Jack Billings

[Bluthy]

I believe he'll end up as a bona fide midfielder. All the talk of his underage football said he 's a good mark for his size. Hopefully that means he'll be able to push forward and be dangerous. Primarily though I think he'll be our new Dal Santo. Silky smooth and a great user of the ball.

My issue with this is we don't know what Billings endurance is like. He actually seems the more explosive type who may play on the ball a bit for impact and variety but tend not to be full time midfielders. Before I got sucked onto the Petracca bandwagon ("one in a generation player") my concern with him was he was a half-forward everyone kept assuring would become midfielder as if its like putting on new socks. But after he hired a running coach, blew up at training and then did an ACL there are serious doubts about his ability to be that gun midfielder everyone said he would walk into because its just not what he is (could still be a brilliant forward with a bit of on ball of course) .

Genuine midfielders tend to be born not made. They are rare beasts. They pop out of their mums wombs and go hunting for the sherrin in the delivery room on sheer instinct. They have the weirdest genetics - running all day, getting to contests after contest and when they get there still have the energy to work even harder burrowing in after the footy but also have the big body and irrational hunger to smash in. And when they get the footy they have even more energy and the instinct and smarts to dish it out in congested packs. Its what worries me when everyone raves about Newnes, Webster, Murdoch "becoming on ballers" as if it just involves flipping a switch. Yes you can rotate players through the centre square for variety - Hawthorn do it well - but the guys who get it done when it matters (Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis) are the genuine midfielders with ball hunting in their blood. If we want more brilliant on ballers then we should recruit a genuine mid with a top pick.

I think we really need to see just what Billings is like when he has to cover the whole ground all game. Maybe he will turn out Akermanis like with that mixture of explosion and endurance - that will be ideal. But otherwise we end up with a brilliant, creative goal scoring half-forward who could still win a Grand final off his own boot.

[Old Mate]

I believe he'll end up as a bona fide midfielder. All the talk of his underage football said he 's a good mark for his size. Hopefully that means he'll be able to push forward and be dangerous. Primarily though I think he'll be our new Dal Santo. Silky smooth and a great user of the ball.

My issue with this is we don't know what Billings endurance is like. He actually seems the more explosive type who may play on the ball a bit for impact and variety but tend not to be full time midfielders. Before I got sucked onto the Petracca bandwagon ("one in a generation player") my concern with him was he was a half-forward everyone kept assuring would become midfielder as if its like putting on new socks. But after he hired a running coach, blew up at training and then did an ACL there are serious doubts about his ability to be that gun midfielder everyone said he would walk into because its just not what he is (could still be a brilliant forward with a bit of on ball of course) .

Genuine midfielders tend to be born not made. They are rare beasts. They pop out of their mums wombs and go hunting for the sherrin in the delivery room on sheer instinct. They have the weirdest genetics - running all day, getting to contests after contest and when they get there still have the energy to work even harder burrowing in after the footy but also have the big body and irrational hunger to smash in. And when they get the footy they have even more energy and the instinct and smarts to dish it out in congested packs. Its what worries me when everyone raves about Newnes, Webster, Murdoch "becoming on ballers" as if it just involves flipping a switch. Yes you can rotate players through the centre square for variety - Hawthorn do it well - but the guys who get it done when it matters (Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis) are the genuine midfielders with ball hunting in their blood. If we want more brilliant on ballers then we should recruit a genuine mid with a top pick.

I think we really need to see just what Billings is like when he has to cover the whole ground all game. Maybe he will turn out Akermanis like with that mixture of explosion and endurance - that will be ideal. But otherwise we end up with a brilliant, creative goal scoring half-forward who could still win a Grand final off his own boot.

Bluthy, in today's footy in the midfield you have extractors and receivers and both are equally important. We have plenty of the former and not many of the latter. Billings is definitely that midfield receiver we are craving for. He has the rare ability to see the play unfold and find position and create and execute with sublime skill. He will be a midfielder - perhaps not the type of midfielder you have in mind.

[Bluthy]

I believe he'll end up as a bona fide midfielder. All the talk of his underage football said he 's a good mark for his size. Hopefully that means he'll be able to push forward and be dangerous. Primarily though I think he'll be our new Dal Santo. Silky smooth and a great user of the ball.

