I'm torn...

[Teflon]

I hear you Teflon ...some on here don't like to admit that they would like to see the side prepare( for want of a better word) for the future with high picks.
When it all boils down 1st pick is better than 2nd etc...no brainer..it's coming to grips with the short term losses and the bravado of saying "I only want to see wins"

I know you don't like losses...I don't either. We will have room in the cap fo FA players...but let's make this season our last High pick season, if it doesn't work at least we gave ourselves the best opportunity

Bang on Fireman and BFUSA nailed it perfectly also as well
Short term pain, use the system and be strategic in our rise - yes we have to choose well but that goes without saying
I'm genuinely amazed this isn't obvious and yep I too don't like losing BUT if losing has a longer term strategy attached to it I'm ok short term with it
We will rise (already showing signs), I just want to see us snag another A grader or 2 if we get the chance to put some real cream into that midfield.

[Bunk_Moreland]

I hear you Teflon ...some on here don't like to admit that they would like to see the side prepare( for want of a better word) for the future with high picks.
When it all boils down 1st pick is better than 2nd etc...no brainer..it's coming to grips with the short term losses and the bravado of saying "I only want to see wins"

I know you don't like losses...I don't either. We will have room in the cap fo FA players...but let's make this season our last High pick season, if it doesn't work at least we gave ourselves the best opportunity

Bang on Fireman and BFUSA nailed it perfectly also as well
Short term pain, use the system and be strategic in our rise - yes we have to choose well but that goes without saying
I'm genuinely amazed this isn't obvious and yep I too don't like losing BUT if losing has a longer term strategy attached to it I'm ok short term with it
We will rise (already showing signs), I just want to see us snag another A grader or 2 if we get the chance to put some real cream into that midfield.

Please answer a simple question.

Why cant we land another A grader or two by way of OOC, DFA or FA?

Considering we will half a mill more than every team on 100% SC and over a million more than we spend on SC this year why cant we get a GUARANTEED A grader instead of going for a potential A greader than wont show their true worth for another three seasons?

I have yet to see you answer this. Instead of willing the team to lose why not use the current trading rules.

And who is better this year Parish, Tucker, Balic, Francis? What happens if we choose a Tambling instead of a Franklin? What happens if we picka Petracca and they do their ACL before they have even played a game for us?

Really to completely ignore the FA, DFA, OOC trading rules now in place, to ignore the advantage we have over almost all other clubs in being sble to use 105% of the SC on FA and OOC's is quite bewildering.

To place all your eggs in one basket on some vague hope that an underdeveloped 18 y.o picked #3 instead of an underdeveloped 18.y.o picked @ #5 will develop in three or so years, while at the same time losing most games seems an extremely risky and short sighted strategy.

You want one or two more A graders. So do I.So go to FA and get them, and at the same time chose a kid in the top ten while getting the team to start winning more games.

I have seen Melbourne and Carlton and to a lesser extent Essendon, Richmond and North fiddle about for decades without getting to the top four. I dont want the Saints to do that on some vague hope of a possible top player in 3 or more years. Go get them in FA and be good next season and the seasons after.

[saintsRrising]

You do not get very early draft picks in a vacuum. You only get them repeatedly if you have rooted your club. You can lustafter no 1 picks in multiple years all ypu like. But if you get them you will have a rooted team.

[saintsRrising]

Fitzroy chose to stuff themselves as they had no money and so chose to minimise salary by playing and paying for kids. For them it was to be uncompetitive vs not playing at all. As it turned out they only delayed the end.Fitzroy is why the salary cap rule came in.

I have a good idea what went on us my then boss looked after Fitzroy player welfare and i helped him with a few things as i new how grim things were.

