Training- Friday November 25

[Killa]

IF Sharman was such a star why was he playing at Reserves level in the SANFL before being picked up in the mid season draft?

And he played in defence at Geelong because we simply had no height able to be deployed to our defensive structure

When he debuted at AFL level it was because he was the last player left standing after injuries across the List

He was recruited as a project player

Which he remains

Hayes was a consistent performer at SANFL level, overlooked across successive drafts because of his size for the positions he would be played in (so he gets away with it at SANFL level, but at AFL level?)


Time will tell with both

[Teflon]

IF Sharman was such a star why was he playing at Reserves level in the SANFL before being picked up in the mid season draft?

And he played in defence at Geelong because we simply had no height able to be deployed to our defensive structure

When he debuted at AFL level it was because he was the last player left standing after injuries across the List

He was recruited as a project player

Which he remains

Hayes was a consistent performer at SANFL level, overlooked across successive drafts because of his size for the positions he would be played in (so he gets away with it at SANFL level, but at AFL level?)


Time will tell with both

I think that a obvious tbh
It doesn’t matter where he played previously the club saw something they liked for AFL level
Many players have come from lesser leagues to be good league players it will come down to hard work and some luck for Sharman

[Ghost Like]

Whether these players become best 22 should be the pinnacle of their aspirations. The minimum should be they get recognised as Top 25 - 30 and if they are not getting regular senior games they become valuable trade targets.

Where our lists of recent years become underwhelming is that very few players we release are being traded for. We waste initial picks, waste resources and time for players to become hard rubbish.

Finally, Ben Long became the example of what is the minimum we should achieve from time & effort into a player.

[Mr Magic]

IF Sharman was such a star why was he playing at Reserves level in the SANFL before being picked up in the mid season draft?

The answer to that question is obvious.

The SANFL bring the major football competition in the country it’s a natural progression from the SANFL 2’s to the AFL - a step down in class.

[Moods]

Rehab. Won't be running for a while. Back surgery is a serious matter. Bloody tough to come back from it for anyone,let alone an AFL footballer. This is why we had to be patient with Bytel. That injury and surgery basically set him back by 2 years.

That's interesting. The Billings lovers, (who are fast diminishing each year) will have the perfect excuse for him next year. It's not his fault he isn't having an impact, he had back surgery 6 months ago......

Very interesting. So you think Billings should be on the track now, full contact and taking part in all the running drills?

Why do you even have to ask that question? I mean…. That’s exactly what Moods said.

That’t definitely how I read it

My point is there’s always an excuse made for him every year as to why he’s not performing to expectations. Always a reason why he misses a large chunk of pre season. For mine it’s time to deliver. I get he’s injured atm, but after 10 years in the system he needs to be able to have an impact regardless. I just don’t want to hear any excuses/reasons next year as to why he’s been disappointing.

[Vortex]

Project player nails it.

[Scollop]

Rehab. Won't be running for a while. Back surgery is a serious matter. Bloody tough to come back from it for anyone,let alone an AFL footballer. This is why we had to be patient with Bytel. That injury and surgery basically set him back by 2 years.

That's interesting. The Billings lovers, (who are fast diminishing each year) will have the perfect excuse for him next year. It's not his fault he isn't having an impact, he had back surgery 6 months ago......

Very interesting. So you think Billings should be on the track now, full contact and taking part in all the running drills?

Why do you even have to ask that question? I mean…. That’s exactly what Moods said.

That’t definitely how I read it

My point is there’s always an excuse made for him every year as to why he’s not performing to expectations. Always a reason why he misses a large chunk of pre season. For mine it’s time to deliver. I get he’s injured atm, but after 10 years in the system he needs to be able to have an impact regardless. I just don’t want to hear any excuses/reasons next year as to why he’s been disappointing.

I understood exactly what you meant and I fully agree that he’s had enough excuses.

Not sure why GL thanked me…. I should have used some ‘sarcasm’ emojis

Just on the subject of some posters sticking up for certain players…wouldn’t be because they have a conflict of interest or they get a cut from his contract would it?

