Trade-Draft 2021 Discussion

[Sanctorum]

Whilst Simon Lethlean suggested at the pre-game Saints function on the Gold Coast last Saturday that the club was certainly interested in picking up a mature age (26/27) ruckman in the MSD, he also indicated that the club would look at some rookies.

I've been very bullish about 3 players that missed out in last year's NAB draft:

1. Max Heath - 204 cm young giant who looks like a Ditterich clone, but taller (Carl was only 193 cm) but with the same mongrel streak, currently with Sandringham Dragons.

2. Jackson Callow - 194 cm 100 kg tall forward from Launceston who trained with Hawthorn and eventually picked up by Norwood in SANFL, was BOG with 3 goals on the weekend. Looks ready to play at the senior level.

3. Oliver Davis - 182 cm midfielder, won B&F at Clarence FC in Tasmania in 2020.

Does anyone know the draft order??

[saynta]

Or when it takes place?

[Impatient Sainter]

The mid season draft order is the clubs ladder position after Round 11 & the draft will be held on 2nd June 2021.

Be interested to know who the 26-27 yo rucking option the club have scouted?

I have been following the draftee canditates with interest, there are probably 30-40 possible kids available.

[Impatient Sainter]

There is your evidence Saynta -

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/ ... c3af2e2c58

[saynta]

There is your evidence Saynta -

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/ ... c3af2e2c58

Still not convinced mate, Article could very well be written by you for all I know.

[Teflon]

Trading a two times best and fairest winner for a pig in a poke? Thanks, but no thanks.

He won the B&F in our poorer years.
The same player who goes missing everytime the heat is on and still cant hit a target going forward.
Would much rather off load him while he still has some value, take a step backwards for future growth.

Every year there are calls to delist. drop or trade Sebby from people who I believe have no f****** idea. This year appears to be heading the same way . I am f****** sick of it.

But, hey, you are entitled to your own opinion. I just thank the lord, the saints have a different view.

Talk about having an idea!!
How is your boy Dunstan going?
Did you love his game against Richmond?.
Back to Trevor Barker Oval for the “ Tractor”.

Seb Ross is on 700k and we have too many one paced mid fielders he is a decent player but for him to stay he has to take a pay cut....
We need to find that elite fast 2 way running mid fielders that has eluded us for years..
Where are we going to find it?
Treloar wanted to come we had no salary cap space ....
Now we must go to the draft to find him...

Show me the evidence that Treloar wanted to come to the Saints and our lack of salary cap space.

That's just made up bull s***.

Three separate proven BF ITK's said exactly that over the trade period. Plus if you had of listened to Lethlean & Gallaghers interviews over that period, there answers on the subject was of course we are interested but later we dont have the salary cap room. Plus Treloars manager initially suggested he was interested in the Saints, but as soon as the Crouch deal went through obviously he filled our cap.

Remember all clubs have to spend 95% of their cap each year, with some minor exemptions. It's one of the worst AFL Player Iniatives ever implemented, it cripples under performing or developing clubs ability to save money in their down years.

I can understand your loyalty to Seb, but you can be assured he has been comparitively well paid in his time at the Saints. Football is a cut throat business, so if he or Billings or another limited player gets us the draft choices we need we need, would be irresponsible not to pull the trigger.

Super sensible post
Don’t argue with old imbeciles waste of energy there just happy to run round lovin all the Saints boys....missing premierships year after year ...it’s a loser mentality

<1 day ban for commenting negatively on another poster>

[Impatient Sainter]

I reckon Geelong have been trying to hide this kid (Luke Smith) likened to Stephen Milne, back in the Shepparton league after he starred in games for their VFL team. I wonder if our recruiting team are aware of him, as Stephen Wells has priors for exactly this.

https://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/sp ... 3264c9b766

[Wayne42]

What if Gags and co. pass on all of the Saints selections in the June 2 Rookie Draft, what will that tell us ?

[Impatient Sainter]

What if Gags and co. pass on all of the Saints selections in the June 2 Rookie Draft, what will that tell us ?

If they dont fill at least 3 x spots it will mean they have completely misread the future draft/s and required list balance. The list calls of delisting Savage, Phillips & Parker who would have been useful backups would have been errors. That on top of letting Hind go for zip was a disgraceful list managent call. It seemed our coaches didnt rate Hind highly enough?

