Starting 22 2018 what we'll see/ what you'd like to see.

[BackFromUSA]

FB. Geary Carlisle White
HB. Savage Gilbert Roberton
C. Newnes Steele Sinclair
HF. Billings McCartin Membrey
FF. Gresham Marshall Armitage
Foll. Hickey Ross Steven
Int. Acres Dunstan Clark Coffield

[ZNobby]

Yes sorry there, a fairly large oversight on my part, I don't think anyone that posts on here would deliberately leave Membrey out of their chosen side.

Revised side

FB.Webster Carlisle White
HB.Savage Roberton Coffield
C.Geary Armitage Sinclair
HF.Billings Membrey Steele
FF Gresham McCartin Clark
Fill.Longer/Hickey Ross Steven
Int.Bruce Dunstan Acres Newnes

[samoht]

Is Newnes still a walk up start?

Newnes would be one of our first picked, every week.
One of our most under-rated players - and I’m surprised by that.
Do a footywire comparison of Newnes against any of our other players, and you’ll see he is in the top quartile in possessions, metres gained and kicking efficiency.

not disposal efficiency - 14th last year. 15th in centre clearances. 12th in stoppage clearances. 13th in general clearances. 15th in tackles.
He's a rebounder - 9th in contested possessions, 3rd in uncontested. But woeful disposal - 4th in turnovers, 4th in clangers.

OUCH!

Re: disposal efficiency ... I’d like someone to name me the 13 regular players who had a higher disposal efficiency last year than Newnes - some of these will be chippers like Nathan Brown or Longer who average less than 2 kicks per game - and gain no metreage for their team - so we should draw a line straight through them - or some of them would have played less than 10 games over the year - are statistically insignificant - Newnes is a regular.
If we count every player who played last year, he’s 14th out of 30 plus players (maybe 35 players).
Name me the 13 regulars please who average more than 10 kicks per game ( Newnes averages over 13 kicks per game). The more metreage that’s gained, the further the ball is away from the goals you’re defending, and the closer you are to the goals you’re attacking - we should not underestimate the positives Newnes brings to the team (430 metres gain). Accentuate the positives,and appreciate our good, solid players (they don’t all have to be superstars) ye naysayers

[CQ SAINT]

Is Newnes still a walk up start?

Newnes would be one of our first picked, every week.
One of our most under-rated players - and I’m surprised by that.
Do a footywire comparison of Newnes against any of our other players, and you’ll see he is in the top quartile in possessions, metres gained and kicking efficiency.

not disposal efficiency - 14th last year. 15th in centre clearances. 12th in stoppage clearances. 13th in general clearances. 15th in tackles.
He's a rebounder - 9th in contested possessions, 3rd in uncontested. But woeful disposal - 4th in turnovers, 4th in clangers.

OUCH!

Re: disposal efficiency ... I’d like someone to name me the 13 regular players who had a higher disposal efficiency last year than Newnes - some of these will be chippers like Nathan Brown or Longer who average less than 2 kicks per game - and gain no metreage for their team - so we should draw a line straight through them - or some of them would have played less than 10 games over the year - are statistically insignificant - Newnes is a regular.
Name me the 13 regulars please who average more than 10 kicks per game ( Newnes averages over 13 kicks per game). The more metreage that’s gained, the further the ball is away from the goals you’re defending, and the closer you are to the goals you’re attacking - we should not underestimate the positives Newnes brings to the team (430 metres gain). Accentuate the positives,and appreciate our good, solid players (they don’t all have to be superstars) ye naysayers

If you create 50 metres of desperate forward movement that is immediately rebounded, the chances weigh heavily in the likelyhood that your team mates will be out of position and the ball will return to an unmarked forward.

Would love to see a stat for that.

[samoht]

Is Newnes still a walk up start?

Newnes would be one of our first picked, every week.
One of our most under-rated players - and I’m surprised by that.
Do a footywire comparison of Newnes against any of our other players, and you’ll see he is in the top quartile in possessions, metres gained and kicking efficiency.

not disposal efficiency - 14th last year. 15th in centre clearances. 12th in stoppage clearances. 13th in general clearances. 15th in tackles.
He's a rebounder - 9th in contested possessions, 3rd in uncontested. But woeful disposal - 4th in turnovers, 4th in clangers.

