St Kilda are the laughing stock of the AFL

[chico2001]

Similarly ...
Marshall, Membrey , Battle, McCartin etc.. would be unstoppable with quality delivery.

You serious? That's currently a very very average fwd line at best.

Marshall? Has great potential, but as of this stage has barely kicked a goal.
Membry? Our best fwd. But he's a 3rd tall. A very good one, but hardly a Darling type.
Battle? Once again. Has showed glimpses, but as yet has really done nothing. Looks promising. Also has barely kicked a goal in the AFL.
McCartin? TBH a massive disappointment so far in his career. Nothing to suggest he would be unstoppable and he has played lots more than the others.

Sure I'm serious.
I'm trying to give some credit to our past recruiting efforts, I'm not writing these players off.
I'm trying to be a little positive and show some faith here.
One thing they all have going for them - if I'm going to credit them for anything, is they are all strong marks - and I know that they would all benefit from quality inside 50 entries, compared to the type of delivery they are getting right now.

Marshall would easily outmark King one-on-one, given he'll hold his ground with his 100kgs plus - King has a few years to get to where Marshall is already at, at the moment .. and Marshall missed a lot of shots at goal, otherwise he'd be a 30-40 goal a year goal kicker, right now, and possibly a 50 goal plus goalkicker if he had the ball delivered to him better.
Membrey is already there.
These two players have the potential to kick 100 goals between them - all that is missing is quality delivery inside 50.

Two differnt arguments there. One is saying the forward line is very good and the other saying that it is unproved. I would support the unproved side of this debate. Yes, they all have talent and a couple will go onto be good players and one we hope to be a star but at the moment they havent proved anything as yet to say they could be unstoppable. No harm being positive but it has to have something to back it up.

[chico2001]

I think the comp would've laughed at us if we didn't pick up a player who was widely considered to be worthy of a top pick. It's delicious to think that within two years there's every chance that we'll get Ben off the Suns.

Regarding midfield class, I would say that these blokes on our list have the potential to become that class we need in the middle; Clark, Coffield, Phillips, Acres, Billings, Gresh

IF these blokes fire up and compliment Steven, Ross, Steele, and Hannebery, then bloody look out I say!

Not sure why posters are hanging their hat on the brother coming from the suns to the saints. It wasn't a 2 for 1 deal FFS. He hasn't even got there yet and already he is coming to the saints. So that implies clever recruiting does it? Lets work with picking some good midfielders from the picks we have left and then we will see how good our recruiters really are.

Some "posters" prefer to find potential positives wherever possible I suppose. If you actually read my post then you'd note that I said there's every chance that we can snag Ben - not a lock but a chance. Also, you're bitching on about midfield class and when some conversation is put up to perhaps indicate that we might already have some on our list you'd rather revert to sooking it up to no one in particular...

ooh...bitching am I bitch. Would'nt be too many on here who have supported Ross or Steven like I have. Hannebery hasn't played yet, so where is this other class you speak of? We have jack Steele improving . But if we had the class you speak of then, where was it in 2018?...I will answer for you....we didn't have it. Nothing wrong with being positive but be realistic. yes, I am speaking to you...not just anyone in particular.

[Train9]

Blind Freddie can see we are screaming out for midfield class. What do we do? We draft a 204 cm bean pole with a bung knee. Mark my words, even though I have taken great delight smashing Carlton and watching them win spoon after spoon lately, they are now miles ahead of us. In fact, I can see them winning their 17th flag in the next 5 years while we are still waiting for McCartin to come good.

What a muppet of a post! Bung knee? Bit of free advice here .i have tore my ACL from playing local footy and it’s good as gold now! Go buy a blues membership.
Your words have been marked

[groupie1]

There's no guarantee that any new young recruit will meet expectations- we need to give it time. No good having class midfielders who kick to the forwards who get outmarked by the opposition. There is just as much case for getting class in the midfield as there is getting a quality big forward.

We already have enough big, strong forwards who can take strong marks - Marshall, McCartin , Battle - even Membrey.
What we don't have is elite-skilled midfielders to deliver it lace-out to them on a consistent basis. We need quality entries.

The indiscriminate bombing into the forward line was not a flawed/misguided coaching idea - it was due to our poor kicking skills.

Which one of our genuine midfielders is an elite kick?

