SUN

STKILDA 10 10 70

GEELONG 6 10 46

[Stillwaiting]

COP THAT CHANEL NINE

AND STICK THAT ON THE FRONT PAGE HERALD SUN

STKILDA 10 10 70

GEELONG 6 10 46

They are not worthy

[SainterK]

Why I do not think the forum Gladman chose to express his concerns was a wise choice, I cannot overlook the fact that some very serious allegations have been made.

Everyone seems a little to quick to wash their hands of any involvement by St Kilda here, given that this investigator has since alleged that our club was made aware of witness statements within hours of them being made.

If the OPI finds any connection to St Kilda, this could still be very messy for our club.

The latest reports have been hinting at such a connection, so don't be too comfortable.

That's just it, SainterK. Whilst I have a fair idea about why the allegations were made and I wouldn't for a second water down the import of the allegations per se, the fact is they WERE investigated. By the detectives own admission the police brief was amazingly good apparently, some of their best work they reckon. The DPP, however, saw fit not to pursue the matter for the same kind of reasons they don't pursue plenty of cases - evidentiary blurriness (read between the lines of the account published), cost to taxpayers, resourcing. That's it. No more to it. Finito.

The simple truth of all this is that media outlets have had a swing and missed because they were punching at a figment of their own imagination.

I would like to say that we will now hear aggrieved ex coppers the nation over publicly airing their sour grapes over the cases they couldn't get up, but most cases don't involve sex and footballers so it ain't gonna happen.

Beat up. Always was, always will be.

Now confirmed that their was a Brighton police officer working at St Kilda during this time.

Going to be difficult given that nobody from the Waldron/Butters/Thomas era remains at the club, I'd say while co-operating with the police, the current St Kilda administration are probably learning much about this incident as it comes to light.

[Thinline]

Confirmed what and when? Link?

[SainterK]

Confirmed what and when? Link?

Reported on SEN, I think they may of been referring to a news release by Victoria police...Hans somebody?

[Mr Magic]

Was reported on 3AW about 11:30 this morning.

A sergeant from teh Brighton Police Station (at the time) was also a part time runner/trainer at Stkilda - named Harms???

Is currently a Senior Sergeant in teh Moorabbin Traffic department.

[SainterK]

Was reported on 3AW about 11:30 this morning.

A sergeant from teh Brighton Police Station (at the time) was also a part time runner/trainer at Stkilda - named Harms???

Is currently a Senior Sergeant in teh Moorabbin Traffic department.

It's this guy, allegedly...

http://www.roadsafe.org.au/index.php?op ... Itemid=116

[Joey]

Was reported on 3AW about 11:30 this morning.

A sergeant from teh Brighton Police Station (at the time) was also a part time runner/trainer at Stkilda - named Harms???

Is currently a Senior Sergeant in teh Moorabbin Traffic department.

It's this guy, allegedly...

http://www.roadsafe.org.au/index.php?op ... Itemid=116

Well it doesn't look like he's trying to hide it, its says he is/has been a trainer with the club for 11 years. Nothing in it in my opinion.

[Moods]

The inference is that Milne was privy to what the girls statement was before he was to be interviewed. It is rumour and not fact. If true, not very professional and the case would have been compromised in a very minor way.

Having said that, most records of interviews are deemed inadmissible at the highest level anyway and are struck out. All the record of interview is, is Milne's version of events. Every person has a right to know the nature of their allegations (maybe not before the interview)

The HUN and other media outlets are playing on the fact that most ppl wouldn't have the first clue about police procedure. Much of what they have reported sounds sinister, but is actually quite normal. Costs is always a factor with the OPP especially when weighed up against the strength of the case. The master tape going missing after 6 years is hardly royal commision stuff. I'm sure the OPP would have been curious where the master tape was at the time, so I'm sure that at the time of the case being presented it was where it was meant to be.

People being leant on is hardly surprising either. The coppers themselves have admitted that it didn't work and that they took precautions to ensure the integrity of the case, so how is this news? Colleagues of mine (many who hate Milne) are staggered at how he has been treated.

And yes, I do know Gladman...... I will say no more.

[SaintPav]

Does not prove a thing. Big deal. It's potentially quite slanderous.

Some cop stations can have over 200 people working in them.
F--k we are copping it this year......

[bigred]

Meh this ain't going anywhere.

[Thinline]

The inference is that Milne was privy to what the girls statement was before he was to be interviewed. It is rumour and not fact. If true, not very professional and the case would have been compromised in a very minor way.

Having said that, most records of interviews are deemed inadmissible at the highest level anyway and are struck out. All the record of interview is, is Milne's version of events. Every person has a right to know the nature of their allegations (maybe not before the interview)

The HUN and other media outlets are playing on the fact that most ppl wouldn't have the first clue about police procedure. Much of what they have reported sounds sinister, but is actually quite normal. Costs is always a factor with the OPP especially when weighed up against the strength of the case. The master tape going missing after 6 years is hardly royal commision stuff. I'm sure the OPP would have been curious where the master tape was at the time, so I'm sure that at the time of the case being presented it was where it was meant to be.

People being leant on is hardly surprising either. The coppers themselves have admitted that it didn't work and that they took precautions to ensure the integrity of the case, so how is this news? Colleagues of mine (many who hate Milne) are staggered at how he has been treated.

And yes, I do know Gladman...... I will say no more.

Ohhhh would love to know a bit more about Gladman. Worthy of a PM?

What's good for the goose is good for the Gladman...

[SENsei]

Was reported on 3AW about 11:30 this morning.

A sergeant from teh Brighton Police Station (at the time) was also a part time runner/trainer at Stkilda - named Harms???

Is currently a Senior Sergeant in teh Moorabbin Traffic department.

Hans Harms was a trainer for many years, as is/was his son, Warren.

Hans is a man of the utmost integrity. There will be nothing in this.