OUCH!

Re: disposal efficiency ... I’d like someone to name me the 13 regular players who had a higher disposal efficiency last year than Newnes - some of these will be chippers like Nathan Brown or Longer who average less than 2 kicks per game - and gain no metreage for their team - so we should draw a line straight through them - or some of them would have played less than 10 games over the year - are statistically insignificant - Newnes is a regular.
Name me the 13 regulars please who average more than 10 kicks per game ( Newnes averages over 13 kicks per game). The more metreage that’s gained, the further the ball is away from the goals you’re defending, and the closer you are to the goals you’re attacking - we should not underestimate the positives Newnes brings to the team (430 metres gain). Accentuate the positives,and appreciate our good, solid players (they don’t all have to be superstars) ye naysayers

If you create 50 metres of desperate forward movement that is immediately rebounded, the chances weigh heavily in the likelyhood that your team mates will be out of position and the ball will return to an unmarked forward.

Would love to see a stat for that.

If you want to put someone down, I’m sure there’d be plenty of stats that can be created for it. Newnes has a disposal efficiency higher than Billings, Ross and Steven - l’m happy with that.

[CQ SAINT]

Is Newnes still a walk up start?

Newnes would be one of our first picked, every week.
One of our most under-rated players - and I’m surprised by that.
Do a footywire comparison of Newnes against any of our other players, and you’ll see he is in the top quartile in possessions, metres gained and kicking efficiency.

not disposal efficiency - 14th last year. 15th in centre clearances. 12th in stoppage clearances. 13th in general clearances. 15th in tackles.
He's a rebounder - 9th in contested possessions, 3rd in uncontested. But woeful disposal - 4th in turnovers, 4th in clangers.

OUCH!

Re: disposal efficiency ... I’d like someone to name me the 13 regular players who had a higher disposal efficiency last year than Newnes - some of these will be chippers like Nathan Brown or Longer who average less than 2 kicks per game - and gain no metreage for their team - so we should draw a line straight through them - or some of them would have played less than 10 games over the year - are statistically insignificant - Newnes is a regular.
Name me the 13 regulars please who average more than 10 kicks per game ( Newnes averages over 13 kicks per game). The more metreage that’s gained, the further the ball is away from the goals you’re defending, and the closer you are to the goals you’re attacking - we should not underestimate the positives Newnes brings to the team (430 metres gain). Accentuate the positives,and appreciate our good, solid players (they don’t all have to be superstars) ye naysayers

If you create 50 metres of desperate forward movement that is immediately rebounded, the chances weigh heavily in the likelyhood that your team mates will be out of position and the ball will return to an unmarked forward.

Would love to see a stat for that.

If you want to put someone down, I’m sure there’d be plenty of stats for it.

I didnt mention anyones name but as a team who get the ball enough to be finalists, our oldest and most experienced players MUST be more effective and NOT just get more metres and ineffective possesions.

Time to TURNOVER a new leaf or TURNOVER the player list.

[CQ SAINT]

Is Newnes still a walk up start?

Newnes would be one of our first picked, every week.
One of our most under-rated players - and I’m surprised by that.
Do a footywire comparison of Newnes against any of our other players, and you’ll see he is in the top quartile in possessions, metres gained and kicking efficiency.

not disposal efficiency - 14th last year. 15th in centre clearances. 12th in stoppage clearances. 13th in general clearances. 15th in tackles.
He's a rebounder - 9th in contested possessions, 3rd in uncontested. But woeful disposal - 4th in turnovers, 4th in clangers.

OUCH!

Re: disposal efficiency ... I’d like someone to name me the 13 regular players who had a higher disposal efficiency last year than Newnes - some of these will be chippers like Nathan Brown or Longer who average less than 2 kicks per game - and gain no metreage for their team - so we should draw a line straight through them - or some of them would have played less than 10 games over the year - are statistically insignificant - Newnes is a regular.
Name me the 13 regulars please who average more than 10 kicks per game ( Newnes averages over 13 kicks per game). The more metreage that’s gained, the further the ball is away from the goals you’re defending, and the closer you are to the goals you’re attacking - we should not underestimate the positives Newnes brings to the team (430 metres gain). Accentuate the positives,and appreciate our good, solid players (they don’t all have to be superstars) ye naysayers

If you create 50 metres of desperate forward movement that is immediately rebounded, the chances weigh heavily in the likelyhood that your team mates will be out of position and the ball will return to an unmarked forward.