[The Fireman]

I hear you Teflon ...some on here don't like to admit that they would like to see the side prepare( for want of a better word) for the future with high picks.
When it all boils down 1st pick is better than 2nd etc...no brainer..it's coming to grips with the short term losses and the bravado of saying "I only want to see wins"

I know you don't like losses...I don't either. We will have room in the cap fo FA players...but let's make this season our last High pick season, if it doesn't work at least we gave ourselves the best opportunity

Bang on Fireman and BFUSA nailed it perfectly also as well
Short term pain, use the system and be strategic in our rise - yes we have to choose well but that goes without saying
I'm genuinely amazed this isn't obvious and yep I too don't like losing BUT if losing has a longer term strategy attached to it I'm ok short term with it
We will rise (already showing signs), I just want to see us snag another A grader or 2 if we get the chance to put some real cream into that midfield.

Please answer a simple question.

Why cant we land another A grader or two by way of OOC, DFA or FA?

Considering we will half a mill more than every team on 100% SC and over a million more than we spend on SC this year why cant we get a GUARANTEED A grader instead of going for a potential A greader than wont show their true worth for another three seasons?

I have yet to see you answer this. Instead of willing the team to lose why not use the current trading rules.

And who is better this year Parish, Tucker, Balic, Francis? What happens if we choose a Tambling instead of a Franklin? What happens if we picka Petracca and they do their ACL before they have even played a game for us?

Really to completely ignore the FA, DFA, OOC trading rules now in place, to ignore the advantage we have over almost all other clubs in being sble to use 105% of the SC on FA and OOC's is quite bewildering.

To place all your eggs in one basket on some vague hope that an underdeveloped 18 y.o picked #3 instead of an underdeveloped 18.y.o picked @ #5 will develop in three or so years, while at the same time losing most games seems an extremely risky and short sighted strategy.

You want one or two more A graders. So do I.So go to FA and get them, and at the same time chose a kid in the top ten while getting the team to start winning more games.

I have seen Melbourne and Carlton and to a lesser extent Essendon, Richmond and North fiddle about for decades without getting to the top four. I dont want the Saints to do that on some vague hope of a possible top player in 3 or more years. Go get them in FA and be good next season and the seasons after.

we will Joff and they will go nicely with our high pick this year, it's about maximising opportunity Next season...on the way up.

[plugger66]

I hear you Teflon ...some on here don't like to admit that they would like to see the side prepare( for want of a better word) for the future with high picks.
When it all boils down 1st pick is better than 2nd etc...no brainer..it's coming to grips with the short term losses and the bravado of saying "I only want to see wins"

I know you don't like losses...I don't either. We will have room in the cap fo FA players...but let's make this season our last High pick season, if it doesn't work at least we gave ourselves the best opportunity

Bang on Fireman and BFUSA nailed it perfectly also as well
Short term pain, use the system and be strategic in our rise - yes we have to choose well but that goes without saying
I'm genuinely amazed this isn't obvious and yep I too don't like losing BUT if losing has a longer term strategy attached to it I'm ok short term with it
We will rise (already showing signs), I just want to see us snag another A grader or 2 if we get the chance to put some real cream into that midfield.

Clutching



At



Straws.

A grader? Is there a rule that you cant get them at pick 4? Please explain that rule otherwise its just hot air and wasted words.

[The Fireman]

Simple Question...does a high pick give you more power at the table come draft time? Re selecting the type of player or the trade value of that pick? than a lower pick ?


Is it better to have a higher pick than not?

I'm confused now.

[SaintPav]

We're top of the bottom rung of teams.

Can anyone realistically see us finishing higher than were we currently are on the ladder?

No risk of us finishing mid table somewhere like 9th which to many is the place of dead roads.

So worse case scenario is pick 5 in the draft.

So the baseline isn't finishing 9th v 18th. It's 14th v 18th and the draft results are reasonably random.

Does anyone really think that the idea of "lets keep losing until we're ready to climb the ladder" really work? I don't think so.

I do agree that we may need to keep manufacturing additional and lower picks but it is getting harder to do this each year. We'll have to give up something for that to happen and I'm not channeling what's his face either.

So you agree we will continue to need lower picks but would rather we give up something to get them?

I think I'll take my chances with the short term pain now.

