Wealthy St Kilda figure Gerry Ryan and former coach Grant Thomas endorse Larry Benge to join Saints board

[Scollop]

Nothing is free. Crouch takes up a spot and he also commands a top end salary relative to others on our list. I'm not convinced that he'll be a premiership player for St Kilda

I commend you for trying to put a positive spin on the Hannebery deal.

The reason we had on field success has nothing to do with Lethlean and Finnis.

We were fortunate enough to gain the services of Brett Ratten. As far as Matt Finnis is concerned...weird how someone can survive for so long when he's achieved didley squat as far as success on field for the St Kilda football club.

The question remains. Did Lethlean take short cuts or will we see this group do it again in 2022 or 2023? I reckon both Lethlean and Finnis are surplus after the appointment of Ratten.

The next question (which is crucial in determining if this admin is fair dinkum about winning a flag ) is whether the focus for the footy club is again on short term needs or on a plan for the longer term benefit of the football club.

So.which top end middle aged mid should have we got instead of Crouch that would not have cost us draft picks??

And Lethlean had nothing to.do with the appointment of Ratten as Coach?

From the Age below

Lethlean (General Manager of Football) brought Ratten into the coaching panel to support the since-departed Alan Richardson.

He also appointed James Gallagher as the List Manager and promoted Chris Liberatore to oversee the recruiting portfolio (the structure and resourcing)

Yet according to you .... Lethers had nothing to with making the Finals last year even though he was instrumental in these appointments??

As far as Finnis achieving diddly squat .... well its pretty clear his remit as CEO is focused primarily on off field success ...... I am not sure if you know but our Club have left Seaford and are now stable back home at a revitalised Moorabbin and we have a brand spanking new state art training facility ..... but hey Finnis has had nothing to do with that and he probably had nothing to with our record membership drive or the new Etihad Stadium deal which is a bit better than the last one

As for Ratten taking over the General Manager of Football position (from Lethlean) and the role of CEO (from Finnis) ...... and coaching ...... well why not ...... I mean if GT can do it and fail anyone can

Lastly the long term or short term ...... I would say we are very very well set up for the long term .... both on and off the field ...... and I would 90 to 95% of supporters would agree with me

So I am not sure what you are smoking but I would advise you to stop

Always respected your posts Devilhead but you’ve thrown in a few personal digs and sledges at times which implies (in my opinion anyway) that you probably don’t believe some of the forward looking statements that you’ve made.

Let’s wait and see how we go next year. If we make top 8 and if this management (Finnis/Lethlean) can lead the club and guide the playing group towards becoming a contender, then I’ll be first to apologise for doubting them

Gee .... I only comprehensively & convincingly debated your arguments ...... and then asked what you were smoking

There is some bad stuff out there so just checking you are ok

I don’t smoke cigarettes and I don’t vape. I don’t do marijuana, or crack pipes or exotic s*** from civet cats and I don’t smoke joints rolled from horse s***.

What sort of stuff are you smoking?

[sunsaint]

I don’t smoke cigarettes and I don’t vape. I don’t do marijuana, or crack pipes or exotic s*** from civet cats and I don’t smoke joints rolled from horse s***.

What sort of stuff are you smoking?

Im betting that the Devil got his hands on some of that stuff that Crouch got caught "carrying" around by the police
to claim that he was a big get by Lethlean is a laughable stretch - Crows clearly wanted him out

[Devilhead]

I don’t smoke cigarettes and I don’t vape. I don’t do marijuana, or crack pipes or exotic s*** from civet cats and I don’t smoke joints rolled from horse s***.

What sort of stuff are you smoking?

Im betting that the Devil got his hands on some of that stuff that Crouch got caught "carrying" around by the police
to claim that he was a big get by Lethlean is a laughable stretch - Crows clearly wanted him out

Nice try ToomuchSunSaint

I seem to remember that most of us Saints supporters were very happy with the Crouch get and that plenty of Crows supporters were pissed that they only got a measly 2nd rounder for him

[Teflon]

I don’t smoke cigarettes and I don’t vape. I don’t do marijuana, or crack pipes or exotic s*** from civet cats and I don’t smoke joints rolled from horse s***.

What sort of stuff are you smoking?

Im betting that the Devil got his hands on some of that stuff that Crouch got caught "carrying" around by the police
to claim that he was a big get by Lethlean is a laughable stretch - Crows clearly wanted him out

Nice try ToomuchSunSaint

I seem to remember that most of us Saints supporters were very happy with the Crouch get and that plenty of Crows supporters were pissed that they only got a measly 2nd rounder for him

I’m wrapt with Crouch what muppet wouldn’t be??
A free swing by picks
Reasonable salary
Good output in year1
What’s not to like?????

