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howlinwolf wrote: Once a club gets up to a Grand Final salary cap issues nearly always
become an issue.
I would think paying Luke $550k a year would put a serious dent in our
chances of winning a flag next year considering the increasing
pressure on our salary cap apart from that.
Would it be fair to the playing group to pay Luke that and compromise
their chances of a flag in 2010 ?
Some have asked what effect Luke leaving will have on the group.
It could also be asked what effect would it have if he stayed ?
Good post except that it's been reported that he will play for LESS at Collinwood han the contract offer made to him for three years to stay at the saints.
So money/salary cap isn't a factor here so yes he is a traitor.
ace wrote:Contrast while Luke Ball turns his back on St Kilda.
David Wojcinski looks likely to be forced into retirement or elsewhere because of Geelong salary cap issues.
Seems all Geelong players put the team needs first, Ball puts his own needs first.
turns his back on sandy. think about it from lukes perspective. the coach did not rate him. he spent half the year at sandy. like most people he just wants to be loved.
clearly RL has done a fantastic job. hes obviously a great coach and a good man. but if he has one weakness from an outsiders perspective it seems hes very stubborn when it comes to selection and certain players.
he was obsessed with eddy. obsessed with the idea that idea that ball and max were no good. obsessed with zac. very stubborn with raph. i think RL's issue is that he has this working class background where he loves fairytales and battlers. sometimes this emotion cloud his judgement....
you have a good point, Con, sort of. RL is cold-hearted at times (Max, and delisting Attard was rough). And clearly has a thing for Eddy and Dempster, the former I feel is not up to standard.
The Max decision seemed to have been colored by the clear fact you don't do to Zac something that could destroy his confidence forever. Clearly Max is in your best 22, on cold hard facts alone, for the GF, and Zac is out. But RL stuck with it.
He's an odd mix of cold-hearted AND blind-sighted by unfounded faith in certain players and not others.
LOL... half a season at Sandy??
Max was not 100% fit FFS. Yeah let's play him and wait until he breaks down. Max only played 7 games this year, andthe majority of the time he was injured... not just kicking dirt at Sandy. Zac played almost the entire season.
As for Eddy... he was given time to develop and ultimately dropped.
I mean how elese do you develop players? Rotating them week-in and week-out? or giving them a steady run?
F*** me, Lyon got us into a GF and we lost 3 games for the year... but he's working class and blinded. Yep.
Talk about a pile of steaming cr@p from you two.
Hotel De Los Muertos: Your room is ready... Care to step inside?
ausfatcat wrote:Harsh Con, If he was a fairy tale block Max would've played, we wouldn't have been 20-2 for the season, and Ball didn't spend half the season in the two's, he was asked to improve certain area's of his game for his and the teams benefit and was unable to do so, thats what lead to his dropping nothing more nothing less.
no u missing my point... its certain kinds of fairytales. i.e battlers made good fairytales.... not the obvious types the fans like. more complex than that.
and once again im not knocking RL - im a massive fan. hes a great fella and i see him at his pub all the time round the corner from my house. hes obvioulsy an awesome coach. just pointing out one potential minor flaw. noone is perfect. i mean hes a 9/10!
i reckon we send luke to port power for burgoyne. this nominating preferred club business is nonsense. we should just get the best deal we can - if that is burgoyne then LB can either play for port or nothing.
no way we should send him to the pies. they are a genuine rival to us for the flag next year. only if they give us something very good. ill take leon.
ausfatcat wrote:Harsh Con, If he was a fairy tale block Max would've played, we wouldn't have been 20-2 for the season, and Ball didn't spend half the season in the two's, he was asked to improve certain area's of his game for his and the teams benefit and was unable to do so, thats what lead to his dropping nothing more nothing less.
no u missing my point... its certain kinds of fairytales. i.e battlers made good fairytales.... not the obvious types the fans like. more complex than that.
and once again im not knocking RL - im a massive fan. hes a great fella and i see him at his pub all the time round the corner from my house. hes obvioulsy an awesome coach. just pointing out one potential minor flaw. noone is perfect. i mean hes a 9/10!
