Saintsational Fan Forum - A passionate community of St Kilda Football Club fans discussing news, history, players, trade rumours, results, AFL stats and more.
saintjake wrote:If anyone tuned in to Triple M this morning, they had Ian Prendergast on the phone and Ed put him on blast.
Said repeatedly that the manager has completely stitched the Saints up and he is outraged.
Ed, Mick and Darce all praised the Saints for how they've handled it. But none were buying what Prendergast was selling.
Fair to say that if this was Collingwood in our position Ed would be ripping skulls apart.
Floated the idea that maybe it's time for the AFL to stop supporting the AFLPA. Because basically the clubs are paying for the AFLPA to do everything in their power to hurt the clubs.
Said if they players want a union they should fund it themselves and that maybe it's "time for the empire to strike back" meaning the clubs take on the AFLPA.
Never heard Ed go so strongly on a situation that affected a team that wasn't the Pies, but he's always stood for the integrity of the game so it was good to hear him voice such strong opinions.
Wish i'd listened to it.
They seriously have no credibility and the way they have handled this is appalling.
I understand that it is the manager and AFLPA's responsibility to get the best deal for the player but, there is a big picture and if you deal dishonestly to secure one deal it may affect your ability to get future deals done.
'It has since emerged that St Kilda would not have recruited Carlisle had it known of his drug use. Further antagonism between the club and the AFLPA has emerged with the Saints now moving to not only strip Carlisle's marketing money but also various other components of the four-year deal estimated at about $2.4 million with an option for a fifth season."
All those "cool" posters on here who reckoned that Jake snorting a line of coke was no big deal, The St Kilda football club does not agree with you.
Constantly said in the interview that it was "the perfect storm" and that there unfortunately wasn't anytime to inform the saints...
There was another day left of the trade period.
Surely they owed a duty of care to the Saints to say.. "Hey, wait a second, we've just discovered something that we have to tell you first"
We've been sold damaged goods. It's like buying a house with termites. If you know your house has termites, you have to inform potential buyers.
I don't know why the club isn't making more noise about this.
If this was Collingwood they'd be making the AFL give them pick 5 as compensation and then every other pick gets bumped down a spot.
saintjake wrote:Constantly said in the interview that it was "the perfect storm" and that there unfortunately wasn't anytime to inform the saints...
There was another day left of the trade period.
Surely they owed a duty of care to the Saints to say.. "Hey, wait a second, we've just discovered something that we have to tell you first"
We've been sold damaged goods. It's like buying a house with termites. If you know your house has termites, you have to inform potential buyers.
I don't know why the club isn't making more noise about this.
If this was Collingwood they'd be making the AFL give them pick 5 as compensation and then every other pick gets bumped down a spot.
The Saints have been duded, the AFLPA have been questionable over the last few years, their silence on the essendon drug case was farcical.
If I was in the Saints shoes, I’d look at suing either the AFLPA, McConville of the AFL itself. Carlisle signed 2pm Wed 21-10 and by 7pm Wed 21-10, Chanel 9 had video of him?
That stinks to high heaven, this is not ‘unfortunate timing’ this is a stitch-up.
USELESS FACT: The WADA case against Essendon (in Sydney as well) is exactly 10 years to the day that Australia qualified for the 2006 FIFA World Cup.
saintjake wrote:Constantly said in the interview that it was "the perfect storm" and that there unfortunately wasn't anytime to inform the saints...
There was another day left of the trade period.
Surely they owed a duty of care to the Saints to say.. "Hey, wait a second, we've just discovered something that we have to tell you first"
We've been sold damaged goods. It's like buying a house with termites. If you know your house has termites, you have to inform potential buyers.
I don't know why the club isn't making more noise about this.
If this was Collingwood they'd be making the AFL give them pick 5 as compensation and then every other pick gets bumped down a spot.
The Saints have been duded, the AFLPA have been questionable over the last few years, their silence on the essendon drug case was farcical.
If I was in the Saints shoes, I’d look at suing either the AFLPA, McConville of the AFL itself. Carlisle signed 2pm Wed 21-10 and by 7pm Wed 21-10, Chanel 9 had video of him?
