Coffield - Suspected ACL

[remboy]

Nick is 22 and played just 52 games in the 4 years since he was drafted, the big question that his forced absence raises is that someone else (Jack Hayes, Matthew Allison) will take the opportunity in 2022 to cement his spot in defence.

I well remember how Joel Smith fell out of favour with the selectors after he lost 1998 through a knee reconstruction (his absence for the 1997 granny was a massive blow) and was subsequently picked up by Hawthorn where he went on to be a star for the Hawks for ANOTHER NINE seasons!!!

Here's hoping history doesn't repeat itself in this case, but with St Kilda you never know......

Nick at his best is a very good player, but I'm confident that the club has the depth to cover his absence.

Joel Smith!
Yes, what happened there?
Watson didn’t like him? He was a star, no?
How did he ‘go out of favour’?
It seems incredible.

We offered him a performance based contract, the Hawks offered him a guaranteed contract so he left for the money. Keep mind he didn’t just do his ACL, I think he did the medial (and maybe lateral) as well. Pretty sure they didn’t fix them all at the same time so his recovery time was going to be 18 months.
He was a very good player at the Hawks but in my opinion was never the same as before his knee. He was a 30 possession 2 goal a game wingman in 97.

[B.M]

30 possessions 2 goal per game?

I don’t think so?! They are Dustin Martin/Bontempelli numbers!!!

He was a skilful more than handy HF

Went to Hawthorn
Became a B&F and AA

He was easily better at Hawthorn

[CQ SAINT]

Nick is 22 and played just 52 games in the 4 years since he was drafted, the big question that his forced absence raises is that someone else (Jack Hayes, Matthew Allison) will take the opportunity in 2022 to cement his spot in defence.

I well remember how Joel Smith fell out of favour with the selectors after he lost 1998 through a knee reconstruction (his absence for the 1997 granny was a massive blow) and was subsequently picked up by Hawthorn where he went on to be a star for the Hawks for ANOTHER NINE seasons!!!

Here's hoping history doesn't repeat itself in this case, but with St Kilda you never know......

Nick at his best is a very good player, but I'm confident that the club has the depth to cover his absence.

Joel Smith!
Yes, what happened there?
Watson didn’t like him? He was a star, no?
How did he ‘go out of favour’?
It seems incredible.

ACL in 97 before the finals, had his contract clipped and got a better offer from Hawthorn then missed the whole 98 season but the rest is history and the curse continues.

[shanegrambeau]

Nick is 22 and played just 52 games in the 4 years since he was drafted, the big question that his forced absence raises is that someone else (Jack Hayes, Matthew Allison) will take the opportunity in 2022 to cement his spot in defence.

I well remember how Joel Smith fell out of favour with the selectors after he lost 1998 through a knee reconstruction (his absence for the 1997 granny was a massive blow) and was subsequently picked up by Hawthorn where he went on to be a star for the Hawks for ANOTHER NINE seasons!!!

Here's hoping history doesn't repeat itself in this case, but with St Kilda you never know......

Nick at his best is a very good player, but I'm confident that the club has the depth to cover his absence.

Joel Smith!
Yes, what happened there?
Watson didn’t like him? He was a star, no?
How did he ‘go out of favour’?
It seems incredible.

We offered him a performance based contract, the Hawks offered him a guaranteed contract so he left for the money. Keep mind he didn’t just do his ACL, I think he did the medial (and maybe lateral) as well. Pretty sure they didn’t fix them all at the same time so his recovery time was going to be 18 months.
He was a very good player at the Hawks but in my opinion was never the same as before his knee. He was a 30 possession 2 goal a game wingman in 97.

So I’m calling it a miss by our mob again here. Don’t blame them cos it is a card game…once we dropped the performance clause card on the table, the hawks could trump that with a free icy-pole as long as it didn’t say performance based. Guess you win some lose some. You do wonder about the Watson years sometimes and what happened to players in that year. Steven Sziller, Rod Keogh etc. SS kept going into GTs era I think.

[CQ SAINT]

Nick is 22 and played just 52 games in the 4 years since he was drafted, the big question that his forced absence raises is that someone else (Jack Hayes, Matthew Allison) will take the opportunity in 2022 to cement his spot in defence.

I well remember how Joel Smith fell out of favour with the selectors after he lost 1998 through a knee reconstruction (his absence for the 1997 granny was a massive blow) and was subsequently picked up by Hawthorn where he went on to be a star for the Hawks for ANOTHER NINE seasons!!!

Here's hoping history doesn't repeat itself in this case, but with St Kilda you never know......

Nick at his best is a very good player, but I'm confident that the club has the depth to cover his absence.

