another reason lyon shites me

[plugger66]

Sure I will let it go.The day after I see Luke Ball with 09/10 premiership medals round his neck in a Saints jumper and the dirty dog outside Ozanam house drinking from a flagon and botting smokes!!

And who may be the dirty dog?

[Dr Spaceman]

Sure I will let it go.The day after I see Luke Ball with 09/10 premiership medals round his neck in a Saints jumper and the dirty dog outside Ozanam house drinking from a flagon and botting smokes!!

And who may be the dirty dog?

Could be my neighbour's.

Bloody thing's covered in fleas

[whiskers3614]

Sure I will let it go.The day after I see Luke Ball with 09/10 premiership medals round his neck in a Saints jumper and the dirty dog outside Ozanam house drinking from a flagon and botting smokes!!

And who may be the dirty dog?

Alias Juda$/lover of our dear departed condom fitter!

[Dr Spaceman]

I don't like him cause he up his own ar$e - He gives this speech saying its the 'end of an era" - He's just talking about himself - he recons its 'The Lyon Era' - He's gone - who cares _ hopefully we can play some attacking footy - The players are all still there, some very good ones coming back from injury or off a teribble year ( form and media/legal stress) and there is a chance some of the young ones might step up - I for one look forward to 2012

+1.......judas was a dog....now he's doggone.... ..and thank god for that....

Judas? Judas was a dog?

Not sure about that, but Jeremiah was a bullfrog

He was a good friend of mine

[8856brother]

I don't like him cause he up his own ar$e - He gives this speech saying its the 'end of an era" - He's just talking about himself - he recons its 'The Lyon Era' - He's gone - who cares _ hopefully we can play some attacking footy - The players are all still there, some very good ones coming back from injury or off a teribble year ( form and media/legal stress) and there is a chance some of the young ones might step up - I for one look forward to 2012

+1.......judas was a dog....now he's doggone.... ..and thank god for that....

Judas? Judas was a dog?

Not sure about that, but Jeremiah was a bullfrog

He was a good friend of mine

Joy to the world

[plugger66]

Sure I will let it go.The day after I see Luke Ball with 09/10 premiership medals round his neck in a Saints jumper and the dirty dog outside Ozanam house drinking from a flagon and botting smokes!!

And who may be the dirty dog?

Alias Juda$/lover of our dear departed condom fitter!

Sure your name isnt Whiskey?

[whiskers3614]

Don't worry about my name if big Tony saw some of your drivel and use of his name you may be a candidate for the treatment he once gave Mike Sheahan!

[8856brother]

Sure I will let it go.The day after I see Luke Ball with 09/10 premiership medals round his neck in a Saints jumper and the dirty dog outside Ozanam house drinking from a flagon and botting smokes!!

And who may be the dirty dog?

Alias Juda$/lover of our dear departed condom fitter!

Don't just dismiss therapy. It helped me

[plugger66]

Don't worry about my name if big Tony saw some of your drivel and use of his name you may be a candidate for the treatment he once gave Mike Sheahan!

Not sure he did a lot to Mike Sheahan but you are doing a lot for the effects of to much drink.

[whiskers3614]

You may know less about St K fc than you think.

[plugger66]

You may know less about St K fc than you think.

Do you know how much I think I know?

[whiskers3614]

You may know less about St K fc than you think.

Do you know how much I think I know?

I defer to your superior post count intelligence and wit Mr Plugger 66, now can you please enlighten me and other mere mortals with a rational explanation of Judas' use of Ball in 2nd half of 09GF and it's short and medium term impacts on the club?

[IluvHarvey]

You may know less about St K fc than you think.

Do you know how much I think I know?

I defer to your superior post count intelligence and wit Mr Plugger 66, now can you please enlighten me and other mere mortals with a rational explanation of Judas' use of Ball in 2nd half of 09GF and it's short and medium term impacts on the club?

Try reading "The Bubble". It explains a lot

[whiskers3614]

I said rational not RATIONALIZATION. Please referto dictionary for explanation of difference. I too have read propaganda before but hopefully usually can pick reasons from excuses.

[plugger66]

You may know less about St K fc than you think.

Do you know how much I think I know?

I defer to your superior post count intelligence and wit Mr Plugger 66, now can you please enlighten me and other mere mortals with a rational explanation of Judas' use of Ball in 2nd half of 09GF and it's short and medium term impacts on the club?

I think he made a big mistake not playing him in the second half of the GF. Like every coach they make mistakes IMO. In his opinion it may not have been a mistake. How would we know unless we interview him.

[whiskers3614]

Thanks for honest answer, the problem with interviewing is that he would give politician type answers with a smarmy smirk like every other interview!

[whiskers3614]

Stan Alves also mase mistakes in 97 but he didn't portray that superiority that so aggravated me every time y saw Lyon on TV

[SaintPav]

You may know less about St K fc than you think.

Do you know how much I think I know?

I defer to your superior post count intelligence and wit Mr Plugger 66, now can you please enlighten me and other mere mortals with a rational explanation of Judas' use of Ball in 2nd half of 09GF and it's short and medium term impacts on the club?

I think he made a big mistake not playing him in the second half of the GF. Like every coach they make mistakes IMO. In his opinion it may not have been a mistake. How would we know unless we interview him.

He said that he should have given him more game time in the second half but went on to say it was really out of his hands whatever that means.

It would have been nice if he got Dempster on Chapman. Better still, if Chappy had stayed off with his hamstring.