I agree with your assessment of our needs.... but inside the top 10, I reckon you pick the best player available, no matter what position they play. Because even if you can't squeeze them or those they replace into your side, you have trade value a couple years down the line. Always pick the best available high up in the draft.

[groupie1]

I think the comp would've laughed at us if we didn't pick up a player who was widely considered to be worthy of a top pick. It's delicious to think that within two years there's every chance that we'll get Ben off the Suns.

Regarding midfield class, I would say that these blokes on our list have the potential to become that class we need in the middle; Clark, Coffield, Phillips, Acres, Billings, Gresh

IF these blokes fire up and compliment Steven, Ross, Steele, and Hannebery, then bloody look out I say!

Not sure why posters are hanging their hat on the brother coming from the suns to the saints. It wasn't a 2 for 1 deal FFS. He hasn't even got there yet and already he is coming to the saints. So that implies clever recruiting does it? Lets work with picking some good midfielders from the picks we have left and then we will see how good our recruiters really are.

Some "posters" prefer to find potential positives wherever possible I suppose. If you actually read my post then you'd note that I said there's every chance that we can snag Ben - not a lock but a chance. Also, you're bitching on about midfield class and when some conversation is put up to perhaps indicate that we might already have some on our list you'd rather revert to sooking it up to no one in particular...

ooh...bitching am I bitch. Would'nt be too many on here who have supported Ross or Steven like I have. Hannebery hasn't played yet, so where is this other class you speak of? We have jack Steele improving . But if we had the class you speak of then, where was it in 2018?...I will answer for you....we didn't have it. Nothing wrong with being positive but be realistic. yes, I am speaking to you...not just anyone in particular.

I'll answer this question - where was the class?

Ben Long missed most of the year through injury - he's as classy as we have
Balls coming from a backline of Gilbert and Geary hardly made things easy for a midfield to open space up
Seb Ross can't kick straight and should have been traded
Dunstan same

So there's you'r problems. Have we fixed them with this draft: Hanners, Kent, and a couple of the mature agers look to have the dash and foot skills to make us a much better side next year.

[groupie1]

There's no guarantee that any new young recruit will meet expectations- we need to give it time. No good having class midfielders who kick to the forwards who get outmarked by the opposition. There is just as much case for getting class in the midfield as there is getting a quality big forward.

We already have enough big, strong forwards who can take strong marks - Marshall, McCartin , Battle - even Membrey.
What we don't have is elite-skilled midfielders to deliver it lace-out to them on a consistent basis. We need quality entries.

The indiscriminate bombing into the forward line was not a flawed/misguided coaching idea - it was due to our poor kicking skills.

Which one of our midfielders is an elite kick?

Collingwood showed this year that big forward aren’t crucial

I think West Coast might have something to say about that!

Ha ha ah aha... gold.
Tall forwards don't win games.... WCE wins flag. Great point, man!

[1966]

Exactly. Collingwood also were desperate to recruit Lynch so to suggest they proved you don’t need a key forward is simply untrue.
Some people enjoy being miserable.
We drafted the best available player who many had at number 1 at the start of the year.
He is a local.
His brother is clearly a chance to return in a couple of years.
Was the obvious selection at pick 4 and anything else would have been a huge risk.

[SydneySainter]

I'm in two minds.

I am glad that instead of simply drafting on a "needs" basis like 2014, they've at least taken the best available player with their first pick and from what I've heard, he's a highly rated talent.

On the other hand though, is this the club quietly admitting that they're skeptical as to whether Paddy will be the answer moving forward? If so, that's an costly gamble to lose. We have to be realistic - King, Paddy, Battle, Marshall and even Bruce can't all play in the same forward line.

[HardSaint]

Blind Freddie can see we are screaming out for midfield class. What do we do? We draft a 204 cm bean pole with a bung knee. Mark my words, even though I have taken great delight smashing Carlton and watching them win spoon after spoon lately, they are now miles ahead of us. In fact, I can see them winning their 17th flag in the next 5 years while we are still waiting for McCartin to come good.

