Saintsational Fan Forum - A passionate community of St Kilda Football Club fans discussing news, history, players, trade rumours, results, AFL stats and more.
spert wrote:
Gawd, if that's the case Barassi and Blight wouldn't have had premiership coaching gigs. Who told you all this- a mate, someone who knows someone who know a bloke at the club, someone who knows one of the player's mates?
One of our directors, to my face, at a business function unrelated to the Saints.
SW was a dud. Wonder which WAFL club he joins next year?
And BJ had no time for Watters. Disliked him. Rated him so low that it was as much of a factor as anything else in leaving. He also didn't like the contract length we were willing to offer him (3 years max) but SW was a factor.
My source for that one? BJ.
sounds about right....scotty might not have wanted the players to leave...others had other ideas....
I am not supporting Watters but it sh*ts me how people are naturally so hierarchical that you drop a word 'Director' and automatically their view is taken as gospel.
Who said a Saints Director has ever been a good decision maker? Good chance he/she is also f*cking clueless. Time will tell. But its certainly not a settled fact that Watters is a moron and Pelchen is a genius. Time will tell. The jury is out.
spert wrote:
Gawd, if that's the case Barassi and Blight wouldn't have had premiership coaching gigs. Who told you all this- a mate, someone who knows someone who know a bloke at the club, someone who knows one of the player's mates?
One of our directors, to my face, at a business function unrelated to the Saints.
SW was a dud. Wonder which WAFL club he joins next year?
And BJ had no time for Watters. Disliked him. Rated him so low that it was as much of a factor as anything else in leaving. He also didn't like the contract length we were willing to offer him (3 years max) but SW was a factor.
My source for that one? BJ.
sounds about right....scotty might not have wanted the players to leave...others had other ideas....
I am not supporting Watters but it sh*ts me how people are naturally so hierarchical that you drop a word 'Director' and automatically their view is taken as gospel.
Who said a Saints Director has ever been a good decision maker? Good chance he/she is also f*cking clueless. Time will tell. But its certainly not a settled fact that Watters is a moron and Pelchen is a genius. Time will tell. The jury is out.
Con, with due respect, Watters wasn't smart enough to hang on to his job and he had a contract. What does that tell you? He also appears to have lost the playing group.
While it's all hindsight, the criticism of the club and directors/board should be levelled at the initial selection.
Firstly they let a very good coach go and then replace him with a dud. Who knows weather they have got it right with AR. I'm not holding my breath.
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
spert wrote:
Gawd, if that's the case Barassi and Blight wouldn't have had premiership coaching gigs. Who told you all this- a mate, someone who knows someone who know a bloke at the club, someone who knows one of the player's mates?
One of our directors, to my face, at a business function unrelated to the Saints.
SW was a dud. Wonder which WAFL club he joins next year?
And BJ had no time for Watters. Disliked him. Rated him so low that it was as much of a factor as anything else in leaving. He also didn't like the contract length we were willing to offer him (3 years max) but SW was a factor.
My source for that one? BJ.
sounds about right....scotty might not have wanted the players to leave...others had other ideas....
I am not supporting Watters but it sh*ts me how people are naturally so hierarchical that you drop a word 'Director' and automatically their view is taken as gospel.
Who said a Saints Director has ever been a good decision maker? Good chance he/she is also f*cking clueless. Time will tell. But its certainly not a settled fact that Watters is a moron and Pelchen is a genius. Time will tell. The jury is out.
Con, with due respect, Watters wasn't smart enough to hang on to his job and he had a contract. What does that tell you? He also appears to have lost the playing group.
While it's all hindsight, the criticism of the club and directors/board should be levelled at the initial selection.
Firstly they let a very good coach go and then replace him with a dud. Who knows weather they have got it right with AR. I'm not holding my breath.
Well said.
If AR is dud then we will be bottom feeders for a decade. Hope not!
i am Melbourne Skies - sometimes Blue Skies, Grey Skies, even Partly Cloudy Skies.
I'm staggered that after all the thrashings we've been getting delt this season (some from pretty ordinary opposition as it is), so many seem content that Richardson is still taking us in the right direction, but after one year in the bottom 3 under Watters, it's universally accepted he was a dud.
Watters had two years at the Saints and in the first year we still won 12 matches, good enough for top 8 most seasons.
Watters may well have been the wrong man moving forward, but what has Richardson shown to prove that we're on a better path?
SydneySainter wrote:I'm staggered that after all the thrashings we've been getting delt this season (some from pretty ordinary opposition as it is), so many seem content that Richardson is still taking us in the right direction, but after one year in the bottom 3 under Watters, it's universally accepted he was a dud.
Watters had two years at the Saints and in the first year we still won 12 matches, good enough for top 8 most seasons.
Watters may well have been the wrong man moving forward, but what has Richardson shown to prove that we're on a better path?
Last years side was probably a 10 goal better side than this year, player wise and remember we won the last game because Freo didnt give a stuff. And it was his second year and he had lost nearly all the players and the board.
