Ross Lyon on The Couch this Monday

[Spinner]

What did you think of him when he coached us?

RL was atrocious the first 18 months with his corralling and killing off the careers of our power players rather than runners.

2009 he was great when our list was at its peak and he had learned corralling did not work. The stars aligned with what he had learned from Paul Roos and our list peaking.

But IMO RL cost us the GF by not playing Ball for most of the second half when conditions suited and he was playing at his best.

In 2010 RL did not positively build on his game plan and I don't believe he has since. Roo got us through the prelim and BJ and Lenny the first GF. The GF played by BJ and Lenny were the best I have seen from saints footballers.

With Lenny, Roo and BJ injured last year RL could do nothing.

If Freo really want the flag they got the wrong personnel from the Saints IMO. They need Lenny, Roo and BJ. RL was damn lucky to be given the opportunity with our list and he mucked it IMO.

Lol absolutely no idea.

19 points off a perfect season in 2009. Nothing to do with coaching though - just luck. Laughable.



How you people like you progress with your own lives with reasoning like that.


Here's an activity. Rank all the senior coaches ATM. Then attempt to say he isn't a good coach.

[Enrico_Misso]

Lol absolutely no idea.

19 points off a perfect season in 2009. Nothing to do with coaching though - just luck. Laughable.

Spinner I think you are spinning Shaggy's words.

Does he not say "2009 he (Lyin) was great when our list was at its peak"

His point was that Lyin didn't progress the game plan in 2010 or 11.
He just relied on the 2009 plan (which was brilliant at the time) but by 2010 others (Collingwood) had mastered it and improved it.

[plugger66]

Another hilarious thread. As I have said many times, dont leave our club controversial or you will suddenly be poor at what you did. Doesnt matter that those same people said this guy was the god of coaching even last year.

[dragit]

Graeme Gellie sucked the minute he left…

[Dave McNamara]

Graeme Gellie sucked the minute he left…

Maybe, buy not in my opinion. Still sooooo sad he was cut down with that knee so early on. Way ahead of his time. Huge possession winner & nearly all would set up a team mate... could have been one of our best I reckon.

[dragit]

Graeme Gellie sucked the minute he left…

Maybe, buy not in my opinion. Still sooooo sad he was cut down with that knee so early on. Way ahead of his time. Huge possession winner & nearly all would set up a team mate... could have been one of our best I reckon.

I was thinking "Graeme Gellie - the coach" - 62 games, 10 wins

[clarky449]

Another hilarious thread. As I have said many times, dont leave our club controversial or you will suddenly be poor at what you did. Doesnt matter that those same people said this guy was the god of coaching even last year.

Exactly Plugger. What frustrates me. People just cant accept the fact that he was a very good coach. Seems who ever is in the club at the current time is Amazing but once they are gone.. Never good.

[Dr Spaceman]

Another hilarious thread. As I have said many times, dont leave our club controversial or you will suddenly be poor at what you did. Doesnt matter that those same people said this guy was the god of coaching even last year.

Exactly Plugger. What frustrates me. People just cant accept the fact that he was a very good coach. Seems who ever is in the club at the current time is Amazing but once they are gone.. Never good.

And there are others who rate him as a great/good coach but can nonetheless see that it may be to our advantage that he’s moved on.

He’s no longer here so it no longer matters (well to me anyway)

[SainterK]

Another hilarious thread. As I have said many times, dont leave our club controversial or you will suddenly be poor at what you did. Doesnt matter that those same people said this guy was the god of coaching even last year.

Exactly Plugger. What frustrates me. People just cant accept the fact that he was a very good coach. Seems who ever is in the club at the current time is Amazing but once they are gone.. Never good.

To be fair, a lot of the posters bringing up what they didn't like about him, consistently said these things over the journey.

[plugger66]

Another hilarious thread. As I have said many times, dont leave our club controversial or you will suddenly be poor at what you did. Doesnt matter that those same people said this guy was the god of coaching even last year.

Exactly Plugger. What frustrates me. People just cant accept the fact that he was a very good coach. Seems who ever is in the club at the current time is Amazing but once they are gone.. Never good.