I'd say getting King is clearly an indication that we're not resting on our laurels waiting for Mc Cartin to come good
From what I've seen, clubs have been drafting the best talent rather than role players who need to address deficiencies in team structures

Had we not signed King, it would have been an indication that we are in fact waiting for McCartin to come good, and you post would have made sense

[DJ Higgins]

I think calling us the laughing stock is a bit harsh but we entered the draft needing outside mids and rucks and left with neither. Good news is it may hasten Richo departure but who has the outside run to support stuvo. Hunter a year older but never struck me as quick so still going to be one speed in the middle. Not good

[lewdogs]

I think calling us the laughing stock is a bit harsh but we entered the draft needing outside mids and rucks and left with neither. Good news is it may hasten Richo departure but who has the outside run to support stuvo. Hunter a year older but never struck me as quick so still going to be one speed in the middle. Not good

Hind, Young and Parker all have pace. I'd say it's actually their defining attribute from what I've seen in their highlights.

It seems like pace is the main thing we targeted this draft.

[tedtheodorelogan2018]

All the mature fellas are quick. Given their age, they could play Rd 1. West Coast did well with their 3 little quick fellas in the forward half. Maybe we took note of that. In any case, I like they picked up quick mature players with the later picks.

[DJ Higgins]

I think calling us the laughing stock is a bit harsh but we entered the draft needing outside mids and rucks and left with neither. Good news is it may hasten Richo departure but who has the outside run to support stuvo. Hunter a year older but never struck me as quick so still going to be one speed in the middle. Not good

Hind, Young and Parker all have pace. I'd say it's actually their defining attribute from what I've seen in their highlights.

It seems like pace is the main thing we targeted this draft.

I agree that we have recruited pace, no argument there. But we have hind who bursts of half back into the midfield where he needs to hit an outside mid. Unfortunately his disposal is poor and we Didnt get another outside mid.
Young and parker are quick in the 50 and seem to run down the opponents small defenders no argument there but that doesn't help us get the ball to them.
Not pessimistic or optimistic just realistic. No outside mids were drafted which we needed so last year's problems of one fast midfielder who can't handle a tag remains unless Hunter Clarke improves monumentally this off season

[outside66]

I think the comp would've laughed at us if we didn't pick up a player who was widely considered to be worthy of a top pick. It's delicious to think that within two years there's every chance that we'll get Ben off the Suns.

Regarding midfield class, I would say that these blokes on our list have the potential to become that class we need in the middle; Clark, Coffield, Phillips, Acres, Billings, Gresh

IF these blokes fire up and compliment Steven, Ross, Steele, and Hannebery, then bloody look out I say!

Not sure why posters are hanging their hat on the brother coming from the suns to the saints. It wasn't a 2 for 1 deal FFS. He hasn't even got there yet and already he is coming to the saints. So that implies clever recruiting does it? Lets work with picking some good midfielders from the picks we have left and then we will see how good our recruiters really are.

Some "posters" prefer to find potential positives wherever possible I suppose. If you actually read my post then you'd note that I said there's every chance that we can snag Ben - not a lock but a chance. Also, you're bitching on about midfield class and when some conversation is put up to perhaps indicate that we might already have some on our list you'd rather revert to sooking it up to no one in particular...

ooh...bitching am I bitch. Would'nt be too many on here who have supported Ross or Steven like I have. Hannebery hasn't played yet, so where is this other class you speak of? We have jack Steele improving . But if we had the class you speak of then, where was it in 2018?...I will answer for you....we didn't have it. Nothing wrong with being positive but be realistic. yes, I am speaking to you...not just anyone in particular.

2018 was not a good year I agree but as I said, I think we already have the potential re midfield class on our list, and a 2018 summary of those that I mentioned are below;

Clark, Coffield, Phillips = They are very young players obviously and I think will become very good players
Acres = Was looking real good until he got injured and missed nearly 3 months of footy
Billings = I thought he was pretty good but will improve exponentially once he gets more support around him (Hannaz will be a great start)
Gresh = Needs another pre-season to build his tank. He's set to play a significant role in the middle next year

[chico2001]

One thing to remember is that other clubs have improved their lists as well, so it stands to reason if we finished 15th in 2018 that we would have to recruit much better than other clubs to climb up the ladder. The above players are not midfielders yet, 3 of them are forwards and the new ones are no way ready to take on a midfield role. Can you imagine Coffield and Clark in midfield roles and taking on the likes of Mitchell, Ablett et al.
This is why posters rant on about getting top midfielders, we really need another 2. The draft had some midfielders ready to go right now, agree that they might only get 2 years out of them but we need wins in 2019. We cant nursemaid a bunch of players for the next 2 years.