My issue with this is we don't know what Billings endurance is like. He actually seems the more explosive type who may play on the ball a bit for impact and variety but tend not to be full time midfielders. Before I got sucked onto the Petracca bandwagon ("one in a generation player") my concern with him was he was a half-forward everyone kept assuring would become midfielder as if its like putting on new socks. But after he hired a running coach, blew up at training and then did an ACL there are serious doubts about his ability to be that gun midfielder everyone said he would walk into because its just not what he is (could still be a brilliant forward with a bit of on ball of course) .

Genuine midfielders tend to be born not made. They are rare beasts. They pop out of their mums wombs and go hunting for the sherrin in the delivery room on sheer instinct. They have the weirdest genetics - running all day, getting to contests after contest and when they get there still have the energy to work even harder burrowing in after the footy but also have the big body and irrational hunger to smash in. And when they get the footy they have even more energy and the instinct and smarts to dish it out in congested packs. Its what worries me when everyone raves about Newnes, Webster, Murdoch "becoming on ballers" as if it just involves flipping a switch. Yes you can rotate players through the centre square for variety - Hawthorn do it well - but the guys who get it done when it matters (Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis) are the genuine midfielders with ball hunting in their blood. If we want more brilliant on ballers then we should recruit a genuine mid with a top pick.

I think we really need to see just what Billings is like when he has to cover the whole ground all game. Maybe he will turn out Akermanis like with that mixture of explosion and endurance - that will be ideal. But otherwise we end up with a brilliant, creative goal scoring half-forward who could still win a Grand final off his own boot.

Bluthy, in today's footy in the midfield you have extractors and receivers and both are equally important. We have plenty of the former and not many of the latter. Billings is definitely that midfield receiver we are craving for. He has the rare ability to see the play unfold and find position and create and execute with sublime skill. He will be a midfielder - perhaps not the type of midfielder you have in mind.

And how the godamn hell do you know he is DEFINTELY that midfield receiver Matey?? Everyone is so c**k damn sure of everything on the scantist of information. He's been playing from a forward flank. We don't know he can cover the ground yet Matey. Keep an open mind and look at the facts rather than some vision you have in your head. Look at the fabled once in a generation midfield general Petracca. People just go off on head trips of what they fantasise about instead of considering reality. I want to see them experiment with him a bit this year - midfield, even playing as a defensive sweeper. The more facets he has to his game the better so he won't get tagged out of big games like Dal.

So how do you know what his endurance is like Matey? I really want to know what inside info you have.

[Saintberra]

I believe he'll end up as a bona fide midfielder. All the talk of his underage football said he 's a good mark for his size. Hopefully that means he'll be able to push forward and be dangerous. Primarily though I think he'll be our new Dal Santo. Silky smooth and a great user of the ball.

My issue with this is we don't know what Billings endurance is like. He actually seems the more explosive type who may play on the ball a bit for impact and variety but tend not to be full time midfielders. Before I got sucked onto the Petracca bandwagon ("one in a generation player") my concern with him was he was a half-forward everyone kept assuring would become midfielder as if its like putting on new socks. But after he hired a running coach, blew up at training and then did an ACL there are serious doubts about his ability to be that gun midfielder everyone said he would walk into because its just not what he is (could still be a brilliant forward with a bit of on ball of course) .

Genuine midfielders tend to be born not made. They are rare beasts. They pop out of their mums wombs and go hunting for the sherrin in the delivery room on sheer instinct. They have the weirdest genetics - running all day, getting to contests after contest and when they get there still have the energy to work even harder burrowing in after the footy but also have the big body and irrational hunger to smash in. And when they get the footy they have even more energy and the instinct and smarts to dish it out in congested packs. Its what worries me when everyone raves about Newnes, Webster, Murdoch "becoming on ballers" as if it just involves flipping a switch. Yes you can rotate players through the centre square for variety - Hawthorn do it well - but the guys who get it done when it matters (Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis) are the genuine midfielders with ball hunting in their blood. If we want more brilliant on ballers then we should recruit a genuine mid with a top pick.

