Billy has a Tagger

[rodgerfox]

No Pattern, really?????

Try wins and losses!!!!!

Honestly?????

Way too simplistic.

We could claim that Joyce is the difference, because he has a 100% win ratio. It simply doesn't work like that.

Based on one game?????

Hickledik hasn't played in a St.Kilda win for almost two seasons!!!!!

Sometimes the simple stats say the most obvious Rodger!!!!!

Longer has only played 4.

As I said, it's way too simplistic.

[CURLY]

Geelong would be all over Longer and I would think Hawthorn would be interested.

Why?

I try really, really hard to see what Longer brings to the table - but I just can't.


Given he'll be 26yo next year, What would he do at Hawthorn or Geelong that McEvoy or Rhys Stanley don't offer ?

All of their numbers are way, waaaay above Longers.

Billy is a beautiful tap ruck something that Geelong are screaming for. I couldn't give a s*** about meaningless chips across half back that other rucks may get.

[rodgerfox]

Billy is a beautiful tap ruck something that Geelong are screaming for.

Is he??

As I've pointed out earlier, McEvoy, Simpson and Stanley beat him badly statistically in Hit Outs, 1% ers, Contested Possessions, Tackles, Contested Marks (Longer has 0!) and almost every stat imaginable.

We don't improve much for Inside 50s or Clearances when Longer plays. I don't know where the 'great tap ruckman' thing comes from.

We only won Clearances once when Longer has played this year (against lowly Gold Coast) - and he was beaten in the Hitouts that day!

[The_Dud]

The whole “but he played and we won” argument is lazy and flawed.

Tom Hawkins had a higher winning percentage than both Plugger and Roo. Are those same posters prepared to say Hawkins is a better player than the other 2?

[bigcarl]

As far as I can see, the only thing Billy has on Hickey is physicality.

He’s big and strong enough to be able to provide a contest all day.

That may make the players around him walk taller, so that’s something you need to take into account.

As a pure footballer, Hickey is miles ahead and can do things Billy will never do.

I actually like them both. They both have their strengths. It’s a shame that the modern game allows you to play only one most of the time.

Alternate them and maybe a reduction in interchange rotations will bring first and second ruck back into vogue.

[SydneySainter]

Geelong would be all over Longer and I would think Hawthorn would be interested.

Why?

I try really, really hard to see what Longer brings to the table - but I just can't.


Given he'll be 26yo next year, What would he do at Hawthorn or Geelong that McEvoy or Rhys Stanley don't offer ?

All of their numbers are way, waaaay above Longers.

Billy is a beautiful tap ruck something that Geelong are screaming for. I couldn't give a s*** about meaningless chips across half back that other rucks may get.

A so-called beautiful tap ruck who's been beaten by every one of his opponents so far this season?

He has the odd nice hit out, as does Hickey, but they're both all too frequently beaten by their opponents who are usually one of the best, if not THE best on ground.

I really can't see any club tripping over to nab either one of our rucks. Unless they think St. Kilda can't develop or coach a ruck man for crap and think they can do better.

[SydneySainter]

The whole “but he played and we won” argument is lazy and flawed.

Tom Hawkins had a higher winning percentage than both Plugger and Roo. Are those same posters prepared to say Hawkins is a better player than the other 2?

Battle has just about the same winning percentage as Longer so far this season. Maybe we're winning because of Battle...

[saynta]

The whole “but he played and we won” argument is lazy and flawed.

Tom Hawkins had a higher winning percentage than both Plugger and Roo. Are those same posters prepared to say Hawkins is a better player than the other 2?

Battle has just about the same winning percentage as Longer so far this season. Maybe we're winning because of Battle...

Battle certainly has helped.

[Scollop]

No Pattern, really?????

Try wins and losses!!!!!

Honestly?????

So the Dee's won the clearances, almost doubled the centre clearances and Gawn is best on ground, but us winning was the result of Longer just being there?

We lose win Hickey plays, our mids play better with Billy in ruck!!!!!

Simple!!!!!

Hickey has hardly played in a win since 2016, almost 2 season!!!!!

We lose when he is in Ruck, push all the other stats you like, that's the one the matters!!!!!

Which ruckman (or ruckmen) played against Richmond at Etihad last year? Honest question - that was one of the most dominant displays by our mids for years against the eventual premiers - I can't remember and can't be bothered checking.

Easy, we won, so the answer is: Billy!!!!!

What colour jocks do you wear? No, actually don't worry about answering, just Don't change them!!

Billy is obviously our lucky charm until someone finds a rusty ol' horse shoe or a rabbits foot to replace him

[Devilhead]

Is it time to give Marshall or Pierce a run at it?

Nothing to lose it seems

[sunsaint]

Is it time to give Marshall or Pierce a run at it?