NDS is not worth 10 goals a game + the quality of the kids injected this year from the draft has added more to the side than I can remember since Thomas' time
sunsaint wrote:NDS is not worth 10 goals a game + the quality of the kids injected this year from the draft has added more to the side than I can remember since Thomas' time
It may in the long run but the side would be 10 goals worse than last season. Dal, Milne, Steven killing them and even a few gmaes from Fisher, Kosi and Blake make it better. I think we cant say the coach is a dud based on the list this year.
spert wrote:
Gawd, if that's the case Barassi and Blight wouldn't have had premiership coaching gigs. Who told you all this- a mate, someone who knows someone who know a bloke at the club, someone who knows one of the player's mates?
One of our directors, to my face, at a business function unrelated to the Saints.
SW was a dud. Wonder which WAFL club he joins next year?
And BJ had no time for Watters. Disliked him. Rated him so low that it was as much of a factor as anything else in leaving. He also didn't like the contract length we were willing to offer him (3 years max) but SW was a factor.
My source for that one? BJ.
sounds about right....scotty might not have wanted the players to leave...others had other ideas....
I am not supporting Watters but it sh*ts me how people are naturally so hierarchical that you drop a word 'Director' and automatically their view is taken as gospel.
Who said a Saints Director has ever been a good decision maker? Good chance he/she is also f*cking clueless. Time will tell. But its certainly not a settled fact that Watters is a moron and Pelchen is a genius. Time will tell. The jury is out.
Con, with due respect, Watters wasn't smart enough to hang on to his job and he had a contract. What does that tell you? He also appears to have lost the playing group.
While it's all hindsight, the criticism of the club and directors/board should be levelled at the initial selection.
Firstly they let a very good coach go and then replace him with a dud. Who knows weather they have got it right with AR. I'm not holding my breath.
With due respect - Im not supporting Watters and im not privy to enough info on it to make a comment either way.
Im just also not signing up to someone saying 'A Director says hes a dud ' so thats it - argument over.
I dont think all Saints Directors in the last 120 years have been oracles - and why tf should we take their word for anything?
Maybe the senior players did need to be taken on in some areas. I have nfi. Lets face facts Joey isnt helping us much this year. Hes just racking up cheap stats.
SaintPav wrote:
While it's all hindsight, the criticism of the club and directors/board should be levelled at the initial selection.
Firstly they let a very good coach go and then replace him with a dud. Who knows weather they have got it right with AR. I'm not holding my breath.
the obvious flaw in your argument
in one breath you criticise the "Powers that Be" for losing RL
then criticise the PtB for appointing SW
What does that tell about the PtB decision making skills in practise?
Thought the most interesting part was the banter between panelists after the interview. Crap interview, no new insight. Watters was delusional, megalomaniac straight out of the Malthouse factory of failed assistants. Our club was wrong to select him, but I'm very glad they made the painful and expensive decision to ditch him. We need to stand by Richo. He's a straight shooter who has a wealth of knowledge and experience. He commands respect!
Saint wagga wrote:Thought the most interesting part was the banter between panelists after the interview. Crap interview, no new insight. Watters was delusional, megalomaniac straight out of the Malthouse factory of failed assistants. Our club was wrong to select him, but I'm very glad they made the painful and expensive decision to ditch him. We need to stand by Richo. He's a straight shooter who has a wealth of knowledge and experience. He commands respect!
Does he command respect?
Maybe from supporters and management but not from the players. Apart from Roo they CBF.
i am Melbourne Skies - sometimes Blue Skies, Grey Skies, even Partly Cloudy Skies.
Saint wagga wrote:Thought the most interesting part was the banter between panelists after the interview. Crap interview, no new insight. Watters was delusional, megalomaniac straight out of the Malthouse factory of failed assistants. Our club was wrong to select him, but I'm very glad they made the painful and expensive decision to ditch him. We need to stand by Richo. He's a straight shooter who has a wealth of knowledge and experience. He commands respect!
Nothing against Richo as a guy, and apparently a good teacher of footy- but that doesn't always make a good senior coach. Clearly obvious that he can't get in the heads of his players, and there are real motivational issues, and although he can talk about it at pressers all he likes, the problem us getting worse. If he has had to rant at the playing group again after yet another embarrassing loss, then he hasn't got them on his side. The senior players are not responding(Roo aside), and that us a bad sign..Watters seemed to have similar issues with some of the senior players who weren't playing for the coach or jumper, and preferred to sook it about the coach, and that clearly didn't help his cause.
Director did not say Watters was a dud. Director remained impressed with Watters. Director could not ignore daily criticism from players and staff about Watters and his style and methods. Director was repeating this criticism and some of the stories associated with it.
Criticism came from young players as well as old. Contrary to popular belief, it wasn't confined to the older blokes. They just had enough experience/standing to say something, whereas the younger guys didn't.
Anyway. It's all history. Hopefully that's the last thing Watters says on the topic.
