Is Caminiti in trouble?

[realdeal]

When it comes to St.kilda FC and the tribunal i was expecting 5-6 weeks so in that regard its a good result but bloody hell, 3 weeks for that is ridiculous.

"Severe Impact"! What a crock. Murphy has concussion issues, anyone bar him and Paddy McCartin and it would be low impact.

The fact the player also ducked into it... 1 or 2 would've been understandable.

I also hope Caminiti keeps sticking up for himself like that...

[Yorkeys]

Hadn't noticed Murphy much before. Seems he can dish but gets embarrassed and affronted when it's given back. Karma bus warming up. Overall a dhead, so fits in nicely with the Magpies. Him and Ginervan, bookends.

[amusingname]

3 weeks is better than I hoped for. Pity the filth player wasn't cited.

It was looked at - insufficient force.

Yeah, Caminiti stayed on his feet and later didn't fake concussion.

You have completely invented a narrative there, unbelievable.

[amusingname]

When it comes to St.kilda FC and the tribunal i was expecting 5-6 weeks so in that regard its a good result but bloody hell, 3 weeks for that is ridiculous.

"Severe Impact"! What a crock. Murphy has concussion issues, anyone bar him and Paddy McCartin and it would be low impact.

The fact the player also ducked into it... 1 or 2 would've been understandable.

I also hope Caminiti keeps sticking up for himself like that...

So someone bumps Steele in the shoulder off the ball on Sunday, it cracks his collarbone again. You are all good with that having no ramifications because anyone else would have just got up?

[WellardSaint]

This Murphy has a history of concussions, a bit like McCartin, who is ko’d by the most seemingly-innocuous incidents.

Concussions has become a minefield for the AFL, hence its desperation to be seen to be taking strong action on anything that leads to a concussion. I see now Ablett Sr will sue the league over historic injuries.

How long before the league puts a limit on how many concussions a player can have before he is retired against his will.

This 'forced retirement' is being talked about right now, I reckon, because of the John Barnes, Ablett and other class actions.
Will come very very soon.

I spent a few years in insurance, and Workers Comp insurers NEVER insure sheep shearers for example, because of back injuries etc.
AFL will need to quickly jump onto the concussion thing to prevent huge payouts

[Templar]

Cross the white line...

Its a contact sport so if you buy into the game you buy into the risk. Otherwise do swimming or tennis.

Imagine a boxer or UFC fighter suing for concussion. Or a carpet layer or electrician for bad knees. Or a cop for getting shot.

[Annoyedsaint]

This Murphy has a history of concussions, a bit like McCartin, who is ko’d by the most seemingly-innocuous incidents.

Concussions has become a minefield for the AFL, hence its desperation to be seen to be taking strong action on anything that leads to a concussion. I see now Ablett Sr will sue the league over historic injuries.

How long before the league puts a limit on how many concussions a player can have before he is retired against his will.

This 'forced retirement' is being talked about right now, I reckon, because of the John Barnes, Ablett and other class actions.
Will come very very soon.

I spent a few years in insurance, and Workers Comp insurers NEVER insure sheep shearers for example, because of back injuries etc.
AFL will need to quickly jump onto the concussion thing to prevent huge payouts

Ok then. Get players to sign waivers.
This business of suspending everyone for anything related to head issues is beyond ridiculous. It’s completely ruining the game. If you won’t sign a waiver then you don’t get paid your $700k a year. To earn that money you need to give up something along the way, otherwise get a 9-5 job like us commoners.

It will be touch footy before we know it.

This is also not a post saying to go out and belt someone each week either or be completely careless.

A combination of strong men and s*** rules are also contributing to this. Getting rewarded with a ball up to hold on to the ball invites more tackles and tacklers are told to lock it in too. If prior opportunity was just that and you can handball/kick in a split second (they can when they want to), then the ball is in motion more often.
Just because you don’t have a good option doesn’t mean you can’t dispose of the ball.

Save the ball ups for genuine scrums or tackles that are instant when you grab the ball.

Coaches would hate it but bad luck, that’s what it was for a long time in the past.