[Vortex]

Yeah Billings is running out of credit.

Same as Bytel, I'd say this could be their last year at the club unless they both can play at least 18 or more games as they are both in the same club....low on credit.

[Ghost Like]

No need for the sarcasm emojis scollop, I thought you were being sarcastic but you really do agree with moods.

So you and moods actually believe that a person who has undergone back surgery in September should be on the track now, doing all the running drills and any contact drills?

Forget the name of the player, do you really believe missing a full pre season should not have any impact on a player's performance for the season?

That is an interesting insight.

[saynta]

Yeah Billings is running out of credit.

Same as Bytel, I'd say this could be their last year at the club unless they both can play at least 18 or more games as they are both in the same club....low on credit.

so who is going to be your main whipping boy this year Vortex? Is it Sharman, Billings or maybe even Bytel ?

[Scollop]

So you and moods actually believe that a person who has undergone back surgery in September should be on the track now, doing all the running drills and any contact drills?

Again? Seriously?

These were your words. Not mine

You are jumping to conclusions and claiming we’ve made certain statements when we haven’t.

Forget the name of the player, do you really believe missing a full pre season should not have any impact on a player's performance for the season?

The above is a question I’m happy to answer. There are certain players who can come back from serious injury and perform fresh and others who can’t.

You need to give younger players more latitude as they don’t have the fitness base of several pre seasons under their belt. Billings is not a ‘young’ player, even if he looks young. Obviously, he won’t be expected to be best on ground while he regains some form.

If he needs to be managed throughout the year, that is understandable. If Billings is picked for 3-4 games in a row and it’s June or July at the business end of the year he’ll have no excuses.

[B.M]

Hasn’t Billings got 40 odd Brownlow votes - he’s played good AFL games! Been injured, it happens in footy

Bytel
Behind Crouch and Ross - who are pretty good AFL footballers
Bytel was excellent at VFL level this season

Sharman
Got some attributes and some deficits

[Scollop]

I don’t understand how some fans expect a young player, who hasn’t played 20 or 30 games of senior footy, to be rated the same as the established and senior players in a team

We expect more of our senior players and we rely more on our senior players. Without the consistency and leadership from senior players you cannot be competitive.

The Saints are not currently a top 4 team. We can all agree on that can’t we?

We have to provide games experience to our talented youngsters when we are building.

[B.M]

We were top 4 at r11 this season

[Scollop]

We were top 4 at r11 this season

Yeah that’s true, but would you call North Melbourne or Adelaide or West Coast a top 4 team if they are on top of the ladder after Round 1 next year?

Point I’m making is that a ‘top 4 team’ is one that actually finishes top 4 after 22 Rounds of football

[Scollop]

By the way

Even though we were sitting in the top 8 with a very healthy win loss ratio in the middle of the year, it didn’t stop Ratten from dropping Billings in 2022 and a couple of other established players. Wish he’d done the same with Hill in 2021

[Ghost Like]

Moods explained where he was coming from but I wanted to highlight that recovery from back surgery, which he had done in his own time, takes a while to recover from, let alone perform an AFL pre season.

I understand moods believes Billings has been given too many excuses for not being the player we hoped they had invested in. I wanted to point out that back surgery is a little more serious than other excuses moods believes have been offered for Billings.

Sure, if Billings has a poor 2023 and someone offers up the change of coaches or the new naming right sponsor on our jumper as the reason then that's simply wrong. But returning from back surgery, a late start to pre season seem viable reasons for slow start or a disjointed season. You've already offered that to him scollop...

"Obviously, he won’t be expected to be best on ground while he regains some form."

[Vortex]

Hasn’t Billings got 40 odd Brownlow votes - he’s played good AFL games! Been injured, it happens in footy

Bytel
Behind Crouch and Ross - who are pretty good AFL footballers
Bytel was excellent at VFL level this season

Sharman
Got some attributes and some deficits

Brownlow votes aren't worth much chop.