Would love to see a stat for that.

If you want to put someone down, I’m sure there’d be plenty of stats that can be created for it. Newnes has a disposal efficiency higher than Billings, Ross and Steven - l’m happy with that.

I see your point. What I fail to see is Newnes impacting on a game as as a match winning contributor. A foot soldier who plays a role yes. Billings Steven and to a lessor degree Ross are very capable of turning the outcome of a game single handedly.

[samoht]

CQSaint .... When Billings, Ross and Steven occasionally turn the outcome of a game “single handedly” - you’d probably find that Newnes will more often than not be in the wings, playing his role alongside other contributors to the “singlehandedness.” Anyway, I’m waiting to find out who these 13 regular players are who have a better disposal efficiency (as I said, Newnes has Billings, Ross and Steven covered).

[CQ SAINT]

CQSaint .... When Billings, Ross and Steven occasionally turn the outcome of a game “single handedly” - you’d probably find that Newnes will more often than not be in the wings, playing his role alongside other contributors to the “singlehandedness.”

Yes 'Samoht' you are 100% correct. I expect no more of him. I gues it is all about where you set your expectations. 10th to 14th on the ladder sounds about right.

[samoht]

That’s a fair assessment - that’s all I wanted, to be fair to him.
He’s certainly not ranked 14th out of our regular players as far as disposal efficiency goes - he’s better than that - fair is fair.

[spert]

Newnes looks the goods with his kicking, same goes for Webster, but no matter how many metres gained, kicks dont seem to hit a target in the forward line or go straight to the defender, so those metres gained, end up metres lost when the ball bombed long to no mans land, comes quickly back out of opposition defence, and our defence is wrong footed. One of the big deficiencies that Richo has not addressed, and I doubt he is able to.

Both Newnes and Webster need to do more work with their decision-making from the backline. Successful teams have players who find targets in better position consistently by hand and foot.

[CQ SAINT]

That’s a fair assessment - that’s all I wanted, to be fair to him.
He’s certainly not ranked 14th out of our regular players as far as disposal efficiency goes - he’s better than that - fair is fair.

Another fair assessment:

22.9 poss
9.6 of them handballs.
3 rebound 50m
3 inside 50m
3 clangers
.3 goal assist.

What is his role?

Where are the other kicks going? They are definitely not creating anything on the scoreboard. And by the looks neither are the inside 50's.

1.5 goal assists would be in line with our goal kicking efficiency and his inside 50 stats.

He can mark, his handballs should be in the 90% effective range, he is fit and doesnt get injured.

Im sure he checks his own stats.

[CQ SAINT]

That’s a fair assessment - that’s all I wanted, to be fair to him.
He’s certainly not ranked 14th out of our regular players as far as disposal efficiency goes - he’s better than that - fair is fair.

Another fair assessment:

22.9 poss
9.6 of them handballs.
3 rebound 50m
3 inside 50m
3 clangers
.3 goal assist.

What is his role?

Where are the other kicks going? They are definitely not creating anything on the scoreboard. And by the looks neither are the inside 50's.

1.5 goal assists would be in line with our goal kicking efficiency and his inside 50 stats.

He can mark, his handballs should be in the 90% effective range, he is fit and doesnt get injured.

Im sure he checks his own stats.

He is not alone but he has achieved 100 games of very average football and we are still waiting for him to improve.

[Ten Fourteen]

If we are looking at the team for round 1 then I can't find a spot for Brown. Brisbane will have the one key tall in Hipwood who is tall and fast. Carlisle goes there. The rest of Brisbanes forward line will be be mobile with a lot of mids rotating through. This is where we get value out of guys like Webster, Geary, Newnes. I like White as well but remember for 50% of the game the opposition has the ball and with guys like Cameron, Christianson, Cox running through we need mobile desperate defenders. I accept disposal can be an issue but I can live with that if they negate the opposition.

[CQ SAINT]

Geary Austin Roberton
Coffield Carlisle White
Sinclair Ross Savage
Membrey Bruce Billings
Gresham McCartin Clark

Hickey Armitage Steven

Dunstan Acres Steele Conellan

Paton Long Marshall Langlands

What have we got to lose?

