Changing coaches has been a failure, IMHFO.

[Teflon]

The reason they sacked Ratten was because they believed he didn't set the standards required to make the long term improvements required by the club and players. He was at the club for three years and in that time we went nowhere.

As supporters we want the quick turnaround of course we do, but realistically we won't know if the coaching change was a success for a couple of years.

Correct

Last 8 years’ ladder positions: 9th, 9th, 6th, 14th, 16th, 10th, 9th, 14th.

Not sure that coaching is the problem. They have tried a host of coaches with this list, and with the exception of a slight overachievement in 2020, the team has finished no better than 9th.

We are on track to finish exactly where this list has been for the last 8 years.

Lyon wasn’t brought in to fix this in 18 games he’s been brought in to stop the rot with poor training standards and lack of discipline. For those whingeing about “his game plan” you didn’t whinge at start of the season when we scored well and were no 1 for transition. Lyon is on record saying that’s the way he wants us to play to get back to that …what you’re seeing now isn’t by design of the coach it is by poor decision making and skill execution by players with our so-called leaders the worst offenders

[samuraisaint]

I think the same players who let down Ratts are letting down RL.

One thing I have been happy with both last year, and this year, is that we are seeing a lot of our first- and second-year players getting plenty of opportunities.

Even our rookies are getting their chances which is a positive. Gold Coast Suns yesterday relied a lot on mature aged recruits, whereas we tended to be led on field by players who have only played 20 games or something.

Unfortunately our forward line is still a shambles. Yesterday, and not for the first time, it looked like an Auskick forward line with kids standing around not tackling and not going to ground to try to pick up the ball. The ease with which the Suns (and every other team we have played since the Swans) defenders walk the ball out of defense is really frustrating to watch. What are they being told to do?

IMO I think they should try bringing a ruckman, like Campbell in to battle Goldstein, which would allow Marshall to play CHF. They should also bring in Hayes to play in the square and offer a target. he will give North something to think about, that's for sure. Leave Sharman as half forward flanker for his leading - and accurate kicking, and hopefully Higgins is right to come back.
And the midfielder with the most turnovers yesterday to be replaced by Bytel.

We should win the next two weeks and then hopefully get some players back - or at least other teams might suffer some natural attrition which would bring them back to our level.

[saynta]

The squad is not Ross's fault. He took on a team with poor skills and hasn't improved them in any way. Maybe he needs more time to improve the skills.
I do not blame the coach for our win loss record and I don't know if we would have won more or less with Ratts.
However, what cannot be excused is that he has come in and changed our style to be the hardest to watch in the comp. We play anti-football. I actually think that Ross hates the game because he seems to want to make it almost unwatchable.
I watched us get spanked week in week out in the eighties but even then I didn't hate watching football now with Ross I do. Let's not forget that in the end football and all sport is meant to be entertainment. Ross doesn't understand that and for that reason I would happily see the back of him.

Plus one.

[SydneySainter]

Agreed.

I think this year has proven that Ratts wasn’t necessarily the problem, but the list in general (11 years of ham-fisted recruiting to thank for that).

Where the club really made their epic fail moves was first extending Ratts’ contract for a further two years on the back of some early wins. Then, panicked and sacked him less than 6 months later.

That is poor administration at an executive level if I have ever seen it.

[saynta]

Richmond were lower than us in 2016. The following year they won the flag (In fact, we flogged them in Rd 15 of that same year.)

Melbourne were lower than us in 2020 (we made the finals and they didn't). The following year they won the flag.

Collingwood were lower than us in 2021. Now they're flag favourites and we're loking likely to drop out of the eight.

Who from the lower ranks is going to fly past us next year? GWS?? Hell, maybe this year?

Why this weary cycle of treading water? Or worse, false dawns followed by total collapse?

You got the false dawn bit right and in fact beat me to it.

Despite what the optimists and bull s*** spreaders would have you believe this side is going nowhere, and going nowhere pretty fast too.

Ross the boss is certainly no messiah and I always knew that. Someone posted that he is an old fashioned coach and he certainly is that. He has outlived his usefulness IMHFO.

I am however extremely disappointed in his assistants. I thought it was them and not Lyon who would improve us this year.

[saynta]

IMO I think they should try bringing a ruckman, like Campbell in to battle Goldstein, which would allow Marshall to play CHF. They should also bring in Hayes to play in the square and offer a target. he will give North something to think about, that's for sure. Leave Sharman as half forward flanker for his leading - and accurate kicking, and hopefully Higgins is right to come back.
And the midfielder with the most turnovers yesterday to be replaced by Bytel.