Giving up a 2nd round pick in this years draft for Higgins was a poor call IMO. Its great that he was a mad Saints supporter, but they got tied up in the romance over the player value. He is a top 30 player, but will he win you games? What does he offer that Hind didnt? We can garuntee we are paying Higgins a lot more than what Hind would have been asking.

I think Gaggs & Lethlean got wound up in the previous years trade sucess stories and thought everything they did would turn to gold. History tells us that is a long way from the truth.

[Impatient Sainter]

What in heavens name did our recruiters see in Matthew Allison. The guy had 4 disposals on the weekend - thats right 4. When you look at the kids taken after him, like McMahon, Poulter, ODriscoll & numerous others our recruiters have had an absolute mare.

If they were looking for another key forward Liam McMahon 197cms 88kgs and is playing as a key forward for Collingwoods VFL team. Why because he can take a contested mark and is a natural forward. Even in Allison U18 games he didnt play as a key position player. WHY do our recruiters believe the club can turn players into something they have never been.

Another example is Nick Coffield he had 8 disposals for Sandringham - 8. When they recruited Coffield they thought he would evolve into a midfielder. He is that slow he even got exposed at VFL level. Aaron Naughton taken after Coffield took 8 contested marks against Port in Adelaide. WTF.

Our continued poor recruiting is absolutely killing us, do something about it Saints!!!!

[CURLY]

What in heavens name did our recruiters see in Matthew Allison. The guy had 4 disposals on the weekend - thats right 4. When you look at the kids taken after him, like McMahon, Poulter, ODriscoll & numerous others our recruiters have had an absolute mare.

If they were looking for another key forward Liam McMahon 197cms 88kgs and is playing as a key forward for Collingwoods VFL team. Why because he can take a contested mark and is a natural forward. Even in Allison U18 games he didnt play as a key position player. WHY do our recruiters believe the club can turn players into something they have never been.

Another example is Nick Coffield he had 8 disposals for Sandringham - 8. When they recruited Coffield they thought he would evolve into a midfielder. He is that slow he even got exposed at VFL level. Aaron Naughton taken after Coffield took 8 contested marks against Port in Adelaide. WTF.

Our continued poor recruiting is absolutely killing us, do something about it Saints!!!!

I'd like a larger sample size of Allison to make a opinion to be honest. Coffield was one of a our best performed players in 2020.

[Impatient Sainter]

What in heavens name did our recruiters see in Matthew Allison. The guy had 4 disposals on the weekend - thats right 4. When you look at the kids taken after him, like McMahon, Poulter, ODriscoll & numerous others our recruiters have had an absolute mare.

If they were looking for another key forward Liam McMahon 197cms 88kgs and is playing as a key forward for Collingwoods VFL team. Why because he can take a contested mark and is a natural forward. Even in Allison U18 games he didnt play as a key position player. WHY do our recruiters believe the club can turn players into something they have never been.

Another example is Nick Coffield he had 8 disposals for Sandringham - 8. When they recruited Coffield they thought he would evolve into a midfielder. He is that slow he even got exposed at VFL level. Aaron Naughton taken after Coffield took 8 contested marks against Port in Adelaide. WTF.

Our continued poor recruiting is absolutely killing us, do something about it Saints!!!!

I'd like a larger sample size of Allison to make a opinion to be honest. Coffield was one of a our best performed players in 2020.

Go and watch his games (Allison's) compared to Liam McMahon taken 5 picks after Allison. McMahon is now 197cms has a big frame, is just as quick and is playing Full Forward in Collingwoods VFL team. Allison cant get a kick playing as a back pocket, he runs around like a scared rabbit and doesn't look like attacking a contest.

Im calling it now he doesnt have the ticker or marking tools to make it as a tall forward. Disgraceful recruiting IMO.

[CURLY]

What in heavens name did our recruiters see in Matthew Allison. The guy had 4 disposals on the weekend - thats right 4. When you look at the kids taken after him, like McMahon, Poulter, ODriscoll & numerous others our recruiters have had an absolute mare.

If they were looking for another key forward Liam McMahon 197cms 88kgs and is playing as a key forward for Collingwoods VFL team. Why because he can take a contested mark and is a natural forward. Even in Allison U18 games he didnt play as a key position player. WHY do our recruiters believe the club can turn players into something they have never been.