[flack]

Bikers wear helmets, NFL players wear helmets . both to protect their heads. Why doesn't the AFL make helmets compulsory for everyone. It may not stop concussions but it may reduce the effects with a bit of cushioning. Yes, Murphy should have been 1 0r 2 weeks for starting the incident off the ball.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Bikers wear helmets, NFL players wear helmets . both to protect their heads. Why doesn't the AFL make helmets compulsory for everyone. It may not stop concussions but it may reduce the effects with a bit of cushioning. Yes, Murphy should have been 1 0r 2 weeks for starting the incident off the ball.

Helmets will ruin the game aesthetically but are probably inevitable. Wait for someone to die on the field -- will happen some day.

[Annoyedsaint]

Gave himself away after the game too.
If the defender is giving it then bad luck.
If he cops a week so be it, but don’t bow down afterwards….look weak and sends a s*** message.

I found this comment interesting, I have watched the end of the game a few times. It does not seem Caminiti has bowed to anyone. I think Caminiti wasn't putting up with anything Murphy was saying. Pendlebury and other players seemed very interested in the conversation they were having. Caminiti turned his back on Murphy whilst Murphy was still trying to write the narrative of his actions, before and after.

I haven’t seen it again but that was my initial reaction to it with all players standing around.

If it was a bit of an argument and Caminiti staying strong and giving it back then I’m happy with that.
He shouldn’t feel like he owes anyone anything moving forward

[The Fireman]

collingwood s***s me

[Annoyedsaint]

Cross the white line...

Its a contact sport so if you buy into the game you buy into the risk. Otherwise do swimming or tennis.

Imagine a boxer or UFC fighter suing for concussion. Or a carpet layer or electrician for bad knees. Or a cop for getting shot.

Spot on, it’s why tradies are paid at a higher rate per hour earlier in their working lives as there are more risks as they get older.

Same as allowances received on building sites, etc.
Wages are generally calculated with a risk component built in for most jobs with physical exertion or increased risk of injury.

These law suits are just a covert money grab in 95% of cases.

[WellardSaint]

Bikers wear helmets, NFL players wear helmets . both to protect their heads. Why doesn't the AFL make helmets compulsory for everyone. It may not stop concussions but it may reduce the effects with a bit of cushioning. Yes, Murphy should have been 1 0r 2 weeks for starting the incident off the ball.

Will Smith was in a movie about it, was it about NFL players?
They get CTE all the time, apparently

[Scollop]

Summary of last 3 pages...

St K FC getting reamed as usual. We need to move on. Happy with 3 weeks

f*** Off!!

When are we going to stand up for our players and get some proper representation at the tribunal?

Can anyone think of a similar incident where a player gets a love tap with a fore arm from close range and the other guy drops ( we're not talking about a coat hanger at full pace here). Murphy has a problem. The problem should not have been the story or part of the narrative as far as St Kilda defending our player and the charge he was up against.

How come other clubs work out how to discredit and argue the actual charge laid and we can't? They get their players off and we don't

[SaintPav]

Sounds like we were represented by an amateur from Legal Aid.

[Templar]

A combination of strong men and s*** rules are also contributing to this. Getting rewarded with a ball up to hold on to the ball invites more tackles and tacklers are told to lock it in too. If prior opportunity was just that and you can handball/kick in a split second (they can when they want to), then the ball is in motion more often.
Just because you don’t have a good option doesn’t mean you can’t dispose of the ball.

Save the ball ups for genuine scrums or tackles that are instant when you grab the ball.

Coaches would hate it but bad luck, that’s what it was for a long time in the past.

Totally this.

[Banger9798]

1-2 was actually probably Justice given Murphy's actions
3 we copped a bit more of a rap on the knuckles
4 + injustice

Let's just move on

[Scollop]

1-2 was actually probably Justice given Murphy's actions
3 we copped a bit more of a rap on the knuckles
4 + injustice

Let's just move on

Will we cop ‘a bit more’ every single time that one of our players goes up?

Line in the sand.

Let’s just move on

That’s a given, but what have we learned?

We need to throw out the personnel employed and methods that have been used and give our players a chance

St Kilda FC seem to be hopeless (for the last 2 decades) at fighting any charges laid against our players..and yet our opposition seem to be the reverse. Lynch from Richmond gets off. McKay gets off. In the past it’s been Charlie Curnow getting off or Tom Hawkins or Baddy Franklin or that motherfucker from Adelaide that went through Hunter Clark up in Cairns

It’s not just about justice or representation for the individual. It has an impact on the team and on wins or losses for the year. Cammo might have been the difference next week because he would have had something to prove to the club that had the opportunity but didn’t take it

[saintsRrising]

St Kilda FC seem to be hopeless (for the last 2 decades) at fighting any charges laid against our players

AFL wanted 5. We argued it down to 3. When and how often has St Kilda been able to achieve that in the past?