We should win the next two weeks and then hopefully get some players back - or at least other teams might suffer some natural attrition which would bring them back to our level.

At last someone with a bit of footy nous.

[Sanctorum]

One dreadful loss at the hands of a team that we all thought St Kilda would beat (especially after playing an attacking brand of footy last week) and supporters are throwing their toys out of the cot.

I was at the game yesterday and certainly agree that it was excruciating to watch, up there with the poor performances against Adelaide and Hawthorn.

It was entirely predictable that the Suns would come out all guns blazing yesterday, it was after all another instance of a team going all out to win after sacking the coach, and to that extent I was half expecting that St Kilda would lose.

A perennial question - was it the players or the coach?

That could be asked as well of Carlton, did Michael Voss turn the team's fortune around so impressively, or did the players take that upon themselves?

I would suggest it was the players.

Coaches prepare their teams to go out and win, to execute the game plan to the letter.

Once the players run on to the field it's up to them to play as a team, man up to contest the mark against their opponent, pass the ball expertly to their team mates, kick straight for goals. Coaches can only watch on in horror and frustration when that fails - like when Byrnes was running on the wing in open space heading to the forwards and doing a little dolly kick straight to a Suns player. I saw 5 year old Auskick kids do better than that at the halftime break!

One thing that the anti-Lyon factiion on here needs to understand is this: Ross Lyon will be the coach for another 3 years after this, so you're going be suffering for a bloody long time!

My advice is to do this in silence because no matter how much you rant and rage, it will make not one iota of difference.

It might even be harmful for your health which is important because as sure as God made little green apples, St Kilda will be a serious contender in the next 3 years, and I'd hate anyone to miss out!

As for the position going forward in the remaining 6 games, I would imagine the players will be endeavouring to make a strong response next week, but even if they do that has to be tempered with the reality that overall their skill levels continue to be sub-standard.

[Vortex]

One dreadful loss at the hands of a team that we all thought St Kilda would beat (especially after playing an attacking brand of footy last week) and supporters are throwing their toys out of the cot.

I was at the game yesterday and certainly agree that it was excruciating to watch, up there with the poor performances against Adelaide and Hawthorn.

It was entirely predictable that the Suns would come out all guns blazing yesterday, it was after all another instance of a team going all out to win after sacking the coach, and to that extent I was half expecting that St Kilda would lose.

A perennial question - was it the players or the coach?

That could be asked as well of Carlton, did Michael Voss turn the team's fortune around so impressively, or did the players take that upon themselves?

I would suggest it was the players.

Coaches prepare their teams to go out and win, to execute the game plan to the letter.

Once the players run on to the field it's up to them to play as a team, man up to contest the mark against their opponent, pass the ball expertly to their team mates, kick straight for goals. Coaches can only watch on in horror and frustration when that fails - like when Byrnes was running on the wing in open space heading to the forwards and doing a little dolly kick straight to a Suns player. I saw 5 year old Auskick kids do better than that at the halftime break!

One thing that the anti-Lyon factiion on here needs to understand is this: Ross Lyon will be the coach for another 3 years after this, so you're going be suffering for a bloody long time!

My advice is to do this in silence because no matter how much you rant and rage, it will make not one iota of difference.

It might even be harmful for your health which is important because as sure as God made little green apples, St Kilda will be a serious contender in the next 3 years, and I'd hate anyone to miss out!

As for the position going forward in the remaining 6 games, I would imagine the players will be endeavouring to make a strong response next week, but even if they do that has to be tempered with the reality that overall their skill levels continue to be sub-standard.

God did not make little green apples

[Scollop]

One dreadful loss at the hands of a team that we all thought St Kilda would beat (especially after playing an attacking brand of footy last week) and supporters are throwing their toys out of the cot.

I was at the game yesterday and certainly agree that it was excruciating to watch, up there with the poor performances against Adelaide and Hawthorn.

It was entirely predictable that the Suns would come out all guns blazing yesterday, it was after all another instance of a team going all out to win after sacking the coach, and to that extent I was half expecting that St Kilda would lose.

A perennial question - was it the players or the coach?

That could be asked as well of Carlton, did Michael Voss turn the team's fortune around so impressively, or did the players take that upon themselves?

I would suggest it was the players.

Coaches prepare their teams to go out and win, to execute the game plan to the letter.

Once the players run on to the field it's up to them to play as a team, man up to contest the mark against their opponent, pass the ball expertly to their team mates, kick straight for goals. Coaches can only watch on in horror and frustration when that fails - like when Byrnes was running on the wing in open space heading to the forwards and doing a little dolly kick straight to a Suns player. I saw 5 year old Auskick kids do better than that at the halftime break!

