Questions re the existing players

[desertsaint]

more pressure now to make the 1's ... pressure makes diamonds

long after it kills you.

[groupie1]

Why is our #1 ruckman, and RU best and fairest not playing in the ruck?

I wouldn’t have recruited Ryder full stop.

Bruce gone Ryder recruited, Ryder can’t play Key Forward so it’s my assumption he will play ruck and Marshall forward as much as I disagree with it.

Disagree. Some of Ryder's forward craft is top shelf.

Maybe 5 years ago, if you watched him this year you would not be making the above comment in my opinion.

I've seen him forward at Port (however long that has been), and he takes big grabs, kicks around the body well, big physical presence, pretty smart from the pockets. (But I can't remember how long he's been at PA)

[sunsaint]

more pressure now to make the 1's ... pressure makes diamonds

long after it kills you.

so a bit like a mushy mess ?

[Scollop]

Lonie will have to play well to hold his spot, but on current form is ahead of all other small forwards (Gresham aside, who is a mid/fwd)

My order on last years output would be
Lonie, Kent, Hind, Parker, Long, Butler, Young
With Gresham rotating

That order could easily change with form

Billings and Gresham rotating.

Long > > > Parker > Hind > Butler >>>>>>>>>> Lonie, Young, Kent.

Ben Long will be an absolute star.

Potentially elite.

Definitely not enough love on here for him at this stage.

I think anyone who has Lonie ahead of Long is channeling Forest Gump!

Absolutely agree with you 100% on Long. He was brilliant against Freo. Longy got about 15-20 touches and all of them were damaging and set up his team mates.

Long also does things which don't get on the stat sheet (like that awesome well timed bump on Levi Casboult). Or when he gets a finger nail on the footy or creates opportunities for his teammates


In the following you'll see him tapping the ball on to Stuv in the first few seconds of the video and it's these sorts of team plays which gave us a chance to win the game http://www.google.com.au/url?q=https:// ... yPZ97JYdU8

Lonie has played a few good games here and there but I 'm wrapped we've picked up Butler.

I also have Parker and Kent ahead of Lonie. If we need a leftie on the forward pocket both JB and Dunstan can slide down there from time to time

[B.M]

Hmm?...

Lonie gets a tough deal on here... for whatever reason?

Plays the worst position on the ground to be consistent. Plays extremely well, still can’t get any credit.

Will guarantee you this
If not injured in R1 he will play seniors.

[Yorkeys]

JL in final contract year - will be nagging BR for a game and spending all available time in weights room and asking B. Slater about tackling. If JL is regular first pick fwd pocket we are unlikely to play finals. (No guarantee but free replacement plus postage and handling; plus a heavy discount on future predictions for every goal over 20 for season).

[barks4eva]

Hmm?...

Lonie gets a tough deal on here... for whatever reason?

Plays the worst position on the ground to be consistent. Plays extremely well, still can’t get any credit.

Will guarantee you this
If not injured in R1 he will play seniors.

Go watch the last game against Sydney and then watch Brett Ratten's press conference where he was appalled at the general skill level.

Lonie was the chief offender, he was appalling, not even Metropolitan football standard.
I have no doubt he was in the forefront of Ratten's mind when he made his critical assessment.

Lonie missed targets from 15 metres away... it was farcical.
I also remember he had taken a mark 30 metres out directly in front... I rushed to the kitchen to quickly do something and when I returned less than 20 seconds later I saw a ball being touched over the goal line between the point and goal post.
I was thinking WTF happened... correct me if I'm wrong but I can only assume Lonie had trouble making the distance while completely missing the target.
Cue Ratten's presser.
Hence Dan Butler.

I'll be very surprised if Lonie is in the 22 come round one if Long, Butler and Parker are available.

I would not have Lonie in the best 32.