[samoht]

CQSaint ... correct me if I'm wrong.
I think for any kick or handball to be counted as a goal assist, it needs to be just that, am I right? - i.e., a handball or kick to a player who then either turns around and kicks a goal or goes back after a mark to kick a goal.
So, let's start with Newne's 3 inside 50 handballs and/or kicks.

Obviously, half or less than half of the kicks that trouble the scoreboard, especially in St Kilda's case, would be goals (but, let's assume 50% are goals).
Then there's the inside 50 entries that get rebounded back - usually about half again.
So, realistically, only about 0.75 (1/2 x 1/2 x3) or 1/4 of the 3 inside entries, at best, are going to be goals - if we stop here.
But --- what if the player who receives the inside 50 handball or kick that was attributed to Newnes, then passes it to someone else, a third player, who kicks a goal - this doesn't count as a goal assist to Newnes. And this would happen at least 50% of the time.
So, I think 0.3 goal assists (we're not talking just goals here, right? - or anyone's goals - it's goal assists that are specifically attributed to Newnes!) from 3 inside 50 entries sounds about right.

I emphasise, Newnes disposal efficiency and metreage gained is better than most of our regular players. It's a good combination to have, and he's a valuable contributor - in my books, anyway.
Look elsewhere, in my humble (and I think fair) opinion.

[CQ SAINT]

CQSaint ... correct me if I'm wrong.
I think for any kick or handball to be counted as a goal assist, it needs to be just that, am I right? - i.e., a handball or kick to a player who then either turns around or goes back after a mark to kick a goal.
So, let's start with Newne's 3 inside 50 handballs and/or kicks.

Obviously, half or less than half of the kicks that trouble the scoreboard, especially in St Kilda's case, would be goals (but, let's assume 50% are goals).
Then there's the inside 50 entries that get rebounded back - usually about half again.
So only about 0.75 (1/2 x 1/2) of the 3 inside entries, at best, are going to be goals - if we stop here.
But --- what if the player who receives the inside 50 handball or kick that was attributed to Newnes, then passes it to someone else (a third player) who then kicks a goal - this doesn't count as a goal assist to Newnes. And this would happen at least 50% of the time.
So, I think 0.3 goal assists (we're not talking just goals here, right? - it's goal assists!) from 3 inside 50 entries sounds about right.

I emphasise, Newnes disposal efficiency and metreage gained is better than most of our regular players. It's a good combination to have, and he's a valuable contributor - in my books, anyway.
Look elsewhere, in my humble (and I think fair) opinion.

In my opinion, he is generally ineffective in terms of providing scoring outcomes.and the majority of his effective disposal would be by hand and not gaining much meterage.

You like him for his very average and consistent performance. I get that.

He is not a bum footballer by any means, just very average. He is pretty versatilr, reliable in what he does and was good value for where and when he was drafted.

His very average performances place him in our best 15 but he would not be in our best 5 midfielders, not in our best 5 medium defenders and clearly not a forward.

I dont generally study stats and I dont generally 'pick' on players but I dont think he will get any better and cannot see him being a catalyst for a rise up the ladder. Im not slighting him, he is what he is. Just very average, very fit and he bombs 50m kicks that go nowhere more often than not.

Again, in my opinion, Sinclair is better and I rate Savage better and much more effective and prefer them in the same position.

I do not see a future for him after this year if we are to improve.

I would prefer Clarke, Coffield, White, Paton and Langlands get chances to prove themselves just as Newnes did when he came. That is all

[CQ SAINT]

CQSaint ... correct me if I'm wrong.
I think for any kick or handball to be counted as a goal assist, it needs to be just that, am I right? - i.e., a handball or kick to a player who then either turns around or goes back after a mark to kick a goal.
So, let's start with Newne's 3 inside 50 handballs and/or kicks.

Obviously, half or less than half of the kicks that trouble the scoreboard, especially in St Kilda's case, would be goals (but, let's assume 50% are goals).
Then there's the inside 50 entries that get rebounded back - usually about half again.
So only about 0.75 (1/2 x 1/2) of the 3 inside entries, at best, are going to be goals - if we stop here.
But --- what if the player who receives the inside 50 handball or kick that was attributed to Newnes, then passes it to someone else (a third player) who then kicks a goal - this doesn't count as a goal assist to Newnes. And this would happen at least 50% of the time.
So, I think 0.3 goal assists (we're not talking just goals here, right? - it's goal assists!) from 3 inside 50 entries sounds about right.