One thing that the anti-Lyon factiion on here needs to understand is this: Ross Lyon will be the coach for another 3 years after this, so you're going be suffering for a bloody long time!

My advice is to do this in silence because no matter how much you rant and rage, it will make not one iota of difference.

It might even be harmful for your health which is important because as sure as God made little green apples, St Kilda will be a serious contender in the next 3 years, and I'd hate anyone to miss out!

As for the position going forward in the remaining 6 games, I would imagine the players will be endeavouring to make a strong response next week, but even if they do that has to be tempered with the reality that overall their skill levels continue to be sub-standard.

God did not make little green apples

This is a thread telling the believers and followers of the Messiah, not to trust or follow their Messiah

What do you think the 'In Ross we Trust brigade' are going to do? That's right... they're going to chew on God's little green and follow their shepherd

[saynta]

One dreadful loss at the hands of a team that we all thought St Kilda would beat (especially after playing an attacking brand of footy last week) and supporters are throwing their toys out of the cot.

I was at the game yesterday and certainly agree that it was excruciating to watch, up there with the poor performances against Adelaide and Hawthorn.

It was entirely predictable that the Suns would come out all guns blazing yesterday, it was after all another instance of a team going all out to win after sacking the coach, and to that extent I was half expecting that St Kilda would lose.

A perennial question - was it the players or the coach?

That could be asked as well of Carlton, did Michael Voss turn the team's fortune around so impressively, or did the players take that upon themselves?

I would suggest it was the players.

Coaches prepare their teams to go out and win, to execute the game plan to the letter.

Once the players run on to the field it's up to them to play as a team, man up to contest the mark against their opponent, pass the ball expertly to their team mates, kick straight for goals. Coaches can only watch on in horror and frustration when that fails - like when Byrnes was running on the wing in open space heading to the forwards and doing a little dolly kick straight to a Suns player. I saw 5 year old Auskick kids do better than that at the halftime break!

One thing that the anti-Lyon factiion on here needs to understand is this: Ross Lyon will be the coach for another 3 years after this, so you're going be suffering for a bloody long time!

My advice is to do this in silence because no matter how much you rant and rage, it will make not one iota of difference.

It might even be harmful for your health which is important because as sure as God made little green apples, St Kilda will be a serious contender in the next 3 years, and I'd hate anyone to miss out!

As for the position going forward in the remaining 6 games, I would imagine the players will be endeavouring to make a strong response next week, but even if they do that has to be tempered with the reality that overall their skill levels continue to be sub-standard.

Time will tell or you could say. " we will see'.

One thing is for sure though. If the players keep putting up s*** , inept, disgraceful performances like yesterday, nothing will save Lyon's neck from the

chop and rightfully so. The prez is not one to tolerate rubbish.

And for the record, I refuse to stay silent as I have done so for far to long.

[saynta]

One dreadful loss at the hands of a team that we all thought St Kilda would beat (especially after playing an attacking brand of footy last week) and supporters are throwing their toys out of the cot.

I was at the game yesterday and certainly agree that it was excruciating to watch, up there with the poor performances against Adelaide and Hawthorn.

It was entirely predictable that the Suns would come out all guns blazing yesterday, it was after all another instance of a team going all out to win after sacking the coach, and to that extent I was half expecting that St Kilda would lose.

A perennial question - was it the players or the coach?

That could be asked as well of Carlton, did Michael Voss turn the team's fortune around so impressively, or did the players take that upon themselves?

I would suggest it was the players.

Coaches prepare their teams to go out and win, to execute the game plan to the letter.

Once the players run on to the field it's up to them to play as a team, man up to contest the mark against their opponent, pass the ball expertly to their team mates, kick straight for goals. Coaches can only watch on in horror and frustration when that fails - like when Byrnes was running on the wing in open space heading to the forwards and doing a little dolly kick straight to a Suns player. I saw 5 year old Auskick kids do better than that at the halftime break!

One thing that the anti-Lyon factiion on here needs to understand is this: Ross Lyon will be the coach for another 3 years after this, so you're going be suffering for a bloody long time!

My advice is to do this in silence because no matter how much you rant and rage, it will make not one iota of difference.

It might even be harmful for your health which is important because as sure as God made little green apples, St Kilda will be a serious contender in the next 3 years, and I'd hate anyone to miss out!

As for the position going forward in the remaining 6 games, I would imagine the players will be endeavouring to make a strong response next week, but even if they do that has to be tempered with the reality that overall their skill levels continue to be sub-standard.

God did not make little green apples

You going to claim credit for "them' apples too.