Milton66 wrote:
I mean how elese do you develop players? Rotating them week-in and week-out? or giving them a steady run?
This board used to complain that GT only gave the young kids 1 game and therefore they would never develop. Now we have the opposite and we're still not happy.
Con Gorozidis wrote:i reckon we send luke to port power for burgoyne. this nominating preferred club business is nonsense. we should just get the best deal we can - if that is burgoyne then LB can either play for port or nothing.
no way we should send him to the pies. they are a genuine rival to us for the flag next year. only if they give us something very good. ill take leon.
Except we can't, because Ball is out of contract he needs to agree to the trade, and I can't see him agreeing to goto the power. He will take the PSD before that and goto Melbourne.
ace wrote:Contrast while Luke Ball turns his back on St Kilda.
David Wojcinski looks likely to be forced into retirement or elsewhere because of Geelong salary cap issues.
Seems all Geelong players put the team needs first, Ball puts his own needs first.
turns his back on sandy. think about it from lukes perspective. the coach did not rate him. he spent half the year at sandy. like most people he just wants to be loved.
clearly RL has done a fantastic job. hes obviously a great coach and a good man. but if he has one weakness from an outsiders perspective it seems hes very stubborn when it comes to selection and certain players.
he was obsessed with eddy. obsessed with the idea that idea that ball and max were no good. obsessed with zac. very stubborn with raph. i think RL's issue is that he has this working class background where he loves fairytales and battlers. sometimes this emotion cloud his judgement....
you have a good point, Con, sort of. RL is cold-hearted at times (Max, and delisting Attard was rough). And clearly has a thing for Eddy and Dempster, the former I feel is not up to standard.
The Max decision seemed to have been colored by the clear fact you don't do to Zac something that could destroy his confidence forever. Clearly Max is in your best 22, on cold hard facts alone, for the GF, and Zac is out. But RL stuck with it.
He's an odd mix of cold-hearted AND blind-sighted by unfounded faith in certain players and not others.
LOL... half a season at Sandy??
Max was not 100% fit FFS. Yeah let's play him and wait until he breaks down. Max only played 7 games this year, andthe majority of the time he was injured... not just kicking dirt at Sandy. Zac played almost the entire season.
As for Eddy... he was given time to develop and ultimately dropped.
I mean how elese do you develop players? Rotating them week-in and week-out? or giving them a steady run?
F*** me, Lyon got us into a GF and we lost 3 games for the year... but he's working class and blinded. Yep.
Talk about a pile of steaming cr@p from you two.
read what i said! hes awesome. i just pointed out a potential minor weakness. are you saying he perfect created from gods image?? man oh man! i rate him highly! its ok to love someone and point out something to work on! just saying hes not 100% perfect. noone is. even tiger woods works on his game still. he doesnt just say - hey im awesome - why improve? is that what u want?
and just to make my point - i dont care what anyone says. Dempster is no good. The guy is slow and immobile. Mackie murdered him on GF day. Anyone who could not see that is in denial!
Con, this team has peformed above and beyond what you expected this year.
I am not sure I understand the Dempster/Mackie scenario, it is very rare that all 22 players win their matchup is it not? Oh I see, this is confirmation of the fact that our coach loves battler stories is it not...you are highlighting an example?
I can't believe I am reading this, our coach has a potential flaw of playing favourites.
Let's hope he continues to love Roo and Lenny, or we will be in trouble
SainterK wrote:Con, this team has peformed above and beyond what you expected this year.
I am not sure I understand the Dempster/Mackie scenario, it is very rare that all 22 players win their matchup is it not? Oh I see, this is confirmation of the fact that our coach loves battler stories is it not...you are highlighting an example?
I can't believe I am reading this, our coach has a potential flaw of playing favourites.
Let's hope he continues to love Roo and Lenny, or we will be in trouble
oooh SNAP!!
Hotel De Los Muertos: Your room is ready... Care to step inside?
Milton66 wrote:Yes, I read what you wrote. 100%,Con.
Player abilities aside...
Do you know Lyon's persona as fact?
