2019 Leadership Group Announced

[Crossy66]

Geary wins again by default. Disappointing. I’d rather the club take a chance and show some daring by choosing a younger more skilful player everyone can get behind.

So you think they are all not behind geary?

???

I read that as a personal opinion. How did you read it to mean he’s talking about people from inside the club.

No question, you're right, its a personal opinion. I assumed hes talking about people inside the club because thats all that's relevant.
Whether or not nuffies on a fan forum think differently is irrelevant if that's what was referred to.

Did you just refer to me as a ‘nuffie’? How does that fly under our new dictatorship...?

Back on topic though, I think there could be a number of reasons why Geary, the safe option, is chosen, and why a younger player with ambitions would be hesitant to put their hand up.

Geary tries hard and obviously loves the club, but his skills are poor at best and he does zero damage to the opposition. Out of the 18 captains in the league he would easily be the worst player, and possible the worst in recent memory.

Lastly, I think having the captaincy or not won’t change how Geary plays or his effectiveness, but the added responsibilities might just help propel a young player to new heights.

Agreed on all of the above, with my addition that Geary is a liability.
All the effort is destroyed by the Basil Fawlty-esque things he does continually.
I shake my head several times each game at him.
And don't give me the old cliche that he's under pressure, his backmen don't support well, etc etc.

Oppo forwards are instructed to let him roam free at a kick-in, because there's very short odds on him doing something silly.
He is our worst player to ever get a regular game since Tim Elliott.
'The coaching staff respect him, they're professionals, they're experts, blah blah'

Lets see their record-

- move to Seaford
- signing Richo after 33% wins
- picking Mav every game then delisting
- using Pick 1 on a guy with known health issues and believing stubbornly that it's gonna be manageable

Need I go on?

Nah, don't go on, unless it's to officially at the next stop to finally get off!!!!!

Easy to point out the negatives, too many positives to post, so won't start a disagreement, against the rules!!!!!

If you're a former ruckman from the Saints, you'd agree that Tim Elliott was as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike.
That's how I see Geary.
My opinion.
I'm a realist, not a blind-to-the-obvious fanboi

That's your opinion, which is is just that, your opinion, not shared by the by the current ' Real St.Klda Opinions' that really matter, your entitled to that as a another supporter!!!!!

Good for you!!!!!

Your Opinion is noted, for whatever that means at the end of the day!!!!!

Opinions and facts are different. Opinions dont have to be based on reason, logic or even commonsense. This thread about Geary being a good example
Facts are:
2013- finished 4th in b&F ahead of names like hayes , dalsanto, dempster etc.
2015 5th ahead of reiwoldt
2016 - runner up
2017 - 3rd
2018 5th.
Hardly a liability.
Is he a good leader?
Ask the people he leads, that is the essence of leadership. Playing group rate him highly and he gets thier vote.- enough said.
For a bloke taken at 58 in the draft, he has got the absolute best out of himself and has earnt some respect

[Joffa Burns]

Great LG. Seb Ross will be our next skipper.

Great leadership group, based on what?
Performance in big games, finals, leadership under adversity last season?

[The_Dud]

Geary wins again by default. Disappointing. I’d rather the club take a chance and show some daring by choosing a younger more skilful player everyone can get behind.

So you think they are all not behind geary?

???

I read that as a personal opinion. How did you read it to mean he’s talking about people from inside the club.

No question, you're right, its a personal opinion. I assumed hes talking about people inside the club because thats all that's relevant.
Whether or not nuffies on a fan forum think differently is irrelevant if that's what was referred to.

Did you just refer to me as a ‘nuffie’? How does that fly under our new dictatorship...?

Back on topic though, I think there could be a number of reasons why Geary, the safe option, is chosen, and why a younger player with ambitions would be hesitant to put their hand up.

Geary tries hard and obviously loves the club, but his skills are poor at best and he does zero damage to the opposition. Out of the 18 captains in the league he would easily be the worst player, and possible the worst in recent memory.

Lastly, I think having the captaincy or not won’t change how Geary plays or his effectiveness, but the added responsibilities might just help propel a young player to new heights.

Agreed on all of the above, with my addition that Geary is a liability.
All the effort is destroyed by the Basil Fawlty-esque things he does continually.
I shake my head several times each game at him.
And don't give me the old cliche that he's under pressure, his backmen don't support well, etc etc.

Oppo forwards are instructed to let him roam free at a kick-in, because there's very short odds on him doing something silly.
He is our worst player to ever get a regular game since Tim Elliott.
'The coaching staff respect him, they're professionals, they're experts, blah blah'

Lets see their record-

- move to Seaford
- signing Richo after 33% wins
- picking Mav every game then delisting
- using Pick 1 on a guy with known health issues and believing stubbornly that it's gonna be manageable

Need I go on?

Nah, don't go on, unless it's to officially at the next stop to finally get off!!!!!

Easy to point out the negatives, too many positives to post, so won't start a disagreement, against the rules!!!!!

If you're a former ruckman from the Saints, you'd agree that Tim Elliott was as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike.
That's how I see Geary.
My opinion.
I'm a realist, not a blind-to-the-obvious fanboi

That's your opinion, which is is just that, your opinion, not shared by the by the current ' Real St.Klda Opinions' that really matter, your entitled to that as a another supporter!!!!!

Good for you!!!!!

Your Opinion is noted, for whatever that means at the end of the day!!!!!

Opinions and facts are different. Opinions dont have to be based on reason, logic or even commonsense. This thread about Geary being a good example
Facts are:
2013- finished 4th in b&F ahead of names like hayes , dalsanto, dempster etc.
2015 5th ahead of reiwoldt
2016 - runner up
2017 - 3rd
2018 5th.
Hardly a liability.
Is he a good leader?
Ask the people he leads, that is the essence of leadership. Playing group rate him highly and he gets thier vote.- enough said.
For a bloke taken at 58 in the draft, he has got the absolute best out of himself and has earnt some respect

Other facts are that he has scored a grand total of 2 Brownlow votes in his entire career and has a SuperCoach average of 66.1, which is purely based on stats, no opinions.

The club b&f is voted on by our coaches, who aren’t much chop (that’s why most just got fired), and rewards playing games over anything, as every player gets votes each game.

[Crossy66]

Geary wins again by default. Disappointing. I’d rather the club take a chance and show some daring by choosing a younger more skilful player everyone can get behind.

So you think they are all not behind geary?

???

I read that as a personal opinion. How did you read it to mean he’s talking about people from inside the club.

No question, you're right, its a personal opinion. I assumed hes talking about people inside the club because thats all that's relevant.
Whether or not nuffies on a fan forum think differently is irrelevant if that's what was referred to.

Did you just refer to me as a ‘nuffie’? How does that fly under our new dictatorship...?

Back on topic though, I think there could be a number of reasons why Geary, the safe option, is chosen, and why a younger player with ambitions would be hesitant to put their hand up.

Geary tries hard and obviously loves the club, but his skills are poor at best and he does zero damage to the opposition. Out of the 18 captains in the league he would easily be the worst player, and possible the worst in recent memory.

Lastly, I think having the captaincy or not won’t change how Geary plays or his effectiveness, but the added responsibilities might just help propel a young player to new heights.

Agreed on all of the above, with my addition that Geary is a liability.
All the effort is destroyed by the Basil Fawlty-esque things he does continually.
I shake my head several times each game at him.
And don't give me the old cliche that he's under pressure, his backmen don't support well, etc etc.

Oppo forwards are instructed to let him roam free at a kick-in, because there's very short odds on him doing something silly.
He is our worst player to ever get a regular game since Tim Elliott.
'The coaching staff respect him, they're professionals, they're experts, blah blah'

Lets see their record-

- move to Seaford
- signing Richo after 33% wins
- picking Mav every game then delisting
- using Pick 1 on a guy with known health issues and believing stubbornly that it's gonna be manageable

Need I go on?