[longtimesaint]

Isn’t it likely that it’s nothing to do with the coaches but simply that the continued injuries have finally caught up with us.
Looking at the forward line we are missed King, Membrey, Billings and Higgins replaced with three 19 y,o and an 18 y.o.
These kids covered in the early rounds but are now getting very tired and sore.
The midfield has had a banged up Steele and now Ross out as well with Clark just coming back.
Not a single game this year from Coffield, McKenzie and Hayes, and no real support for Marshall.
We need to draft and recruit well this next off season.

[The Fireman]

I like green apples

[Teflon]

Agreed.

I think this year has proven that Ratts wasn’t necessarily the problem, but the list in general (11 years of ham-fisted recruiting to thank for that).

Where the club really made their epic fail moves was first extending Ratts’ contract for a further two years on the back of some early wins. Then, panicked and sacked him less than 6 months later.

That is poor administration at an executive level if I have ever seen it.

Except that ignores Ratten had 3 years to change that and failed
From those inside the club and who attend training regularly there is now daylight between our professionalism and expected standards from Ratten to Lyon
Can the list ills, poor habits from so called senior leaders be exorcised in 18 games ?
Of course not
But don’t let that fool you into thinking we were “going places “ under Brett cause we weren’t and I trust the view from those in the know here and on BF I’ve heard that from on multiple occasions
I genuinely believe we now have a coaching panel in place who will set clear expectations
It’s now on them to gut this list and weed out the pretenders who’ve been taking us all for a ride for 10 years
It’s piss or get off the pot time !

[The G Train Legacy]

Changing coaches has been a failure...

Depends

What are you looking at? The ladder? Win loss ratio? Have training standards improved? Have injury rates declined?

Do we look like we're playing better football than 2022?

If you're in the membership and sales departments are they happy?

Is Lethlean and Bassatt happy?

Even posing that question 18 games into an injury riddled season is ridiculous.

[Teflon]

Isn’t it likely that it’s nothing to do with the coaches but simply that the continued injuries have finally caught up with us.
Looking at the forward line we are missed King, Membrey, Billings and Higgins replaced with three 19 y,o and an 18 y.o.
These kids covered in the early rounds but are now getting very tired and sore.
The midfield has had a banged up Steele and now Ross out as well with Clark just coming back.
Not a single game this year from Coffield, McKenzie and Hayes, and no real support for Marshall.
We need to draft and recruit well this next off season.

Agree I think the next 2 off seasons ultimately determine our fate for the next 5/7 years and Lyons
He gets it wrong he’s gone and he should be

[Teflon]

Changing coaches has been a failure...

Depends

What are you looking at? The ladder? Win loss ratio? Have training standards improved? Have injury rates declined?

Do we look like we're playing better football than 2022?

If you're in the membership and sales departments are they happy?

Is Lethlean and Bassatt happy?

Even posing that question 18 games into an injury riddled season is ridiculous.

It is
It’s click bait posting but mods do little

[The G Train Legacy]

Imagine if we'd had King; Higgins, Membrey, Billings, DMac, Coffield, Hayes and Jones available and healthy for most of the season.

Would we still be 9-8? I think not. Where would we be?

[Teflon]

One dreadful loss at the hands of a team that we all thought St Kilda would beat (especially after playing an attacking brand of footy last week) and supporters are throwing their toys out of the cot.

I was at the game yesterday and certainly agree that it was excruciating to watch, up there with the poor performances against Adelaide and Hawthorn.

It was entirely predictable that the Suns would come out all guns blazing yesterday, it was after all another instance of a team going all out to win after sacking the coach, and to that extent I was half expecting that St Kilda would lose.

A perennial question - was it the players or the coach?

That could be asked as well of Carlton, did Michael Voss turn the team's fortune around so impressively, or did the players take that upon themselves?

I would suggest it was the players.

Coaches prepare their teams to go out and win, to execute the game plan to the letter.

Once the players run on to the field it's up to them to play as a team, man up to contest the mark against their opponent, pass the ball expertly to their team mates, kick straight for goals. Coaches can only watch on in horror and frustration when that fails - like when Byrnes was running on the wing in open space heading to the forwards and doing a little dolly kick straight to a Suns player. I saw 5 year old Auskick kids do better than that at the halftime break!

One thing that the anti-Lyon factiion on here needs to understand is this: Ross Lyon will be the coach for another 3 years after this, so you're going be suffering for a bloody long time!

My advice is to do this in silence because no matter how much you rant and rage, it will make not one iota of difference.

It might even be harmful for your health which is important because as sure as God made little green apples, St Kilda will be a serious contender in the next 3 years, and I'd hate anyone to miss out!