This would a a very rare event in the Saints securing a lesser penalty.


You also need to remember that the landscape has changed and if an opponent is concussed that the player involved is going to ger suspended.

If you thought he would get off, you are way off the current reality.

[Scollop]

St Kilda FC seem to be hopeless (for the last 2 decades) at fighting any charges laid against our players

AFL wanted 5. We argued it down to 3. When and how often has St Kilda been able to achieve that in the past?

This would a a very rare event in the Saints securing a lesser penalty.


You also need to remember that the landscape has changed and if an opponent is concussed that the player involved is going to ger suspended.

If you thought he would get off, you are way off the current reality.

The reality is the incident. Focus on that and forget about ‘what the AFL wanted’

Let’s just mute the noise and the commentary from little weasels like Gerard Whateley.

Assume that someone has been away overseas or they’ve been busy for the last week and they haven’t heard about what happened and they haven’t seen what happened. If you show the incident to a footy person, what would you think they’d say?

I challenge anyone to do it now. Watch the incident without reading all the ‘opinion’ and all the background noise. Was it a brutal hit? It’s like he’s just pushing off the defender to try and get space. He didn’t swing an arm or throw a punch did he??

The AFL is right to be concerned about concussion, but this incident isn’t about concussion.

If Collingwood didn’t protect their player and if Murphy wasn’t a McCartin style accident waiting to happen, and if concussion wasn’t the time bomb that it is, then this incident would only be a fine or maybe at worst 1 week. The kid copped virtually half of what Barry Hall copped when Barry straight out punched Staiker in the face.

The AFL wanted to try and prosecute Andrew MacKay in 2021 for the hit on Clark, but McKay and Adelaide argued successfully and got him off.

If all clubs were treated equally I wouldn’t bother posting and being pissed off about the 3 weeks

[Scollop]

The landscape as you call it is that the AFL ‘pretends’ to be concerned, but allow guys like Patty Cripps and Willy Jr. Rioli to get away with what they did last year. Willy jumped late into a contest and his hip took out Matt Rowell. Our sport will always have incidents like this and these are the incidents that cause a player to have brain injuries.

https://www.afl.com.au/video/724095/rio ... 7772681001

If Rioli cannonballs into Nathan Murphy are we going to adjudicate the incident differently to when he cannonballed into Matt Rowell?

There’s been a good discussion on here around the whole bigger picture around risk and the growing evidence of concussion and CTE in contact sports.

The Caminiti incident didn’t cause Nathan Murphy’s concussion problems (and I don’t believe the force of the impact warrants supsension). Murphy’s problems have occurred because of the nature of our sport with marking contests and collisions at high speed.

Nathan Murphy can go and get f***ed!! Anthony Caminiti didn’t create a concussion problem for Nathan Murphy. Murphy had the problem and will continue to have the problem, just like Paddy McCartin does and just like other former players are struggling with

https://wwos.nine.com.au/afl/daniel-ven ... f004f3e417

[Templar]

AFL wanted 5. We argued it down to 3. When and how often has St Kilda been able to achieve that in the past?

This would a a very rare event in the Saints securing a lesser penalty.

True. We are so damaged that we are relieved with three only because we wouldn't have been surprised if they had come back with seven!

i don't know the machination but otherwise agree with Scollop.that we could probably do better, precedence always seems to stand out for example.

I reckon the club reps must deliberate on the relative merits of creating a massive legal argument and upsetting the apple cart as opposed to taking a softer measured more reasoned approach.

Also what effect on the player/playing group would a massive protracted legal battle with 24/7 media coverage have.

A lot of things to weigh up in a short time.

[asiu]

talking about ageist , confused 'n forgetful

i had my scenes mixed up

it was the furies in face paint 'n carrying lumber
the other muppets on roller skates hanging around toilets
were the punks

we were still playing by the rules in my neck of the woods

one on one 'n not carrying it on when one ended on his arse
AND no weapons ... thankfully

even knuckle dusters were seen as low rent

seems all very civilised by todays standards

[takeaway]

St Kilda FC seem to be hopeless (for the last 2 decades) at fighting any charges laid against our players

AFL wanted 5. We argued it down to 3. When and how often has St Kilda been able to achieve that in the past?