[B.M]

That’s one bad game, can happen... especially as a small forward

What about his Round 18 game

17 kicks
3 handballs
2 tackles
4 goals, 3 behinds
3 Brownlow Votes

Doesn’t suit the agenda

What about Round 4

17 possessions
5 tackles
3 goals, 5 behinds

Or a game versus Hawthorn late in 2018

18 possessions
2 tackles
4 goals
1 Brownlow Vote

Not bad for a guy not up to metropolitan football standard

In fact, in his last 30 games as a forward pocket, he’s averaged
15 disposals
1.4 goals
2.5 tackles

Which are great numbers... far better than Long, Kent and Butler

And when he plays VFL he gets 25+, hits the scoreboard and is so far above vfl it’s not funny. Yes he is small, yes he is a forward pocket... but to say he’s not at suburban level is a joke

Let’s deal with the facts

He’s no gun, but he’s the best performed small forward on the list by a considerable margin (Gresham aside who is a mid/forward)

[spert]

I think had some in the team played with Lonie's desperation at the contest this season, then we would have won a couple more games. Long is interesting, great talent, but in the games I saw him play, I thought he got caught a bit watching the game and needed to work harder off the ball, same goes for Parker, but that's inexperience and can be fixed with coaching

[barks4eva]

Or a game versus Hawthorn late in 2018

18 possessions
2 tackles
4 goals
1 Brownlow Vote

That game Lonie was playing on an Irish rookie recruit and two of his four goals resulted from clumsy tackles. It might've been the Irish rookie's first and only game... correct me if I'm wrong.
On the surface four goals sounds very impressive but in reality two were gifted.

[Scollop]

Round 18 versus the Doggies, JL was the beneficiary of a very switched on midfield, with Marshall dominating, Jack Billings having one of his best games for the year and Acres also having a huge influence

Lonie has limitations and the opposition would be doing more homework on him after those games where he picked up cheap free kicks for high tackles. I doubt that he would be earning frees in finals against more switched on opponents


JL also gets multiple opportunities and wastes the footy on too many occasions. When he actually crumbs it in his own right as opposed to getting a free for a high tackle he bloody kicks points.

I think it's great for Jack personally, the way he fought his way back into the seniors with consistent efforts in the VFL, and a couple of good games in late 2018. Saved his career and probably kept him relevant. I doubt he'd have played many senior games if he was picked up by another club (as was reported).

[Scollop]

One of the most important aspects of a head coach's role imo, is to identify asap which players are worth recruiting and which players are worth keeping on the list.

One of the biggest problems we had at St kKilda in the Richo years was that Cho and his staff got these aspects wrong more often than not

I reckon Ratten will not get it it wrong as often and in fact, I'm bullish and optimistic that we won't have guys like Lewis Pierce sitting on the books for as many years as we did under Cho

[B.M]

So he was lucky when he played well?

I know it’s hard for someone to give him credit, when they are biased against him for whatever reason?!

I’m just dealing with the facts

He’s played well in most of his last 20 games in a difficult position... even dominated some games.

[saintbob]

Webster Howard Battle

Coffield Carlisle Clarke

Hill Jones Billings

Gresham Membrey Long

Ryder King Butler

Marshall Steele Hannebery


Int.
Ross, Dunstan, Wilkie, Hind

Emerg.
Paton, Langlands, Geary, Parker, Brown


I’ve got a feeling we may need a new captain, as I can’t see Geary being in the best 22.

[ace]

Why is our #1 ruckman, and RU best and fairest not playing in the ruck?

He will interchange with Ryder in the forward line instead of our ruckman taking a rest on the bench.
Whoever is the forward at the time will take the forward rucking contests.
The ruckman will sit back waiting for the opposition to scramble a kick directly to him.
Scrambled because of the pressure applied by our small forwards.
A lighter workload for both ruckmen/forwards.

[ace]

If Lonie were indigenous he would get a lot more love.
He regularly outperforms Long when they are both in the team.
Because he knows his limitations.
He frequently slips his inattentive opponent taking uncontested marks but then
He consistently gets in front of the pack at marking contests to crumb and chases harder than any others.
His kicking is weak, so is his handball, even his tackles often get broken but they apply pressure.

Meanwhile Long imagines himself as Cyril Rioli trying to take speckies but failing to get the mark and then he is not in position to crumb.
Long's tackles are stronger and more aggressive but they are less frequent.
No wonder he has been tried further back where ego can't be indulged.

[ace]

Maybe the immediate question for the retained is how do we organize a farewell/farewells for the dearly traded/recently beloved. We don't just trade and abandon do we: "leave your locker key at reception" (?) The chaps on pending extensions and one year-to-go contracts need reassuring hugs and J. Newnes a nice card about how to be grateful for little things. At the function BR can say who is in the running for CHF to help out super coaches - Battle has to be back in the frame with all of Austin, Howard and Carslisle available doesn't he; but maybe not.

Most of the players are overseas living it up on holidays.
A few may be still around and like Blake Acres in the gym when told be on a plane to Perth in the morning, expect to be a Docker by afternoon.
The club is a lonely place with little love at this time of year.

