Hawks Have a Lot To Teach In Trading

[Rosco]

I smell a rat on this Mitchell move.

AFL has asked Cotchin and Mitchell to make a submission on the 2012 Brownlow. Embarrassing.

Those weak bastards at the AFL don't have the guts to make the proper call.

There's a time and place for consulting all stakeholders. This is neither. Weak.

[Sainternist]

So much love for Hawthorn by OP. You'd think it was Peter McKenna. Then wishing we dealt like them. They are in a different situation to us, so of course they're going to deal differently. "We gotta mimic everything Hawthorn does to be successful...yada, yada, yada..."

On the contrary, people like Ameet Baines are doing everything right in getting us in good shape to become a very good team soon enough.

[supersaints]

It's too simplistic to say the Hawks are so good at training. If you wanted to play and likely win a grand final over the past three seasons, you would choose the Hawks. The trading equalization crap is destroying the lower sides not helping them.

[supersaints]

That trading... Hate this phone

[bigcarl]

Hawks have shunted a quadruple-premiership champion, this year's Peter Crimmins medallist no less, in a bid to stay immediately relevant.

I hope we don't learn too much from them. In fact I hope it comes back to bite them.

[saintsRrising]

Well so far it is in Smitch for Titch, out 14, out Hill and in Vickery.

Long-term Titch has many more years over Mitch though and so that makes sense.

So purely in terms of 2017 there is no net improvement. Lack of pace was a big issue for them in 2016 and this is now worse. Vickery will be a better forward target though than Ben or Ceglar.

[saintbrat]

Now Lewis unhappy at possible trade to Melbourne falling through--- is there something fishy happening at hawthorn.

not necessarily all happy ... many commentators saying the resigning of the 4 veterans made it very difficult to- 're-tool'

NAB AFL Trade Radio ‏@traderadio
- Clarkson meets Lewis
- Lewis approaches Melb
- Lewis, Melb agree
- Hawks backflip
- Hawks damage control
Podcast:

[saintbrat]

3AW Sports Today ‏@3AWSportsToday
Dwayne Russell: "North Melbourne's mid season honesty with their veterans isn't looking so bad compared to this possible Hawthorn storm"

commentators certainly suggestion Hawthorn have not handled this well

2 different one have suggested clarko has had same conversation with both Mitchell and lewis and when mitchell option seemed a goer he then began backpeddling on lewis

[Johnny Member]

I posted this a few weeks ago in another thread, and it's clearly even more relevant now. Particular in a thread that has clearly been sucked in by the hype surrounding this mythical 'Hawthorn culture'.......



This is going to come as a rude shock to the adoring media - but Hawthorn are digging themselves a huge hole that they will wallow in for some time.

It always surprises me how seemingly intelligent people that report on football for a living, can be so short sighted and have such short memories about how the game works.

Football clubs do not have cultures.

Football clubs do not make decisions.

People within those clubs make decisions. And these people move on eventually.


Hawthorn are where they are, because they fluked getting a great coach - with some serious flaws, and got some perfect support around him. The stars aligned. It happens sometimes - but there's no science to it.

They also have one of the greatest leadership groups ever to play the game. Probably the best. Hodge, Mitchell, Roughead, Franklin, Lewis and others all came to the club at the same time and built a freak team. They've been so good at it, that they've managed to bring others in consistently and flourish.

Burgoyne, Hale, Gibson, Gunstan followed by Lake, McEvoy, Frawley etc.

This is not a Hawthorn thing. It's a people thing. The moment these leaders move on, s*** changes almost immediately. Board members move on, coaches move on, players move on. When this happens, the mythical 'club culture' goes with them.

New people in those roles, make new decisions.


If Hawthorn keep trading out draft picks for players, they're in serious strife in the medium-long term. Ditto Geelong. What Geelong did this pre-season will hurt for years in the medium-long term.

These clubs have fallen for their own publicity.



Hawthorn are not some super power. They are a club, that hit the big time with the right people in the right roles at the right time. There is no recipe for getting it right. If there was, everyone would do it every year. Hawthorn, as per above hit a freak era where people at the club worked incredibly well together.

Now that these people are no longer there, look at what has happened - almost instantaneously.

[Johnny Member]

And FWIW, Tom Mitchell may well be incredibly overrated.