To be fair, a lot of the posters bringing up what they didn't like about him, consistently said these things over the journey.

Not to many at all if I remember. Certainly no where near as many as now and some are the same posters who said how good of a coach he was.

[SainterK]

Skeptic didn't warm to him, MB didn't, Stinger was consistent, quite a few others I can't think of right now.

[SaintPav]

Another hilarious thread. As I have said many times, dont leave our club controversial or you will suddenly be poor at what you did. Doesnt matter that those same people said this guy was the god of coaching even last year.

Exactly Plugger. What frustrates me. People just cant accept the fact that he was a very good coach. Seems who ever is in the club at the current time is Amazing but once they are gone.. Never good.

It might be wrong but I think that it is perfectly normal normal for people to think that way after what happened.

[SaintPav]

Another hilarious thread. As I have said many times, dont leave our club controversial or you will suddenly be poor at what you did. Doesnt matter that those same people said this guy was the god of coaching even last year.

Exactly Plugger. What frustrates me. People just cant accept the fact that he was a very good coach. Seems who ever is in the club at the current time is Amazing but once they are gone.. Never good.

If other people's behaviour frustrates you it is you who ultimatley has the problem and not the other way around. Good luck with that.

[Con Gorozidis]

Another hilarious thread. As I have said many times, dont leave our club controversial or you will suddenly be poor at what you did. Doesnt matter that those same people said this guy was the god of coaching even last year.

not many people thought he was the god of coaching last year.
most people liked his hardness and demand high standards and ability to stop opposition scoring but there were always grumbles about our lack of scoring and our lack of youth development (remember the old contender v development argument that went on in here which i cant be bothered re-igniting).
its easy to ignore the weaknesses and gloss over the holes when u get the 4 points. and we kept getting the 4 points cos we had a deadly defense and blokes like lendog and fisher etc etc are seasoned stars.
not to mention is obsession with "roles". can the ross lyon lovers please explain robert eddy to me? nothing against the man itself - but the costs were high - every game he played was one less for development and the FACT is we had the lowest amount of games in players under 21 in the AFL for the last 5 years. Lower than Geelong. Lower than the Pies. Lower than the Hawks.
That sh*ts me.

[Con Gorozidis]

Ross Lyon is widely regarded as one of the great coaches of the modern era.

etc etc.....

warming up for the comedy festival in april c2s?

out of interest - how long do you propose an "era' is? i would say an 'era' as several decades.
just this last decade we have :

lethal 4 flags
malthouse 3 flags
bomber 2 flags

thats just from the last decade.

[crippa2sipa]

Another hilarious thread. As I have said many times, dont leave our club controversial or you will suddenly be poor at what you did. Doesnt matter that those same people said this guy was the god of coaching even last year.

Exactly Plugger. What frustrates me. People just cant accept the fact that he was a very good coach. Seems who ever is in the club at the current time is Amazing but once they are gone.. Never good.

It might be wrong but I think that it is perfectly normal normal for people to think that way after what happened.

It's normal because, with due deference to Aristotle, irrational behaviour is the norm not the exception.

[Con Gorozidis]

Exactly Plugger. What frustrates me. People just cant accept the fact that he was a very good coach. Seems who ever is in the club at the current time is Amazing but once they are gone.. Never good.

It might be wrong but I think that it is perfectly normal normal for people to think that way after what happened.

It's normal because, with due deference to Aristotle, irrational behaviour is the norm not the exception.

pretty much everyone accepts he was a very good coach.
a very good coach with a few flaws and weaknesses . he did a lot right but did make the odd mistakes - like everyone because hes human.
but you guys are pushing the barrow he was some kind of superman guru genius sorceror wizard.
thats whats winding everyone up.

[Scollop]

boring, negative ALMOST succesful.