Is a rise up the ladder guaranteed for anyone? no.
Can we have pick 1 and stuff it up? yes.
Should we get ourselves the highest choice available while we are losing games? IMHO yes as its the only benefit this current shytty system offers.Take it, choose wisely and cross everything that the draft gods serve up another Judd, Ball, Hodge year.....

Yes, and I'm not sure how, but an extra first round draft pick or early second round pick would be nice.

Easy to say game the system and finish last to secure the prize but it will obviously comes at a price, which is finishing after Carlton and they are currently a rabble.

Do you want us to be worse than a rabble?

Whats the price and how is that measured?

I dont agree.

We are bottom now for a reason - the club is selling 'road to 2018' again for a reason SO the short period (and I stress short period)we are down lets maximise our choices is what Im saying.

I dont subscribe to the 'ohhh we will become Carlton' thats utter nonsense - different club, different people and I am very confident our people in charge have a course and we wont be Carlton (who are held ransomed by wealth benefactors and internal bickering)

Agree an extra first rounder/early second would be lovely - IMHO we simply still dont have enough A Grade .....love another top 5.....or so..

We'll slide when Roo, Chips, Montagna et al go so it all might take care of itself.......whatever happens I just hope we get the earliest CHOICE we can while we are bottoming out.

I don't want us finishing last. Is that ok with you?

You should have some faith.

It's entirely because I have faith that a low finish right now doesn't bother me - is that alright with you?
I'd save the "have faith" stuff for those pretending that if we lose a few more games we automatically turn into Melbourne !!

You're dogmatic, I'll give you that.

Any thoughts on how this grand plan will be implemented like who would instruct the coach to intentionally lose and who would take the fall if the club was caught?

[Bunk_Moreland]

Simple Question...does a high pick give you more power at the table come draft time? Re selecting the type of player or the trade value of that pick? than a lower pick ?


Is it better to have a higher pick than not?

I'm confused now.

Dont be confused, but there is no guarantee the recruiters will take the right player. We could take a Tambling and the next pick could be A Buddy (did actually happen)

So we get a pick @ # 5 after winning 7-8 games, we also pick up an A grader in FA, a trade like a Josh Bruce @ #48 and we also get much needed wins into the current young list. The player chosen #5 wont show anything until probably 2017-18.

We have #1 in 2014 and chose McCartin. Nobody knows if he will be any good, could be a Jack Watts or Bryce Squibbs, no guarantee the player picked high will be any good compared to a deadset A grader from FA

[SaintPav]

Simple Question...does a high pick give you more power at the table come draft time? Re selecting the type of player or the trade value of that pick? than a lower pick ?


Is it better to have a higher pick than not?

I'm confused now.

Dont be confused, but there is no guarantee the recruiters will take the right player. We could take a Tambling and the next pick could be A Buddy (did actually happen)

So we get a pick @ # 5 after winning 7-8 games, we also pick up an A grader in FA, a trade like a Josh Bruce @ #48 and we also get much needed wins into the current young list. The player chosen #5 wont show anything until probably 2017-18.

We have #1 in 2014 and chose McCartin. Nobody knows if he will be any good, could be a Jack Watts or Bryce Squibbs, no guarantee the player picked high will be any good compared to a deadset A grader from FA

Having pick one won't guarantee the right player, as you know.

Roo and Kosi were considered close to line ball when it came to being the top pick for that year.

[gringo]

I hear you Teflon ...some on here don't like to admit that they would like to see the side prepare( for want of a better word) for the future with high picks.
When it all boils down 1st pick is better than 2nd etc...no brainer..it's coming to grips with the short term losses and the bravado of saying "I only want to see wins"

I know you don't like losses...I don't either. We will have room in the cap fo FA players...but let's make this season our last High pick season, if it doesn't work at least we gave ourselves the best opportunity

Bang on Fireman and BFUSA nailed it perfectly also as well
Short term pain, use the system and be strategic in our rise - yes we have to choose well but that goes without saying
I'm genuinely amazed this isn't obvious and yep I too don't like losing BUT if losing has a longer term strategy attached to it I'm ok short term with it
We will rise (already showing signs), I just want to see us snag another A grader or 2 if we get the chance to put some real cream into that midfield.