I emphasise, Newnes disposal efficiency and metreage gained is better than most of our regular players. It's a good combination to have, and he's a valuable contributor - in my books, anyway.
Look elsewhere, in my humble (and I think fair) opinion.

In my opinion, he is generally ineffective in terms of providing scoring outcomes.and the majority of his effective disposal would be by hand and not gaining much meterage.

You like him for his very average and consistent performance. I get that.

He is not a bum footballer by any means, just very average. He is pretty versatilr, reliable in what he does and was good value for where and when he was drafted.

His very average performances place him in our best 15 but he would not be in our best 5 midfielders, not in our best 5 medium defenders and clearly not a forward.

I dont generally study stats and I dont generally 'pick' on players but I dont think he will get any better and cannot see him being a catalyst for a rise up the ladder. Im not slighting him, he is what he is. Just very average, very fit and he bombs 50m kicks that go nowhere more often than not.

Again, in my opinion, Sinclair is better and I rate Savage better and much more effective and prefer them in the same position.

I do not see a future for him after this year if we are to improve.

I would prefer Clarke, Coffield, White, Paton and Langlands get chances to prove themselves just as Newnes did when he came. That is all

If you are suggesting he is comparitively more effective than Billings Ross and Steven you are deluded and watching the stats more than the games.

[samoht]

You don't need to refer to me in that way (deluded) - have I disrespected you?
We're just expressing opinions - and mine is that while he's not the equal of Billings, Ross, Steven etc...he may not be a matchwinner, but he's still a good contributor in his own way, and worthy of being picked each week.
That's all I'm saying.

He's not a midfielder, per se - there are other better players in the guts - he plays on the flanks (half back or wing).

By the same token, I don't think Steven, Ross or Billings would necessarily do a better job in the positions or roles he plays.

If someone proves themselves better in these roles - then sure, I agree with you - he should make way for a better player.

We don't have to agree ... but we can still respect each other.

[Joffa Burns]

Shake it up!!!

B - Geary - Carslile - Savage
HB- Sinclair - Roberton - Coffield
C - Acres - Ross - Newness
HF- Billings - McCartin - Dunstan
F - Clark - Membrey - Gresham

R- Bruce - Steele - Steven
INT- Gilbert - Stevens - Lonie - Armitage

OK, we want more run through the middle and decent footskills and rebound from defence.

Mids
- Longer out for Bruce. Bruce is ineffective in the ruck so must negate at centre bounce, but is an athlete who can defend well when his opponent runs forward and can run forward himself and take a mark & kick a goal. Longer is an absolute liability when his opponent goes forward and can't be used as a weapon in attack, Longer's real value is at stoppages and the old fashioned kick behind play.

Backs
- Brown goes out (use by date expired) for mobile defenders as does Webster as he is slow replace by less dour backmen with run, carry and good footskills.
The half back role is critical as turnovers create opposition scores so Sinclair goes back as a classy ball user with Coffield, Savage & Robbo. At the moment we try and free up Robbo as he is the only really good user down back, this would be more flexible and not as easy for opposition to cover as all can hurt by foot.

Future
- Playing the talented kids and get game time into them

- Flexible guys on the interchange who can play mid, back or forward

- Rotate more guys through the midfield with more time for Clark, Acres, Gresham, Billings even whipping boy himself

- Go smaller and remove our lumbering units like Brown and Longer for smaller more mobile options

[CQ SAINT]

Consider this Samoht.

He averages 17.1 UNcontested possesions out of his 22.9 total average. This 74.67%
He also averages 17.1 effective disposals.
Coincidently, has 74.67% disposal efficiency.

3 of his 22.9 ave are clangers.

His high meters gained means he often kicks the ball long to 50/50 contests (bombed in the air). He gets an effective possession count for each one. Possible up to 8 kicks a game ave.

So this suggests that if he is in the clear and on his own he is effective but contributes very little yo the scoreboard and if he is under any sort of pressure he bombs, clangers or turns over. This is just what me and the stats suggest anyway.