Joel Smith!
Yes, what happened there?
Watson didn’t like him? He was a star, no?
How did he ‘go out of favour’?
It seems incredible.

We offered him a performance based contract, the Hawks offered him a guaranteed contract so he left for the money. Keep mind he didn’t just do his ACL, I think he did the medial (and maybe lateral) as well. Pretty sure they didn’t fix them all at the same time so his recovery time was going to be 18 months.
He was a very good player at the Hawks but in my opinion was never the same as before his knee. He was a 30 possession 2 goal a game wingman in 97.

So I’m calling it a miss by our mob again here. Don’t blame them cos it is a card game…once we dropped the performance clause card on the table, the hawks could trump that with a free icy-pole as long as it didn’t say performance based. Guess you win some lose some. You do wonder about the Watson years sometimes and what happened to players in that year. Steven Sziller, Rod Keogh etc. SS kept going into GTs era I think.

Smith left at the beginning of 98. Watson came in 99.

[shanegrambeau]

Nick is 22 and played just 52 games in the 4 years since he was drafted, the big question that his forced absence raises is that someone else (Jack Hayes, Matthew Allison) will take the opportunity in 2022 to cement his spot in defence.

I well remember how Joel Smith fell out of favour with the selectors after he lost 1998 through a knee reconstruction (his absence for the 1997 granny was a massive blow) and was subsequently picked up by Hawthorn where he went on to be a star for the Hawks for ANOTHER NINE seasons!!!

Here's hoping history doesn't repeat itself in this case, but with St Kilda you never know......

Nick at his best is a very good player, but I'm confident that the club has the depth to cover his absence.

Joel Smith!
Yes, what happened there?
Watson didn’t like him? He was a star, no?
How did he ‘go out of favour’?
It seems incredible.

We offered him a performance based contract, the Hawks offered him a guaranteed contract so he left for the money. Keep mind he didn’t just do his ACL, I think he did the medial (and maybe lateral) as well. Pretty sure they didn’t fix them all at the same time so his recovery time was going to be 18 months.
He was a very good player at the Hawks but in my opinion was never the same as before his knee. He was a 30 possession 2 goal a game wingman in 97.

So I’m calling it a miss by our mob again here. Don’t blame them cos it is a card game…once we dropped the performance clause card on the table, the hawks could trump that with a free icy-pole as long as it didn’t say performance based. Guess you win some lose some. You do wonder about the Watson years sometimes and what happened to players in that year. Steven Sziller, Rod Keogh etc. SS kept going into GTs era I think.

Smith left at the beginning of 98. Watson came in 99.

So it was under Alves. Still a bad miss, but we were still competitive in '98. why did Alves leave?

[saynta]

Nick is 22 and played just 52 games in the 4 years since he was drafted, the big question that his forced absence raises is that someone else (Jack Hayes, Matthew Allison) will take the opportunity in 2022 to cement his spot in defence.

I well remember how Joel Smith fell out of favour with the selectors after he lost 1998 through a knee reconstruction (his absence for the 1997 granny was a massive blow) and was subsequently picked up by Hawthorn where he went on to be a star for the Hawks for ANOTHER NINE seasons!!!

Here's hoping history doesn't repeat itself in this case, but with St Kilda you never know......

Nick at his best is a very good player, but I'm confident that the club has the depth to cover his absence.

Joel Smith!
Yes, what happened there?
Watson didn’t like him? He was a star, no?
How did he ‘go out of favour’?
It seems incredible.

We offered him a performance based contract, the Hawks offered him a guaranteed contract so he left for the money. Keep mind he didn’t just do his ACL, I think he did the medial (and maybe lateral) as well. Pretty sure they didn’t fix them all at the same time so his recovery time was going to be 18 months.
He was a very good player at the Hawks but in my opinion was never the same as before his knee. He was a 30 possession 2 goal a game wingman in 97.

So I’m calling it a miss by our mob again here. Don’t blame them cos it is a card game…once we dropped the performance clause card on the table, the hawks could trump that with a free icy-pole as long as it didn’t say performance based. Guess you win some lose some. You do wonder about the Watson years sometimes and what happened to players in that year. Steven Sziller, Rod Keogh etc. SS kept going into GTs era I think.

Smith left at the beginning of 98. Watson came in 99.

So it was under Alves. Still a bad miss, but we were still competitive in '98. why did Alves leave?

Never played for the saints again after getting injured. Saints were remiss in not supporting him or standing by him. Huge mistake but just one of many the saints have made over the years,

Alves got the chop. May have pushed a player down a stair case from memory.

From wikipedia.

"Joel Smith (born 3 May 1977) is a former Australian rules footballer.