Nah, don't go on, unless it's to officially at the next stop to finally get off!!!!!

Easy to point out the negatives, too many positives to post, so won't start a disagreement, against the rules!!!!!

If you're a former ruckman from the Saints, you'd agree that Tim Elliott was as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike.
That's how I see Geary.
My opinion.
I'm a realist, not a blind-to-the-obvious fanboi

That's your opinion, which is is just that, your opinion, not shared by the by the current ' Real St.Klda Opinions' that really matter, your entitled to that as a another supporter!!!!!

Good for you!!!!!

Your Opinion is noted, for whatever that means at the end of the day!!!!!

Opinions and facts are different. Opinions dont have to be based on reason, logic or even commonsense. This thread about Geary being a good example
Facts are:
2013- finished 4th in b&F ahead of names like hayes , dalsanto, dempster etc.
2015 5th ahead of reiwoldt
2016 - runner up
2017 - 3rd
2018 5th.
Hardly a liability.
Is he a good leader?
Ask the people he leads, that is the essence of leadership. Playing group rate him highly and he gets thier vote.- enough said.
For a bloke taken at 58 in the draft, he has got the absolute best out of himself and has earnt some respect

Other facts are that he has scored a grand total of 2 Brownlow votes in his entire career and has a SuperCoach average of 66.1, which is purely based on stats, no opinions.

The club b&f is voted on by our coaches, who aren’t much chop (that’s why most just got fired), and rewards playing games over anything, as every player gets votes each game.

supercoach you say? Is that where you get points for possessions? Fair enough, its not what i would consider the bible for defenders, but each to their own.

Brownlow votes? For lockdown defenders? voted on by umpires? Fair enough,

Dont like a system where 5 coaches vote on players and take in more than just stats?
I understand your opinion a little better now i know the facts by which you base it on.

[Crossy66]

Geary wins again by default. Disappointing. I’d rather the club take a chance and show some daring by choosing a younger more skilful player everyone can get behind.

So you think they are all not behind geary?

???

I read that as a personal opinion. How did you read it to mean he’s talking about people from inside the club.

No question, you're right, its a personal opinion. I assumed hes talking about people inside the club because thats all that's relevant.
Whether or not nuffies on a fan forum think differently is irrelevant if that's what was referred to.

Did you just refer to me as a ‘nuffie’? How does that fly under our new dictatorship...?

Back on topic though, I think there could be a number of reasons why Geary, the safe option, is chosen, and why a younger player with ambitions would be hesitant to put their hand up.

Geary tries hard and obviously loves the club, but his skills are poor at best and he does zero damage to the opposition. Out of the 18 captains in the league he would easily be the worst player, and possible the worst in recent memory.

Lastly, I think having the captaincy or not won’t change how Geary plays or his effectiveness, but the added responsibilities might just help propel a young player to new heights.

Agreed on all of the above, with my addition that Geary is a liability.
All the effort is destroyed by the Basil Fawlty-esque things he does continually.
I shake my head several times each game at him.
And don't give me the old cliche that he's under pressure, his backmen don't support well, etc etc.

Oppo forwards are instructed to let him roam free at a kick-in, because there's very short odds on him doing something silly.
He is our worst player to ever get a regular game since Tim Elliott.
'The coaching staff respect him, they're professionals, they're experts, blah blah'

Lets see their record-

- move to Seaford
- signing Richo after 33% wins
- picking Mav every game then delisting
- using Pick 1 on a guy with known health issues and believing stubbornly that it's gonna be manageable

Need I go on?

Nah, don't go on, unless it's to officially at the next stop to finally get off!!!!!

Easy to point out the negatives, too many positives to post, so won't start a disagreement, against the rules!!!!!

If you're a former ruckman from the Saints, you'd agree that Tim Elliott was as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike.
That's how I see Geary.
My opinion.
I'm a realist, not a blind-to-the-obvious fanboi

That's your opinion, which is is just that, your opinion, not shared by the by the current ' Real St.Klda Opinions' that really matter, your entitled to that as a another supporter!!!!!

Good for you!!!!!

Your Opinion is noted, for whatever that means at the end of the day!!!!!

Opinions and facts are different. Opinions dont have to be based on reason, logic or even commonsense. This thread about Geary being a good example
Facts are:
2013- finished 4th in b&F ahead of names like hayes , dalsanto, dempster etc.
2015 5th ahead of reiwoldt
2016 - runner up
2017 - 3rd
2018 5th.
Hardly a liability.
Is he a good leader?
Ask the people he leads, that is the essence of leadership. Playing group rate him highly and he gets thier vote.- enough said.
For a bloke taken at 58 in the draft, he has got the absolute best out of himself and has earnt some respect

Other facts are that he has scored a grand total of 2 Brownlow votes in his entire career and has a SuperCoach average of 66.1, which is purely based on stats, no opinions.

The club b&f is voted on by our coaches, who aren’t much chop (that’s why most just got fired), and rewards playing games over anything, as every player gets votes each game.

supercoach you say? Is that where you get points for possessions? Fair enough, its not what i would consider the bible for defenders, but each to their own.

Brownlow votes? For lockdown defenders? voted on by umpires? Fair enough,
Did you know that Alex Rance, 5 times all australian including 2018 and his team mate Dylan Grimes also AA last year received zero votes from the umpires!
In fact Grimes has never received a brownlow vote. Its called the midfielders medal for good reason.

Dont like a system where 5 coaches vote on players and take in more than just stats?
I understand your opinion a little better now i know the facts by which you base it on.

[The_Dud]

Geary wins again by default. Disappointing. I’d rather the club take a chance and show some daring by choosing a younger more skilful player everyone can get behind.

So you think they are all not behind geary?

???

I read that as a personal opinion. How did you read it to mean he’s talking about people from inside the club.

No question, you're right, its a personal opinion. I assumed hes talking about people inside the club because thats all that's relevant.
Whether or not nuffies on a fan forum think differently is irrelevant if that's what was referred to.

Did you just refer to me as a ‘nuffie’? How does that fly under our new dictatorship...?

Back on topic though, I think there could be a number of reasons why Geary, the safe option, is chosen, and why a younger player with ambitions would be hesitant to put their hand up.

Geary tries hard and obviously loves the club, but his skills are poor at best and he does zero damage to the opposition. Out of the 18 captains in the league he would easily be the worst player, and possible the worst in recent memory.

Lastly, I think having the captaincy or not won’t change how Geary plays or his effectiveness, but the added responsibilities might just help propel a young player to new heights.

Agreed on all of the above, with my addition that Geary is a liability.
All the effort is destroyed by the Basil Fawlty-esque things he does continually.
I shake my head several times each game at him.
And don't give me the old cliche that he's under pressure, his backmen don't support well, etc etc.

Oppo forwards are instructed to let him roam free at a kick-in, because there's very short odds on him doing something silly.
He is our worst player to ever get a regular game since Tim Elliott.
'The coaching staff respect him, they're professionals, they're experts, blah blah'

Lets see their record-

- move to Seaford
- signing Richo after 33% wins
- picking Mav every game then delisting
- using Pick 1 on a guy with known health issues and believing stubbornly that it's gonna be manageable

Need I go on?

Nah, don't go on, unless it's to officially at the next stop to finally get off!!!!!

Easy to point out the negatives, too many positives to post, so won't start a disagreement, against the rules!!!!!

If you're a former ruckman from the Saints, you'd agree that Tim Elliott was as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike.
That's how I see Geary.
My opinion.
I'm a realist, not a blind-to-the-obvious fanboi

That's your opinion, which is is just that, your opinion, not shared by the by the current ' Real St.Klda Opinions' that really matter, your entitled to that as a another supporter!!!!!

Good for you!!!!!

Your Opinion is noted, for whatever that means at the end of the day!!!!!

