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dragit wrote:Some guys just don't (matty lappin) and I doubt he will, he's been in the system over 5 years now…
Have a look at the Geelong players, probably the chunkiest list in the comp so they obviously have a pretty serious weights program.
If you're that skinny you have to be super quick or super skilled.
I think he will fill a gap until Siposs, Lynch or Johnson come on enough to replace him… Hope he proves me wrong.
To play the role he's playing (and I'd image he was recruited for) he needs the physical attributes.
If he can't beef up and be very strong through his core, then he's going to need to plenty of speed and endurance.
Yes - true, thus the reason Geelong (who aren't overly endowed with forwards) let him go, and no-one else touched him until pick 90…
He's got skills, no doubt, but he's lacking some elements to become a consistent player at the top level.
Strength & size being the biggest concern for the position he is wanting to fill. Pretty sure thats why the Cats gave him a year on a back-flank, to try and re-invent himself as they realised that he wasn't going develop the size or strength to become a decent marking forward…
Johnny Member wrote:Gamble played a very important role on Sunday, and he did it well. I'd argue that he may have been the most important player on the ground.
Not the best on the ground, but the most important.
But, although that role is crucial against good teams, Gamble isn't good enough to play it against good opponents.
I think he has the smarts and the skills, but physically he'll get outdone. He'll get outdone in speed and he'll get pushed around.
You don't think with some hard work, he can improve on some of those things?
He has been languishing in the VFL for a few years, so maybe he isn't conditioned quite like he needs to be? At his age, he could still modify his frame and fitness base?
He can improve, but it's not the type of stuff that improves overnight.
For mine, he needs to add about 5 kilos of muscle to his frame, and improve his speed.
That would take him 2 pre-seasons to do.
The question also has to be asked, as to why he hasn't already?
My point is, maybe he'd already given up a little?
5 years is enough of a period of time where you may of thought the dream was pretty much over?
I think he has shown he is willing to work hard, he is already attempting to play a Saints style of footy, and working on the things that Ross wants like pressure.
He also very accurate in front of goal.
I'd personally give him another preseason, especially while the likes of Siposs develop.
There's nothing wrong with his size or strength - and we do need medium sized forwards.
His main draw back is his speed (which can't be improved or only marginally be improved at best - you're born with that - the fast/twitch muscles ) and agility... but he was smart and very effective against a low ranked side in Port Adelaide.
samoht wrote:There's nothing wrong with his size or strength - and we do need medium sized forwards.
His main draw back is his speed (which can't be improved or only marginally be improved at best - you're born with that - the fast/twitch muscles ) and agility... but he was smart and very effective against a low ranked side in Port Adelaide.
But I think that's why there is an issue with his size and strength!
If he was stronger and bigger, his lack of pace wouldn't be as much of an issue.
Likewise, if he was quicker his lack of strength and size wouldn't be as much of an issue!
BigMart wrote:He is s***......well maybe not s***, but only just a player....will get founder out by bigger defenders
Arryn or johnson would have kicked 4 against that rabble...
Nick running around unfit and at 70% kicked 4....
Who said nick was 70% fit. thats right of course he was because you said he would miss through injury so he couldnt of been fit. Anyway that is a great thing to say about gamble.
gringo wrote:I think if he had been a Will Johnson, Siposs or Archer and had come out and had those stats we would be hailing the new messiah, but as a recycled player Saints fans want to know the catch...
You're right about the Johnson, Siposs thing, we would be going bananas if they had kicked 4, we are blinded by the youth aspect......
Definitely this. Any of the 'younger ones' kicking 4 and having 17 poss would have caused raptures. And yet Johnson is 21 and Gamble 23 (concede Johnson hasn't been given much of a go)
Good on Gamble for taking his opportunities...
gringo wrote:I think if he had been a Will Johnson, Siposs or Archer and had come out and had those stats we would be hailing the new messiah, but as a recycled player Saints fans want to know the catch...
You're right about the Johnson, Siposs thing, we would be going bananas if they had kicked 4, we are blinded by the youth aspect......
Definitely this. Any of the 'younger ones' kicking 4 and having 17 poss would have caused raptures. And yet Johnson is 21 and Gamble 23 (concede Johnson hasn't been given much of a go)
Good on Gamble for taking his opportunities...
Agree.
I think it's a combination of the youth aspect but also the perception that because a player has been rejected by his previous club he will never be capable of being anything other than a GOP. An untried kid on the other hand may just turn out to be the next (insert name here).
What did the club expect from Gamble? Probably exactly what he's produced to date. Therefore why not offer another year
It isn't just perception, it's history, not many players that get rejected from a club turn into better than average footballers, which we know very well…
Pattinson, C Gardiner, Birss, McGough etc etc.
I definitely wouldn't be giving Gamble another year at this stage, he is at a peak age and therefor needs to play well consistently and against the best, otherwise he is just another clogger…
Same goes for Will Johnson, if he plays 20-30 games and really doesn't look up to it then we keep searching.