Coaches are expected to "play the kids" and give them time to dvelop etc... but only when it suits certain supporter's views of said player.
nope not as a fact. its a footy forum im offering an uninformed opinion. just chucking a tehory out there. flying a kite. i might be wrong. i might be right! heck i may be crazy..
SainterK wrote:Con, this team has peformed above and beyond what you expected this year.
I am not sure I understand the Dempster/Mackie scenario, it is very rare that all 22 players win their matchup is it not? Oh I see, this is confirmation of the fact that our coach loves battler stories is it not...you are highlighting an example?
I can't believe I am reading this, our coach has a potential flaw of playing favourites.
Let's hope he continues to love Roo and Lenny, or we will be in trouble
just an example. thats all. no need to love lenny or roo. their performances speak for themselves. thats my point. lets judge on pure performance.
Milton66 wrote:Yes, I read what you wrote. 100%,Con.
Player abilities aside...
Do you know Lyon's persona as fact?
Coaches are expected to "play the kids" and give them time to dvelop etc... but only when it suits certain supporter's views of said player.
nope not as a fact. its a footy forum im offering an uninformed opinion. just chucking a tehory out there. flying a kite. i might be wrong. i might be right! heck i may be crazy..
this is turning into a song lyric...
A wise peron never flies a kite in the middle of a storm.
Hotel De Los Muertos: Your room is ready... Care to step inside?
SainterK wrote:Con, this team has peformed above and beyond what you expected this year.
I am not sure I understand the Dempster/Mackie scenario, it is very rare that all 22 players win their matchup is it not? Oh I see, this is confirmation of the fact that our coach loves battler stories is it not...you are highlighting an example?
I can't believe I am reading this, our coach has a potential flaw of playing favourites.
Let's hope he continues to love Roo and Lenny, or we will be in trouble
just an example. thats all. no need to love lenny or roo. their performances speak for themselves. thats my point. lets judge on pure performance.
It's ok CG, there is no shame in getting rolled by SainerK... it happens to the best of us.
Suggest you don't tangle with her in future.
Hotel De Los Muertos: Your room is ready... Care to step inside?
Con Gorozidis wrote:i reckon we send luke to port power for burgoyne. this nominating preferred club business is nonsense. we should just get the best deal we can - if that is burgoyne then LB can either play for port or nothing.
no way we should send him to the pies. they are a genuine rival to us for the flag next year. only if they give us something very good. ill take leon.
Except we can't, because Ball is out of contract he needs to agree to the trade, and I can't see him agreeing to goto the power. He will take the PSD before that and goto Melbourne.
shesh
imagine that
bally...AND 4 picks in the top ten
Con Gorozidis wrote:i reckon we send luke to port power for burgoyne. this nominating preferred club business is nonsense. we should just get the best deal we can - if that is burgoyne then LB can either play for port or nothing.
no way we should send him to the pies. they are a genuine rival to us for the flag next year. only if they give us something very good. ill take leon.
Except we can't, because Ball is out of contract he needs to agree to the trade, and I can't see him agreeing to goto the power. He will take the PSD before that and goto Melbourne.
shesh
imagine that
bally...AND 4 picks in the top ten
Likely in my view.
With McLean gone, they need an inside leader.
"The inches we need are everywhere around us. They're in every break in the game. Every minute, every second. On this team we fight for that inch. On this team we tear ourselves and everyone around us to pieces for that inch. We claw with our fingernails for that inch. Because we know when we add up all those inches that's gonna make the f***in' difference between winning and losing! Between living and dying!'
anyhoo
for me armo has to come in now
its time to step up mate
get the GC talk off this forum by getting that tank bigger and busting ya ass...you can be a premiership player
im still not convince on lovett either
or bougoyne
Con Gorozidis wrote:i reckon we send luke to port power for burgoyne. this nominating preferred club business is nonsense. we should just get the best deal we can - if that is burgoyne then LB can either play for port or nothing.
no way we should send him to the pies. they are a genuine rival to us for the flag next year. only if they give us something very good. ill take leon.
Except we can't, because Ball is out of contract he needs to agree to the trade, and I can't see him agreeing to goto the power. He will take the PSD before that and goto Melbourne.
shesh
imagine that
bally...AND 4 picks in the top ten
yeah true. i had not thought it through.... sheesh certainly a possibility.... could see him at the dees too... and their captain is 32 or so..... mmmm. LB dees skipper 2011?