Nothing to lose it seems

well here's the thing
with battle out - we are going to bring back Bruce and force him to play 2nd ruck - hey AR this is a disaster
I believe that as a team in 2018 we turned a corner in the Weagles game
& coincidence or not it was the last time we played two rucks with Marshall selected & we hold our own in ruck duals & clearances against the eagles onballers
The following week we bring Battle in and suddenly the forwardline looks a lot better

[stonecold]

The whole “but he played and we won” argument is lazy and flawed.

Tom Hawkins had a higher winning percentage than both Plugger and Roo. Are those same posters prepared to say Hawkins is a better player than the other 2?

Lazy and flawed?????

When Hickledik plays, we don't win, is that lazy and flawed as well?????

Our mids prefer Billy playing, simple as that, its irrelevant what any of us think, have a ll the theories you like, it's what's best for our players and structures, not some clowns on a fan forum!!!!!

Footy clubs are judged by Wins and losses, one of our rucks plays in wins, the other has hardly played in a win for nearly two seasons!!!!!


Say what you like, until that changes, I'm sticking with Longer!!!!!

As I have said on many occasions, neither are great, but only one is 'soft', so as an experienced footballer, I know which one I'd rather go into battle with!!!!!

Is it 8 or 9 games for Hickledik this season for zero wins?????

[The_Dud]

The whole “but he played and we won” argument is lazy and flawed.

Tom Hawkins had a higher winning percentage than both Plugger and Roo. Are those same posters prepared to say Hawkins is a better player than the other 2?

Lazy and flawed?????

When Hickledik plays, we don't win, is that lazy and flawed as well?????

Our mids prefer Billy playing, simple as that, its irrelevant what any of us think, have a ll the theories you like, it's what's best for our players and structures, not some clowns on a fan forum!!!!!

Footy clubs are judged by Wins and losses, one of our rucks plays in wins, the other has hardly played in a win for nearly two seasons!!!!!


Say what you like, until that changes, I'm sticking with Longer!!!!!

As I have said on many occasions, neither are great, but only one is 'soft', so as an experienced footballer, I know which one I'd rather go into battle with!!!!!

Is it 8 or 9 games for Hickledik this season for zero wins?????

Hickey didn’t play last season due to injury, so please stop saying “nearly 2 seasons”. How many wins did Longer play in in 2016?

And the 3 wins he’s played in this year, 2 have been against teams currently 16th and 17th on the ladder, and last week he was smashed in every measure you can think of, with his direct opponent nearly single handedly dragging his team across the line.

We won in spite of Longer. 2 of the games his direct opponent smashed him, and the third he was outplayed by Witts.

Billy is a liability, and is not up to AFL standard in anything outside of a ruck contest, where he is still only average.

[Joffa Burns]

Have written this previously but Billy is a perfect fit for GWS and would probably become a premiership ruckman at that club.

Why?

Dawson Simpson's numbers monster Longer's this year. And he's widely renowned as a mediocre ruckman.

What could Longer possibly offer that he doesn't?

I live/work between Gold Coast, Sydney and Melbourne and I go to 4 or 5 GWS home games a year so see them a bit.

Simpson is ordinary, I believe his skills are similar to Billy with him being less physical than Billy, he'd also be 4 or 5 years older than Billy at a guess and less if any upside.

IMO Keefe is not an AFL standard footballer despite a couple of decent early matches, Lobb is a forward with no physicality in the ruck and they have a young skinny kid whose names escapes me.

I think with their highly skilled midfield a ruckman like Longer who at least breaks even in the contest and provides a physical presence at stoppages fits their need very well and will not cost a lot of $ or in a trade.

Just give us Will Setterfield for Billy and its deal done

[stonecold]

The whole “but he played and we won” argument is lazy and flawed.

Tom Hawkins had a higher winning percentage than both Plugger and Roo. Are those same posters prepared to say Hawkins is a better player than the other 2?

Lazy and flawed?????

When Hickledik plays, we don't win, is that lazy and flawed as well?????

Our mids prefer Billy playing, simple as that, its irrelevant what any of us think, have a ll the theories you like, it's what's best for our players and structures, not some clowns on a fan forum!!!!!

Footy clubs are judged by Wins and losses, one of our rucks plays in wins, the other has hardly played in a win for nearly two seasons!!!!!


Say what you like, until that changes, I'm sticking with Longer!!!!!

As I have said on many occasions, neither are great, but only one is 'soft', so as an experienced footballer, I know which one I'd rather go into battle with!!!!!

Is it 8 or 9 games for Hickledik this season for zero wins?????

Hickey didn’t play last season due to injury, so please stop saying “nearly 2 seasons”. How many wins did Longer play in in 2016?

And the 3 wins he’s played in this year, 2 have been against teams currently 16th and 17th on the ladder, and last week he was smashed in every measure you can think of, with his direct opponent nearly single handedly dragging his team across the line.

We won in spite of Longer. 2 of the games his direct opponent smashed him, and the third he was outplayed by Witts.

Billy is a liability, and is not up to AFL standard in anything outside of a ruck contest, where he is still only average.