And like other ALMOST successful coaches, he will be judged when his time is up. I reckon they'll be saying things like; too conservative in his footy philosophy and basically too defensive to the detriment of the Saints chances in 2009 and 2010. Maybe he didn't have faith in his assistant coaches and the recruiters either. He didn't understand that he needed to sacrifice the saftey of the senior list to be able to improve the whole team and give the team the best opportunity deep into September. He was stubborn with his favouratism of seniors players and his penchant for GOP instead of giving game time to the youngsters on the list. Instead of blooding a new FF, he tried to bring G out of retirement...WOW...revolutionary

How would Zac Dawson have gone without the tutelage of SOS? How would CJ and Eddy and Mini have gone without Bakes and Lenny as mentors, and to some extent without Dal, Banger and BJ as role models? Like most players who are viewed as GOP at best, some of the guys that got a regular game were given the time and faith to improve their game, and this isn't a stroke of genious...It happens with every sport and isn't really anything revolutionary in coaching.

What's the point of winning 18 games in a row when you may be jeopardising your best opportunity to win the Grand Final?? He lacked the flair and confidence of a coach who had his sights on winning the ultimate prize. Why try and just get there??! He would't take the risk to lose a game or two in late 2009 and plan the season as well as he should have. Ross probably spent his first 12 months at St Kilda defending himself... just as much as spending time on the defensive game plan!!! I wonder if at times the bloke had also questioned whether he was cut out for the head coaching role. I suppose in my mind, he only gained confidence and stopped constantly trying to justify his appointment when he finally had the cojones to relegate two senior players to the magoos. It paid off with a win to the team and a kick in the arse to the senior side and to those two players in particular. Sadly though, this was the last time anything remotely tough was dished out to the senior players. He didn't learn on the job as he should have and he didn't capitalise on our 2009 form and our best opportunity for Premiership number 2. That's when he lost me.

[meher baba]

Skeptic didn't warm to him, MB didn't, Stinger was consistent, quite a few others I can't think of right now.

I never warmed to Lyon as a person, and was extremely critical of his coaching over his first 18 months at the club. But I was strongly and consistently positive about his coaching from mid-2008 through to the end of 2011 (unlike some on here I don't hold him personally responsible for our problems last year). Have a look at my posts following the 2009 GF (if you can still find them), in which I defended his coaching performance in that game against all comers.

I think Lyon is a really clever, thoughtful coach and I expect him to make a big difference at the Dockers: possibly not at first, but gradually over the next few seasons. My only objection to Lyon is that, more than any other current coach, his approach is based entirely upon getting the most out of the current group of players with no significant thought for building for the future. His approach is contrary to my preferred goal for our club of building a consistently strong list over decades: a goal which GT consistently pursued, despite all the ludicrous criticism of what supposedly happened to our list under his regime. I know that many people associated with the club were 100% ok with Lyon's approach and preferred it to GT's: on the grounds that our supporters are absolutely desperate to see us win another flag and are prepared to sacrifice even the longer-term prospects of the club to some extent in order to get one. I don't agree with that line of thought, but I respect it and consider it to be a reasonable one.

Anyway, given that this was the strategy, Lyon did everything you could have asked a coach to do towards achieving the goal of a premiership. That we didn't get one was due to the players letting us down in front of goal (2009) and the bounce of the ball on the day (2010).

So I now believe that one cannot praise Lyon highly enough for what he achieved at our club. The view seemingly held by many on here that, once someone chooses to leave our club to work elsewhere, they become fair game for a torrent of abuse, is completely childish: be it applied to GT, Luke Ball, Max H (when he was at the Pies), Lyon, Tommy Walsh or whoever else you like. If they choose to bag our club in public, then perhaps that's fair enough, but, like Ball before him, Lyon has chosen not to do this and he deserves a bit of respect IMO.

[plugger66]

Skeptic didn't warm to him, MB didn't, Stinger was consistent, quite a few others I can't think of right now.

I never warmed to Lyon as a person, and was extremely critical of his coaching over his first 18 months at the club. But I was strongly and consistently positive about his coaching from mid-2008 through to the end of 2011 (unlike some on here I don't hold him personally responsible for our problems last year). Have a look at my posts following the 2009 GF (if you can still find them), in which I defended his coaching performance in that game against all comers.