[Ghost Like]

I don’t smoke cigarettes and I don’t vape. I don’t do marijuana, or crack pipes or exotic s*** from civet cats and I don’t smoke joints rolled from horse s***.

What sort of stuff are you smoking?

Im betting that the Devil got his hands on some of that stuff that Crouch got caught "carrying" around by the police
to claim that he was a big get by Lethlean is a laughable stretch - Crows clearly wanted him out

Nice try ToomuchSunSaint

I seem to remember that most of us Saints supporters were very happy with the Crouch get and that plenty of Crows supporters were pissed that they only got a measly 2nd rounder for him

I’m wrapt with Crouch what muppet wouldn’t be??
A free swing by picks
Reasonable salary
Good output in year1
What’s not to like?????

Yes, seems a no brainer. I don't get this, "same player as Dunstan" rhetoric. An upgrade, in talent, attitude and two way running.. Dunstan was the type of player only a new Premiership team could pick up as insurance. Literally cost nothing as they will have salary issues once premiership players come off contract. Smart move by Melbourne,.

[saynta]

Dunny might get one game with the dees, but it will be interesting to see if he gets a second.

[samoht]

I expect us to finish top 6 next year (22), we did get a lot right recently - the recent rights do outweigh the one big wrong - the recruit who will remain nameless.
I can overlook other things.

But this is St Kilda we're talking about ...
I'd like the board to declare (or show by their actions) that we will only be recruiting quality and according to our needs from now on - no more trying to fit 6 average pegs into the one hole.

We need to now target a young outside midfielder (or two) of quality - that should be our focus. This would indicate to me that we finally know what we're doing.

[Mr Magic]

I expect us to finish top 6 next year (22), we did get a lot right recently - the recent rights do outweigh the one big wrong - the recruit who will remain nameless.
I can overlook other things.

But this is St Kilda we're talking about ...
I'd like the board to declare (or show by their actions) that we will only be recruiting quality and according to our needs from now on - no more trying to fit 6 average pegs into the one hole.

We need to now target a young outside midfielder (or two) of quality - that should be our focus. This would indicate to me that we finally know what we're doing.

Seriously?
I've got the solution which will make everybody happy.
The Board can remain
Finnis/Lethlean/Gallagher/Liberatore et al can remain

as long as they run each and every decision past Grant Thpmas for his approval.

That's win/win

[Devilhead]

I expect us to finish top 6 next year (22), we did get a lot right recently - the recent rights do outweigh the one big wrong - the recruit who will remain nameless.
I can overlook other things.

But this is St Kilda we're talking about ...
I'd like the board to declare (or show by their actions) that we will only be recruiting quality and according to our needs from now on - no more trying to fit 6 average pegs into the one hole.

We need to now target a young outside midfielder (or two) of quality - that should be our focus. This would indicate to me that we finally know what we're doing.

So you think this board up to now .... don't know what they are doing?

[Life Long Saint]

'd like the board to declare (or show by their actions) that we will only be recruiting quality and according to our needs from now on - no more trying to fit 6 average pegs into the one hole.

We need to now target a young outside midfielder (or two) of quality - that should be our focus. This would indicate to me that we finally know what we're doing.

Are you talking drafting or recruting?
Recruiting is mostly for the now and we've recruited a number of midfielders over the past few seasons.
As well as some KPP that we needed and some ruck depth.

Drafting is way more imprecise.
If you draft for the now, you end up with someone that isn't going to be productive and add value to the team for a number of years.
We should be looking at the list profile and working out which positions we're going to need in 3 years time.
That's who we need to draft. It is extrememly rare that a draftee comes in as an 18yo and has any kind of impact in the first season.
We are also at the mercy of the teams with picks ahead of us. The player we really need may have gone. Do you recruit the next best player of that type (who may not be picked up until much later in the draft) or do you get the best player in a different position?

[Ghost Like]

We draft best available footballer at our pick. It was being scared about the future or trying to predict the future that had us ignore Petracca and pick McCartin.

[Sanctorum]

We draft best available footballer at our pick. It was being scared about the future or trying to predict the future that had us ignore Petracca and pick McCartin.

My understanding is that Richo wanted Petracca but he was overruled as the List Manager at the time believed they needed to cover the impending retirement of Nick Riewoldt, so took Paddy, a decision that will long rate as the biggest drafting blunder in St Kilda's history.

[cwrcyn]

Similar issue with Coffield. Richardson wanted 2 midfielders. We overlooked Naughton. Of course, to make it worse, Coffield isn't a even a midfielder

[samoht]

Similar issue with Coffield. Richardson wanted 2 midfielders. We overlooked Naughton. Of course, to make it worse, Coffield isn't a even a midfielder

And this is why we need to finally draft a quality, genuine "outside" midfielder/playmaker this time. We are long overdue for one.