It does seem as though Gamble is being given a chance over Johnson, even though it sounds like Johnson has been better at Sandy. Maybe Ross thinks Gamble's AFL experience puts him in front for now…
I would have thought 23-27 would be peak,
What do you think?
I think you can improve at this age, it's still young IMO, and plenty of footballers have.
I agree that you can improve after 23, but in my book if you aren't able to consistently string together a decent amount of games after 5-6 years in the system then you can't just hope that it will happen in the future, the lists are just too short these days to carry players for years that you hope will improve considerably down the track.
I reckon he'll need to show real steel against the top 8 sides if he wants to stay on the list, otherwise what's the point in looking awesome when we are flogging the also-rans? doughnuts.
Bradley and Brown you could count as ruckmen (big men at least),
Swan was pretty good before - now great obviously
Guerra - yeah I spose, he was decent at the saints though…
Stanley - I haven't seen enough - is he good now?
Bradley and Brown you could count as ruckmen (big men at least),
Swan was pretty good before - now great obviously
Guerra - yeah I spose, he was decent at the saints though…
Stanley - I haven't seen enough - is he good now?
Yes I notice Stanley (G Coast) is having is best season, on stats anyway, from a fringe player at Coll.
Cheers plugger...
I was so disappointed nick played, it really hurt my 'cred' on saintsational.....a rep i live and die by.....
Am I allowed to predict player selections.....i
Am I allowed to get them wrong, right or whatever...this is a discussion forum...
I just loved how you came into the argument with, how dare you try and comment on selection, you have no idea....
Fact is, i was not far off.....nick is clearly not close to 100% and hasent been for 18 months and manages his knee.....geary got very close, which i thought he would....and armo is going to be out of the team a week later than i thought....do you disagree with that......oh that right, you never make your own comments....just comment on others
And also
Im allowed to have an opinion on Gamble.....arent I....isnt this the right forum for giving opinions on players......correct me if im wrong.....since you are the gatekeeper here, who decides upon what is allowed to be said....
I dont rate him....he was the beneficiary of a dominant midfield on sunday, but je did well....in one game....that 4 out of 13 including sandy, where he has done ok...
BigMart wrote:James Gwilt
Sam Fisher
Clint Jones
Zac Dawson
Don't think I can pay any of those…
Gwilt is only 24, has been good for a couple of years
Fisher has always been good, has got even better (like Hayes)
Jones was decent with flaws, before and after 23
Dawson @ 25 is doing the same things this year as he was 2 years ago
BigMart wrote:James Gwilt
Sam Fisher
Clint Jones
Zac Dawson
Brenon Goddard went from good to Elite
Cheers plugger...
I was so disappointed nick played, it really hurt my 'cred' on saintsational.....a rep i live and die by.....
Am I allowed to predict player selections.....i
Am I allowed to get them wrong, right or whatever...this is a discussion forum...
I just loved how you came into the argument with, how dare you try and comment on selection, you have no idea....
Fact is, i was not far off.....nick is clearly not close to 100% and hasent been for 18 months and manages his knee.....geary got very close, which i thought he would....and armo is going to be out of the team a week later than i thought....do you disagree with that......oh that right, you never make your own comments....just comment on others
And also
Im allowed to have an opinion on Gamble.....arent I....isnt this the right forum for giving opinions on players......correct me if im wrong.....since you are the gatekeeper here, who decides upon what is allowed to be said....
I dont rate him....he was the beneficiary of a dominant midfield on sunday, but je did well....in one game....that 4 out of 13 including sandy, where he has done ok...
You just dont get it do you. Anyone is allowed to predict and like many I get most wrong. The difference is you posted a thread basically saying you have got it right even though the final side hadnt been picked. And yes you can have an opinion on Gamble. I certainly did after the first game. Again the difference is you called him s*** after kicking 4 goals. That is just plain stupid.
You have just asked who went from ordinary to good at 23
James Gwilt
In the VFL in 2009 at 22....not in best 22...his only games were as an inconsistent fwd
Won the most improved in 2010 and played every game and was critical at 23
Zac dawson
Delisted from hawthorn at 22
Recruited by stk and cemented a spot in 22 at 23
Sam Fisher
At casey fo the most of 2004, when he was 22.....was an improving player in 2005 at 23 , in 2006 he went to third in the b&f at 24
Clinto Jones
Played 3 games at 23 as a running winger, a further 9 in the same role in 2008 at 24....was never going to make it, then ross switched him to a tagging role where he was almost the best in the AFL
I was actially surprised that i was close on prediction.....most had forgotton geary, siposs was not pressing and most thought mini was on the outer....but i took a stab and was around the mark.....the following post was quite tongue in cheek....but i continued with it, because as usual.....here comes plugger to put everything....
Why is calling gamble not much chop stupid......what, because he kicked 4 goals....does that make him better than two weeks ago does it....
AcklAnd played good games, brooks kicked 3 against brisbane, allan murray 4 against hawthorn, charle Gardiner played two very good games....the list goes on.....
He actually played a handful of good games at geelong too.....they delisted him.
(concede Johnson hasn't been given much of a go)