Seems to be playing AFL at the minute, how many games did you play Champion?????

Not up to AFL standard, well, that just doesn't get you on an AFL list, does it!!!!!

Let alone playing AFL games, go away, your an arm chair expert!!!!!

[asiu]

i'm lounging back in a leather 'n timber steen ostergaard
swivel Stoney
(with a Molly)

thats more collecter than expert though , ay

[stonecold]

Dud, no comment on Hickledik's losses still though, funny that!!!!!

[Toy Saint]

Would Geelong trade Stanley for Longer?

Would St Kilda be interested?

[saynta]

Would Geelong trade Stanley for Longer?

Would St Kilda be interested?

No.

[The_Dud]

The whole “but he played and we won” argument is lazy and flawed.

Tom Hawkins had a higher winning percentage than both Plugger and Roo. Are those same posters prepared to say Hawkins is a better player than the other 2?

Lazy and flawed?????

When Hickledik plays, we don't win, is that lazy and flawed as well?????

Our mids prefer Billy playing, simple as that, its irrelevant what any of us think, have a ll the theories you like, it's what's best for our players and structures, not some clowns on a fan forum!!!!!

Footy clubs are judged by Wins and losses, one of our rucks plays in wins, the other has hardly played in a win for nearly two seasons!!!!!


Say what you like, until that changes, I'm sticking with Longer!!!!!

As I have said on many occasions, neither are great, but only one is 'soft', so as an experienced footballer, I know which one I'd rather go into battle with!!!!!

Is it 8 or 9 games for Hickledik this season for zero wins?????

Hickey didn’t play last season due to injury, so please stop saying “nearly 2 seasons”. How many wins did Longer play in in 2016?

And the 3 wins he’s played in this year, 2 have been against teams currently 16th and 17th on the ladder, and last week he was smashed in every measure you can think of, with his direct opponent nearly single handedly dragging his team across the line.

We won in spite of Longer. 2 of the games his direct opponent smashed him, and the third he was outplayed by Witts.

Billy is a liability, and is not up to AFL standard in anything outside of a ruck contest, where he is still only average.

Seems to be playing AFL at the minute, how many games did you play Champion?????

Not up to AFL standard, well, that just doesn't get you on an AFL list, does it!!!!!

Let alone playing AFL games, go away, your an arm chair expert!!!!!

I think my football experience is about as relevant as yours at this point Stoney!

[Linton Lodger]

A mate of mine is a friend of Stan Alves. Alves told him an anecdote about his days at St Kilda which I don't think he's ever publicly shared, at least as far as I know.

Don't know which year this occurred, could've been 1997, but I'm not sure. Stan asked the players to write down the team mate they most respected. The resounding winner shocked Stan. It wasn't a matter of Stan not rating the player, but he was surprised, because it wasn't Harvey or Burke.

He thought they might be taking the mickey, so he went back to them and asked WTF? Were they taking the Mickey? They assured him they were completely serious and were eager to explain why.

I'll give fellow Forumites a while to see if they can work out who that player was.

[The_Dud]

Dud, no comment on Hickledik's losses still though, funny that!!!!!

They’re not Hickey or Longer’s wins or losses, they were just a very small part in a team performance.

And like I said, Longer’s played against one quality team this year, and he got spanked. Beating teams below us doesn’t impress me, and Hickey didn’t get that opportunity, he was too busy playing against top 8 sides!

[kosifantutti]

A mate of mine is a friend of Stan Alves. Alves told him an anecdote about his days at St Kilda which I don't think he's ever publicly shared, at least as far as I know.

Don't know which year this occurred, could've been 1997, but I'm not sure. Stan asked the players to write down the team mate they most respected. The resounding winner shocked Stan. It wasn't a matter of Stan not rating the player, but he was surprised, because it wasn't Harvey or Burke.

He thought they might be taking the mickey, so he went back to them and asked WTF? Were they taking the Mickey? They assured him they were completely serious and were eager to explain why.

I'll give fellow Forumites a while to see if they can work out who that player was.

Spider?

[Linton Lodger]

A mate of mine is a friend of Stan Alves. Alves told him an anecdote about his days at St Kilda which I don't think he's ever publicly shared, at least as far as I know.

Don't know which year this occurred, could've been 1997, but I'm not sure. Stan asked the players to write down the team mate they most respected. The resounding winner shocked Stan. It wasn't a matter of Stan not rating the player, but he was surprised, because it wasn't Harvey or Burke.

He thought they might be taking the mickey, so he went back to them and asked WTF? Were they taking the Mickey? They assured him they were completely serious and were eager to explain why.

I'll give fellow Forumites a while to see if they can work out who that player was.

Spider?

Nope.

[skeptic]

I don’t understand why someone needs a footy CV to be able to have a valid opinion about an football related issue.

Can someone explain that to me? Or should I simply accept that Tim Watson’s ideas on coaching will far surpass anything I could ever think of.