Opinions and facts are different. Opinions dont have to be based on reason, logic or even commonsense. This thread about Geary being a good example
Facts are:
2013- finished 4th in b&F ahead of names like hayes , dalsanto, dempster etc.
2015 5th ahead of reiwoldt
2016 - runner up
2017 - 3rd
2018 5th.
Hardly a liability.
Is he a good leader?
Ask the people he leads, that is the essence of leadership. Playing group rate him highly and he gets thier vote.- enough said.
For a bloke taken at 58 in the draft, he has got the absolute best out of himself and has earnt some respect

Other facts are that he has scored a grand total of 2 Brownlow votes in his entire career and has a SuperCoach average of 66.1, which is purely based on stats, no opinions.

The club b&f is voted on by our coaches, who aren’t much chop (that’s why most just got fired), and rewards playing games over anything, as every player gets votes each game.

supercoach you say? Is that where you get points for possessions? Fair enough, its not what i would consider the bible for defenders, but each to their own.

Brownlow votes? For lockdown defenders? voted on by umpires? Fair enough,

Dont like a system where 5 coaches vote on players and take in more than just stats?
I understand your opinion a little better now i know the facts by which you base it on.

My opinion comes from watching him play.

How many other teams even have a debate amongst fans whether their captain should be getting a game?

Name another current captain who Geary is a better player than. Name one from the last 10 years.

I’m not doubting his leadership ability or heart, but that wouldn’t change whether he had or didn’t have the captaincy.

Give it to a young bloke who is the future of our club and take a chance at starting something great.

[Crossy66]

Geary wins again by default. Disappointing. I’d rather the club take a chance and show some daring by choosing a younger more skilful player everyone can get behind.

So you think they are all not behind geary?

???

I read that as a personal opinion. How did you read it to mean he’s talking about people from inside the club.

No question, you're right, its a personal opinion. I assumed hes talking about people inside the club because thats all that's relevant.
Whether or not nuffies on a fan forum think differently is irrelevant if that's what was referred to.

Did you just refer to me as a ‘nuffie’? How does that fly under our new dictatorship...?

Back on topic though, I think there could be a number of reasons why Geary, the safe option, is chosen, and why a younger player with ambitions would be hesitant to put their hand up.

Geary tries hard and obviously loves the club, but his skills are poor at best and he does zero damage to the opposition. Out of the 18 captains in the league he would easily be the worst player, and possible the worst in recent memory.

Lastly, I think having the captaincy or not won’t change how Geary plays or his effectiveness, but the added responsibilities might just help propel a young player to new heights.

Agreed on all of the above, with my addition that Geary is a liability.
All the effort is destroyed by the Basil Fawlty-esque things he does continually.
I shake my head several times each game at him.
And don't give me the old cliche that he's under pressure, his backmen don't support well, etc etc.

Oppo forwards are instructed to let him roam free at a kick-in, because there's very short odds on him doing something silly.
He is our worst player to ever get a regular game since Tim Elliott.
'The coaching staff respect him, they're professionals, they're experts, blah blah'

Lets see their record-

- move to Seaford
- signing Richo after 33% wins
- picking Mav every game then delisting
- using Pick 1 on a guy with known health issues and believing stubbornly that it's gonna be manageable

Need I go on?

Nah, don't go on, unless it's to officially at the next stop to finally get off!!!!!

Easy to point out the negatives, too many positives to post, so won't start a disagreement, against the rules!!!!!

If you're a former ruckman from the Saints, you'd agree that Tim Elliott was as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike.
That's how I see Geary.
My opinion.
I'm a realist, not a blind-to-the-obvious fanboi

That's your opinion, which is is just that, your opinion, not shared by the by the current ' Real St.Klda Opinions' that really matter, your entitled to that as a another supporter!!!!!

Good for you!!!!!

Your Opinion is noted, for whatever that means at the end of the day!!!!!

Opinions and facts are different. Opinions dont have to be based on reason, logic or even commonsense. This thread about Geary being a good example
Facts are:
2013- finished 4th in b&F ahead of names like hayes , dalsanto, dempster etc.
2015 5th ahead of reiwoldt
2016 - runner up
2017 - 3rd
2018 5th.
Hardly a liability.
Is he a good leader?
Ask the people he leads, that is the essence of leadership. Playing group rate him highly and he gets thier vote.- enough said.
For a bloke taken at 58 in the draft, he has got the absolute best out of himself and has earnt some respect

Other facts are that he has scored a grand total of 2 Brownlow votes in his entire career and has a SuperCoach average of 66.1, which is purely based on stats, no opinions.

The club b&f is voted on by our coaches, who aren’t much chop (that’s why most just got fired), and rewards playing games over anything, as every player gets votes each game.

supercoach you say? Is that where you get points for possessions? Fair enough, its not what i would consider the bible for defenders, but each to their own.

Brownlow votes? For lockdown defenders? voted on by umpires? Fair enough,

Dont like a system where 5 coaches vote on players and take in more than just stats?
I understand your opinion a little better now i know the facts by which you base it on.

(My opinion comes from watching him play.)
YPerhaps you're missing something when watching a match

(How many other teams even have a debate amongst fans whether their captain should be getting a game?)
Seriously? Should we get the SS forum posters to pick the team? We have a bloke thats finished top five in the B&F 5 out of last 6 years, plays his heart out for the club getting bagged by a minority of his own supporters . I gree with you, hard to fathom really

(Name another current captain who Geary is a better player than. Name one from the last 10 years. )
A couple to get started, Marc Murphy, Taylor walker, Nick Maxwell at a minimum

(I’m not doubting his leadership ability or heart, but that wouldn’t change whether he had or didn’t have the captaincy.)
[b]100%. He plays for the team and best exemplifies what a leader should be[/b]

(Give it to a young bloke who is the future of our club and take a chance at starting something great.)

[b]100% - One of them will have to put up their hand, not have it given to them on a platter. Based on last year, there aint a lot of choices. I suspect Geary would love to see someone step up this year or would you rather they give it to someone that hasnt earned it[/b]

[Joffa Burns]

I admire the heart and passion Geary plays with, but to suggest he is a better footballer than Murphy or Walker is laughable.

I think the Maxwell comparison as a player is quite a good one, both tough heart and sole leaders but not skilled or A grade footballers.

[Crossy66]

I admire the heart and passion Geary plays with, but to suggest he is a better footballer than Murphy or Walker is laughable.

I think the Maxwell comparison as a player is quite a good one, both tough heart and sole leaders but not skilled or A grade footballers.

just cant stand murphy or walker.

but the thread was about geary. i challenged the view that he is not best 22 orshouldnt be captain.

[tedtheodorelogan2018]

Gears is in our best 18. No doubt about that.
Tough. Relentless. Gut runner. Leader.

[Crossy66]

Gears is in our best 18. No doubt about that.
Tough. Relentless. Gut runner. Leader.

Thats me point. Finished 5th , 3rd and second in our last 3 b&f's and his teamates love playing under him.
Would be one of the first few picked.

[The_Dud]

I admire the heart and passion Geary plays with, but to suggest he is a better footballer than Murphy or Walker is laughable.

I think the Maxwell comparison as a player is quite a good one, both tough heart and sole leaders but not skilled or A grade footballers.

Maxwell wasn’t a star, but he was a premiership captain and All Australian. Geary claim to fame is a few top 5 finishes in injury depleted and bottom 8 teams.

If he is in fact one of the first picked, that just indicates the weakness of our list and is very worrying. He would struggle to get into most other teams best 22.

Now I’m not saying he’s not a good bloke, or doesn’t try hard, or doesn’t love the club, or doesn’t have good leadership skills. But his football skills are ordinary, you could pull Roo off the couch right now and he would contribute more than Geary, and that’s a worry.

[Crossy66]

I admire the heart and passion Geary plays with, but to suggest he is a better footballer than Murphy or Walker is laughable.