All I'm saying is that the Saints won't finish outside the bottom 5 anyway. We will get a good player by the fact we are s***. We could play out of our skins and still not get much higher than that. A top 5 pick is going to be very good. I would rather not lose games full stop.

[asiu]

Yes lots of words but so many to educate who can blame me?

lol

[remboy]

Dont be confused, but there is no guarantee the recruiters will take the right player. We could take a Tambling and the next pick could be A Buddy (did actually happen)

You mean like taking a superstar such as Jodie Arnol at pick 3 rather than the spud Peter Matera, who went at pick 4. Not that that would ever happen.

[SaintPav]

Dont be confused, but there is no guarantee the recruiters will take the right player. We could take a Tambling and the next pick could be A Buddy (did actually happen)

You mean like taking a superstar such as Jodie Arnol at pick 3 rather than the spud Peter Matera, who went at pick 4. Not that that would ever happen.

That's pre internet age so it doesn't count.

[The Fireman]

a pick doesn't guarantee anything, of course I realise that but would still rather have the higher pick..which also has massive trade value. The chances of getting a better player with a high pick is better ...no ? I can't believe I am still trying to explain this.

I thought that would be a no brainer.

[saint-stu]

I'm not sure if citywest if a troll or not as many keep suggesting. But if he is, 11 pages, mission accomplished!

[maverick]

I would rather finish with 6 wins and 3rd last than 3 wins and last
The difference between pick 1 and 3-4 is stuff all most years if not every year
But the difference between a losing mindset or tanking and having a crack and winning a few can be massive.

[kosifantutti]

a pick doesn't guarantee anything, of course I realise that but would still rather have the higher pick..which also has massive trade value. The chances of getting a better player with a high pick is better ...no ? I can't believe I am still trying to explain this.

I thought that would be a no brainer.

I don't think anyone is disputing that. If you had a choice between pick one and pick 2, you would take pick one.

But you don't get a choice. You get pick one by being s*** and losing a lot of games.

That doesn't help our membership.
It doesn't help us attract sponsors.
It doesn't help the development and attitude of our current players.

I'm still waiting to hear about that Premiership team who finished at or near the bottom for three or more years and went on to win the flag with all those early draft picks.

[saintsRrising]

Simple Question...does a high pick give you more power at the table come draft time? Re selecting the type of player or the trade value of that pick? than a lower pick ?


Is it better to have a higher pick than not?

I'm confused now.

It is best to have the last pick in the first round.

[Bunk_Moreland]

Simple Question...does a high pick give you more power at the table come draft time? Re selecting the type of player or the trade value of that pick? than a lower pick ?


Is it better to have a higher pick than not?

I'm confused now.

It is best to have the last pick in the first round.

And unfurl your flag at the first home game the following season

[kosifantutti]

Simple Question...does a high pick give you more power at the table come draft time? Re selecting the type of player or the trade value of that pick? than a lower pick ?


Is it better to have a higher pick than not?

I'm confused now.

It is best to have the last pick in the first round.

And unfurl your flag at the first home game the following season

You guys have got it all wrong. We didn't lose a grand final in 2010, we secured pick 17.

[Teflon]

I think we've moved beyond needing Riewoldt to win us a game. How did he go against the Dogs?

And surely based on last night we're a lock against the Dockers.

Don't care not the point besides Im still waiting on that list of Premiership sides that don't have top end draft talent in them??

Not the point of what? I was replying to a specific post. I'm sorry if I wasted your time.

In terms of Premiership teams in recent years off the top of my head:
Hawthorn had one year near the bottom, got a priority pick. You can't do that any more
Sydney, never bottomed out.
Geelong, never bottomed out
Collingwood, see Hawthorn

I'll wait for your examples of teams who spent three or more years at or near the bottom and went on and won the flag.