When training resumes those that survived can hold a celebration that they live for one more year, and a funeral for the dearly departed.
No flowers but donations will be accepted.
The hardest is the loss of income, they are unemployed, with not much in the way of skills, and the realisation that for most their pay cheque once they find work will be one tenth.
If only they had lived on a fraction and saved.
Wives will struggle to reduce their expenditures placing stress on marriages.
And then when they wake up in the morning they realise they have a body broken well before its time.

[minneapolis]

Maybe the immediate question for the retained is how do we organize a farewell/farewells for the dearly traded/recently beloved. We don't just trade and abandon do we: "leave your locker key at reception" (?) The chaps on pending extensions and one year-to-go contracts need reassuring hugs and J. Newnes a nice card about how to be grateful for little things. At the function BR can say who is in the running for CHF to help out super coaches - Battle has to be back in the frame with all of Austin, Howard and Carslisle available doesn't he; but maybe not.

Most of the players are overseas living it up on holidays.
A few may be still around and like Blake Acres in the gym when told be on a plane to Perth in the morning, expect to be a Docker by afternoon.
The club is a lonely place with little love at this time of year.

When training resumes those that survived can hold a celebration that they live for one more year, and a funeral for the dearly departed.
No flowers but donations will be accepted.
The hardest is the loss of income, they are unemployed, with not much in the way of skills, and the realisation that for most their pay cheque once they find work will be one tenth.
If only they had lived on a fraction and saved.
Wives will struggle to reduce their expenditures placing stress on marriages.
And then when they wake up in the morning they realise they have a body broken well before its time.

That's either a song, a poem, or a TV movie script.

[goods]

Lonie will have to play well to hold his spot, but on current form is ahead of all other small forwards (Gresham aside, who is a mid/fwd)

My order on last years output would be
Lonie, Kent, Hind, Parker, Long, Butler, Young
With Gresham rotating

That order could easily change with form

Billings and Gresham rotating.

Long > > > Parker > Hind > Butler >>>>>>>>>> Lonie, Young, Kent.

Ben Long will be an absolute star.

Potentially elite.

Definitely not enough love on here for him at this stage.

I think anyone who has Lonie ahead of Long is channeling Forest Gump!

HEY HEY!!!!!
Wait a minute... I'm a massive B Long fan, and have argued giving him captaincy would improve his consistency and bring the whole club a bit of the so-called X-factor and some grit.

Bearing in mind.... I get caned whenever I point out how f88kin' good that kid will be as a footballer. I'd have him on a wing: Hill on one wing, Long or Clark on the other.

I rate long bit time.

[barneyboyz]

Hmm?...

Lonie gets a tough deal on here... for whatever reason?

Plays the worst position on the ground to be consistent. Plays extremely well, still can’t get any credit.

Will guarantee you this
If not injured in R1 he will play seniors.

In his second year he couldn't hold a tackle, bounced off blokes and generally looked too small.

But, he went away and worked on these things (to his credit) and through pure determination has become a pretty good player

We gots to have us a 'whipping boy' (or two). Jason Blake was one such player and he turned out alright

[Jacks Back]

I rate long bit time.

Yes he does only play bit parts and goes out of games for too long.

[saintspremiers]

Kent is a deadset list clogger. Very lucky not to be delisted IMO

[diddley]

K*nt is a deadset list clogger. Very lucky not to be delisted IMO

Unlike Young, his contract would be far more substantial than a recent draftee on the initial 2 year contract, therefore we would be more unwilling to pay his final 2 years of the contract out just to gain a list spot.
I’m sure the club doesn’t see it that way anyway. I can guarantee that if the injury issues he had in the second half of 2019 are sorted out, he will get game time in the seniors in 2020.

[Secret Kiel]

One of the most important aspects of a head coach's role imo, is to identify asap which players are worth recruiting and which players are worth keeping on the list.

One of the biggest problems we had at St kKilda in the Richo years was that Cho and his staff got these aspects wrong more often than not

I reckon Ratten will not get it it wrong as often and in fact, I'm bullish and optimistic that we won't have guys like Lewis Pierce sitting on the books for as many years as we did under Cho

How many players currently on the list are the ones Richo and his staff got right?

[Joffa Burns]

K*nt is a deadset list clogger. Very lucky not to be delisted IMO

He got a 3 year contract so he’s not going anywhere.
We were that desperate last year to bring in players we gave this guy three years!