I think the Maxwell comparison as a player is quite a good one, both tough heart and sole leaders but not skilled or A grade footballers.

Maxwell wasn’t a star, but he was a premiership captain and All Australian. Geary claim to fame is a few top 5 finishes in injury depleted and bottom 8 teams.

If he is in fact one of the first picked, that just indicates the weakness of our list and is very worrying. He would struggle to get into most other teams best 22.

Now I’m not saying he’s not a good bloke, or doesn’t try hard, or doesn’t love the club, or doesn’t have good leadership skills. But his football skills are ordinary, you could pull Roo off the couch right now and he would contribute more than Geary, and that’s a worry.

More nonsense. Geary hasnt finished outside our top 6 in the last 7 years including a 2nd, 3rd and fifth in the last 3 . Have a look at the other top ten finishers in 2012, a year we finished 9th. I dont care that you love Nick Maxwell or whether you think he would get a game in some other team, Or where StKilda finishes on the ladder - Its relevant for the purposes of picking a leader . The discussion was around whether he should be captain and whether or not he is best 22 at STKILDA. How he compares to anyone else in another team has nothing to do with the discussion.
Earlier you said he was no good because he didnt get enough brownlow votes or supercoach fantasy points - that says enough about how you formulate opinions.
BTW, Dylan Grimes made the 2018 AA squad, got Zero Brownlow votes and averaged 61 fantasy points (Geary averaged 79). Rance was 2018 AA fullback with Zero brownlow votes and only averaged 3 more fantasy points than Geary. Grimes has never voted in a Brownlow (Gears has 2).
Brownlow or fantasy points have no place in assessing defenders, its a midfielders award, decided by umpires who are focussed on umpiring.

The question is : Is he in Stkildas best 22? - Clearly over 7 years he is
Do the players and coached rate him as a leader? - Clearly they voted for him.

Out of curiosity, who did you wish had got the job as Captain?

[tedtheodorelogan2018]

I admire the heart and passion Geary plays with, but to suggest he is a better footballer than Murphy or Walker is laughable.

I think the Maxwell comparison as a player is quite a good one, both tough heart and sole leaders but not skilled or A grade footballers.

Maxwell wasn’t a star, but he was a premiership captain and All Australian. Geary claim to fame is a few top 5 finishes in injury depleted and bottom 8 teams.

If he is in fact one of the first picked, that just indicates the weakness of our list and is very worrying. He would struggle to get into most other teams best 22.

Now I’m not saying he’s not a good bloke, or doesn’t try hard, or doesn’t love the club, or doesn’t have good leadership skills. But his football skills are ordinary, you could pull Roo off the couch right now and he would contribute more than Geary, and that’s a worry.

More nonsense. Geary hasnt finished outside our top 6 in the last 7 years including a 2nd, 3rd and fifth in the last 3 . Have a look at the other top ten finishers in 2012, a year we finished 9th. I dont care that you love Nick Maxwell or whether you think he would get a game in some other team, Or where StKilda finishes on the ladder - Its relevant for the purposes of picking a leader . The discussion was around whether he should be captain and whether or not he is best 22 at STKILDA. How he compares to anyone else in another team has nothing to do with the discussion.
Earlier you said he was no good because he didnt get enough brownlow votes or supercoach fantasy points - that says enough about how you formulate opinions.
BTW, Dylan Grimes made the 2018 AA squad, got Zero Brownlow votes and averaged 61 fantasy points (Geary averaged 79). Rance was 2018 AA fullback with Zero brownlow votes and only averaged 3 more fantasy points than Geary. Grimes has never voted in a Brownlow (Gears has 2).
Brownlow or fantasy points have no place in assessing defenders, its a midfielders award, decided by umpires who are focussed on umpiring.

The question is : Is he in Stkildas best 22? - Clearly over 7 years he is
Do the players and coached rate him as a leader? - Clearly they voted for him.

Out of curiosity, who did you wish had got the job as Captain?

Top post there Crossy with good facts and arguments.

[Joffa Burns]

So Geary skipper again, Hanner's in leadership group and Hickey gone!!!!!

Lot of football experts on this forum, NOT!!!!!

Lot of Armchair experts, some should just stay quiet supporters really!!!!!

Bring on 2019!!!!!

I may be mistaken stonecold but other than your good self I don’t believe most posters consider themselves experts, more so supporters who come on this site to write and read opinions.

The nature of a forum to my understanding is for people to post their thoughts and read others input.

To constantly read your response bemoaning armchair experts who are not up to your exalted football knowledge status therefore should refrain from posting is becoming quite tiresome.

1 DAY BAN ISSUED: Any post that negatively relates to or references, or baits (directly or indirectly) another poster, or posters, or group of posters in the Saintsational Fan Forum will be deemed a breach of rules and the penalty will be either a 1 DAY BAN or 1 WEEK BAN.

[The_Dud]

I admire the heart and passion Geary plays with, but to suggest he is a better footballer than Murphy or Walker is laughable.

I think the Maxwell comparison as a player is quite a good one, both tough heart and sole leaders but not skilled or A grade footballers.

Maxwell wasn’t a star, but he was a premiership captain and All Australian. Geary claim to fame is a few top 5 finishes in injury depleted and bottom 8 teams.

If he is in fact one of the first picked, that just indicates the weakness of our list and is very worrying. He would struggle to get into most other teams best 22.

Now I’m not saying he’s not a good bloke, or doesn’t try hard, or doesn’t love the club, or doesn’t have good leadership skills. But his football skills are ordinary, you could pull Roo off the couch right now and he would contribute more than Geary, and that’s a worry.

More nonsense. Geary hasnt finished outside our top 6 in the last 7 years including a 2nd, 3rd and fifth in the last 3 . Have a look at the other top ten finishers in 2012, a year we finished 9th. I dont care that you love Nick Maxwell or whether you think he would get a game in some other team, Or where StKilda finishes on the ladder - Its relevant for the purposes of picking a leader . The discussion was around whether he should be captain and whether or not he is best 22 at STKILDA. How he compares to anyone else in another team has nothing to do with the discussion.
Earlier you said he was no good because he didnt get enough brownlow votes or supercoach fantasy points - that says enough about how you formulate opinions.
BTW, Dylan Grimes made the 2018 AA squad, got Zero Brownlow votes and averaged 61 fantasy points (Geary averaged 79). Rance was 2018 AA fullback with Zero brownlow votes and only averaged 3 more fantasy points than Geary. Grimes has never voted in a Brownlow (Gears has 2).
Brownlow or fantasy points have no place in assessing defenders, its a midfielders award, decided by umpires who are focussed on umpiring.

The question is : Is he in Stkildas best 22? - Clearly over 7 years he is
Do the players and coached rate him as a leader? - Clearly they voted for him.

Out of curiosity, who did you wish had got the job as Captain?

Slow down there champ, I said I don’t think he’s good enough from watching him play. You tried to justify his worth with B&F placings so I responded with Brownlow and SuperCoach stats. I didn’t bring that stuff up.

And I’m not talking about how good he was in 2012, I’m talking about now. If he produces the same output as last year then I think we’re in trouble.

And again, I’m not questioning his leadership, I’m questioning his football ability. I believe a captain should be able to lead from the front and grab the game by the scruff of the neck.

Who would I choose? Probably Seb. I would have liked to see more from Steele or Steven, but it seems the latter isn’t interested in being a leader. Dan H if he has a good year, or even Robbo, but he’s obviously just coming back from injury. And in the future, maybe Acres, I still think he’ll be our best player in the not too distant future.

[Crossy66]

I admire the heart and passion Geary plays with, but to suggest he is a better footballer than Murphy or Walker is laughable.

I think the Maxwell comparison as a player is quite a good one, both tough heart and sole leaders but not skilled or A grade footballers.

Maxwell wasn’t a star, but he was a premiership captain and All Australian. Geary claim to fame is a few top 5 finishes in injury depleted and bottom 8 teams.