Young midfielders usually develop faster than the lanky, key position players - both Walsh and Bailey Smith hit the ground running.

[Devilhead]

Yes but Walsh & Smith hit the ground running at picks 1 & 7 ..... we have pick 9 likely to go to pick 11 after F-S picks come into play

So outside mids available at that pick (11).... well there may be a few like Sinn (who some will complain as being another back flanker) but just going for an outside ball accumulator would also be ignoring the option of picking best available, especially when we are likely to get Owens & Windhager who could be considered as running mids

So do we go for positional needs (outside Mid) or best available no matter the position??

Always a fun argument!!

Think we are on record as saying we are looking for running power so a mid at 11 is a very likely outcome ..... but who?

[skeptic]

I’ll be devastated if we don’t take either Tyler Sonsie or Wanganeen-Milera - play making runners... one more a power mid with excellent disposal brought on by frequently getting into the best position... the other more reliant on elite skill, poise and decision making

[Ghost Like]

Always best available. The only good thing to come from the McCartin-Petracca fiasco is that lesson.

If the best available is Sonsie, Wang-Mil, Sinn, Erasmus then I think we've got a ripper. Especially if Owens & Windhager are still there after the Top 20.

[sunsaint]

Yes but Walsh & Smith hit the ground running at picks 1 & 7 .....

....yeh bit like our last no.1 pick hit the ground
never got back up

[Devilhead]

Yes but Walsh & Smith hit the ground running at picks 1 & 7 .....

....yeh bit like our last no.1 pick hit the ground
never got back up

How was anyone to know?

[sunsaint]

yes who could have predicted that playing a contact sport while having a hypo could lead to running to silly positions putting your head at risk & getting subsequent concussions would ever happen
or even just tripping over your own two feet
no one

[samoht]

re: the best available player ... as long as it's the best available running, playmaking midfielder. We probably need 2, but 1 would be a good start.

When you're close (and I'm expecting us to finish top 6 next year ('22), barring injuries), you need to put the finishing touches to your team and recruit the right player according to your needs.

When there's holes of a specific shape that need filling the most --- you need to find the right shaped peg to do that. No more willy-nilly/random stuff - at this point, especially - it's time, now, to target and complete our team.

This is what the successful teams do when they're close - they put the finishing touches to their team.

[Life Long Saint]

re: the best available player ... as long as it's the best available running, playmaking midfielder. We probably need 2, but 1 would be a good start.

When you're close (and I'm expecting us to finish top 6 next year ('22), barring injuries), you need to put the finishing touches to your team and recruit the right player according to your needs.

When there's holes of a specific shape that need filling the most --- you need to find the right shaped peg to do that. No more willy-nilly/random stuff - at this point, especially - it's time, now, to target and complete our team.

This is what the successful teams do when they're close - they put the finishing touches to their team.

That player you mention we need is not an 18yo kid.
The 18yo kid will not be ready to be the "finishing touch" for at least three years.
If we need a player for now, then we trade for one. We trade for the now and draft for the future.

[samoht]

The 18yo kid will not be ready to be the "finishing touch" for at least three years.
If we need a player for now, then we trade for one. We trade for the now and draft for the future.

That 18 year old running/playmaker would have been 25 now and playing for us - instead of which he had 40 possessions and was best player in the GF.
We are long, long overdue for this type of player - we have too many inside midfielders, and hence one of the reasons Dunstan had to go.

And, these running midfielders usually hit the ground running ... we've seen that with Bailey Smith, Walsh, etc..

No more dilly-dallying.

You're going to pick a young player anyway ... and midfielders usually perform earlier than the tall, skinny key position players. Another reason to go for the young, running midfielder.

That's the way we should go with our early draft pick ... but, let's see what we do.

(if there's a worthy 23 year old who fits the bill - then maybe we can trade now, if we have enough to trade with).

[B.M]

Never draft for needs

Draft for talent

It has rightly been stated.Drafting and S for a 12-15 year career. Not for a player to fill holes in a current team!

[samoht]

Never draft for needs
Draft for talent
It has rightly been stated.Drafting and S for a 12-15 year career. Not for a player to fill holes in a current team!

I agree with drafting for talent ...

I'm not talking about scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Obviously they will need to be talented.

And if we're talking about a ranking difference of 2-3 places, you go with whoever you need.

I mean Patrick Dangerfield was a pick 10, for instance.
Did we end up with a better player when we went for McEvoy?

This is not an exact science.

You have to use your nous - and at this stage, if a talented kid that meets our needs is available, I reckon we'd be mad not to pick him.

We seem to follow the mock drafts ... here's a 2007 mock draft where Dangerfield was ranked #14. He's the type of player I'm talking about - a dashing midfielder!!
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/ ... ft.397701/