Saintsational Fan Forum - A passionate community of St Kilda Football Club fans discussing news, history, players, trade rumours, results, AFL stats and more.
CURLY wrote: ↑Thu 01 Sep 2022 1:44pm
Long is a butcher by foot still. He's a liablity at times on the ground with stupid mistakes.
I don't think his skills are too bad, it's his inability to stay involved in the game that prevents him from being a best 22 player. He looked like he had finally turned a corner early 2020 but then dropped off again and went back to his usual inconsistent/low production standard which has been the norm for 6 years. I don't see him suddenly turning things around off the back of one excellent game.
I tend to agree msg. This also seems to be the overwhelming (underwhelming) pattern to our list management over the past decade. We become seduced and overly protective of our players on the back of games that ultimately prove to be more the exception to the norm.
It seems quite a few of our players can make exceptional benchmarks but sadly fail to make that a consistency. The ultimate AFL tease.
CURLY wrote: ↑Thu 01 Sep 2022 1:44pm
Long is a butcher by foot still. He's a liablity at times on the ground with stupid mistakes.
I don't think his skills are too bad, it's his inability to stay involved in the game that prevents him from being a best 22 player. He looked like he had finally turned a corner early 2020 but then dropped off again and went back to his usual inconsistent/low production standard which has been the norm for 6 years. I don't see him suddenly turning things around off the back of one excellent game.
I tend to agree msg. This also seems to be the overwhelming (underwhelming) pattern to our list management over the past decade. We become seduced and overly protective of our players on the back of games that ultimately prove to be more the exception to the norm.
It seems quite a few of our players can make exceptional benchmarks but sadly fail to make that a consistency. The ultimate AFL tease.
Ghost, would it surprise you if he went to North, got permanently stationed at half back and started playing good consistent footy?
Is Long the issue because he’s not good enough to secure a permanent role, or has he not been able to or given the chance to settle into a role therefore his output is inconsistent?
I’m unsure on this, his best games can be very good.
There's only one rule in the jungle! When the LYON's hungry, he eats!
wally wrote: ↑Fri 02 Sep 2022 8:55am
They took Guerra because he was a great kick.Clarkson also recruited Dew on the other HBF his theory was elite long kicks to beat the flood and get the forwards (buddy) in open space.
Liehert used his thumping kick on many occasions to get over the press.
Long does not only get a lot of possession's its his pressure which is elite he makes the opposition look over there shoulder and creates turnovers.
He does the 1% like when he punched the ball in the centre of the ground to our forwards for a goal he dived full length.
As a sports coach myself he is the sort of player I would pick first time he inspires the rest of the team.
wally wrote: ↑Fri 02 Sep 2022 8:55am
They took Guerra because he was a great kick.Clarkson also recruited Dew on the other HBF his theory was elite long kicks to beat the flood and get the forwards (buddy) in open space.
Liehert used his thumping kick on many occasions to get over the press.
Long does not only get a lot of possession's its his pressure which is elite he makes the opposition look over there shoulder and creates turnovers.
He does the 1% like when he punched the ball in the centre of the ground to our forwards for a goal he dived full length.
As a sports coach myself he is the sort of player I would pick first time he inspires the rest of the team.
He is very good at the things beyond the stats. Not sure if they are called 1%.... pressure and chaos he can cause around the ball is invaluable.
He gets rubbed out on occasions as he pushes it too far. Far from our worst and would have him in the team if available.
CURLY wrote: ↑Thu 01 Sep 2022 1:44pm
Long is a butcher by foot still. He's a liablity at times on the ground with stupid mistakes.
I don't think his skills are too bad, it's his inability to stay involved in the game that prevents him from being a best 22 player. He looked like he had finally turned a corner early 2020 but then dropped off again and went back to his usual inconsistent/low production standard which has been the norm for 6 years. I don't see him suddenly turning things around off the back of one excellent game.
I tend to agree msg. This also seems to be the overwhelming (underwhelming) pattern to our list management over the past decade. We become seduced and overly protective of our players on the back of games that ultimately prove to be more the exception to the norm.
It seems quite a few of our players can make exceptional benchmarks but sadly fail to make that a consistency. The ultimate AFL tease.
Ghost, would it surprise you if he went to North, got permanently stationed at half back and started playing good consistent footy?
Is Long the issue because he’s not good enough to secure a permanent role, or has he not been able to or given the chance to settle into a role therefore his output is inconsistent?
I’m unsure on this, his best games can be very good.
My take is that he is improving and with more games under his belt will be a ripper
CURLY wrote: ↑Thu 01 Sep 2022 1:44pm
Long is a butcher by foot still. He's a liablity at times on the ground with stupid mistakes.
I don't think his skills are too bad, it's his inability to stay involved in the game that prevents him from being a best 22 player. He looked like he had finally turned a corner early 2020 but then dropped off again and went back to his usual inconsistent/low production standard which has been the norm for 6 years. I don't see him suddenly turning things around off the back of one excellent game.
I tend to agree msg. This also seems to be the overwhelming (underwhelming) pattern to our list management over the past decade. We become seduced and overly protective of our players on the back of games that ultimately prove to be more the exception to the norm.