Another example is Nick Coffield he had 8 disposals for Sandringham - 8. When they recruited Coffield they thought he would evolve into a midfielder. He is that slow he even got exposed at VFL level. Aaron Naughton taken after Coffield took 8 contested marks against Port in Adelaide. WTF.

Our continued poor recruiting is absolutely killing us, do something about it Saints!!!!

I'd like a larger sample size of Allison to make a opinion to be honest. Coffield was one of a our best performed players in 2020.

Go and watch his games (Allison's) compared to Liam McMahon taken 5 picks after Allison. McMahon is now 197cms has a big frame, is just as quick and is playing Full Forward in Collingwoods VFL team. Allison cant get a kick playing as a back pocket, he runs around like a scared rabbit and doesn't look like attacking a contest.

Im calling it now he doesnt have the ticker or marking tools to make it as a tall forward. Disgraceful recruiting IMO.

Liam McMahon may be more advanced due to his size and weight. The fact they're playing Allison a forward in the back half may mean they're teaching him a defensive side or how to read the play and set up.

[Impatient Sainter]

What in heavens name did our recruiters see in Matthew Allison. The guy had 4 disposals on the weekend - thats right 4. When you look at the kids taken after him, like McMahon, Poulter, ODriscoll & numerous others our recruiters have had an absolute mare.

If they were looking for another key forward Liam McMahon 197cms 88kgs and is playing as a key forward for Collingwoods VFL team. Why because he can take a contested mark and is a natural forward. Even in Allison U18 games he didnt play as a key position player. WHY do our recruiters believe the club can turn players into something they have never been.

Another example is Nick Coffield he had 8 disposals for Sandringham - 8. When they recruited Coffield they thought he would evolve into a midfielder. He is that slow he even got exposed at VFL level. Aaron Naughton taken after Coffield took 8 contested marks against Port in Adelaide. WTF.

Our continued poor recruiting is absolutely killing us, do something about it Saints!!!!

I'd like a larger sample size of Allison to make a opinion to be honest. Coffield was one of a our best performed players in 2020.

Go and watch his games (Allison's) compared to Liam McMahon taken 5 picks after Allison. McMahon is now 197cms has a big frame, is just as quick and is playing Full Forward in Collingwoods VFL team. Allison cant get a kick playing as a back pocket, he runs around like a scared rabbit and doesn't look like attacking a contest.

Im calling it now he doesnt have the ticker or marking tools to make it as a tall forward. Disgraceful recruiting IMO.

Liam McMahon may be more advanced due to his size and weight. The fact they're playing Allison a forward in the back half may mean they're teaching him a defensive side or how to read the play and set up.

True but he couldnt find the ball when forward either - that is an inert skill you cant teach that, either you have it our you dont. Both kids were the same weight when they were drafted. Its just another case of our recruiters looking for athletic traits over basic footballing traits.

The clubs who have acheived the ultimate sucess in recent years are clubs that get 60 or 70% of their picks right. We would be lucky to have a 50% sucess rate, even in more recent years after the disastrous years of Elshaugh & Pelchen. Its whats holding the club back IMO!

[CURLY]

What in heavens name did our recruiters see in Matthew Allison. The guy had 4 disposals on the weekend - thats right 4. When you look at the kids taken after him, like McMahon, Poulter, ODriscoll & numerous others our recruiters have had an absolute mare.

If they were looking for another key forward Liam McMahon 197cms 88kgs and is playing as a key forward for Collingwoods VFL team. Why because he can take a contested mark and is a natural forward. Even in Allison U18 games he didnt play as a key position player. WHY do our recruiters believe the club can turn players into something they have never been.

Another example is Nick Coffield he had 8 disposals for Sandringham - 8. When they recruited Coffield they thought he would evolve into a midfielder. He is that slow he even got exposed at VFL level. Aaron Naughton taken after Coffield took 8 contested marks against Port in Adelaide. WTF.

Our continued poor recruiting is absolutely killing us, do something about it Saints!!!!

I'd like a larger sample size of Allison to make a opinion to be honest. Coffield was one of a our best performed players in 2020.

