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Sanctorum wrote: ↑Tue 13 Jun 2023 3:01pm
Back to the original topic, my vote for worst draft selection of all time was in 2006 when St Kilda took David Armitage, a relatively unknown from Mackay in Qld, ahead of Jack Riewoldt who had expressed a strong desire to team up with his older cousin at Moorabbin.
Became an absolute star....just imagine if he had played for the Saints in the 2010 GF, the year he kicked 78 goals for Richmond!!!
Even prior to the draft, midfielders like Armitage are a dime-a-dozen. He was no Judd by any stretch.
Good key position forwards, however, are very rare.
Of course the other reason not taking Jack Riewoldt was a huge blunder is that Jack was a key forward, so it is most unlikely the club would have selected Paddy McCartin over Christian Petracca in 2014.
I recall that one of the main reasons they settled on Paddy was as a replacement for when Nick Riewoldt retired.
"Any candidate for political office, once chosen for leadership, must have the will to take the wheel of a very powerful car, tasked from time to time to make a fast journey down a narrow, precipitous mountain road – and be highly skilled at driving. Otherwise, he is disqualified from the company of competent leaders."
John Carroll, Professor Emeritus of Sociology at La Trobe University.
Sanctorum wrote: ↑Tue 13 Jun 2023 3:01pm
Back to the original topic, my vote for worst draft selection of all time was in 2006 when St Kilda took David Armitage, a relatively unknown from Mackay in Qld, ahead of Jack Riewoldt who had expressed a strong desire to team up with his older cousin at Moorabbin.
Became an absolute star....just imagine if he had played for the Saints in the 2010 GF, the year he kicked 78 goals for Richmond!!!
Even prior to the draft, midfielders like Armitage are a dime-a-dozen. He was no Judd by any stretch.
Good key position forwards, however, are very rare.
Of course the other reason not taking Jack Riewoldt was a huge blunder is that Jack was a key forward, so it is most unlikely the club would have selected Paddy McCartin over Christian Petracca in 2014.
I recall that one of the main reasons they settled on Paddy was as a replacement for when Nick Riewoldt retired.
With the dynasty that we would have built by picking Jack Riewoldt…
There’s no way we would have had pick one at that draft
B.M wrote: ↑Thu 15 Jun 2023 9:09am
If we want A Grade talent
Goodbye to this years first round pick and maybe next years
It’s a big gamble!
Why not just use the selections to add talent to the list
Only A Graders I’d go after are FAs
Trading - I’d target under valued players for 2nd or 3rd round picks.
You should ALWAYS use your first round pick!
Well said, 100% agree.
The only thing I would add is we need to be careful of the amount we pay these FAs / RFAs because it seems we have some young talent to secure & if their trajectories continue they will rightly attract attention and command big dollars.
Money splurgers over Hannebery / Hill hurt a club as much as losing / wasting draft picks.
I’m a big believer that by and large, you have to build the list first and then look at a big name $$$ like a surgical strike to address a very specific problem
In a sense… what we did with Andrew Lovett in 09 was spot on (except we paid overs and he was just a terrible choice for obvious reasons).
Collingwood nailed it that year getting Darren Jolly and Luke Ball albeit they didn’t pay over overs for them
Sanctorum wrote: ↑Tue 13 Jun 2023 3:01pm
Back to the original topic, my vote for worst draft selection of all time was in 2006 when St Kilda took David Armitage, a relatively unknown from Mackay in Qld, ahead of Jack Riewoldt who had expressed a strong desire to team up with his older cousin at Moorabbin.
Became an absolute star....just imagine if he had played for the Saints in the 2010 GF, the year he kicked 78 goals for Richmond!!!
Even prior to the draft, midfielders like Armitage are a dime-a-dozen. He was no Judd by any stretch.
Good key position forwards, however, are very rare.
Of course the other reason not taking Jack Riewoldt was a huge blunder is that Jack was a key forward, so it is most unlikely the club would have selected Paddy McCartin over Christian Petracca in 2014.
I recall that one of the main reasons they settled on Paddy was as a replacement for when Nick Riewoldt retired.
With the dynasty that we would have built by picking Jack Riewoldt…
There’s no way we would have had pick one at that draft
That's true skeptic but even at 29 & 30 in 2014 were Touk Miller and Brayden Maynard....at 21 & 22 St Kilda took Hugh Goddard and Daniel McKenzie, at 41 they took Jack Lonie ahead of Caleb Daniel at 46. Is there a worse year for St Kilda's talent spotters than 2014
"Any candidate for political office, once chosen for leadership, must have the will to take the wheel of a very powerful car, tasked from time to time to make a fast journey down a narrow, precipitous mountain road – and be highly skilled at driving. Otherwise, he is disqualified from the company of competent leaders."