If he is in fact one of the first picked, that just indicates the weakness of our list and is very worrying. He would struggle to get into most other teams best 22.

Now I’m not saying he’s not a good bloke, or doesn’t try hard, or doesn’t love the club, or doesn’t have good leadership skills. But his football skills are ordinary, you could pull Roo off the couch right now and he would contribute more than Geary, and that’s a worry.

More nonsense. Geary hasnt finished outside our top 6 in the last 7 years including a 2nd, 3rd and fifth in the last 3 . Have a look at the other top ten finishers in 2012, a year we finished 9th. I dont care that you love Nick Maxwell or whether you think he would get a game in some other team, Or where StKilda finishes on the ladder - Its relevant for the purposes of picking a leader . The discussion was around whether he should be captain and whether or not he is best 22 at STKILDA. How he compares to anyone else in another team has nothing to do with the discussion.
Earlier you said he was no good because he didnt get enough brownlow votes or supercoach fantasy points - that says enough about how you formulate opinions.
BTW, Dylan Grimes made the 2018 AA squad, got Zero Brownlow votes and averaged 61 fantasy points (Geary averaged 79). Rance was 2018 AA fullback with Zero brownlow votes and only averaged 3 more fantasy points than Geary. Grimes has never voted in a Brownlow (Gears has 2).
Brownlow or fantasy points have no place in assessing defenders, its a midfielders award, decided by umpires who are focussed on umpiring.

The question is : Is he in Stkildas best 22? - Clearly over 7 years he is
Do the players and coached rate him as a leader? - Clearly they voted for him.

Out of curiosity, who did you wish had got the job as Captain?

Slow down there champ, I said I don’t think he’s good enough from watching him play. You tried to justify his worth with B&F placings so I responded with Brownlow and SuperCoach stats. I didn’t bring that stuff up.

And I’m not talking about how good he was in 2012, I’m talking about now. If he produces the same output as last year then I think we’re in trouble.

And again, I’m not questioning his leadership, I’m questioning his football ability. I believe a captain should be able to lead from the front and grab the game by the scruff of the neck.

Who would I choose? Probably Seb. I would have liked to see more from Steele or Steven, but it seems the latter isn’t interested in being a leader. Dan H if he has a good year, or even Robbo, but he’s obviously just coming back from injury. And in the future, maybe Acres, I still think he’ll be our best player in the not too distant future.

You say YOU dont think he is good enough from watching him play . I reckon his B&F results over his career means you dont know what you are looking at. I am not TRYING to justify his worth, He has justified his own worth by his performances.
I have tried to explain to you why fantasy points and brownlow votes are not reliable indicators for defenders.
You say you are not talking about how good he was back in 2012, nor am I. I told you he finished 5th LAST YEAR, 3rd before that then second. The relevance of 2012 was to highlight that he has consistently performed over a long period and back when we had some seriously good players on the list.

I am just struggling that the basis for your opinion is from YOU watching him play and you think that YOUR assessment is better than the coaching staff over the last seven years, even though you would be unaware of the role or instructions he has been asked to carry out. Is that what you are saying?
I agree with you that Seb would be a great choice also, thats why he is Vice captain and probably will be captain in 2020. If he was nominated captain i reckon it would be well earnt, Robbo a good choice also, but I would like to see him back and playing.

I think what happens sometimes is that players like Geary fly under the radar and its not until the end of their careers that we appreciate the good that they do.
I was a bit like you with Jason Blake, he wasnt great at anything - he played back, forward, ruck , wing and was average at all of them. but towards the end of his career I realised it was his versatility and attitude to do what the team needed him to do that made him valuable.
I reckon you should rethink your position on Geary

[The_Dud]

I admire the heart and passion Geary plays with, but to suggest he is a better footballer than Murphy or Walker is laughable.

I think the Maxwell comparison as a player is quite a good one, both tough heart and sole leaders but not skilled or A grade footballers.

Maxwell wasn’t a star, but he was a premiership captain and All Australian. Geary claim to fame is a few top 5 finishes in injury depleted and bottom 8 teams.

If he is in fact one of the first picked, that just indicates the weakness of our list and is very worrying. He would struggle to get into most other teams best 22.

Now I’m not saying he’s not a good bloke, or doesn’t try hard, or doesn’t love the club, or doesn’t have good leadership skills. But his football skills are ordinary, you could pull Roo off the couch right now and he would contribute more than Geary, and that’s a worry.

More nonsense. Geary hasnt finished outside our top 6 in the last 7 years including a 2nd, 3rd and fifth in the last 3 . Have a look at the other top ten finishers in 2012, a year we finished 9th. I dont care that you love Nick Maxwell or whether you think he would get a game in some other team, Or where StKilda finishes on the ladder - Its relevant for the purposes of picking a leader . The discussion was around whether he should be captain and whether or not he is best 22 at STKILDA. How he compares to anyone else in another team has nothing to do with the discussion.
Earlier you said he was no good because he didnt get enough brownlow votes or supercoach fantasy points - that says enough about how you formulate opinions.
BTW, Dylan Grimes made the 2018 AA squad, got Zero Brownlow votes and averaged 61 fantasy points (Geary averaged 79). Rance was 2018 AA fullback with Zero brownlow votes and only averaged 3 more fantasy points than Geary. Grimes has never voted in a Brownlow (Gears has 2).
Brownlow or fantasy points have no place in assessing defenders, its a midfielders award, decided by umpires who are focussed on umpiring.

The question is : Is he in Stkildas best 22? - Clearly over 7 years he is
Do the players and coached rate him as a leader? - Clearly they voted for him.

Out of curiosity, who did you wish had got the job as Captain?

Slow down there champ, I said I don’t think he’s good enough from watching him play. You tried to justify his worth with B&F placings so I responded with Brownlow and SuperCoach stats. I didn’t bring that stuff up.

And I’m not talking about how good he was in 2012, I’m talking about now. If he produces the same output as last year then I think we’re in trouble.

And again, I’m not questioning his leadership, I’m questioning his football ability. I believe a captain should be able to lead from the front and grab the game by the scruff of the neck.

Who would I choose? Probably Seb. I would have liked to see more from Steele or Steven, but it seems the latter isn’t interested in being a leader. Dan H if he has a good year, or even Robbo, but he’s obviously just coming back from injury. And in the future, maybe Acres, I still think he’ll be our best player in the not too distant future.

You say YOU dont think he is good enough from watching him play . I reckon his B&F results over his career means you dont know what you are looking at. I am not TRYING to justify his worth, He has justified his own worth by his performances.
I have tried to explain to you why fantasy points and brownlow votes are not reliable indicators for defenders.
You say you are not talking about how good he was back in 2012, nor am I. I told you he finished 5th LAST YEAR, 3rd before that then second. The relevance of 2012 was to highlight that he has consistently performed over a long period and back when we had some seriously good players on the list.

I am just struggling that the basis for your opinion is from YOU watching him play and you think that YOUR assessment is better than the coaching staff over the last seven years, even though you would be unaware of the role or instructions he has been asked to carry out. Is that what you are saying?
I agree with you that Seb would be a great choice also, thats why he is Vice captain and probably will be captain in 2020. If he was nominated captain i reckon it would be well earnt, Robbo a good choice also, but I would like to see him back and playing.

I think what happens sometimes is that players like Geary fly under the radar and its not until the end of their careers that we appreciate the good that they do.
I was a bit like you with Jason Blake, he wasnt great at anything - he played back, forward, ruck , wing and was average at all of them. but towards the end of his career I realised it was his versatility and attitude to do what the team needed him to do that made him valuable.
I reckon you should rethink your position on Geary

Yep, I watch him play and I don’t think he’s very good. Just like Brown, defenders who can’t hurt the opposition at all with their disposal are liabilities in today’s football.