Go and watch his games (Allison's) compared to Liam McMahon taken 5 picks after Allison. McMahon is now 197cms has a big frame, is just as quick and is playing Full Forward in Collingwoods VFL team. Allison cant get a kick playing as a back pocket, he runs around like a scared rabbit and doesn't look like attacking a contest.

Im calling it now he doesnt have the ticker or marking tools to make it as a tall forward. Disgraceful recruiting IMO.

It's not that simple for a forward coming into a new group and into senior football. Skillsets you've relied on in junior footy need to be honed and adjusted. The bloke from Collingwood if he is going so well would be playing AFL now as they have no one that is a natural key forward on their list.

Liam McMahon may be more advanced due to his size and weight. The fact they're playing Allison a forward in the back half may mean they're teaching him a defensive side or how to read the play and set up.

True but he couldnt find the ball when forward either - that is an inert skill you cant teach that, either you have it our you dont. Both kids were the same weight when they were drafted. Its just another case of our recruiters looking for athletic traits over basic footballing traits.

The clubs who have acheived the ultimate sucess in recent years are clubs that get 60 or 70% of their picks right. We would be lucky to have a 50% sucess rate, even in more recent years after the disastrous years of Elshaugh & Pelchen. Its whats holding the club back IMO!

[Wayne42]

What if Gags and co. pass on all of the Saints selections in the June 2 Rookie Draft, what will that tell us ?

If they dont fill at least 3 x spots it will mean they have completely misread the future draft/s and required list balance. The list calls of delisting Savage, Phillips & Parker who would have been useful backups would have been errors. That on top of letting Hind go for zip was a disgraceful list managent call. It seemed our coaches didnt rate Hind highly enough?

Giving up a 2nd round pick in this years draft for Higgins was a poor call IMO. Its great that he was a mad Saints supporter, but they got tied up in the romance over the player value. He is a top 30 player, but will he win you games? What does he offer that Hind didnt? We can garuntee we are paying Higgins a lot more than what Hind would have been asking.

I think Gaggs & Lethlean got wound up in the previous years trade sucess stories and thought everything they did would turn to gold. History tells us that is a long way from the truth.

The recruiting department is no better now than what it was in the Trout, Pelican and Bains era, and that is definitely keeping the club in a holding pattern whilst it tries to select reverse.

Recruiting must be a very tough gig because there are a lot of people who are shite at it.

[Impatient Sainter]

What if Gags and co. pass on all of the Saints selections in the June 2 Rookie Draft, what will that tell us ?

If they dont fill at least 3 x spots it will mean they have completely misread the future draft/s and required list balance. The list calls of delisting Savage, Phillips & Parker who would have been useful backups would have been errors. That on top of letting Hind go for zip was a disgraceful list managent call. It seemed our coaches didnt rate Hind highly enough?

Giving up a 2nd round pick in this years draft for Higgins was a poor call IMO. Its great that he was a mad Saints supporter, but they got tied up in the romance over the player value. He is a top 30 player, but will he win you games? What does he offer that Hind didnt? We can garuntee we are paying Higgins a lot more than what Hind would have been asking.

I think Gaggs & Lethlean got wound up in the previous years trade sucess stories and thought everything they did would turn to gold. History tells us that is a long way from the truth.

The recruiting department is no better now than what it was in the Trout, Pelican and Bains era, and that is definitely keeping the club in a holding pattern whilst it tries to select reverse.

Recruiting must be a very tough gig because there are a lot of people who are shite at it.

Most of the amateur draft watchers/recruiters on Big Footy have a much better strike rate than our recruiting team. Honestly if the club scrapped the entire recruiting team and payed Chris Doere at ESPN Central Footy a retainer, they would have drafted & traded significantly better than our permanent staff.

[Impatient Sainter]

Wonder how long it will take Allison if at all to play AFL football let alone win a weekly award?

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/05/25/ ... -the-year/

[saynta]

Wonder how long it will take Allison if at all to play AFL football let alone win a weekly award?

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/05/25/ ... -the-year/

Allison looked OK playing in the backline for Sandy last Saturday. Had more possessions than the hopeless commentator called too.

[BadRossco]

Callum Poulter looking OK for the pies but of course our wise ones preferred Allison

[Wayne42]

What if Gags and co. pass on all of the Saints selections in the June 2 Rookie Draft, what will that tell us ?