As for the position going forward in the remaining 6 games, I would imagine the players will be endeavouring to make a strong response next week, but even if they do that has to be tempered with the reality that overall their skill levels continue to be sub-standard.

What superb, rational and well thought out post
Wasted on this site.
Still good to read
And those who don’t like green apples are gonna be in for a guts ache for the next 3 years
Suck it up as they say cause the rest of us are strapped in for the ride

[The Fireman]

to all the RTB knockers.. and yes I'm an RTB fanboy so you can throw as much s*** as you like at me now..but I'm confident in time the s*** will be coming back the other way and we'll hear the old chestnut.."Glad I was wrong "

book mark it and come back to me at the end of next season....if we havent improved massively then line up and give it to me.

I'm confident that i'm safe in the meantime continue with the negative moaning and coach bashing.

[Teflon]

to all the RTB knockers.. and yes I'm an RTB fanboy so you can throw as much s*** as you like at me now..but I'm confident in time the s*** will be coming back the other way and we'll hear the old chestnut.."Glad I was wrong "

book mark it and come back to me at the end of next season....if we havent improved massively then line up and give it to me.

I'm confident that i'm safe in the meantime continue with the negative moaning and coach bashing.

Hear hear Firey I’m with you
I’ve got my little black poster book out …for when they come crawling back and they will …
If not? happy to cop the fallout

[maverick]

Anyone that doesn’t think the change of the coach has made any difference have short memories from last year.
We were shocking last year in too many games and lost by big margins.
Wonder what we would have been like this year with last years injury run….
We have more players in their way to A grade than last year, there was very little player improvement last year.
The gap between our best and worst effort has significantly closed.
Our defence is much better.
Our attack has been decimated with injury
Our midfield is the worst in the league.
That’s what needs fixing

[saynta]

Isn’t it likely that it’s nothing to do with the coaches but simply that the continued injuries have finally caught up with us.
Looking at the forward line we are missed King, Membrey, Billings and Higgins replaced with three 19 y,o and an 18 y.o.
These kids covered in the early rounds but are now getting very tired and sore.
The midfield has had a banged up Steele and now Ross out as well with Clark just coming back.
Not a single game this year from Coffield, McKenzie and Hayes, and no real support for Marshall.
We need to draft and recruit well this next off season.

Yeah, I hear what you are saying, but at least the selectors could have tried something a bit different. Here's a thought, Give Campbell and Bytel a game or two since they are way too good for the VFL. They have been starring for weeks. But the selectors have turned their backs on both of them.I have yet to see a valid reason

IF they are good enough to be named as emergencies and as a sub in Bytel's case they are at least good enough to earn a shot at the big time.

[saynta]

Changing coaches has been a failure...

Depends

What are you looking at? The ladder? Win loss ratio? Have training standards improved? Have injury rates declined?

Do we look like we're playing better football than 2022?

If you're in the membership and sales departments are they happy?

Is Lethlean and Bassatt happy?

Even posing that question 18 games into an injury riddled season is ridiculous.

It is
It’s click bait posting but mods do little

Posters are entitled to express their own opinions on footy matters without interference from the mods even with you running off to them every day ffs.

[SydneySainter]

Agreed.

I think this year has proven that Ratts wasn’t necessarily the problem, but the list in general (11 years of ham-fisted recruiting to thank for that).

Where the club really made their epic fail moves was first extending Ratts’ contract for a further two years on the back of some early wins. Then, panicked and sacked him less than 6 months later.

That is poor administration at an executive level if I have ever seen it.

Except that ignores Ratten had 3 years to change that and failed
From those inside the club and who attend training regularly there is now daylight between our professionalism and expected standards from Ratten to Lyon
Can the list ills, poor habits from so called senior leaders be exorcised in 18 games ?
Of course not
But don’t let that fool you into thinking we were “going places “ under Brett cause we weren’t and I trust the view from those in the know here and on BF I’ve heard that from on multiple occasions
I genuinely believe we now have a coaching panel in place who will set clear expectations
It’s now on them to gut this list and weed out the pretenders who’ve been taking us all for a ride for 10 years
It’s piss or get off the pot time !

That doesn’t change the fact that the boof-heads who sacked Ratts in favour of Lyon were the same boof-heads who reappointed Ratts for a further two years less than 6 months prior (minus Finnis of course).

Who in the know is saying that the professional has gone up several years? Tony? First he was behind Richo as being the man, then Ratts and now it’s Lyon in the club’s year of discovery - let’s see just how badly we botched the last 11 years?

Anything anyone in the know has to say is to be taken with a grain of salt until the onfield performance does the talking.