It seems quite a few of our players can make exceptional benchmarks but sadly fail to make that a consistency. The ultimate AFL tease.
Ghost, would it surprise you if he went to North, got permanently stationed at half back and started playing good consistent footy?
Is Long the issue because he’s not good enough to secure a permanent role, or has he not been able to or given the chance to settle into a role therefore his output is inconsistent?
I’m unsure on this, his best games can be very good.
Isn't it because selectors conventional wisdom is that Jimmy W is better and Higgins/Butler are immovable.
Despite all the evidence that it is dumb thinking.
CURLY wrote: ↑Thu 01 Sep 2022 1:44pm
Long is a butcher by foot still. He's a liablity at times on the ground with stupid mistakes.
I don't think his skills are too bad, it's his inability to stay involved in the game that prevents him from being a best 22 player. He looked like he had finally turned a corner early 2020 but then dropped off again and went back to his usual inconsistent/low production standard which has been the norm for 6 years. I don't see him suddenly turning things around off the back of one excellent game.
I tend to agree msg. This also seems to be the overwhelming (underwhelming) pattern to our list management over the past decade. We become seduced and overly protective of our players on the back of games that ultimately prove to be more the exception to the norm.
It seems quite a few of our players can make exceptional benchmarks but sadly fail to make that a consistency. The ultimate AFL tease.
Ghost, would it surprise you if he went to North, got permanently stationed at half back and started playing good consistent footy?
Is Long the issue because he’s not good enough to secure a permanent role, or has he not been able to or given the chance to settle into a role therefore his output is inconsistent?
I’m unsure on this, his best games can be very good.
This is a very good question…
Lack of a definitive position probably now pbly answers the question for us…
I mean look what settling into the backline did for Battle!
Long IMO has consistently played his best footy down back… and IMO it makes the most sense to play him there where the ball goes to him as opposed to having him chase kicks.
I think GT was a big advocate for starting mids on a HBF for this reason. It’s easier for them to get kicks… makes sense with Long because that’s his challenge too.
IMO it again highlights the error of keeping Sinclair in the backline instead of the middle when we have a plethora of flankers fighting for opportunity but few to excel in the middle like Jack can
Would hurt more to lose Ben Long than Brad Hill.....
Hill says he's open to a trade and that just confirms for me that he hasn't embraced the red, white and black and it shows in the way he plays......he does not bleed for this club, never will
Long on the other hand gives 110% every time he goes out there and I just love the way he plays......let him settle at half back and I'm sure that consistency will come
If I was a player manager looking to strengthen my clients postion at the trade table I'd leak to the media that Clarko was showing interest. Just saying.
CURLY wrote: ↑Thu 01 Sep 2022 1:44pm
Long is a butcher by foot still. He's a liablity at times on the ground with stupid mistakes.
I don't think his skills are too bad, it's his inability to stay involved in the game that prevents him from being a best 22 player. He looked like he had finally turned a corner early 2020 but then dropped off again and went back to his usual inconsistent/low production standard which has been the norm for 6 years. I don't see him suddenly turning things around off the back of one excellent game.
I tend to agree msg. This also seems to be the overwhelming (underwhelming) pattern to our list management over the past decade. We become seduced and overly protective of our players on the back of games that ultimately prove to be more the exception to the norm.
It seems quite a few of our players can make exceptional benchmarks but sadly fail to make that a consistency. The ultimate AFL tease.
Ghost, would it surprise you if he went to North, got permanently stationed at half back and started playing good consistent footy?
Is Long the issue because he’s not good enough to secure a permanent role, or has he not been able to or given the chance to settle into a role therefore his output is inconsistent?
I’m unsure on this, his best games can be very good.
Yes, that would surprise me D.B.. I'm also not sure Long is the issue. I'm quite confident though that our unwavering belief in players like Long as well as those on substantially more dollars have us sitting outside the 8.
This is a decade of average & below average players, if it's not the players then what, coach or otherwise, will transform this list. I suggest draft and trades, not a reliance on Long & Hind type players to be the improvement.
The best way to assess a player like Long is ask yourself if you could see him playing in tonight's game or last night's game, I couldn't, how long has he been on the list now, is it 6 years? Overrated and the health of our list warrants some brutal calls and cull players like Long and try and Freshen up the list.
Settling him into a postion to see if that helps him find consistency, which is his greatest weakness amongst others such as questionable skills and issues of concentration, would just continue to clog up the list with average players who have reached their ceiling some time ago.
79 games.
Debut 2017
Rising Star Nominee in 2018.
Can't see which game got him the nom.
Born 21/08/1997
I think he's another victim of the putrid Richo era.
A real Sainter will pledge allegiance to the ❤ and despise the Pies, the Blues, and the Injectors.
Remember one of the 10 Commandments : Thou shalt have no other team before thee
skeptic wrote: ↑Fri 02 Sep 2022 10:13pm
He was great in the final vs the Dogs
Like many players have admitted, 2020 was a bit of slap and tickle to keep us entertained while we were locked up, that's why it's called the Covid Cup. And that's why it's time to get honest with our list, we have overrated too many for too long just like we overrate our last finals campaign.