Ironically Sharman has more credits in the bank on the account he will be in his first year of a two year contract and because he is project player.

Billings and Bytel need to have better than average seasons to keep the faith as I can't see a justification for keeping them on the list if they don't and irrespective of the reason.

[Scollop]

Moods explained where he was coming from but I wanted to highlight that recovery from back surgery, which he had done in his own time, takes a while to recover from, let alone perform an AFL pre season.

I understand moods believes Billings has been given too many excuses for not being the player we hoped they had invested in. I wanted to point out that back surgery is a little more serious than other excuses moods believes have been offered for Billings.

Sure, if Billings has a poor 2023 and someone offers up the change of coaches or the new naming right sponsor on our jumper as the reason then that's simply wrong. But returning from back surgery, a late start to pre season seem viable reasons for slow start or a disjointed season. You've already offered that to him scollop...

"Obviously, he won’t be expected to be best on ground while he regains some form."

Ok. If he’s played a few games at Sandringham and 4-5 games for the seniors, would you still give him any excuses? If he declares himself fit in late June or early July 2023 and we are still in with a good chance of making finals…can he use his back surgery in September 22 as an excuse?

[B.M]

What do you mean Brownlow votes are worthless

It means you’ve been voted in the best 3 players (out of 44) on the ground - in an AFL game

Surely you jest?

[Ghost Like]

Moods explained where he was coming from but I wanted to highlight that recovery from back surgery, which he had done in his own time, takes a while to recover from, let alone perform an AFL pre season.

I understand moods believes Billings has been given too many excuses for not being the player we hoped they had invested in. I wanted to point out that back surgery is a little more serious than other excuses moods believes have been offered for Billings.

Sure, if Billings has a poor 2023 and someone offers up the change of coaches or the new naming right sponsor on our jumper as the reason then that's simply wrong. But returning from back surgery, a late start to pre season seem viable reasons for slow start or a disjointed season. You've already offered that to him scollop...

"Obviously, he won’t be expected to be best on ground while he regains some form."

Ok. If he’s played a few games at Sandringham and 4-5 games for the seniors, would you still give him any excuses? If he declares himself fit in late June or early July 2023 and we are still in with a good chance of making finals…can he use his back surgery in September 22 as an excuse?

OK, let's play, as an excuse for what exactly? What position is he playing? What were his stats? Or do you just assume that they will be poor? Is there a pass mark?

All those times players speak about (& thank) having an uninterrupted pre season as the launch pad for their season, is that just rubbish? I think Billings will be starting from a fair way back.

Once he's declared fit it will be what he does in the game. He won't be gifted a game. He's been dropped before, will most likely get dropped during 2023...Lyon is not afraid to do that. I suspect if Hill cannot recapture his Freo wing form, he will also be made an example of. St Kilda will be better for it and so will the players.

Bottom line, yes I think he will have a fair argument at the end of season 2023 that his year would have been better without the need for back surgery in September 2022 and the subsequent recovery and rehabilitation.

P.S.: I still use the surgery on my back in 2010 as the reason for struggling to do things I took for granted but still 100% better than immediately before the operation.

[Scollop]

Good luck to JB. Hope he has a full recovery ...

I hope we only select players who can perform and give 100% effort.

It's not in their personal interest and their long term health if we are playing them when they have injury concerns

Hope he gets back to his 2019 form and he helps us win the flag in 2024

[Vortex]

What do you mean Brownlow votes are worthless

It means you’ve been voted in the best 3 players (out of 44) on the ground - in an AFL game

Surely you jest?

Even before the umpire betting scandal I thought the Brownlow system had credibility issues. More AFL players are coming out publically and saying the same.

[B.M]

So if you get Brownlow votes you haven’t played well?!

[happy feet]

So if you get Brownlow votes you haven’t played well?!

I think what you have missed B.M is that the only votes that count are the ones that Vortex gives.

About 40 years ago, my old Supervisor who was a Scot said to me ‘lad you can’t teach a pig to sing, it won’t work and it will only annoy the pig’ .