John Carroll, Professor Emeritus of Sociology at La Trobe University.
Sanctorum wrote: ↑Tue 13 Jun 2023 3:01pm
Back to the original topic, my vote for worst draft selection of all time was in 2006 when St Kilda took David Armitage, a relatively unknown from Mackay in Qld, ahead of Jack Riewoldt who had expressed a strong desire to team up with his older cousin at Moorabbin.
Became an absolute star....just imagine if he had played for the Saints in the 2010 GF, the year he kicked 78 goals for Richmond!!!
Even prior to the draft, midfielders like Armitage are a dime-a-dozen. He was no Judd by any stretch.
Good key position forwards, however, are very rare.
Of course the other reason not taking Jack Riewoldt was a huge blunder is that Jack was a key forward, so it is most unlikely the club would have selected Paddy McCartin over Christian Petracca in 2014.
I recall that one of the main reasons they settled on Paddy was as a replacement for when Nick Riewoldt retired.
With the dynasty that we would have built by picking Jack Riewoldt…
There’s no way we would have had pick one at that draft
That's true skeptic but even at 29 & 30 in 2014 were Touk Miller and Brayden Maynard....at 21 & 22 St Kilda took Hugh Goddard and Daniel McKenzie, at 41 they took Jack Lonie ahead of Caleb Daniel at 46. Is there a worse year for St Kilda's talent spotters than 2014
I was ropable about Caleb Daniels, let me tell you. For sure I’d have taken him with one of those 20s picks and I thought it was a slam dunk when he slipped to 46.
I didn’t know Lonie but someone here did one of those please not Lonie posts, hence i went from elation to disappointment really quick
Lonie was rated as a late second round/early third round selection
He was VIC Country MVP at the u18 championships (a team that included McCartin)
He had a great year for Dandenong Stingrays
Very obvious selection at 41
Went on to play 90 games and kick 80 goals and had a handy career as a small forward - similar to McQualter.
Daniel would have been a great selection and had a terrific draft year but 6cm shorter and 3kg less than Lonie, and a player who’d played predominantly as a mid - the query was
Could he play as a mid at that size, and could he play as a small forward?
Richardson was worried he would be ‘rag dolled’
They took the small that had the runs on the board as a forward
B.M wrote: ↑Thu 15 Jun 2023 5:40pm
Lonie was rated as a late second round/early third round selection
He was VIC Country MVP at the u18 championships (a team that included McCartin)
He had a great year for Dandenong Stingrays
Very obvious selection at 41
Went on to play 90 games and kick 80 goals and had a handy career as a small forward - similar to McQualter.
Daniel would have been a great selection and had a terrific draft year but 6cm shorter and 3kg less than Lonie, and a player who’d played predominantly as a mid - the query was
Could he play as a mid at that size, and could he play as a small forward?
Richardson was worried he would be ‘rag dolled’
They took the small that had the runs on the board as a forward
The move to HB for Daniel was genius by the Dogs
Not having a crack at Lonie as a selection… he just wasn’t one of the players I followed in the lead up to that particular draft and hence knew nothing about him.
Caleb I watched and read about quite a bit… was a pure footballer, clearly could play with the knock being on his size. I thought he had Montagna upside
Even 01 - was great but it could have been dynasty building!
Obviously Judd was available at pick 2
Xav Clarke was taken in 2 selections front of Jimmy Bartel
Stevie J was available at our 2nd selection and we were into him
At 49 Dane Swan was still on the draft board! His TAC Cup GF should’ve seen him selected much higher - what a slider!
We were hoodwinked by WCE over Judd
We wanted Judd and Ball
WCE stated they would take Ball at #3 and had no interest in Judd as he had questionable shoulders.
We thought we had both when we took Ball at #2, knowing our next pick would get Judd.
WCE smiled at John Beveridge when they called out Judd's name at #3
Story told to me (in a room full of people) by John Beveridge
B.M wrote: ↑Thu 15 Jun 2023 5:46pm
A lot of our drafts have been forgettable
Even 01 - was great but it could have been dynasty building!
Obviously Judd was available at pick 2
Xav Clarke was taken in 2 selections front of Jimmy Bartel
Stevie J was available at our 2nd selection and we were into him
At 49 Dane Swan was still on the draft board! His TAC Cup GF should’ve seen him selected much higher - what a slider!
We might have won 5 straight flags?!
You're assuming that all of those players develop at our club into the players they became at their actual clubs.
Bartel and Stevie J, like so many other under the Geelong system developed into amazing players. Not sure they would have under our system.