This would a a very rare event in the Saints securing a lesser penalty.


You also need to remember that the landscape has changed and if an opponent is concussed that the player involved is going to ger suspended.

If you thought he would get off, you are way off the current reality.

The reality is the incident. Focus on that and forget about ‘what the AFL wanted’

Let’s just mute the noise and the commentary from little weasels like Gerard Whateley.

Assume that someone has been away overseas or they’ve been busy for the last week and they haven’t heard about what happened and they haven’t seen what happened. If you show the incident to a footy person, what would you think they’d say?

I challenge anyone to do it now. Watch the incident without reading all the ‘opinion’ and all the background noise. Was it a brutal hit? It’s like he’s just pushing off the defender to try and get space. He didn’t swing an arm or throw a punch did he??

The AFL is right to be concerned about concussion, but this incident isn’t about concussion.

If Collingwood didn’t protect their player and if Murphy wasn’t a McCartin style accident waiting to happen, and if concussion wasn’t the time bomb that it is, then this incident would only be a fine or maybe at worst 1 week. The kid copped virtually half of what Barry Hall copped when Barry straight out punched Staiker in the face.

The AFL wanted to try and prosecute Andrew MacKay in 2021 for the hit on Clark, but McKay and Adelaide argued successfully and got him off.

If all clubs were treated equally I wouldn’t bother posting and being pissed off about the 3 weeks

Swiss cheese argument.

"The reality is the incident. Focus on that and forget about ‘what the AFL wanted’"

Why forget about what the AFL wanted? They are prosecuting the case, have studied the incident with far more information available to them than you, so the result they are after is very relevant is it not?


"Let’s just mute the noise and the commentary from little weasels like Gerard Whateley."

What does that mean? I know you are a voracious consumer of all media AFL (junk or not), but I think anyone can form their own opinion.

"Assume that someone has been away overseas or they’ve been busy for the last week and they haven’t heard about what happened and they haven’t seen what happened. If you show the incident to a footy person, what would you think they’d say?"

See below

"I challenge anyone to do it now. Watch the incident without reading all the ‘opinion’ and all the background noise. Was it a brutal hit? It’s like he’s just pushing off the defender to try and get space. He didn’t swing an arm or throw a punch did he??"

I took up your challenge. Caminiti intentionally and aggressively moves towards Murphy, pushes aggressively, both arms, Murphy’s body lowers, and a forearm cops him on the chin. Forceful contact to the head. Not what Caminiti intended, but it happened.

"The AFL is right to be concerned about concussion, but this incident isn’t about concussion."

The incident isn’t about concussion? Why? You contradict that statement in the para below.

"If Collingwood didn’t protect their player and if Murphy wasn’t a McCartin style accident waiting to happen, and if concussion wasn’t the time bomb that it is, then this incident would only be a fine or maybe at worst 1 week. The kid copped virtually half of what Barry Hall copped when Barry straight out punched Staiker in the face."

Murphy has similar problems re concussion to McCartin? Where did you get that from? - media noise? Plenty of AFL players have had more than one concussion.

"The AFL wanted to try and prosecute Andrew MacKay in 2021 for the hit on Clark, but McKay and Adelaide argued successfully and got him off."

Totally irrelevant, different type of incident entirely.

"If all clubs were treated equally I wouldn’t bother posting and being pissed off about the 3 weeks"

As I stated earlier in the thread - 2 weeks, good result, 4 plus weeks, poor result. 3 weeks? Not a bad result, could have been much worse, Saints did well with their reported defence, AFL didn’t get their desired outcome, Saints I believe got a fair hearing.

Caminiti has had his lesson, will come back better for it.

[Annoyedsaint]

St Kilda FC seem to be hopeless (for the last 2 decades) at fighting any charges laid against our players

AFL wanted 5. We argued it down to 3. When and how often has St Kilda been able to achieve that in the past?

This would a a very rare event in the Saints securing a lesser penalty.


You also need to remember that the landscape has changed and if an opponent is concussed that the player involved is going to ger suspended.

If you thought he would get off, you are way off the current reality.

The AFL mirrors society in general.
A complete and utter s*** show.

That’s the only ‘reality’ here.