[Gershwin]

One thing to remember is that other clubs have improved their lists as well, so it stands to reason if we finished 15th in 2018 that we would have to recruit much better than other clubs to climb up the ladder. The above players are not midfielders yet, 3 of them are forwards and the new ones are no way ready to take on a midfield role. Can you imagine Coffield and Clark in midfield roles and taking on the likes of Mitchell, Ablett et al.
This is why posters rant on about getting top midfielders, we really need another 2. The draft had some midfielders ready to go right now, agree that they might only get 2 years out of them but we need wins in 2019. We cant nursemaid a bunch of players for the next 2 years.

Pretty simple thinking there Chico.
Ignoring factors such as injury, toughness of fixture, age of list, etc. I prefer Clark to Ablett next year.

[bigred]

I think everyone was rather surprised by our later picks.

It flies in the face of most clubs recruiting. They are not "short term" picks, but more "immediate impact" picks than anything.

All those guys could eek out 5 year, 100 game careers.

Will be interesting to see if one or two of them can crack it for round one.

[chico2001]

I think everyone was rather surprised by our later picks.

It flies in the face of most clubs recruiting. They are not "short term" picks, but more "immediate impact" picks than anything.

All those guys could eek out 5 year, 100 game careers.

Will be interesting to see if one or two of them can crack it for round one.

I would hope so, especially Parker if he can settle in and Wilkie Possibly, they seem the most likely to me. No guarantees unfortunately that a good sanfl or wafl player can walk up start to an AFL side, having said that we finished 15th so any decent player should be able to crack the 22.

[samoht]

Buckenara’s verdict: I’ve always said it’s hard to go past talented key forwards when they’re available, especially when they’re very athletic but if I was at St Kilda I probably would have taken a midfielder at pick No.4 simply because of their urgent need for class in that area.

Why isn't someone as sensible as Buckenara in our recruiting team?

"need" .. that's the key word, here.
"urgent need" in fact..as we just keep neglecting our midfield year after year, and we fall further and further behind the teams with classy, elite-skilled midfields, who keep building theirs - and keep widening the gap on us.

If we finish higher than 14th next year - I think richo would have overachieved.

Our recruiters are holding us back. Next year it will be urgent, urgent need.

[derby Street]

Buckenara’s verdict: I’ve always said it’s hard to go past talented key forwards when they’re available, especially when they’re very athletic but if I was at St Kilda I probably would have taken a midfielder at pick No.4 simply because of their urgent need for class in that area.

Why isn't someone as sensible as Buckenara in our recruiting team?

"need" .. that's the key word, here.
"urgent need" in fact..as we just keep neglecting our midfield year after year, and we fall further and further behind the teams with classy, elite-skilled midfields, who keep building theirs - and keep widening the gap on us.

If we finish higher than 14th next year - I think richo would have overachieved.

Our recruiters are holding us back. Next year it will be urgent, urgent need.

Buckenara pffffft. Not sure what amazing recruiting resume & credentials he has got - probably less than Pelchen

[samoht]

He has nevertheless summed up and identified our biggest recruiting need, derby street ... and we have a team of full time recruiters who keep recruiting outside our needs, year after year.
Get rid of the lot of them, pay Buckenara some bickies, and our recruiting will improve by 100% .. and we'll save $1 mill/annum.

[chico2001]

Buckenara’s verdict: I’ve always said it’s hard to go past talented key forwards when they’re available, especially when they’re very athletic but if I was at St Kilda I probably would have taken a midfielder at pick No.4 simply because of their urgent need for class in that area.

Why isn't someone as sensible as Buckenara in our recruiting team?

"need" .. that's the key word, here.
"urgent need" in fact..as we just keep neglecting our midfield year after year, and we fall further and further behind the teams with classy, elite-skilled midfields, who keep building theirs - and keep widening the gap on us.

If we finish higher than 14th next year - I think richo would have overachieved.

Our recruiters are holding us back. Next year it will be urgent, urgent need.

Buckenara pffffft. Not sure what amazing recruiting resume & credentials he has got - probably less than Pelchen

Cant have it both ways derby, quite a lot of posters on here quote Buckenara when he pumps the saints up. Fair to say that he would know a good footballer when he see's one and what a team needs as well.

