Billy Cost Us The Game

[sainter45]

I have only watched it once but there was a saints player running towards the throw in who veers right to go to the front of the throw and therefore leaves a yawnig great hole for Gray to run through at the back. I tell the under 14's guard the space at the back of the throw in.

[stonecold]

Rubbish thread, anyone with any football knowledge knows one player doesn't cost you a game!!!!!

Several players did not follow structure, to pick one player out in particular is a very un-educated understanding of the modern game!!!!!

Could write a book on every single incident from Saturday, to point one out is insane, IMHO!!!!!

[WellardSaint]

I think the whole St Kilda team was a little surprised by Ryder's action. They have been accustomed to the player who gets front position just knocking the ball harmlessly to their feet or out of bounds.

Was very clever by Ryder. Even special. Brucey would've done his nut in the commentary box.

I've watched again the last minute of the game. What was actually most galling the goal proceeding the winning one.

Totally against the play and we didn't have any extra numbers back.

Why wouldn't you reset and go uber defensive setups with a 10 point lead and 2 minutes left after Skunks goal?

Do you even need a forward setup at that stage??

last year when we beat Dees with Joey kicking the last goal,
there was commentary on why Melb didn't flood the backline.
Our guys...I'm speechless.

We did it against Dockers, Billings took 2 great saving marks down back.
What's the problem? Don't say they're a young side. Shoulda done it again.

You want to save the game, in the dying minutes, you save the bloody game.

[Moods]

Rubbish thread, anyone with any football knowledge knows one player doesn't cost you a game!!!!!

Several players did not follow structure, to pick one player out in particular is a very un-educated understanding of the modern game!!!!!

Could write a book on every single incident from Saturday, to point one out is insane, IMHO!!!!!

Of course it's not insane. It's the critical incident of the game. All the 100's of incidents that occur during a game end up at that last incident. We keep hearing how big and strong he is and how his strength is his strength. Too much to ask that he holds his ground and ensures that at very least he squares the contest? It's not as if he get 15 possessions and takes 1/2 doz marks every week like every other half decent ruckman? No, he makes our mids stand tall apparently.

It would be the same if Billings was 20m out and kicking after the siren. These are professional footballers and this is what they get paid for. We need players who can stand up in the big moments. In fairness to Billy his was the first mistake of that contest - it was like a domino. About 3 more were made. But it started with him.

The other thing is the lack of leadership around the contest. Could you see the hawks allowing that to happen with Hodge directing traffic in the dying seconds?

[Yorkeys]

Everyone would have been exhausted. That makes for poor judgment, mind willing but body a bit slow . Ryder and Gray are exceptional players, the ball bounced truly. Plenty of other 1%ers earlier cost more than 2 points but that last minute was like watching the proverbial slow train wreck. Weller always and Billings too often for instance can't buy goals as professional forwards. You hope they ( the seniors) all get fitter, smarter, experienced and more skilful, just to avoid the pain of losing like that and being the subjects of sympathy/ridicule rather than be hailed as highly respected professionals. Time will tell. Billy can't be blamed in isolation if at all.

[oh when the]

The second last goal gave them the sniff
and they took it.

[samuraisaint]

Marshall in this week - has to happen.
Roo should play every week til the end of the year now, so we will probably play 1 ruckman each week, and with Gilbert injured, Bruce will probably provide the chop out - although Bruce got beaten by Ryder badly in the ruck contests when Longer was resting. Maybe Hickey plays in the ruck this week against the Eagles, and have Marshall on the bench to pinch hit in the ruck contests when Hickey is rested.
Can see Holmes getting another chance soon too, but maybe not if we get on a roll and finals are still mathematically possible. Hickey usually offers us more around the ground than Longer and Holmes, I think. Our forward and ruck set ups look like a pigs dinner at the moment. I really hope we get this right this week.

[saintkev]

Having watched the game three times, I'm staggered nobody has commented on the elephant in the room.

Billy Longer cost us the game. All he needed to do was contest that last ruck contest. He didn't. We lost!

Statistics for the game would indicate that you're right, Bernard!

Ryder had 15 possessions (11 of them were contested): 11 kicks, 5 handballs, 45 ruck knockouts, 5 marks, 8 effective disposals from stoppages, 5 inside 50s. He was 8th in total possessions for Port Adelaide.

Longer had 5 possessions (3 contested): 0 kicks, 5 handballs, 32 ruck knockouts, 0 marks, 2 effective disposals from stoppages and 1 inside 50. He was 2nd last in possessions for the Saints (Brown was last with 4).

It's time someone like Holmes is selected who can direct the ball from ruck contests more efficiently and effectively and provide more of a marking target and contest around the ground.

[thejiggingsaint]

Rubbish thread, anyone with any football knowledge knows one player doesn't cost you a game!!!!!

Several players did not follow structure, to pick one player out in particular is a very un-educated understanding of the modern game!!!!!

Could write a book on every single incident from Saturday, to point one out is insane, IMHO!!!!!