That stinks to high heaven, this is not ‘unfortunate timing’ this is a stitch-up.
You do like suing don't you. Luckily our club wont be that stupid.
Much kudos and thanks to Eddie and Luke Darcy for applying the torch to Prendergast and McLachlan.
Bit gutless of AFLPA to provide its legal counsel as spokesperson, rather than its CEO, who would have
known much more of the timing of how events played out.
Prendergast showing minimal contrition, marking himself as a flog. Sorry, make that a highly-paid legal flog.
Eddie quite rightly taking the fight up to the AFLPA on behalf of ALL clubs, because he can see that
such a stitch-up will happen again, maybe to the Pies, unless the behaviours/regulations around
player trading are dramatically improved.
I wonder if the Saints public silence on 'punishment' is simply trying to force the AFL into 'punishing Carlisle and then strengthening any case we had for 'compensation' from the AFL over this whole unseemly farce?
borderbarry wrote:In the meantime Essendon have our picks 5 and 24. Would the situation be any different if Essendon knew before the trade was finalised?
Eddie says in this morning's rant that Essendon did know....
As much as I hate them, the Bombers don't have a duty to us to disclose anything. It would be up to Jake and his management. If I resign from my job, it's not up to that employer to ring my future employer and tell them I'm a dud. They would just be happy to be rid of me.
borderbarry wrote:In the meantime Essendon have our picks 5 and 24. Would the situation be any different if Essendon knew before the trade was finalised?
Eddie says in this morning's rant that Essendon did know....
As much as I hate them, the Bombers don't have a duty to us to disclose anything. It would be up to Jake and his management. If I resign from my job, it's not up to that employer to ring my future employer and tell them I'm a dud. They would just be happy to be rid of me.
It's a murky space the 'reference' space.
You can be sued these days for giving 'unfair' ones these days, either way.
So technically, if Essendon told us anything, Carlisle could sue them for costing him a job.
A lot of companies have a 'no reference' policy in place for that very reason.
The only positive out of it is that the non-disclosure by McConville (in which the AFLPA was complicit) should pretty much make the original contract null and void.
As I understand it, the contract has been or will be renegotiated to be much more performance-based. Carlisle will still be able to earn good money, but he will have to play out of his skin.
borderbarry wrote:In the meantime Essendon have our picks 5 and 24. Would the situation be any different if Essendon knew before the trade was finalised?
Eddie says in this morning's rant that Essendon did know....
As much as I hate them, the Bombers don't have a duty to us to disclose anything. It would be up to Jake and his management. If I resign from my job, it's not up to that employer to ring my future employer and tell them I'm a dud. They would just be happy to be rid of me.
Not if your new employer is actually bargaining directly with your old employer and offering them payment for you.
"The starting point of all achievement is desire. "
bigcarl wrote:The only positive out of it is that the non-disclosure by McConville (in which the AFLPA was complicit) should pretty much make the original contract null and void.
As I understand it, the contract has been or will be renegotiated to be much more performance-based. Carlisle will still be able to earn good money, but he will have to play out of his skin.
Not from what was said today. The only part that will not exist anymore is the promotional part. The rest of the contract sounds like there wont be much or alteration. Still saves a bit though.
Well we should have screwed them on it over the non-disclosure. I think we'd have had a pretty sound case as the deal would not have gone through had we known.
I mean how can you possibly bring someone in as one of the highest paid on the list after what has happened.
bigcarl wrote:Well we should have screwed them on it over the non-disclosure. I think we'd have had a pretty sound case as the deal would not have gone through had we known.
I mean how can you possibly bring someone in as one of the highest paid on the list after what has happened.
You can't but as we know the AFL is a law unto itself. The most appropriate course of action would be to annul the trade...
however that will not happen.
Therefore the AFL will make it worth our while with sweeteners like more funding for Moorabbin, continued good draws like we got for next year (a few more Friday nights thrown in), or a quiet word to clubs that they cant bid for Rice (would never be said of course and would be pretty easy to do as Rice is not a top 5 pick for example).