I think Lyon is a really clever, thoughtful coach and I expect him to make a big difference at the Dockers: possibly not at first, but gradually over the next few seasons. My only objection to Lyon is that, more than any other current coach, his approach is based entirely upon getting the most out of the current group of players with no significant thought for building for the future. His approach is contrary to my preferred goal for our club of building a consistently strong list over decades: a goal which GT consistently pursued, despite all the ludicrous criticism of what supposedly happened to our list under his regime. I know that many people associated with the club were 100% ok with Lyon's approach and preferred it to GT's: on the grounds that our supporters are absolutely desperate to see us win another flag and are prepared to sacrifice even the longer-term prospects of the club to some extent in order to get one. I don't agree with that line of thought, but I respect it and consider it to be a reasonable one.

Anyway, given that this was the strategy, Lyon did everything you could have asked a coach to do towards achieving the goal of a premiership. That we didn't get one was due to the players letting us down in front of goal (2009) and the bounce of the ball on the day (2010).

So I now believe that one cannot praise Lyon highly enough for what he achieved at our club. The view seemingly held by many on here that, once someone chooses to leave our club to work elsewhere, they become fair game for a torrent of abuse, is completely childish: be it applied to GT, Luke Ball, Max H (when he was at the Pies), Lyon, Tommy Walsh or whoever else you like. If they choose to bag our club in public, then perhaps that's fair enough, but, like Ball before him, Lyon has chosen not to do this and he deserves a bit of respect IMO.

Great post and exacltly how I feel about RL and his coaching. Pity i failed England and wouldnt have been able to right that.

[Dr Spaceman]

Great post and exacltly how I feel about RL and his coaching. Pity i failed England and wouldnt have been able to right that.

[skeptic]

to me it's very simple.

Lyon is not incompetent or stupid or anything like that. He was a decent coach.

IMO with what he had, he could have done better.

I didn't really like him prior to 2009. Watching rd1 2009 when we were trailing the swans at the dome after another goaless 1st quarter, I was ready to post a thread saying IMo we shd axe him. Fortunetly I waited to post and good thing to as it turned out we didn't lose a game for the next 19 rds.

For mine, I don't think he coached well leading up to the GF in 09 and I don't think he had the right... I'm not sure what word I'm after here... attitude to address the concerns that he surely must have seen popping up.
I don't think it's fair to just blame the players in the 09 GF for missing goals when we could have had a more balanced side with better coaching moves on the day to maximise our chances.

2010 passed with what I felt were a large number of signs of irrational thinking and poorly thought out moves or lack thereof. I'll make it very clear that IMO Lyon coached us out of a flag that IMO was clearly ours for the taking...frequently selecting players that were out of form, mediocre, underdone and injured.

2011 saw that pattern continue but with the big 3 in Roo, Hayes and Goddard down... we saw the detriment of what he was doing to a greater effect.

In 2011 McQualter's form was no worse than 2010, when he played 20+ games, yet he was dropped. He was always that bad post the latter half of 2009 9though he played well enough to hold his spot then).

The question mark for me is our "poor recruiting" over that time... guys that couldn't get a game despite the need for that type of player and are now out of the system... for mine i felt the coach let a lot of these guys down. Can't prove it obviously though. Will be keen to watch guys like Lynch have a crack at their new clubs and watch some of our underperforming players ala Armitage, Stanley, Winmar see if they can turn it around at all. That will give us an indication at least.

Final verdict decent coach who underperformed

[SaintPav]

Skeptic didn't warm to him, MB didn't, Stinger was consistent, quite a few others I can't think of right now.

I never warmed to Lyon as a person, and was extremely critical of his coaching over his first 18 months at the club. But I was strongly and consistently positive about his coaching from mid-2008 through to the end of 2011 (unlike some on here I don't hold him personally responsible for our problems last year). Have a look at my posts following the 2009 GF (if you can still find them), in which I defended his coaching performance in that game against all comers.

I think Lyon is a really clever, thoughtful coach and I expect him to make a big difference at the Dockers: possibly not at first, but gradually over the next few seasons. My only objection to Lyon is that, more than any other current coach, his approach is based entirely upon getting the most out of the current group of players with no significant thought for building for the future. His approach is contrary to my preferred goal for our club of building a consistently strong list over decades: a goal which GT consistently pursued, despite all the ludicrous criticism of what supposedly happened to our list under his regime. I know that many people associated with the club were 100% ok with Lyon's approach and preferred it to GT's: on the grounds that our supporters are absolutely desperate to see us win another flag and are prepared to sacrifice even the longer-term prospects of the club to some extent in order to get one. I don't agree with that line of thought, but I respect it and consider it to be a reasonable one.