Its not the worst thing in the world but it goes deeper than just glancing over stats.

I only said If you are suggesting. ......you are deluded. You kept repeating it and wanted names
It looked like you believed it. In fact you said he had them covered.

[samoht]

Consider this Samoht.

He averages 17.1 UNcontested possesions out of his 22.9 total average. This 74.67%
He also averages 17.1 effective disposals.
Coincidently, has 74.67% disposal efficiency.

3 of his 22.9 ave are clangers.

His high meters gained means he often kicks the ball long to 50/50 contests (bombed in the air). He gets an effective possession count for each one. Possible up to 8 kicks a game ave.

So this suggests that if he is in the clear and on his own he is effective but contributes very little yo the scoreboard and if he is under any sort of pressure he bombs, clangers or turns over. This is just what me and the stats suggest anyway.

Its not the worst thing in the world but it goes deeper than just glancing over stats.

Again, he deserves his place in the side -- right now (but who knows in the future?) --- and everyone makes their fair share of clangers, but not everyone gains the metreage he does.
Have you checked the clanger stats on other players - or do you want to single Newnes out??

[CQ SAINT]

Consider this Samoht.

He averages 17.1 UNcontested possesions out of his 22.9 total average. This 74.67%
He also averages 17.1 effective disposals.
Coincidently, has 74.67% disposal efficiency.

3 of his 22.9 ave are clangers.

His high meters gained means he often kicks the ball long to 50/50 contests (bombed in the air). He gets an effective possession count for each one. Possible up to 8 kicks a game ave.

So this suggests that if he is in the clear and on his own he is effective but contributes very little yo the scoreboard and if he is under any sort of pressure he bombs, clangers or turns over. This is just what me and the stats suggest anyway.

Its not the worst thing in the world but it goes deeper than just glancing over stats.

Again, he deserves his place in the side -- everyone makes their fair share of clangers, but not everyone gains the metreage he does.
Have you checked the clanger stats on other players??

Im trying yo talk about Newnes not other players.

[samoht]

Consider this Samoht.

He averages 17.1 UNcontested possesions out of his 22.9 total average. This 74.67%
He also averages 17.1 effective disposals.
Coincidently, has 74.67% disposal efficiency.

3 of his 22.9 ave are clangers.

His high meters gained means he often kicks the ball long to 50/50 contests (bombed in the air). He gets an effective possession count for each one. Possible up to 8 kicks a game ave.

So this suggests that if he is in the clear and on his own he is effective but contributes very little yo the scoreboard and if he is under any sort of pressure he bombs, clangers or turns over. This is just what me and the stats suggest anyway.

Its not the worst thing in the world but it goes deeper than just glancing over stats.

Again, he deserves his place in the side -- everyone makes their fair share of clangers, but not everyone gains the metreage he does.
Have you checked the clanger stats on other players??

Im trying yo talk about Newnes not other players.

Yes, but how does Newnes compare in the clanger stats (his 3 from 23 possessions compare against other players ) - or are we just singling him out just for the heck of it?
let's be fair. I think we've gone around in circles enough times.

[CQ SAINT]

Consider this Samoht.

He averages 17.1 UNcontested possesions out of his 22.9 total average. This 74.67%
He also averages 17.1 effective disposals.
Coincidently, has 74.67% disposal efficiency.

3 of his 22.9 ave are clangers.

His high meters gained means he often kicks the ball long to 50/50 contests (bombed in the air). He gets an effective possession count for each one. Possible up to 8 kicks a game ave.

So this suggests that if he is in the clear and on his own he is effective but contributes very little yo the scoreboard and if he is under any sort of pressure he bombs, clangers or turns over. This is just what me and the stats suggest anyway.

Its not the worst thing in the world but it goes deeper than just glancing over stats.

Again, he deserves his place in the side -- everyone makes their fair share of clangers, but not everyone gains the metreage he does.
Have you checked the clanger stats on other players??

Im trying yo talk about Newnes not other players.

Yes, but how does Newnes compare in the clanger stats (his 3 from 23 possessions compare against other players ) - or are we just singling him out just for the heck of it?
let's be fair.

Ok. 50% of his 6 uncontested possesions are clangers. You have your Newnes blinkers on and that is ok. We will agree to disagree. If he clangers uncontested possession it just gets worse.