I wonder what would have happened if it was a dry day.

[BigMart]

He did like to pass the buck....which is odd for an authoritarian

[hungry for a premiership]

RE: '09 GF.

Yes, Lyon, by his own admission, says he should have given more game time to Ball in the second half, and also humbly admits to another match-day error on that day (can't remember it now)

BUT

He also says, (and I agree with him), that the reason we lost the game is because we missed so many opportunities in the 2nd quarter...

He said all this in an interview with Leigh Matthews in '10. You might be able to find it somewhere.

[SainterK]

I don't normally pay attention to opposition supporters comments, but this one stood out to me yesterday

It'll be very interesting to find out whether the Saints were overachieving or underachieving under the Lyon regime, to find out if the abomination that was known as Saints' Footy was justified or not.

Fair?

The whole notion of overachieving is inherently flawed. How can you do more than you can do?

Did Lyon get more out of that list than most coaches would have?

I reckon yes, but others reckon no, and and Watters' years will give SOME indication as to just how good a coach Lyon was at St Kilda.

Lyon's years at Freo will also tell us something.

Yes..

It's the concept that externally people are going to judge RL and his tenure at St Kilda by our 2012, and in particular, if it appeared that the list was in fact capable of greatness without the 'saints footy' concept

We'll never truly know, but I thought it interesting anyway.

You cracked it during the year and made a big deal about my avatar and I obliged you by changing it.

How come you never answer/respond to any of my questions? Comes across as a bit arrogant. Just saying.

Sorry I didn't see your question, I will look back through the thread now

Pav, can't find it...ask away and I'll do my best to answer it...not that I have the answers

[Scollop]

RE: '09 GF.

Yes, Lyon, by his own admission, says he should have given more game time to Ball in the second half, and also humbly admits to another match-day error on that day (can't remember it now)

BUT

He also says, (and I agree with him), that the reason we lost the game is because we missed so many opportunities in the 2nd quarter...

He said all this in an interview with Leigh Matthews in '10. You might be able to find it somewhere.

Hey, thanks for that. Now I see where the 'in Ross we trust' crowd get their opinions from - whatever Ross said was gospel wasn't it?!! I just don't believe it's as easily explained. I don't believe it was an accident that we kicked badly and I think it was the coaches responsibility to put a team out on the park in the weeks leading up to finals and the right team in each crucial final.

Sorry for another long post...but we're on my favourite subject - why Lyon is overrated, so here goes. I reckon the most important factor that determines whether you win or lose a GF is the personell. I'm not talking about a decision that is made in the final couple of weeks before a GF- No!! Apart from Geelong playing a freak like Johno even though he looked unlikely, or hawks playing buddie when he looked unlikely...I'm talking about the tough decisions where you have similar styles of player and where a number of players can play a role... I'll use the most recent example with Cats and Chris Scott. I marvelled at Scott's cunning and his premeditated plan that ultimately proved a huge difference. The Cats coach planned who would play finals back in July or August. I reckon he singled out both hawkins and vardy and he gave them the confidence that in the end proved the difference. Just imagine what would've happened if Chris Scott left out Vardy or left out Hawkins?? The list and the selection or ommission of players is what wins it in my mind.

Perhaps the impact of some different players for us in '09 or '10 would have made the difference. Why didn't Lyon introduce more players leading up to '09 and '10 finals and why didn't he create more competition for spots on the team?? The analytically minded don't just gobble up the tripe dished out by Lyon to cover his arse...He played guys that were not fit and he didn't introduce any surprises. How many times over the years do we recall the inclusion of certain players leading up to finals and how some of the players have also debuted and made an impact in finals. I keep harping on Armo and Steven for both years for us and that Macca should have been in GF1 in 2010. I reckon all of 'em would have performed and possibly made a difference.

The difference in the side Watters is inheriting as opposed to the side Lyon inherited is that lenny, roo, milne, fisher, joey, and kosi and the team were all on an upward trajectory and they were hungry for success as individuals and also committed and united in creating history as a group. The other players that came into the side had fantastic role models including a dual brownlow medalist in the rolls royce that was our banger...With most of the on field leadership also being blokes entering their most prosperous years and an expectation of emerging success ( rather than our team in 2012 that is being questioned as past their prime ) I see a vastly more challenging period for Watters. BJ and NDS need to be out there for a majority of games and they need to maintain their high standard which I'm sure they will. Then you've got jones, peaky, gram and ray that I think may have also played their best footy. The wildcard for us next year is gilbo. Steven, Armo and Macca will improve no doubt and hopefully there'll be some future stars amongst the youngsters.

Although we have a wealth of experience and leadership, I would argue that we have already seen the best from our core group and they are going to have to be managed differently for us to win a flag (i.e. play less games through the year). We need their finals experience and they'll need to be fit and firing and challenging for a spot in the team come September. Imo, Watters needs to be not just a great developer of future leaders, but also ruthless cunning and merciless when dealing with all players if the Saints are going to improve and give themselves a chance at a premiership.

[plugger66]

Just play guys even if they arent fit. It is only a GF.

[whiskers3614]

Just play guys even if they arent fit. It is only a GF.

WAS wondering about Eddy in GF2!

[joffaboy]

Just play guys even if they arent fit. It is only a GF.

Like Paul Chapman in the 09 Grand Final you mean?

Like Aker in 2002?

Like playing bj with a broken collar bone in 09?