Beginning his career in 1995 as a bright young prospect for St Kilda, Smith was touted as the future of the club.

Smith played in St Kilda’s 1996 AFL Ansett Australia Cup winning side – the club's first AFL Cup win.[1]

He provided 3 good years of service before being incurring a serious anterior cruciate ligament injury requiring reconstruction late in the 1997 home and away season, missing the Saints' finals series.

A contractual dispute meant he moved to Hawthorn at the end of 1997.[2] While he was injured all throughout 1998 and did not play a game, Hawthorn recognised this talent and kept him on the list.

Smith made his return in the 1999 season and his role at the Hawks was as a running half-back, setting up attacking plays. He has been very successful playing this role throughout his career, and in 2001, won All-Australian selection and the Peter Crimmins Medal. He again won All-Australian selection in 2003, was vice captain in the 2005 season, and consistently finished in the top bunch of players in his club's best and fairest award.

Smith retired at the end of the 2007 season, during which Hawthorn returned to the finals for the first time in 6 years, citing that the rapidly improving Hawthorn side was likely to mean reduced opportunities for him in 2008.[3]

[saynta]

From memory, a filth player rolled over his leg, an action that these days would get you reported. ....Richard Osbourne maybe. What a dick.

Shanahan also left at the end of that year but he was no loss. We spiralled down from a grannie to wooden spooners .

Posters talk about how losing Spider and Vidovic affected our GF chances, Smith was almost as big a loss.

Such is life.....if you are a saints supporter.

[ausfatcat]

He was a very good player at the Hawks but in my opinion was never the same as before his knee. He was a 30 possession 2 goal a game wingman in 97.

Strange that he only ever had a single 30 or more possession game in his whole career (in 2004 btw).

[skeptic]

Nick is 22 and played just 52 games in the 4 years since he was drafted, the big question that his forced absence raises is that someone else (Jack Hayes, Matthew Allison) will take the opportunity in 2022 to cement his spot in defence.

I well remember how Joel Smith fell out of favour with the selectors after he lost 1998 through a knee reconstruction (his absence for the 1997 granny was a massive blow) and was subsequently picked up by Hawthorn where he went on to be a star for the Hawks for ANOTHER NINE seasons!!!

Here's hoping history doesn't repeat itself in this case, but with St Kilda you never know......

Nick at his best is a very good player, but I'm confident that the club has the depth to cover his absence.

Joel Smith!
Yes, what happened there?
Watson didn’t like him? He was a star, no?
How did he ‘go out of favour’?
It seems incredible.

We offered him a performance based contract, the Hawks offered him a guaranteed contract so he left for the money. Keep mind he didn’t just do his ACL, I think he did the medial (and maybe lateral) as well. Pretty sure they didn’t fix them all at the same time so his recovery time was going to be 18 months.
He was a very good player at the Hawks but in my opinion was never the same as before his knee. He was a 30 possession 2 goal a game wingman in 97.

So I’m calling it a miss by our mob again here. Don’t blame them cos it is a card game…once we dropped the performance clause card on the table, the hawks could trump that with a free icy-pole as long as it didn’t say performance based. Guess you win some lose some. You do wonder about the Watson years sometimes and what happened to players in that year. Steven Sziller, Rod Keogh etc. SS kept going into GTs era I think.

Smith left at the beginning of 98. Watson came in 99.

So it was under Alves. Still a bad miss, but we were still competitive in '98. why did Alves leave?

Never played for the saints again after getting injured. Saints were remiss in not supporting him or standing by him. Huge mistake but just one of many the saints have made over the years,

Alves got the chop. May have pushed a player down a stair case from memory.

From wikipedia.

"Joel Smith (born 3 May 1977) is a former Australian rules footballer.

Beginning his career in 1995 as a bright young prospect for St Kilda, Smith was touted as the future of the club.

Smith played in St Kilda’s 1996 AFL Ansett Australia Cup winning side – the club's first AFL Cup win.[1]

He provided 3 good years of service before being incurring a serious anterior cruciate ligament injury requiring reconstruction late in the 1997 home and away season, missing the Saints' finals series.

A contractual dispute meant he moved to Hawthorn at the end of 1997.[2] While he was injured all throughout 1998 and did not play a game, Hawthorn recognised this talent and kept him on the list.

Smith made his return in the 1999 season and his role at the Hawks was as a running half-back, setting up attacking plays. He has been very successful playing this role throughout his career, and in 2001, won All-Australian selection and the Peter Crimmins Medal. He again won All-Australian selection in 2003, was vice captain in the 2005 season, and consistently finished in the top bunch of players in his club's best and fairest award.