The AFL will continue to support the Saints as they have over the past couple of years.
But discount any thought of PP's or compo picks for Carlisle
bigcarl wrote:Well we should have screwed them on it over the non-disclosure. I think we'd have had a pretty sound case as the deal would not have gone through had we known.
I mean how can you possibly bring someone in as one of the highest paid on the list after what has happened.
You can't but as we know the AFL is a law unto itself. The most appropriate course of action would be to annul the trade...
however that will not happen.
Therefore the AFL will make it worth our while with sweeteners like more funding for Moorabbin, continued good draws like we got for next year (a few more Friday nights thrown in), or a quiet word to clubs that they cant bid for Rice (would never be said of course and would be pretty easy to do as Rice is not a top 5 pick for example).
The AFL will continue to support the Saints as they have over the past couple of years.
But discount any thought of PP's or compo picks for Carlisle
Well with Finnis in charge we are an AFL run club to start with. If what you're saying holds firm it may compensate us trading away those picks. And that marketing money that Jake was going to get can now go to a FA or big trade next year.
i am Melbourne Skies - sometimes Blue Skies, Grey Skies, even Partly Cloudy Skies.
I am seeing some positives in this tragedy.
Fact 1- Carlisle as a footballer is a valuable commodity. We know that. 198 cm Key position player with talent heading into their prime don't fall off trees.
We know Worsfold tried to change his mind the minute he signed at the bombers and asked him to stay. That's with all the things published regarding Carlisle and what he had said on the ground about the club ie " Get me out of here", " This club is f#cked" etc.
We also know the Hawks wanted him.
Fact 2- We will save money on his contract.
Fact 3- he has navigated his way through approximately 6 years in the AFL system without much problem. 85 games and you have not heard much about him being off the rails. I doubt this will change moving forward.
Assumption - He had a massive contract to protect and he is walking into the Saints with the tail between his legs with no credits left.
Pre video he may have swaggered in as a star recruit but he has no such luxury now. Eyes will be on him and he will be closely monitored.
Whereas before he may have struck some friendships with some of the younger players and led them astray I don't see that happening now.
We know he is a drug user and he won't be given much rope.
All in all once the football starts and Carlisle settles down he will be fine.
It's well documented they say in AFL circles someone else in our club has had issues with sporadic drug use so our culture at the moment can pull him into line.
You can't but as we know the AFL is a law unto itself. The most appropriate course of action would be to annul the trade...
however that will not happen.
Therefore the AFL will make it worth our while with sweeteners like more funding for Moorabbin, continued good draws like we got for next year (a few more Friday nights thrown in), or a quiet word to clubs that they cant bid for Rice (would never be said of course and would be pretty easy to do as Rice is not a top 5 pick for example).
The AFL will continue to support the Saints as they have over the past couple of years.
But discount any thought of PP's or compo picks for Carlisle
The AFL might even throw in a free Premiership Cup as well
There are a few people pointing fingers in every direction to find blame
Two parties - Jake & and St.kilda
Jake did the dirty on us but if the Saints dont have mandatory built in "Milne/Lovett" clause in all signings to cover unsavoury off-field behavior and a similar no drugs clause then the problem lies with us.
Jake is a 100% idiot - he could have said it was a bex mixed with caffeine powder and be done with it - but regardless the saints went all guns blazing, played our cards way to early and paid a very high pick 5 price. SO the way I see it the so called "no-morons" policy went out the door when we shafted McEvoy.
Vazelos wrote:
Fact 3- he has navigated his way through approximately 6 years in the AFL system without much problem. 85 games and you have not heard much about him being off the rails. I doubt this will change moving forward.
.
This is also why I have reserved my judgment on him as well - the players know who the party boys are & clubs research their targets un-mercilessly
If he had an existing drug problem they club must have considered his ability to out weigh any (if any) problems
eg why we didnt look at Bennell
I hope we do what Hawthorn do when their captain drink drives....nothing....let.him play.
They've taken away a chunk of his pay....now train the house down and play like a gun.
Nuff said.
and would be pretty easy to do as Rice is not a top 5 pick for example).