Anyway, given that this was the strategy, Lyon did everything you could have asked a coach to do towards achieving the goal of a premiership. That we didn't get one was due to the players letting us down in front of goal (2009) and the bounce of the ball on the day (2010).

So I now believe that one cannot praise Lyon highly enough for what he achieved at our club. The view seemingly held by many on here that, once someone chooses to leave our club to work elsewhere, they become fair game for a torrent of abuse, is completely childish: be it applied to GT, Luke Ball, Max H (when he was at the Pies), Lyon, Tommy Walsh or whoever else you like. If they choose to bag our club in public, then perhaps that's fair enough, but, like Ball before him, Lyon has chosen not to do this and he deserves a bit of respect IMO.

Top post. Totally agree. People bag him for lacking flair in GF or whatever and not being able to get us over the line but he got us there in the first place. In some ways, the 2010 was a better effort than 2009 given what transpired during the season.

I've had a couple of Bulldogs supporters say to me: "well at least you guys make grand finals". Little consolation but at least it's something.

[SaintPav]

I don't think it's fair to just blame the players in the 09 GF for missing goals when we could have had a more balanced side with better coaching moves on the day to maximise our chances.

Lyon was all about game plan and structure..not making willy nilly moves especially given the amount of forward 50 entires in the first half of the 09 GF.

2010 passed with what I felt were a large number of signs of irrational thinking and poorly thought out moves or lack thereof. I'll make it very clear that IMO Lyon coached us out of a flag that IMO was clearly ours for the taking...frequently selecting players that were out of form, mediocre, underdone and injured.

His coaching got us back into the game and like I've said in the previous post, the 2010 effort to even get into a GF and nearly pinch it was awesome.

Final verdict decent coach who underperformed

You must have a very high benchmark for outperforming and with a 63% strike rate, you are a hard person to please.

[loris]

For those who can't get enough of a fix of Ross Lyon here's your chance next Wednesday. Just heard Geoff Hutchinson, Perth ABC radio announcer saying he was having Ross Lyon on for an interview on his program. He said it won't be so much about Ross Lyon the football coach it will be more indepth session about Ross Lyon the man.

So tune into ABC radio 720 Perth. I'll try and find out what time he actually will be on. Hutchy's program goes from 8.30am - noon. Usually when he has an indepth analysis of someone it goes for 30 minutes.

There are pros & cons to an Hutchy interview.

Pros:
H is v.good political interviewer, who really pins pollies down and does'nt let them get away will "polly speak".

He interviewed Lyon earlier when he got the job at Freo and so far has been the only interviewer I've heard that has really put the blast furnance to Lyon and his dealing with the Saints & Freo last year. He had Lyon really toungue-tied that time, with Lyon eventually refusing to reposnd to difficult questions. As interview was going no where Huthcy relented and got it onto football................. then Lyon was in his element.
There was mixed reactions to that interview. Half the callers said Hutchinson was too hard on Lyin and it wasn't fair as he was only a football coach, the other half (Harvey supporters me thinks) accused Hutchy of going soft on him.

Cons:

Hutchy is a real Freo supporter.................. so that may colour the interview somewhat I should imagine...... but maybe not. He usually is very professional interviewer.

Anyway the promo I heard today said it will focus more on the man, his family, what drives him, the good and the bad things that have happened to him. Difference between life as a football pro in Sydney, Melbourne & Freo.

So Lyin lovers you might want to tune your digital radios to 'Mornings with Geoff Hutchinson at ABC 720 Perth WA. Most ABC radio programms are pod cast (what ever that means) and I know you can listen on-line.................. if you know how to do that.

I'll attempt to find out exactly what time slot it's on for any Lyin lovers.

I won't be listening, so sorry no report from me. I've moved on he's an ex-coach, who I wasn't that enamoured with to begin with and I'm definitely not interested in his life story.