And sorry but I don’t hold the recent coaching staff or their decisions in high regard at all. Where have they taken us in 5 years? Where were we meant to be in their grand plans by now, winning a premiership!? How many of them have been sacked? I think it’s clear they were no where near as competent as they thought they were.

I guess we’re just going to have to agree to disagree, and we’ll all see what this season brings.

[stonecold]

So Geary skipper again, Hanner's in leadership group and Hickey gone!!!!!

Lot of football experts on this forum, NOT!!!!!

Lot of Armchair experts, some should just stay quiet supporters really!!!!!

Bring on 2019!!!!!

I may be mistaken stonecold but other than your good self I don’t believe most posters consider themselves experts, more so supporters who come on this site to write and read opinions.

The nature of a forum to my understanding is for people to post their thoughts and read others input.

To constantly read your response bemoaning armchair experts who are not up to your exalted football knowledge status therefore should refrain from posting is becoming quite tiresome.

Yeah, yeah Corfe, nice to see you finally found Reverse!!!!!

So, your not an expert anymore, is that what your trying to say?????

Or, I'm sorry, I'm really just a supporter?????

Which one is it, cause you've come across as a 'self proclaimed ITK' for a long time now!!!!!

I'm sure you'll be bashing the Captain again in no time!!!!!

Franko Costo wants your number by the way!!!!!

1 DAY BAN ISSUED: Any post that negatively relates to or references, or baits (directly or indirectly) another poster, or posters, or group of posters in the Saintsational Fan Forum will be deemed a breach of rules and the penalty will be either a 1 DAY BAN or 1 WEEK BAN.

[Crossy66]

I admire the heart and passion Geary plays with, but to suggest he is a better footballer than Murphy or Walker is laughable.

I think the Maxwell comparison as a player is quite a good one, both tough heart and sole leaders but not skilled or A grade footballers.

Maxwell wasn’t a star, but he was a premiership captain and All Australian. Geary claim to fame is a few top 5 finishes in injury depleted and bottom 8 teams.

If he is in fact one of the first picked, that just indicates the weakness of our list and is very worrying. He would struggle to get into most other teams best 22.

Now I’m not saying he’s not a good bloke, or doesn’t try hard, or doesn’t love the club, or doesn’t have good leadership skills. But his football skills are ordinary, you could pull Roo off the couch right now and he would contribute more than Geary, and that’s a worry.

More nonsense. Geary hasnt finished outside our top 6 in the last 7 years including a 2nd, 3rd and fifth in the last 3 . Have a look at the other top ten finishers in 2012, a year we finished 9th. I dont care that you love Nick Maxwell or whether you think he would get a game in some other team, Or where StKilda finishes on the ladder - Its relevant for the purposes of picking a leader . The discussion was around whether he should be captain and whether or not he is best 22 at STKILDA. How he compares to anyone else in another team has nothing to do with the discussion.
Earlier you said he was no good because he didnt get enough brownlow votes or supercoach fantasy points - that says enough about how you formulate opinions.
BTW, Dylan Grimes made the 2018 AA squad, got Zero Brownlow votes and averaged 61 fantasy points (Geary averaged 79). Rance was 2018 AA fullback with Zero brownlow votes and only averaged 3 more fantasy points than Geary. Grimes has never voted in a Brownlow (Gears has 2).
Brownlow or fantasy points have no place in assessing defenders, its a midfielders award, decided by umpires who are focussed on umpiring.

The question is : Is he in Stkildas best 22? - Clearly over 7 years he is
Do the players and coached rate him as a leader? - Clearly they voted for him.

Out of curiosity, who did you wish had got the job as Captain?

Slow down there champ, I said I don’t think he’s good enough from watching him play. You tried to justify his worth with B&F placings so I responded with Brownlow and SuperCoach stats. I didn’t bring that stuff up.

And I’m not talking about how good he was in 2012, I’m talking about now. If he produces the same output as last year then I think we’re in trouble.

And again, I’m not questioning his leadership, I’m questioning his football ability. I believe a captain should be able to lead from the front and grab the game by the scruff of the neck.

Who would I choose? Probably Seb. I would have liked to see more from Steele or Steven, but it seems the latter isn’t interested in being a leader. Dan H if he has a good year, or even Robbo, but he’s obviously just coming back from injury. And in the future, maybe Acres, I still think he’ll be our best player in the not too distant future.

You say YOU dont think he is good enough from watching him play . I reckon his B&F results over his career means you dont know what you are looking at. I am not TRYING to justify his worth, He has justified his own worth by his performances.
I have tried to explain to you why fantasy points and brownlow votes are not reliable indicators for defenders.
You say you are not talking about how good he was back in 2012, nor am I. I told you he finished 5th LAST YEAR, 3rd before that then second. The relevance of 2012 was to highlight that he has consistently performed over a long period and back when we had some seriously good players on the list.

I am just struggling that the basis for your opinion is from YOU watching him play and you think that YOUR assessment is better than the coaching staff over the last seven years, even though you would be unaware of the role or instructions he has been asked to carry out. Is that what you are saying?
I agree with you that Seb would be a great choice also, thats why he is Vice captain and probably will be captain in 2020. If he was nominated captain i reckon it would be well earnt, Robbo a good choice also, but I would like to see him back and playing.

I think what happens sometimes is that players like Geary fly under the radar and its not until the end of their careers that we appreciate the good that they do.
I was a bit like you with Jason Blake, he wasnt great at anything - he played back, forward, ruck , wing and was average at all of them. but towards the end of his career I realised it was his versatility and attitude to do what the team needed him to do that made him valuable.
I reckon you should rethink your position on Geary

Yep, I watch him play and I don’t think he’s very good. Just like Brown, defenders who can’t hurt the opposition at all with their disposal are liabilities in today’s football.

And sorry but I don’t hold the recent coaching staff or their decisions in high regard at all. Where have they taken us in 5 years? Where were we meant to be in their grand plans by now, winning a premiership!? How many of them have been sacked? I think it’s clear they were no where near as competent as they thought they were.

I guess we’re just going to have to agree to disagree, and we’ll all see what this season brings.

I think its true that our coaching staff over the last 5 years, based on results and as a collective, arent as good as their counterparts at other clubs. But I also think they are better credentialled than you and me, particularly when assessing the performance of an AFL player and particularly when they also take into account how a player carries out team instructions. So if you want to keep insisting that you are a better judge of AFL Talent than blokes that have played hundreds of AFL games, then you are right that we will have to agree to disagree. (Apologies if your real name is Al Clarkson though)

[SaintPav]

I admire the heart and passion Geary plays with, but to suggest he is a better footballer than Murphy or Walker is laughable.

I think the Maxwell comparison as a player is quite a good one, both tough heart and sole leaders but not skilled or A grade footballers.

Maxwell wasn’t a star, but he was a premiership captain and All Australian. Geary claim to fame is a few top 5 finishes in injury depleted and bottom 8 teams.

If he is in fact one of the first picked, that just indicates the weakness of our list and is very worrying. He would struggle to get into most other teams best 22.

Now I’m not saying he’s not a good bloke, or doesn’t try hard, or doesn’t love the club, or doesn’t have good leadership skills. But his football skills are ordinary, you could pull Roo off the couch right now and he would contribute more than Geary, and that’s a worry.

More nonsense. Geary hasnt finished outside our top 6 in the last 7 years including a 2nd, 3rd and fifth in the last 3 . Have a look at the other top ten finishers in 2012, a year we finished 9th. I dont care that you love Nick Maxwell or whether you think he would get a game in some other team, Or where StKilda finishes on the ladder - Its relevant for the purposes of picking a leader . The discussion was around whether he should be captain and whether or not he is best 22 at STKILDA. How he compares to anyone else in another team has nothing to do with the discussion.
Earlier you said he was no good because he didnt get enough brownlow votes or supercoach fantasy points - that says enough about how you formulate opinions.
BTW, Dylan Grimes made the 2018 AA squad, got Zero Brownlow votes and averaged 61 fantasy points (Geary averaged 79). Rance was 2018 AA fullback with Zero brownlow votes and only averaged 3 more fantasy points than Geary. Grimes has never voted in a Brownlow (Gears has 2).
Brownlow or fantasy points have no place in assessing defenders, its a midfielders award, decided by umpires who are focussed on umpiring.