If they dont fill at least 3 x spots it will mean they have completely misread the future draft/s and required list balance. The list calls of delisting Savage, Phillips & Parker who would have been useful backups would have been errors. That on top of letting Hind go for zip was a disgraceful list managent call. It seemed our coaches didnt rate Hind highly enough?

Giving up a 2nd round pick in this years draft for Higgins was a poor call IMO. Its great that he was a mad Saints supporter, but they got tied up in the romance over the player value. He is a top 30 player, but will he win you games? What does he offer that Hind didnt? We can garuntee we are paying Higgins a lot more than what Hind would have been asking.

I think Gaggs & Lethlean got wound up in the previous years trade sucess stories and thought everything they did would turn to gold. History tells us that is a long way from the truth.

Looks like Fools Gold now.

[Impatient Sainter]

After watching the Demons v Bulldogs game last weekend something that really stood out for me as the main difference between the two was Melbournes marking abilities. Their entire team are strong at contested marking from their smalls, to their flankers, mids and key position players. If ever there was a 50/50 contest Melbourne won most.

I dont know if this has been a deliberate recruiting ploy, but if so its working. When was the last time we had a list that could win more than their share of contested marks possible 2009/2010? If you look across our lines our backline does ok, Membrey, King & Marshall in the forwards and our current midfield we have Steele who is a good mark. That on top of their grunt & kicking skills has Melbourne looking good for a real chance at a flag.

[Impatient Sainter]

There has been a fair bit of discussion about the strength of this years draft, I doubt our recruitment team have AFI whether its strong or otherwise. But here is an in depth explanation of a strong midfielders draft cl- huludical on BF.

I am in complete disagreement with the proposed “weak” Top 10 rating for 2021.

The top 10 is going to look something like this:

1) Horne
2) Daicos
3) Sonsie
4) Sinn
5) Chesser
6) Callaghan
7) Roberts
8) Johnson
9) Rachele
10) Gibcus
With all of Williams, Fahey, Van Rooyen, Draper, Erasmus and Hobbs (and probably a couple of others who will inevitably bolt) a chance to break in to the 8-10 range with a strong burst to finish off this season.

This is an extraordinarily strong midfielders first round in my opinion, and one that I don’t believe anyone will look back on and say “that was a pretty weak or even average top 10”.

Horne and Daicos are absolutely off the charts. Both would be a deserving pick 1 in any year in recent memory.

Sonsie is a genuine match-winner. I’m taking him top 5 any year.

The fact that Pick 9 for instance will net a club one of Callaghan, Chesser, Roberts, Johnson or Rachele (unless the club with this pick likes Gibcus or Williams enough to pass on one or more of those mid types) is evidence enough of this. They’re all top 8 talents most years IMO.

So it’s a strong top 10 this year from where I sit, unless there’s some sort of weird requirement for elite KPP’s in a Top 10 for it to be considered strong. Personally I’ll take my chances on the potential next Dangerfield / Neale / Fyfe / Bont / Pendlebury / MacRae / Oliver / Petracca / Martin / Merrett / Parish / Boak / Cotchin etc over a KPP in the top 10 any day. Despite the slight renaissance of key forwards in 2021 due in no small part to “STAAANNNND”, it’s still a midfielder-dominated game.

I do agree that the depth of this year’s draft is average to weak though. Picks 35-60 will likely be a similar crapshoot to 2020.

NOTE: It comes as no surprise we have traded out our 2nd round pick which at this stage would be around pick 25-30.

[Impatient Sainter]

I posted the below in another thread but I think it deserves to be reflected here also-

Players drafted since 2004 that have become All Australian
9 Coll,
WC 8 Adel, Ess, GWS, WB
7 Geel, Haw, Rich
6 Syd
5 Freo
4 Bris, Car, Mel, PA
3 GC, NM
0 ST KILDA

Years since drafting a player who would become an All Australian at their club 4 Geel, WC 5 Freo 6 Melb 7 Bris, Coll, WB 8 Adel, Carl, Ess, GWS, PA, Syd 9 10 11 GC, Rich 12 Haw 13 14 NM 15 16 17 ..... 18 ST KILDA

[CURLY]

Very selective time frame to be honest. Given that we basically built a team that played from 2001 - 2011 in drafts prior to 2004.