Any pick at 49 is a crap shoot. You miss way more than you nail. Every club had the chance to get Swan and didn't.
Mr Magic wrote: ↑Thu 15 Jun 2023 6:54pm
We were hoodwinked by WCE over Judd
We wanted Judd and Ball
WCE stated they would take Ball at #3 and had no interest in Judd as he had questionable shoulders.
We thought we had both when we took Ball at #2, knowing our next pick would get Judd.
WCE smiled at John Beveridge when they called out Judd's name at #3
Story told to me (in a room full of people) by John Beveridge
In a $Billion professional sport we got shafted at the National draft because we got sucked in by our competitors. I don't buy it
Or...maybe you are right. Maybe we heard Bulldogs and 4 other clubs were interested in Billings so we took him first.
Maybe we heard Melbourne were interested in McCartin so we took him instead of Petracca
Good strategy by St Kilda. Is that what we do each year? Find out who other clubs might be interested in and then plan our draft picks?
Always easy after the fact
Yawn can’t go back
Be annoyed if our 1st this year is not used to draft best kid
We’ve seen what these kids now can do to a young developing side
B.M wrote: ↑Thu 15 Jun 2023 10:55pm
Bartel and Johnson were champions
Geelong were great because of them
They weren’t great because of Geelong
Great players find a way - regardless
Hayes, Dal, BJ, Roo, Joey - all succeed at StK
Despite the worst facilities in the comp and a threadbare coaching staff
I can name 100s of Champions at poor clubs - talent finds a way
Too simplistic a view.
Geelong's system has stood up for at least two decades. They have a habit of consistently turning out great players. No other club does it better.
I'm not saying that those two blokes wouldn't have been good players at our club. I'm saying that they wouldn't have been as good for us as they were for Geelong.
I wonder if we had the discipline in place to handle a loose cannon like Stevie J in his early years? He almost never made it at the Cats.
Interestingly, if they were operating under the same rules for father/son back then, Geelong wouldn't have ended up with both Bartel and Johnson. Geelong used pick 40 for Gary Ablett Jr.
Under today's system, he would have been bid on in the first round (most likely) and Geelong would have to match the bid.
Mr Magic wrote: ↑Thu 15 Jun 2023 6:54pm
We were hoodwinked by WCE over Judd
We wanted Judd and Ball
WCE stated they would take Ball at #3 and had no interest in Judd as he had questionable shoulders.
We thought we had both when we took Ball at #2, knowing our next pick would get Judd.
WCE smiled at John Beveridge when they called out Judd's name at #3
Story told to me (in a room full of people) by John Beveridge
In a $Billion professional sport we got shafted at the National draft because we got sucked in by our competitors. I don't buy it
Or...maybe you are right. Maybe we heard Bulldogs and 4 other clubs were interested in Billings so we took him first.
Maybe we heard Melbourne were interested in McCartin so we took him instead of Petracca
Good strategy by St Kilda. Is that what we do each year? Find out who other clubs might be interested in and then plan our draft picks?
What don't you understand about Billings vs Bont.
Nobody (apparently) rated Bont over Billings pre-draft. Good on the Bulldogs for seeing something that nobody else did adn getting a champion player.
McCartin over Petracca was an unmitigted disaster on our behalf.
Melbourne were never going to take McCartin - they took Hogan the year before so had no need of another KP forward.
Mr Magic wrote: ↑Fri 16 Jun 2023 10:58am
What don't you understand about Billings vs Bont.
Nobody (apparently) rated Bont over Billings pre-draft. Good on the Bulldogs for seeing something that nobody else did adn getting a champion player.
McCartin over Petracca was an unmitigted disaster on our behalf.
Melbourne were never going to take McCartin - they took Hogan the year before so had no need of another KP forward.
I clearly recall Richo or someone else explaining at the time they drafted Paddy Mac is that he was to take over from Roo as a medium to long term strategy.
Made sense, but I was also aware that prior to the draft the club had done a a lot of research on Christian Petracca, even going to his home to talk with his family, and the media certainly tipped the Saints to take him at pick 1.
"Any candidate for political office, once chosen for leadership, must have the will to take the wheel of a very powerful car, tasked from time to time to make a fast journey down a narrow, precipitous mountain road – and be highly skilled at driving. Otherwise, he is disqualified from the company of competent leaders."
John Carroll, Professor Emeritus of Sociology at La Trobe University.
You win some and lose some in the draft lottery and it doesn’t help to rue missed opportunities. Judd, Petracca, Bont, etc, etc. You could beat yourself and the club up forever.
It’s better to celebrate draft steals such as Owens and guys we picked up from virtually nowhere such as Wilkie and Marshall. Phillipou and NWM also seem pretty solid choices.