Smith retired at the end of the 2007 season, during which Hawthorn returned to the finals for the first time in 6 years, citing that the rapidly improving Hawthorn side was likely to mean reduced opportunities for him in 2008.[3]

The incident you’re referring to with the stairs involved David Grant and it happened around 95/96.

Alves semi references it in his book… Grant broke a team rule and he took him round the corner in the locker room and gave him the single biggest telling off of all time in earshot of his team mates.
Doesn’t say anything about pushing him stairs and I can’t find references to it happening but that’s scuttlebutt.

Alves wrote of his regret regarding this saying that Grant completely fell away after this.

I’m surprised that you don’t quite recall this as I’ve heard you reference it quite a few times over the years as you have reading Alves’ book (that you didn’t really care for IIRC).
I say this with no disrespect or shade intended…
You’ve never spoken particularly glowingly of Alves in the past and are a big fan of David Grant… I always connected these dots.
Not that it matters.

Regardless of all that… RE Alves sacking, he’s always suggested that the board never intended for him to stay on as head coach. Took the role on as care taker allegedly waiting for Barker to take over and then stayed on.

Famously he tells the story of how in the post grand final function in 1997, 2 board members allegedly approached him and said their biggest regret of the season was that they would be unable to sack him on the back of his performance in 97.

Alves would say that they worked against him with regards to what he wanted to do with the list e.g. they wouldn’t replace Shannahan.
He seemed as though the pressure intensified on him from that point forward and he was really intense and angry through 98 until he lost the players

[saynta]

Despite what ill informed people say of my posts in the past. I think, from memory that the guy Alves pushed down the stairs was Joe McLaren. I certainly never said it was David Grant and I don't recall ever reading Stan's book. It is not in my library.

Haven't dished Alves in the past apart from referencing why he was sacked and, although I liked David Grant I have never gone overboard praising him FFS.

[skeptic]

Despite what ill informed people say of my posts in the past. I think, from memory that the guy Alves pushed down the stairs was Joe McLaren. I certainly never said it was David Grant and I don't recall ever reading Stan's book. It is not in my library.

Haven't dished Alves in the past apart from referencing why he was sacked and, although I liked David Grant I have never gone overboard praising him FFS.

I do apologise if I have misrepresented/misremembered your views. Must have been someone with a similar name I am thinking of.

[sunsaint]

Knees were a different story in 97 than they are now - while improvements to treatment had improved in leaps & bounds they could still often be career ending
We now almost expect a player to be back within 12months

"97 under Alves was the first time I could remember a belief in the team to go all the way
Exciting times - snatched away

[WellardSaint]

Despite what ill informed people say of my posts in the past. I think, from memory that the guy Alves pushed down the stairs was Joe McLaren. I certainly never said it was David Grant and I don't recall ever reading Stan's book. It is not in my library.

Haven't dished Alves in the past apart from referencing why he was sacked and, although I liked David Grant I have never gone overboard praising him FFS.

I seem to recall the rumour that it was McLaren too, and I think it happened in Perth.
McLaren went to Norf not long afterwards

[skeptic]

Despite what ill informed people say of my posts in the past. I think, from memory that the guy Alves pushed down the stairs was Joe McLaren. I certainly never said it was David Grant and I don't recall ever reading Stan's book. It is not in my library.

Haven't dished Alves in the past apart from referencing why he was sacked and, although I liked David Grant I have never gone overboard praising him FFS.

I seem to recall the rumour that it was McLaren too, and I think it happened in Perth.
McLaren went to Norf not long afterwards

McClaren went to North as part of the Capuano deal before Blight came on board.

Alves was long gone at that point

You are correct about the WCE part. It allegedly occurred in a game against them. For whatever reason I’ve confused with the Grant telling off that was a few years before that.

[shanegrambeau]

Finally cleared it all up then.

Stan Alves pushed Joel Smith down the stairs and broke his legs. Both had a rough ‘98 as a result.

[saynta]

Despite what ill informed people say of my posts in the past. I think, from memory that the guy Alves pushed down the stairs was Joe McLaren. I certainly never said it was David Grant and I don't recall ever reading Stan's book. It is not in my library.

Haven't dished Alves in the past apart from referencing why he was sacked and, although I liked David Grant I have never gone overboard praising him FFS.

I seem to recall the rumour that it was McLaren too, and I think it happened in Perth.
McLaren went to Norf not long afterwards

Think your memory is spot on.

[Impatient Sainter]

Does anyone know if Nick has had the surgery as yet? I wish him all the best...

I had 2 x reco's in my playing days and thought they were painful, but they were nothing after having a full replacement last year. Same knee.