I think we really need to see just what Billings is like when he has to cover the whole ground all game. Maybe he will turn out Akermanis like with that mixture of explosion and endurance - that will be ideal. But otherwise we end up with a brilliant, creative goal scoring half-forward who could still win a Grand final off his own boot.

Bluthy, in today's footy in the midfield you have extractors and receivers and both are equally important. We have plenty of the former and not many of the latter. Billings is definitely that midfield receiver we are craving for. He has the rare ability to see the play unfold and find position and create and execute with sublime skill. He will be a midfielder - perhaps not the type of midfielder you have in mind.

And how the godamn hell do you know he is DEFINTELY that midfield receiver Matey?? Everyone is so c**k damn sure of everything on the scantist of information. He's been playing from a forward flank. We don't know he can cover the ground yet Matey. Keep an open mind and look at the facts rather than some vision you have in your head. Look at the fabled once in a generation midfield general Petracca. People just go off on head trips of what they fantasise about instead of considering reality. I want to see them experiment with him a bit this year - midfield, even playing as a defensive sweeper. The more facets he has to his game the better so he won't get tagged out of big games like Dal.

So how do you know what his endurance is like Matey? I really want to know what inside info you have.

Bluthy, what Old Mate is trying to get at, is, that there isn't only amazing midfielders that are in an under midfielders.

You are so caught up on good midfielders only being those that "hunt(ing) for the sherrin in the delivery room on sheer instinct" and "work even harder burrowing in after the footy but also have the big body and irrational hunger to smash in. And when they get the footy they have even more energy and the instinct and smarts to dish it out in congested packs."

Billings will be that play that will receive the ball, receiving it on the outside of the packs.

I'm not questioning whether he's going to be the next Brownlow medalist or not, I'm just saying that he has the skill set and the potential to become an A grade midfielder without having to be an in-and-under player.

[Old Mate]

Lol Bluthy you've lost the plot. Not even going to bother responding to your dribble.

[Bluthy]

I believe he'll end up as a bona fide midfielder. All the talk of his underage football said he 's a good mark for his size. Hopefully that means he'll be able to push forward and be dangerous. Primarily though I think he'll be our new Dal Santo. Silky smooth and a great user of the ball.

My issue with this is we don't know what Billings endurance is like. He actually seems the more explosive type who may play on the ball a bit for impact and variety but tend not to be full time midfielders. Before I got sucked onto the Petracca bandwagon ("one in a generation player") my concern with him was he was a half-forward everyone kept assuring would become midfielder as if its like putting on new socks. But after he hired a running coach, blew up at training and then did an ACL there are serious doubts about his ability to be that gun midfielder everyone said he would walk into because its just not what he is (could still be a brilliant forward with a bit of on ball of course) .

Genuine midfielders tend to be born not made. They are rare beasts. They pop out of their mums wombs and go hunting for the sherrin in the delivery room on sheer instinct. They have the weirdest genetics - running all day, getting to contests after contest and when they get there still have the energy to work even harder burrowing in after the footy but also have the big body and irrational hunger to smash in. And when they get the footy they have even more energy and the instinct and smarts to dish it out in congested packs. Its what worries me when everyone raves about Newnes, Webster, Murdoch "becoming on ballers" as if it just involves flipping a switch. Yes you can rotate players through the centre square for variety - Hawthorn do it well - but the guys who get it done when it matters (Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis) are the genuine midfielders with ball hunting in their blood. If we want more brilliant on ballers then we should recruit a genuine mid with a top pick.

I think we really need to see just what Billings is like when he has to cover the whole ground all game. Maybe he will turn out Akermanis like with that mixture of explosion and endurance - that will be ideal. But otherwise we end up with a brilliant, creative goal scoring half-forward who could still win a Grand final off his own boot.

Bluthy, in today's footy in the midfield you have extractors and receivers and both are equally important. We have plenty of the former and not many of the latter. Billings is definitely that midfield receiver we are craving for. He has the rare ability to see the play unfold and find position and create and execute with sublime skill. He will be a midfielder - perhaps not the type of midfielder you have in mind.