Of course it's not insane. It's the critical incident of the game. All the 100's of incidents that occur during a game end up at that last incident. We keep hearing how big and strong he is and how his strength is his strength. Too much to ask that he holds his ground and ensures that at very least he squares the contest? It's not as if he get 15 possessions and takes 1/2 doz marks every week like every other half decent ruckman? No, he makes our mids stand tall apparently.

It would be the same if Billings was 20m out and kicking after the siren. These are professional footballers and this is what they get paid for. We need players who can stand up in the big moments. In fairness to Billy his was the first mistake of that contest - it was like a domino. About 3 more were made. But it started with him.

The other thing is the lack of leadership around the contest. Could you see the hawks allowing that to happen with Hodge directing traffic in the dying seconds?

How would the Hawks have coped without Hodge, Gibson, Burgoyne and Roughead at the same play? Have you taken a glance at that teamsheet from Saturday?

[Crossy66]

Having watched the game three times, I'm staggered nobody has commented on the elephant in the room.

Billy Longer cost us the game. All he needed to do was contest that last ruck contest. He didn't. We lost!

Statistics for the game would indicate that you're right, Bernard!

Ryder had 15 possessions (11 of them were contested): 11 kicks, 5 handballs, 45 ruck knockouts, 5 marks, 8 effective disposals from stoppages, 5 inside 50s. He was 8th in total possessions for Port Adelaide.

Longer had 5 possessions (3 contested): 0 kicks, 5 handballs, 32 ruck knockouts, 0 marks, 2 effective disposals from stoppages and 1 inside 50. He was 2nd last in possessions for the Saints (Brown was last with 4).

It's time someone like Holmes is selected who can direct the ball from ruck contests more efficiently and effectively and provide more of a marking target and contest around the ground.

Interesting perspective. You are comparing the 2nd highest ranked ruckman in 2017 with 200 plus games and 6 years older with a developing kid (in ruckman terms) with 60 games. Also no mention of a major positive - that Billy had the most tackles of any player on the ground, He also won or atleast halved the previous 5 ruck contests. Yep Paddy did him in the crucial last one and is a better ruckman at this stage - no question.
But i think Billy has come along really well in the back end of the season and will be a very good player over the next few years. BTW , nominating Holmes as a better prospect? .. geez.
The reality is that we should never have been in that position. Straight kicking early on and we could have been 5+ goals up. Composure in front of goal has cost us a number of games this year - could easily be sitting top four

[To the top]

The question is not the last ruck contest on the weekend but in how many of those 60 games has his opposite number been the opposition's best player or high in their best?

Ryder received 8 Coaches votes

We have to aspire higher to succeed

And that is the problem as we turn our List, because Longer is not the only one not up to the required class

There are no excuses and those making excuses are those impeding progress

At some stage the message needs to be the fact if St Kilda are to add to their 1 point success in 1966 and that is the requirement I leave you to consider

We have the makings with 3 top 10 Draft picks from recent years and other First Round selections - plus Carlisle

[Crossy66]

The question is not the last ruck contest on the weekend but in how many of those 60 games has his opposite number been the opposition's best player or high in their best?

Ryder received 8 Coaches votes

We have to aspire higher to succeed

And that is the problem as we turn our List, because Longer is not the only one not up to the required class

There are no excuses and those making excuses are those impeding progress

At some stage the message needs to be the fact if St Kilda are to add to their 1 point success in 1966 and that is the requirement I leave you to consider

We have the makings with 3 top 10 Draft picks from recent years and other First Round selections - plus Carlisle

A better question - its not about the past 60 but will he develop to be the ruckman we need when we expect to challenge i.e. 2019, 2020 maybe even 2018? In my view, very much so. Perhaps others have a different view. Give him some time, he gives a way a few years to most of the better ruckman perhaps with the exception of Grundy.
I dont think we are too far way, as mentioned earlier, if we kicked a little straighter we could have been close to top 4. Just need to sort that out plus add some elite talent i.e. A RFA Dusty and say a Kelly, plus add the burst of a Freeman and natural development of our kids and we will look very different.
You are right in that a few of the current crop will drop off.

[BackFromUSA]

I have only watched it once but there was a saints player running towards the throw in who veers right to go to the front of the throw and therefore leaves a yawnig great hole for Gray to run through at the back. I tell the under 14's guard the space at the back of the throw in.

Acres

[suss]

I have only watched it once but there was a saints player running towards the throw in who veers right to go to the front of the throw and therefore leaves a yawnig great hole for Gray to run through at the back. I tell the under 14's guard the space at the back of the throw in.

Acres

Yup. He cost us the penultimate goal, and the last goal, and the game, by being a very lazy and weak footballer.

He looks like a millionaire sometimes but atrocious at others. I can see why he yo-yos between the Saints and Sandy.

[bigred]

Jebus.

It wasn't the flowered up stoppage, or the soft goal before it that cost us the game.

Two goals, twelve behinds and about four out on the full, 14 minutes into the third quarter.

We had done MORE than enough to be in control of that game but just flowered it up in front of goal.. AGAIN.


And again... and again.... and again.... and again.......and again.