I mean really, with a midfield led by Jack, Hannebury, Kennedy and Parker - the role of 5th rotating mid isn't exactly the toughest gig in football. When he's at Hawthorn and is the main guy targeted by the opposition each week, his physical limitations may well become a problem.

I wonder if he'd have been so keen to get there if he knew Mitchell and Lewis would be gone by the time he arrived?

[sunsaint]

people looking for a negative will usually find one
the rug was never pulled out from under Sam Mitchell and you wont have the disappointed sad face news conferences like you did with harvey & north
How long has he been on a year to year contract? the hawks free up salary cap, Mitchell gets a last year bonus to his retirement fund and a coaching role afterwards
a win for both clubs and player
as for Lewis - who knows it may well have come down to money - and they now might have more in the kitty - or he may be in the picture for a trade to GCS
I would wait till all is complete but so far they look like they are out in front trade wise

[Con Gorozidis]

Make no mistake. This is a WIN for us!

Now Tony and team - time to swing in to action and do your research on pick 23 and 36.

Wowee.

[Sainternist]

Make no mistake. This is a HUGE win for us!

Absolutely! Laying down the foundations to land a big fish at the end of next year.

Thanks Hawthorn!

I'm sensing the Hawks will be on the slide next year.

[Con Gorozidis]

Make no mistake. This is a HUGE win for us!

Absolutely! Laying down the foundations to land a big fish at the end of next year.

Thanks Hawthorn!

I'm sensing the Hawks will be on the slide next year.

We have the rod. We have the bait!

[dragit]

An added incentive for us to smash Hawthorn too.

[IanRush]

Now Lewis unhappy at possible trade to Melbourne falling through--- is there something fishy happening at hawthorn.

not necessarily all happy ... many commentators saying the resigning of the 4 veterans made it very difficult to- 're-tool'

NAB AFL Trade Radio ‏@traderadio
- Clarkson meets Lewis
- Lewis approaches Melb
- Lewis, Melb agree
- Hawks backflip
- Hawks damage control
Podcast:

Roughead, he's the silent player here, in the sense of "I don't think Roughead will play again."

No one is discussing Roughead. But like you, I smell a rat too.

[SMS]

Oh the irony!!!!

Lol!!!

[sunsaint]

And FWIW, Tom Mitchell may well be incredibly overrated.

and clearly three GF's in a row is grossly over-rated
amateur hour hacks at the family club

[Johnny Member]

And FWIW, Tom Mitchell may well be incredibly overrated.

and clearly three GF's in a row is grossly over-rated
amateur hour hacks at the family club

Ridiculous and poorly thought out retort.


Please try again.

[samuraisaint]

Well so far it is in Smitch for Titch, out 14, out Hill and in Vickery.

Long-term Titch has many more years over Mitch though and so that makes sense.

So purely in terms of 2017 there is no net improvement. Lack of pace was a big issue for them in 2016 and this is now worse. Vickery will be a better forward target though than Ben or Ceglar.

I am wondering if Lewis goes as well whether they will be able to tread water and play finals again, or whether they'll have a shocker and we'll get pick #5 or something similar...

[dragit]

This is one of Damo's best... Can we make it a sticky?

[saintsRrising]

They are clever buggers those Hawks.

Actually I reckon it is a sign that cracks are appearing and that the Hawks are about to slide.
Mitchell squeezed out. Bruest cracking it and stating that he will not be traded. Other Hawks will know that they are all on the chopping block.

Wow.....more cracks as Lewis clearly pissed, and value wise the Saints just reemed them as Hawks desperate to get pick 10.

[White Winmar]

Well, it looks like we've learned very well indeed. The apprentice just trumped the master.

[saintspremiers]

Well, it looks like we've learned very well indeed. The apprentice just trumped the master.

Oh well, until we win a flag the Hawks fans can spend the off season watching any of their 4 flags since 2008.

I'll stay cautiously optimistic until it's our time. We've been burnt too many times.

[Bluthy]

I admire the hawks on this deal. They are going for JOM hard and taking the risks and future sacrifices to make it happen. They are ballsy as hell. If they can get JOM on the park (and his knee is pretty functional) with Mitchell, Vickery will enjoy the strong hawks system after years of Hardwicks confusing crap, Roughie maybe back and some of their youngsters coming on, they could be a force again. Clarkson is a ruthless bastard in pursuit of flags. No guts no glory and hawks have shown all the guts again rebuilding their team on the fly.