The question is : Is he in Stkildas best 22? - Clearly over 7 years he is
Do the players and coached rate him as a leader? - Clearly they voted for him.

Out of curiosity, who did you wish had got the job as Captain?

Slow down there champ, I said I don’t think he’s good enough from watching him play. You tried to justify his worth with B&F placings so I responded with Brownlow and SuperCoach stats. I didn’t bring that stuff up.

And I’m not talking about how good he was in 2012, I’m talking about now. If he produces the same output as last year then I think we’re in trouble.

And again, I’m not questioning his leadership, I’m questioning his football ability. I believe a captain should be able to lead from the front and grab the game by the scruff of the neck.

Who would I choose? Probably Seb. I would have liked to see more from Steele or Steven, but it seems the latter isn’t interested in being a leader. Dan H if he has a good year, or even Robbo, but he’s obviously just coming back from injury. And in the future, maybe Acres, I still think he’ll be our best player in the not too distant future.

You say YOU dont think he is good enough from watching him play . I reckon his B&F results over his career means you dont know what you are looking at. I am not TRYING to justify his worth, He has justified his own worth by his performances.
I have tried to explain to you why fantasy points and brownlow votes are not reliable indicators for defenders.
You say you are not talking about how good he was back in 2012, nor am I. I told you he finished 5th LAST YEAR, 3rd before that then second. The relevance of 2012 was to highlight that he has consistently performed over a long period and back when we had some seriously good players on the list.

I am just struggling that the basis for your opinion is from YOU watching him play and you think that YOUR assessment is better than the coaching staff over the last seven years, even though you would be unaware of the role or instructions he has been asked to carry out. Is that what you are saying?
I agree with you that Seb would be a great choice also, thats why he is Vice captain and probably will be captain in 2020. If he was nominated captain i reckon it would be well earnt, Robbo a good choice also, but I would like to see him back and playing.

I think what happens sometimes is that players like Geary fly under the radar and its not until the end of their careers that we appreciate the good that they do.
I was a bit like you with Jason Blake, he wasnt great at anything - he played back, forward, ruck , wing and was average at all of them. but towards the end of his career I realised it was his versatility and attitude to do what the team needed him to do that made him valuable.
I reckon you should rethink your position on Geary

Yep, I watch him play and I don’t think he’s very good. Just like Brown, defenders who can’t hurt the opposition at all with their disposal are liabilities in today’s football.

And sorry but I don’t hold the recent coaching staff or their decisions in high regard at all. Where have they taken us in 5 years? Where were we meant to be in their grand plans by now, winning a premiership!? How many of them have been sacked? I think it’s clear they were no where near as competent as they thought they were.

I guess we’re just going to have to agree to disagree, and we’ll all see what this season brings.

Crossy66 disagreed with me in another thread about Geary playing as a midfield tagger and being able to get his own ball.

What does that tell you...

Geary is a good leader and stopper but doesn’t have the skill set full stop.

Votes from players, B&F finishes and SuperCoach stats etc are irrelevant.

[Joffa Burns]

So Geary skipper again, Hanner's in leadership group and Hickey gone!!!!!

Lot of football experts on this forum, NOT!!!!!

Lot of Armchair experts, some should just stay quiet supporters really!!!!!

Bring on 2019!!!!!

I may be mistaken stonecold but other than your good self I don’t believe most posters consider themselves experts, more so supporters who come on this site to write and read opinions.

The nature of a forum to my understanding is for people to post their thoughts and read others input.

To constantly read your response bemoaning armchair experts who are not up to your exalted football knowledge status therefore should refrain from posting is becoming quite tiresome.

Yeah, yeah Corfe, nice to see you finally found Reverse!!!!!

So, your not an expert anymore, is that what your trying to say?????

Or, I'm sorry, I'm really just a supporter?????

Which one is it, cause you've come across as a 'self proclaimed ITK' for a long time now!!!!!

I'm sure you'll be bashing the Captain again in no time!!!!!

Franko Costo wants your number by the way!!!!!

The above is a nonsensical response to a post you obviously didn’t like.

The highlighted areas are either fabricated or a figment of your imagination.

Before we both face bans lets comment on the leadership group.

The group has no runs on the board to date so cannot be considered a great group IMO. A great group would be Hodge, Mitchell, Roughead etc - proven performers. Our group has potential and looks improved on last year.

I like Gearys courage, passion, work rate and commitment as a player, but I don’t rate him an outstanding pure footballer.

Now is that Frank Costa fruitier and logistics entrepreneur and Geelong stalwart you refer to or Franco Cotso furniture man? Seems like you have morphed both into one Italian fruit eating warehouse building couch salesman from Geelong, Northa Melbourne & Footescrey.

[saynta]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ ... c8c4cb5fc0

“‘Gears’ is one of more impressive people I’ve met in football. He’s an absolute ripper. He’s tough, honest, he cares for his mates, cares for his footy club.”


I will go with Richo's opinion.

[Crossy66]

I admire the heart and passion Geary plays with, but to suggest he is a better footballer than Murphy or Walker is laughable.

I think the Maxwell comparison as a player is quite a good one, both tough heart and sole leaders but not skilled or A grade footballers.

Maxwell wasn’t a star, but he was a premiership captain and All Australian. Geary claim to fame is a few top 5 finishes in injury depleted and bottom 8 teams.

If he is in fact one of the first picked, that just indicates the weakness of our list and is very worrying. He would struggle to get into most other teams best 22.

Now I’m not saying he’s not a good bloke, or doesn’t try hard, or doesn’t love the club, or doesn’t have good leadership skills. But his football skills are ordinary, you could pull Roo off the couch right now and he would contribute more than Geary, and that’s a worry.

More nonsense. Geary hasnt finished outside our top 6 in the last 7 years including a 2nd, 3rd and fifth in the last 3 . Have a look at the other top ten finishers in 2012, a year we finished 9th. I dont care that you love Nick Maxwell or whether you think he would get a game in some other team, Or where StKilda finishes on the ladder - Its relevant for the purposes of picking a leader . The discussion was around whether he should be captain and whether or not he is best 22 at STKILDA. How he compares to anyone else in another team has nothing to do with the discussion.
Earlier you said he was no good because he didnt get enough brownlow votes or supercoach fantasy points - that says enough about how you formulate opinions.
BTW, Dylan Grimes made the 2018 AA squad, got Zero Brownlow votes and averaged 61 fantasy points (Geary averaged 79). Rance was 2018 AA fullback with Zero brownlow votes and only averaged 3 more fantasy points than Geary. Grimes has never voted in a Brownlow (Gears has 2).
Brownlow or fantasy points have no place in assessing defenders, its a midfielders award, decided by umpires who are focussed on umpiring.

The question is : Is he in Stkildas best 22? - Clearly over 7 years he is
Do the players and coached rate him as a leader? - Clearly they voted for him.

Out of curiosity, who did you wish had got the job as Captain?

Slow down there champ, I said I don’t think he’s good enough from watching him play. You tried to justify his worth with B&F placings so I responded with Brownlow and SuperCoach stats. I didn’t bring that stuff up.

And I’m not talking about how good he was in 2012, I’m talking about now. If he produces the same output as last year then I think we’re in trouble.

And again, I’m not questioning his leadership, I’m questioning his football ability. I believe a captain should be able to lead from the front and grab the game by the scruff of the neck.