[Devilhead]

I have only watched it once but there was a saints player running towards the throw in who veers right to go to the front of the throw and therefore leaves a yawnig great hole for Gray to run through at the back. I tell the under 14's guard the space at the back of the throw in.

Acres

Yup. He cost us the penultimate goal, and the last goal, and the game, by being a very lazy and weak footballer.

He looks like a millionaire sometimes but atrocious at others. I can see why he yo-yos between the Saints and Sandy.

I find it quite amazing what so called armchair experts expect from a 21 year old 30 game veteran

Hard learning experience for the kid and no doubt he will act differently next time as will all our players in and around a similar contest / situation

Not one person is to blame for that loss - s*** happens to young inexperienced players / teams and they learn and they move on - its called development!!

[thejiggingsaint]

I have only watched it once but there was a saints player running towards the throw in who veers right to go to the front of the throw and therefore leaves a yawnig great hole for Gray to run through at the back. I tell the under 14's guard the space at the back of the throw in.

Acres

Yup. He cost us the penultimate goal, and the last goal, and the game, by being a very lazy and weak footballer.

He looks like a millionaire sometimes but atrocious at others. I can see why he yo-yos between the Saints and Sandy.

I find it quite amazing what so called armchair experts expect from a 21 year old 30 game veteran

Hard learning experience for the kid and no doubt he will act differently next time as will all our players in and around a similar contest / situation

Not one person is to blame for that loss - s*** happens to young inexperienced players / teams and they learn and they move on - its called development!!

For "Billy" read "Raph"?

[spert]

OK our opponents need a goal to win, there is less than thirty seconds on the clock, there's a throw in on the opponents half forward flank.
They will either go to a set play that they have practiced many times in training or they will just take it as it comes.
Go on I dare you answer.

Their ruckman retreats 15 metres further than normal.
Their ruckman runs faster than our ruckman.
Our dumbo ruckman retreats with him.
Guess what when theball is thrown in their ruckman gets to the drop of the ball our dumbo ruckman does not make it to the contest.

Where will he direct the knockout
Ryder will either hit the ball blindly or he will hit to there best clearance specialist.
Go on I dare you to answer.

Gray has two metres break on Ross.
He can only guard Gray from one side he needs help.
Our mids at the contest Dunstan and Billings are ball watching to see where Ryder hits the ball.
Gray is NOT ball watching, he knows where the ball is going.
Dunstan and Billings let Gray run past them because they are ball watching.
They answered Ryder will just hit the ball blindly.

IT IS A SET PLAY YOU IDIOTS,

THE TAP WILL GO TO THEIR BEST CLEARANCE SPECIALIST

Football is a great leveller you can be a stupid as ... or as smart as Einstein it rarely matters
You can be stupid enough to ruin your career prospects after football by coating yourself in tattoos or smart enough to become a doctor it does not matter.
Except in moments like this.

Email Richo- he needs to know this

[skeptic]

you learn a lot about ppl when they're under pressure

on this forum, the finger pointers standout

[spert]

you learn a lot about ppl when they're under pressure

on this forum, the finger pointers standout

Not pointing any fingers are ya?

[SaintPav]

you learn a lot about ppl when they're under pressure

on this forum, the finger pointers standout

The reaction is fairly normal but of course you've never bagged out players, coaches etc over the journey, have ya?

Apart from our goal kicking, the performance in the last 2 min deserves criticism.

No one deserves abuse but harsh criticism is warranted.

[thejiggingsaint]

you learn a lot about ppl when they're under pressure

on this forum, the finger pointers standout

Not pointing any fingers are ya?

[suss]

I have only watched it once but there was a saints player running towards the throw in who veers right to go to the front of the throw and therefore leaves a yawnig great hole for Gray to run through at the back. I tell the under 14's guard the space at the back of the throw in.

Acres

Yup. He cost us the penultimate goal, and the last goal, and the game, by being a very lazy and weak footballer.

He looks like a millionaire sometimes but atrocious at others. I can see why he yo-yos between the Saints and Sandy.

I find it quite amazing what so called armchair experts expect from a 21 year old 30 game veteran

Hard learning experience for the kid and no doubt he will act differently next time as will all our players in and around a similar contest / situation

Not one person is to blame for that loss - s*** happens to young inexperienced players / teams and they learn and they move on - its called development!!

He would've played more games had he given 100% each time he ran out.

I probably went a smidge overboard but I fear this kid will never realise his potential.

[DJ Higgins]

Billy cost us the game?

we kicked 2.12 at one stage. Terrible kicking, inaccuracy, poor decisions and the lack of a genuine goal sneak cost us the game. Billy cost us a goal.

[skeptic]

you learn a lot about ppl when they're under pressure

on this forum, the finger pointers standout

The reaction is fairly normal but of course you've never bagged out players, coaches etc over the journey, have ya?

Apart from our goal kicking, the performance in the last 2 min deserves criticism.

No one deserves abuse but harsh criticism is warranted.

Criticism is fine. Not rating players is fine
I haven't blamed one specific player for a loss