We have a small core that desperately needs support before we risk going to the bottom of a full rebuild again. We have to get brutal and find around 10 to 12 players capable of becoming finals type players.
skeptic wrote: ↑Fri 02 Sep 2022 10:13pm
He was great in the final vs the Dogs
Like many players have admitted, 2020 was a bit of slap and tickle to keep us entertained while we were locked up, that's why it's called the Covid Cup. And that's why it's time to get honest with our list, we have overrated too many for too long just like we overrate our last finals campaign.
We have a small core that desperately needs support before we risk going to the bottom of a full rebuild again. We have to get brutal and find around 10 to 12 players capable of becoming finals type players.
skeptic wrote: ↑Fri 02 Sep 2022 10:13pm
He was great in the final vs the Dogs
Like many players have admitted, 2020 was a bit of slap and tickle to keep us entertained while we were locked up, that's why it's called the Covid Cup. And that's why it's time to get honest with our list, we have overrated too many for too long just like we overrate our last finals campaign.
We have a small core that desperately needs support before we risk going to the bottom of a full rebuild again. We have to get brutal and find around 10 to 12 players capable of becoming finals type players.
Who said this?
Surely you don't rate the 2020 season. Come on Skeptic let's not argue for the sake of arguing, any halfwit knowledge of the game understands it was and incredibly compromised season. That fact we made it into the finals is enough evidence we weren't competing in a full strength comp.
skeptic wrote: ↑Fri 02 Sep 2022 10:13pm
He was great in the final vs the Dogs
Like many players have admitted, 2020 was a bit of slap and tickle to keep us entertained while we were locked up, that's why it's called the Covid Cup. And that's why it's time to get honest with our list, we have overrated too many for too long just like we overrate our last finals campaign.
We have a small core that desperately needs support before we risk going to the bottom of a full rebuild again. We have to get brutal and find around 10 to 12 players capable of becoming finals type players.
Who said this?
Surely you don't rate the 2020 season. Come on Skeptic let's not argue for the sake of arguing, any halfwit knowledge of the game understands it was and incredibly compromised season. That fact we made it into the finals is enough evidence we weren't competing in a full strength comp.
Sure sure.
Can you just point out a few of the many players that have admitted this and where they have done so. Should be easy.
skeptic wrote: ↑Fri 02 Sep 2022 10:13pm
He was great in the final vs the Dogs
Like many players have admitted, 2020 was a bit of slap and tickle to keep us entertained while we were locked up, that's why it's called the Covid Cup. And that's why it's time to get honest with our list, we have overrated too many for too long just like we overrate our last finals campaign.
We have a small core that desperately needs support before we risk going to the bottom of a full rebuild again. We have to get brutal and find around 10 to 12 players capable of becoming finals type players.
Who said this?
Surely you don't rate the 2020 season. Come on Skeptic let's not argue for the sake of arguing, any halfwit knowledge of the game understands it was and incredibly compromised season. That fact we made it into the finals is enough evidence we weren't competing in a full strength comp.
Sure sure.
Can you just point out a few of the many players that have admitted this and where they have done so. Should be easy.
I'm getting too old to play those childish internet games. Clearly you rated our season in 2020 but I think most pundits accept it was not a year to measure performance of where you were at as a club.
We have so many players who are always hard at the ball and man, who play with desperation and are brimming with white line fever. So many so let's get rid of Ben Long. FMD.
Not "Simon Templar". He was here first. Please change my username to Bumstead and if possible make me one of those very large sandwiches, thanks!
skeptic wrote: ↑Fri 02 Sep 2022 10:13pm
He was great in the final vs the Dogs
Like many players have admitted, 2020 was a bit of slap and tickle to keep us entertained while we were locked up, that's why it's called the Covid Cup. And that's why it's time to get honest with our list, we have overrated too many for too long just like we overrate our last finals campaign.
We have a small core that desperately needs support before we risk going to the bottom of a full rebuild again. We have to get brutal and find around 10 to 12 players capable of becoming finals type players.
Who said this?
Surely you don't rate the 2020 season. Come on Skeptic let's not argue for the sake of arguing, any halfwit knowledge of the game understands it was and incredibly compromised season. That fact we made it into the finals is enough evidence we weren't competing in a full strength comp.
Sure sure.
Can you just point out a few of the many players that have admitted this and where they have done so. Should be easy.
I'm getting too old to play those childish internet games. Clearly you rated our season in 2020 but I think most pundits accept it was not a year to measure performance of where you were at as a club.
I’ve not said any of that. The only point I made was that Ben Long played well in a final. You stated that many players have acknowledged that that season was a farce.
I’ve asked you for a simple example of what you stated. You have not provided that and the comment has now changed from “many players” to “most pundits”.
I don’t know what game it is I’m playing asking you to confirm what you’ve stated but I guess we’ve reached the end of this discussion as I too have no desire to play “childish games on the internet”.
and despise the Pies, the Blues, and the Injectors.