Who would I choose? Probably Seb. I would have liked to see more from Steele or Steven, but it seems the latter isn’t interested in being a leader. Dan H if he has a good year, or even Robbo, but he’s obviously just coming back from injury. And in the future, maybe Acres, I still think he’ll be our best player in the not too distant future.

You say YOU dont think he is good enough from watching him play . I reckon his B&F results over his career means you dont know what you are looking at. I am not TRYING to justify his worth, He has justified his own worth by his performances.
I have tried to explain to you why fantasy points and brownlow votes are not reliable indicators for defenders.
You say you are not talking about how good he was back in 2012, nor am I. I told you he finished 5th LAST YEAR, 3rd before that then second. The relevance of 2012 was to highlight that he has consistently performed over a long period and back when we had some seriously good players on the list.

I am just struggling that the basis for your opinion is from YOU watching him play and you think that YOUR assessment is better than the coaching staff over the last seven years, even though you would be unaware of the role or instructions he has been asked to carry out. Is that what you are saying?
I agree with you that Seb would be a great choice also, thats why he is Vice captain and probably will be captain in 2020. If he was nominated captain i reckon it would be well earnt, Robbo a good choice also, but I would like to see him back and playing.

I think what happens sometimes is that players like Geary fly under the radar and its not until the end of their careers that we appreciate the good that they do.
I was a bit like you with Jason Blake, he wasnt great at anything - he played back, forward, ruck , wing and was average at all of them. but towards the end of his career I realised it was his versatility and attitude to do what the team needed him to do that made him valuable.
I reckon you should rethink your position on Geary

Yep, I watch him play and I don’t think he’s very good. Just like Brown, defenders who can’t hurt the opposition at all with their disposal are liabilities in today’s football.

And sorry but I don’t hold the recent coaching staff or their decisions in high regard at all. Where have they taken us in 5 years? Where were we meant to be in their grand plans by now, winning a premiership!? How many of them have been sacked? I think it’s clear they were no where near as competent as they thought they were.

I guess we’re just going to have to agree to disagree, and we’ll all see what this season brings.

Crossy66 disagreed with me in another thread about Geary playing as a midfield tagger and being able to get his own ball.

What does that tell you...

Geary is a good leader and stopper but doesn’t have the skill set full stop.

Votes from players, B&F finishes and SuperCoach stats etc are irrelevant.

If I disagreed with you in another post i guess that tells you I disagreed with you... or have i missed something?
You say Geary is a good leader and a good stopper, so I take that to mean you think he would be a good captain and lockdown defender ? but not midfielder?
You think that the opinion of his teams mates, his coaches i.e. the inner sanctum is irrelevant....I would probably disagree with that. For most players, its the opinions that matter most i.e. respect from your peers and those you lead. People OUtSIDE the bubble, like negative fans are the irrelevant ones.
Supercoach and Brownlow votes for sure - completely irrelevant for a defender.

[The_Dud]

I admire the heart and passion Geary plays with, but to suggest he is a better footballer than Murphy or Walker is laughable.

I think the Maxwell comparison as a player is quite a good one, both tough heart and sole leaders but not skilled or A grade footballers.

Maxwell wasn’t a star, but he was a premiership captain and All Australian. Geary claim to fame is a few top 5 finishes in injury depleted and bottom 8 teams.

If he is in fact one of the first picked, that just indicates the weakness of our list and is very worrying. He would struggle to get into most other teams best 22.

Now I’m not saying he’s not a good bloke, or doesn’t try hard, or doesn’t love the club, or doesn’t have good leadership skills. But his football skills are ordinary, you could pull Roo off the couch right now and he would contribute more than Geary, and that’s a worry.

More nonsense. Geary hasnt finished outside our top 6 in the last 7 years including a 2nd, 3rd and fifth in the last 3 . Have a look at the other top ten finishers in 2012, a year we finished 9th. I dont care that you love Nick Maxwell or whether you think he would get a game in some other team, Or where StKilda finishes on the ladder - Its relevant for the purposes of picking a leader . The discussion was around whether he should be captain and whether or not he is best 22 at STKILDA. How he compares to anyone else in another team has nothing to do with the discussion.
Earlier you said he was no good because he didnt get enough brownlow votes or supercoach fantasy points - that says enough about how you formulate opinions.
BTW, Dylan Grimes made the 2018 AA squad, got Zero Brownlow votes and averaged 61 fantasy points (Geary averaged 79). Rance was 2018 AA fullback with Zero brownlow votes and only averaged 3 more fantasy points than Geary. Grimes has never voted in a Brownlow (Gears has 2).
Brownlow or fantasy points have no place in assessing defenders, its a midfielders award, decided by umpires who are focussed on umpiring.

The question is : Is he in Stkildas best 22? - Clearly over 7 years he is
Do the players and coached rate him as a leader? - Clearly they voted for him.

Out of curiosity, who did you wish had got the job as Captain?

Slow down there champ, I said I don’t think he’s good enough from watching him play. You tried to justify his worth with B&F placings so I responded with Brownlow and SuperCoach stats. I didn’t bring that stuff up.

And I’m not talking about how good he was in 2012, I’m talking about now. If he produces the same output as last year then I think we’re in trouble.

And again, I’m not questioning his leadership, I’m questioning his football ability. I believe a captain should be able to lead from the front and grab the game by the scruff of the neck.

Who would I choose? Probably Seb. I would have liked to see more from Steele or Steven, but it seems the latter isn’t interested in being a leader. Dan H if he has a good year, or even Robbo, but he’s obviously just coming back from injury. And in the future, maybe Acres, I still think he’ll be our best player in the not too distant future.

You say YOU dont think he is good enough from watching him play . I reckon his B&F results over his career means you dont know what you are looking at. I am not TRYING to justify his worth, He has justified his own worth by his performances.
I have tried to explain to you why fantasy points and brownlow votes are not reliable indicators for defenders.
You say you are not talking about how good he was back in 2012, nor am I. I told you he finished 5th LAST YEAR, 3rd before that then second. The relevance of 2012 was to highlight that he has consistently performed over a long period and back when we had some seriously good players on the list.

I am just struggling that the basis for your opinion is from YOU watching him play and you think that YOUR assessment is better than the coaching staff over the last seven years, even though you would be unaware of the role or instructions he has been asked to carry out. Is that what you are saying?
I agree with you that Seb would be a great choice also, thats why he is Vice captain and probably will be captain in 2020. If he was nominated captain i reckon it would be well earnt, Robbo a good choice also, but I would like to see him back and playing.

I think what happens sometimes is that players like Geary fly under the radar and its not until the end of their careers that we appreciate the good that they do.
I was a bit like you with Jason Blake, he wasnt great at anything - he played back, forward, ruck , wing and was average at all of them. but towards the end of his career I realised it was his versatility and attitude to do what the team needed him to do that made him valuable.
I reckon you should rethink your position on Geary

Yep, I watch him play and I don’t think he’s very good. Just like Brown, defenders who can’t hurt the opposition at all with their disposal are liabilities in today’s football.

And sorry but I don’t hold the recent coaching staff or their decisions in high regard at all. Where have they taken us in 5 years? Where were we meant to be in their grand plans by now, winning a premiership!? How many of them have been sacked? I think it’s clear they were no where near as competent as they thought they were.

I guess we’re just going to have to agree to disagree, and we’ll all see what this season brings.

I think its true that our coaching staff over the last 5 years, based on results and as a collective, arent as good as their counterparts at other clubs. But I also think they are better credentialled than you and me, particularly when assessing the performance of an AFL player and particularly when they also take into account how a player carries out team instructions. So if you want to keep insisting that you are a better judge of AFL Talent than blokes that have played hundreds of AFL games, then you are right that we will have to agree to disagree. (Apologies if your real name is Al Clarkson though)

Coaches are not infallible, and I’m happy to go against them if I disagree.

I still maintain Maxy should have played in the 09 GF, Ball should have been on the ground in the last quarter, and the Marsh brothers played twice too many tests than they should have.