We all know tanking is no good - no one is mentioning tanking here....
I'd asked you to list the Premiership sides who dont have top draft picks in their line up
If you cant do that then thats fine no harm in admitting it.

Oh and its not the point of the thread.....but anyway...carry on.

[Teflon]

We're top of the bottom rung of teams.

Can anyone realistically see us finishing higher than were we currently are on the ladder?

No risk of us finishing mid table somewhere like 9th which to many is the place of dead roads.

So worse case scenario is pick 5 in the draft.

So the baseline isn't finishing 9th v 18th. It's 14th v 18th and the draft results are reasonably random.

Does anyone really think that the idea of "lets keep losing until we're ready to climb the ladder" really work? I don't think so.

I do agree that we may need to keep manufacturing additional and lower picks but it is getting harder to do this each year. We'll have to give up something for that to happen and I'm not channeling what's his face either.

So you agree we will continue to need lower picks but would rather we give up something to get them?

I think I'll take my chances with the short term pain now.

Is a rise up the ladder guaranteed for anyone? no.
Can we have pick 1 and stuff it up? yes.
Should we get ourselves the highest choice available while we are losing games? IMHO yes as its the only benefit this current shytty system offers.Take it, choose wisely and cross everything that the draft gods serve up another Judd, Ball, Hodge year.....

Yes, and I'm not sure how, but an extra first round draft pick or early second round pick would be nice.

Easy to say game the system and finish last to secure the prize but it will obviously comes at a price, which is finishing after Carlton and they are currently a rabble.

Do you want us to be worse than a rabble?

Whats the price and how is that measured?

I dont agree.

We are bottom now for a reason - the club is selling 'road to 2018' again for a reason SO the short period (and I stress short period)we are down lets maximise our choices is what Im saying.

I dont subscribe to the 'ohhh we will become Carlton' thats utter nonsense - different club, different people and I am very confident our people in charge have a course and we wont be Carlton (who are held ransomed by wealth benefactors and internal bickering)

Agree an extra first rounder/early second would be lovely - IMHO we simply still dont have enough A Grade .....love another top 5.....or so..

We'll slide when Roo, Chips, Montagna et al go so it all might take care of itself.......whatever happens I just hope we get the earliest CHOICE we can while we are bottoming out.

I don't want us finishing last. Is that ok with you?

You should have some faith.

It's entirely because I have faith that a low finish right now doesn't bother me - is that alright with you?
I'd save the "have faith" stuff for those pretending that if we lose a few more games we automatically turn into Melbourne !!

You're dogmatic, I'll give you that.

Any thoughts on how this grand plan will be implemented like who would instruct the coach to intentionally lose and who would take the fall if the club was caught?

Thanks

I liked your earlier post where you agreed we need higher picks but just didnt know how to get em....
We'll get em domnt worry bout that but I hope along the way IF the plan comes down to a loss or 2 to move into top 3 pick contention then we massively develop that week...
Now whats your thoughts on how we get those extra picks you were after?

[Teflon]

Simple Question...does a high pick give you more power at the table come draft time? Re selecting the type of player or the trade value of that pick? than a lower pick ?


Is it better to have a higher pick than not?

I'm confused now.

It is best to have the last pick in the first round.

And unfurl your flag at the first home game the following season

You guys have got it all wrong. We didn't lose a grand final in 2010, we secured pick 17.

Bang on Kos - there is always a silver lining even when bottoming out
Your getting it Kos

How bout Roo against those doggies??

[Teflon]

I would rather finish with 6 wins and 3rd last than 3 wins and last
The difference between pick 1 and 3-4 is stuff all most years if not every year
But the difference between a losing mindset or tanking and having a crack and winning a few can be massive.

Fair enough thats your view but I cant see in the long run how losing 2-3 more games would mean the club will self destruct into this supposed loser abyss?

I am staggered some have so little faith in a club thats already been mediocre for a long time and not done that...

Id rather maximise my choices thanks and IF that means I get an option on an absolute superstar I'll take that cause we all know you need talent to win flags.