[derby Street]

Buckenara’s verdict: I’ve always said it’s hard to go past talented key forwards when they’re available, especially when they’re very athletic but if I was at St Kilda I probably would have taken a midfielder at pick No.4 simply because of their urgent need for class in that area.

Why isn't someone as sensible as Buckenara in our recruiting team?

"need" .. that's the key word, here.
"urgent need" in fact..as we just keep neglecting our midfield year after year, and we fall further and further behind the teams with classy, elite-skilled midfields, who keep building theirs - and keep widening the gap on us.

If we finish higher than 14th next year - I think richo would have overachieved.

Our recruiters are holding us back. Next year it will be urgent, urgent need.

Buckenara pffffft. Not sure what amazing recruiting resume & credentials he has got - probably less than Pelchen

Cant have it both ways derby, quite a lot of posters on here quote Buckenara when he pumps the saints up. Fair to say that he would know a good footballer when he see's one and what a team needs as well.

Well Chico that's your view but I have never been guilty of pumping his tyres up. Each to their own. Suffice to say he has hardly had clubs knocking down his door after the Hawks moved him on besides North Ballarat & Frankston. Callum Twoomey and Emma Quayle have had more success than Buckenara in their draft picking.

[bigred]

Buckenara's hat is hung on his superdraft where he landed Buddy, Lewis & Roughead. Hawks had a priority pick and took Rough...Then Richmond swooped on Tambling leaving Budwah at 5, then took Lewis with pick 7. Three picks in the first seven.

I don't even want to talk about what we did in that draft, but Fiora was involved.

Our midfield is too up and under. We can definitely win enough of the pill but our usage going forward was horrendous. Bad entries.. Just too many bad entries.

One hopes that maybe, just maybe we can get some better disposal, perhaps outside such as Billings and Gresh to actually kick a ball flat and hard. Billings in particular could prove to be exceptional at this.

On the flanks and or wings next year we will have some true pace. The likes that we have not seen in at least the last two decades. Seriously tell me the last bloke on our list that was exquisitely quick apart from Stuv? Aussie Jones?

Young and Parker are not just one trick ponies either. Decent users and both wont shirk it. They most definitely, definitely have spots up for grabs if they want it.

Then we have Long. He looks to have really applied himself over the break. He could truly be anything.

Seriously, how many times did Carlise intercept last year and have to give it to an up and under midfielder such as Ross?

Wait until he is kicking it to advantage of one of these guys. I'm telling ya, we should see a real shift in dynamic.

There will be much play on at all costs football.. We will have some moments, some of those moments where football is at its absolute purest and you are out of your seat.

I reckon that's the plan anyway.

[Scollop]

He has nevertheless summed up and identified our biggest recruiting need, derby street ... and we have a team of full time recruiters who keep recruiting outside our needs, year after year.
Get rid of the lot of them, pay Buckenara some bickies, and our recruiting will improve by 100% .. and we'll save $1 mill/annum.

I wouldn't have minded the selection of King if our CEO and Lethlean admitted that we need to do a total rebuild but they haven't...at least not publicly anyway. To me it points to an organisation that has come to the realisation that our last 5 years of list building has been mostly wasted. Who the hell has 4-5 tall forward options on their list FFS?

The inclusion of Kent, Hannebery and the mature age players is a way of transitioning without having the majority of your list being 18 and 19 year olds. Lessons need to be learnt from our mistakes. We will be in dissaray if we don't have a long term plan to rebuild and if we don't focus on creating a new group of leaders and teaching and instilling on field leadership.

Hopefully Bytel (if he fully recovers from the back concerns) will mature into a future captain and you never know what happens with the draftees from last year including Coffield and Hunter Clark. With some luck and with some better development our other youngsters like Paton, Phillips, DMac, White, JB, Dunny, Long, Lonie and Sinclair could be consistent contributors and of course we have Steele and a few other very good players that will hopefully be around to help get us back up the ladder

I see us being serious contenders in 5 years time and NOT before then. In my opinion we have to bite the bullet and admit that we need to rebuild with the focus on giving yourh opportunities. Plus...it will take a lot longer if we don't change the head coach in 2019