And how the godamn hell do you know he is DEFINTELY that midfield receiver Matey?? Everyone is so c**k damn sure of everything on the scantist of information. He's been playing from a forward flank. We don't know he can cover the ground yet Matey. Keep an open mind and look at the facts rather than some vision you have in your head. Look at the fabled once in a generation midfield general Petracca. People just go off on head trips of what they fantasise about instead of considering reality. I want to see them experiment with him a bit this year - midfield, even playing as a defensive sweeper. The more facets he has to his game the better so he won't get tagged out of big games like Dal.

So how do you know what his endurance is like Matey? I really want to know what inside info you have.

Bluthy, what Old Mate is trying to get at, is, that there isn't only amazing midfielders that are in an under midfielders.

You are so caught up on good midfielders only being those that "hunt(ing) for the sherrin in the delivery room on sheer instinct" and "work even harder burrowing in after the footy but also have the big body and irrational hunger to smash in. And when they get the footy they have even more energy and the instinct and smarts to dish it out in congested packs."

Billings will be that play that will receive the ball, receiving it on the outside of the packs.

I'm not questioning whether he's going to be the next Brownlow medalist or not, I'm just saying that he has the skill set and the potential to become an A grade midfielder without having to be an in-and-under player.

And I'm telling you that what you are describing - a player designed to "receive the ball" - is a dinosaur in this game now. Clarkson, Longmire and the Scotts lick their lips when they see this player on the oppo list for a prelim . Who were the players who rose above to almost make the difference in the grannies - Lenny and Goddard - players who could genuinely win their own hard ball and THEN do stuff with it. Richo won't make the mistake you guys are - Billings will be taught to hunt his own footy, in fact will be forced to because outside Armo we have NO, zero, none, proven extractors. We got smashed in clearances last year WITH Lenny. It could actually speed up Jumping Jack flash's (watching Rolling Stones vid and that came on and fits - can we nickname him Jumpin Jack Flash?) development. And Dunny needs to learn to kick goals and McCartin needs to be able to push higher up the ground than just FF and Templeton needs to learn how to link up play from defence to attack and Acres needs to be a sweeper and on baller and Lonie needs to be able to be an explosive mid and run down forward and McKenzie needs to be a winger and a half back flanker and Goddard needs to be swingman. We can't be as predictable and one dimensional as were previously (kick it to Roo) if we want to win that ultimate fucker at our next assault

[saintbob]

Does anyone else think McCartin looks like Goofy? Or has this been discussed?

Paddy "Goofy" McCartin

Image from http://www.hdwallpapersos.com/wp-conten ... s-Free.jpg.

I agree, I posted this back in December.

[Con Gorozidis]

Does anyone else think McCartin looks like Goofy? Or has this been discussed?

It hasnt been discussed. I am not sure what you mean because I dont know what Goofy looks like so maybe you can explain what you mean or if you can provide us with a picture of Goofy it might help us understand where you are coming from?

Anyway in the meantime here is a photo of McCartin taken just after his name was called out at the draft.

[Con Gorozidis]

If Billings ends up as good as Dal Ill be very very happy indeed.
I think he will always be judged a bit harshly because it seems both the Bont and Aish are going to be guns.

[dragit]

And I'm telling you that what you are describing - a player designed to "receive the ball" - is a dinosaur in this game now. Clarkson, Longmire and the Scotts lick their lips when they see this player on the oppo list for a prelim

A dinosaur concept is that all of your mids will be in & under clearance machines… right up there with "kick it long down the guts".

I'm not sure what you've been watching - Clarkson, Longmire & the Scotts (and all coaches) use receiving mids to generate their attacks.

Burgoyne, Hill, Smith, Shiels, Breust, Rioli - these guys perfectly compliment the inside mids.

In the end it's this type of player we were missing when we desperately recruited Peake & Lovett.

Winning the ball is important, but it's no good if you can't effectively retain possession.

[Old Mate]

And I'm telling you that what you are describing - a player designed to "receive the ball" - is a dinosaur in this game now. Clarkson, Longmire and the Scotts lick their lips when they see this player on the oppo list for a prelim

A dinosaur concept is that all of your mids will be in & under clearance machines… right up there with "kick it long down the guts".