I'm Sad he is going, used as a battering ram, played with OP when he should have had an op like Judd.... kids carear was cut short through miss-management IMO.................
And the president said " I did not have sex with that woman"
And our former president said " Football is like golf"
OLB wrote:Our offer to him may have been a massive slap in the face leaving him no choice but to leave.
Footballers may confess to loving a club, but IMO, it's mostly just lip service.
It's a career at the end of the day.
No matter how much you love your job, if another company offered you 40k more and certain assurances that you don't have at your current job, you would be off in a flash.
In 2005 I was convinced he was the best of all the young mids at the club.
Shame.
All the best to him.
The most disappointing thing for me is, I'm going to have to think of another username...
Best post on this s.hit thread.
Ball owes the STKFC nothing.
STKFC owes Ball nothing.
All this talk about character and him being a tratior is so incredibly infantile.
As a supporters Luke Ball is now just an opposition player. He means nothing to me. I wont be losing sleep over him going.
Good luck Luke - dont let the door hit your arse on the way out.
ace wrote:Contrast while Luke Ball turns his back on St Kilda.
David Wojcinski looks likely to be forced into retirement or elsewhere because of Geelong salary cap issues.
Seems all Geelong players put the team needs first, Ball puts his own needs first.
turns his back on sandy. think about it from lukes perspective. the coach did not rate him. he spent half the year at sandy. like most people he just wants to be loved.
clearly RL has done a fantastic job. hes obviously a great coach and a good man. but if he has one weakness from an outsiders perspective it seems hes very stubborn when it comes to selection and certain players.
he was obsessed with eddy. obsessed with the idea that idea that ball and max were no good. obsessed with zac. very stubborn with raph. i think RL's issue is that he has this working class background where he loves fairytales and battlers. sometimes this emotion cloud his judgement....
you have a good point, Con, sort of. RL is cold-hearted at times (Max, and delisting Attard was rough). And clearly has a thing for Eddy and Dempster, the former I feel is not up to standard.
The Max decision seemed to have been colored by the clear fact you don't do to Zac something that could destroy his confidence forever. Clearly Max is in your best 22, on cold hard facts alone, for the GF, and Zac is out. But RL stuck with it.
He's an odd mix of cold-hearted AND blind-sighted by unfounded faith in certain players and not others.
Unfounded faith??? Thats a strange thing to say coming from someone who has never been to a Match Commitee meeting and has (id imagine) never even spoken to any of the coaching staff.
We as fans are of course allowed opinions, but to declare our coach "blind-sighted" (and I think you might be mixing your metaphors there anyway ) with no knowledge of the inner sanctum of the Club is pretty rich IMO
a/ Never heard the expression blind-sighted, mate?
b/ How do you know I've never been to a match committee meeting?
c/ unfounded faith - yes. I argue he has unfounded faith in some blokes. Robert Eddy primarily.
howlinwolf wrote: Once a club gets up to a Grand Final salary cap issues nearly always
become an issue.
I would think paying Luke $550k a year would put a serious dent in our
chances of winning a flag next year considering the increasing
pressure on our salary cap apart from that.
Would it be fair to the playing group to pay Luke that and compromise
their chances of a flag in 2010 ?
Some have asked what effect Luke leaving will have on the group.
It could also be asked what effect would it have if he stayed ?
Good post except that it's been reported that he will play for LESS at Collinwood han the contract offer made to him for three years to stay at the saints.
So money/salary cap isn't a factor here so yes he is a traitor.
I think money/salary cap issues are exactly the problem. That's why we have offered Luke less than what he was on.
He may have been offered less at Collingwood but he thinks he'll get
more game time and thus able to consolidate his value for the rest of
his playing days.
At Stkilda he would most likely get limited game time and it's hard to
sell yourself under those circumstances.
Robert Harvey's last home game. 24 Aug 2008
StKilda 13.17 def Adelaide 6.11
) with no knowledge of the inner sanctum of the Club is pretty rich IMO