I don't think the Board will care about Senior players opinions to be totally honest even if (and I don't beleive the players are not playing for AR, it's just that we have the worst list in the AFL and have had a tough run with ijuries and the team is completely bereft of positivity and confiednce, it happens just about every year to one or two teams)...Lets face it, the board will not sack AR within two years by which time all the senior players with any pull, (Roo and Lenny - i don't think Joey is in the same company ywhen it comes to being a club icon) will either be done or have little influence on moving forward. If I was a young player at the club, I'd be making damn sure I was doing everything in my power to be on Richo's good side, or face the prospect of playing park footy, just ask Jackson Fergusen...AFL is cut throat and only the mentaly and physically strong will carve out meaningful careers..if it takes 1-2 seasons to weed out those that aren't up to it and collect young talent...then short term pain is inevitable.
Legendary wrote:Director did not say Watters was a dud. Director remained impressed with Watters. Director could not ignore daily criticism from players and staff about Watters and his style and methods. Director was repeating this criticism and some of the stories associated with it.
Criticism came from young players as well as old. Contrary to popular belief, it wasn't confined to the older blokes. They just had enough experience/standing to say something, whereas the younger guys didn't.
Anyway. It's all history. Hopefully that's the last thing Watters says on the topic.
My manager and senior manager were both let go several years back after those above caught wind that, like Twatters, they didn't have any support from the staff.
Was a wise move and upset hardly anyone. To the contrary - we wanted to celebrate their sackings!
i am Melbourne Skies - sometimes Blue Skies, Grey Skies, even Partly Cloudy Skies.
Saint wagga wrote:
<snip>
Watters was delusional, megalomaniac straight out of the Malthouse factory of failed assistants.
<snip>
We need to stand by Richo. He's a straight shooter who has a wealth of knowledge and experience. He commands respect!
Not picking on you in isolation because your viewpoint is shared by many, ...but
you call SW a megalomaniac, which is exactly how could characterise AR "commands respect" or RL "my way or no way, then the highway"
Oh and RL was one of those failed assistants at carlton during the woeful 2000's under parkin & pagan whereas SW was involved with premierships left right and center before coming to the saints
just depends on how your buttered toast falls
Saint wagga wrote:
<snip>
Watters was delusional, megalomaniac straight out of the Malthouse factory of failed assistants.
<snip>
We need to stand by Richo. He's a straight shooter who has a wealth of knowledge and experience. He commands respect!
Not picking on you in isolation because your viewpoint is shared by many, ...but
you call SW a megalomaniac, which is exactly how could characterise AR "commands respect" or RL "my way or no way, then the highway"
Oh and RL was one of those failed assistants at carlton during the woeful 2000's under parkin & pagan whereas SW was involved with premierships left right and center before coming to the saints
just depends on how your buttered toast falls
Each due our opinion for sure, but, when I refer to Watters delusional and magalomaniac personality traits...compared with AR's respect...it's been widely reported that SW was incompatible with working with others, wanted control over all aspects of the footy department ( in an infamous interview 1:1 with Mick Malthouse on Saturday night footy, Watters basically said, thats what Mick told them, to be running everything in the footy dept!!), that to me says control hungry (megalomaniac is a bit of a cartoon imbelishment extreme of that personality trait), wheras I've only seen good clear communication from AR and his co workers and the footy department, they seem to be working cohesively, and AR appears happy to delegate). By commanding respect, that just refers to his consistent approach, his chrystal clear message and what every player has said when asked about AR on the saints website, that he 'commands respect' and i'm assuming it comes from his extensive experience in the industry that commands respect, not a dictatorial approach...and my reference to failed Malthouse clones, it wasn't so much the club they came from that was failed, successful Collingwood regime, it was what happened when appointed head coaches and the trainwrecks within a short time...well, it's really only Neeld and SW...but hey, it's how we butter our toast
Anyway, regardless of whatever the club has done, what's done is done, Watters is gone, and we're $500k poorer as a club as a result of that decision. I just wonder how long it will be before AR cracks it with Pelchin, as any senior coach worth their salt generally wants some autonomy, and doesn't want be an obedient corporate robot.
spert wrote:Anyway, regardless of whatever the club has done, what's done is done, Watters is gone, and we're $500k poorer as a club as a result of that decision. I just wonder how long it will be before AR cracks it with Pelchin, as any senior coach worth their salt generally wants some autonomy, and doesn't want be an obedient corporate robot.
SW wasnt sacked because he wasnt a corporate robot, he was sacked because he lost players, young and old and went behind the boards back in hiring staff. Even the best coaches havent done that. By the way why is AR a corporate robot? Why is different to Hinkley for example. Just another myth that seems was started on here and grown legs.
And Yet; correct me if I'm wrong. When Lyon left and The Saints recruitment panel interviewed our 3 finalists wasn't it between Richardson, Watters and Hinkley?
Who's to blame?
I once spent a year in Adelaide, I think it was on a Sunday.