I'm not sure what you've been watching - Clarkson, Longmire & the Scotts (and all coaches) use receiving mids to generate their attacks.

Burgoyne, Hill, Smith, Shiels, Breust, Rioli - these guys perfectly compliment the inside mids.

In the end it's this type of player we were missing when we desperately recruited Peake & Lovett.

Winning the ball is important, but it's no good if you can't effectively retain possession.

Exactly.

I can see where Bluthy is getting confused. He's saying players can no longer be one dimension, must be able to play multiple positions and have many strings to their bow. I think we all agree there. Well, off course Billings will need to win his own ball (he's actually pretty good 1v1) but that doesn't mean he primarily becomes an inside mid. He will always be the type of player the coach wants in space and not at the bottom of a pack. The opposition would love nothing more than for Billings to be at the bottom of the packs instead of being in space and delivering onto Paddy's tit. It's exactly why guys like Dal Santo and Goddard play a lot minutes on a wing or flank. Both are elite and creative disposers of the footy.

[gringo]

And I'm telling you that what you are describing - a player designed to "receive the ball" - is a dinosaur in this game now. Clarkson, Longmire and the Scotts lick their lips when they see this player on the oppo list for a prelim

A dinosaur concept is that all of your mids will be in & under clearance machines… right up there with "kick it long down the guts".

I'm not sure what you've been watching - Clarkson, Longmire & the Scotts (and all coaches) use receiving mids to generate their attacks.

Burgoyne, Hill, Smith, Shiels, Breust, Rioli - these guys perfectly compliment the inside mids.

In the end it's this type of player we were missing when we desperately recruited Peake & Lovett.

Winning the ball is important, but it's no good if you can't effectively retain possession.

Exactly.

I can see where Bluthy is getting confused. He's saying players can no longer be one dimension, must be able to play multiple positions and have many strings to their bow. I think we all agree there. Well, off course Billings will need to win his own ball (he's actually pretty good 1v1) but that doesn't mean he primarily becomes an inside mid. He will always be the type of player the coach wants in space and not at the bottom of a pack. The opposition would love nothing more than for Billings to be at the bottom of the packs instead of being in space and delivering onto Paddy's tit. It's exactly why guys like Dal Santo and Goddard play a lot minutes on a wing or flank. Both are elite and creative disposers of the footy.

At the open training Billings was playing in a mid field group with Eli, Dunstan and a group of about another 6 but can't remember who. He seemed to be sitting just off the pack and as it came rolling out he seemed to get on the end of a lot of ball. He's very capable of winning the ball and was very much like Dal Santo in his ability to get it and set up forward thrusts with what looked like casual ease. He's a very natural and classy player. I think he will transition into a Jack steven style mid long term but set up as a wingman with times sitting forward when he looks like he's tiring as the season rolls on in 2015. Last year he seemed more flank than pocket anyway and he's really just moving slightly further up. Flankers and Wingmen are pretty much expected to do the same work these days with no one just sitting waiting for the ball to come in except often one or two forwards.

[Old Mate]

At the open training Billings was playing in a mid field group with Eli, Dunstan and a group of about another 6 but can't remember who. He seemed to be sitting just off the pack and as it came rolling out he seemed to get on the end of a lot of ball. He's very capable of winning the ball and was very much like Dal Santo in his ability to get it and set up forward thrusts with what looked like casual ease. He's a very natural and classy player. I think he will transition into a Jack steven style mid long term but set up as a wingman with times sitting forward when he looks like he's tiring as the season rolls on in 2015. Last year he seemed more flank than pocket anyway and he's really just moving slightly further up. Flankers and Wingmen are pretty much expected to do the same work these days with no one just sitting waiting for the ball to come in except often one or two forwards.

A lot of Dal Santo about Billings but Billings the better aerialist and natural goal kicker. Saying that, if Jack becomes as good as Dal we've had a major win and I won't be unhappy in the slightest.

Players capable of playing midfield and being dangerous when put forward is the new black. Wingard, Robbie Gray, Dustin Martin, Dangerfield etc. I definitely see Billings being more Robbie Gray than Angus Monfries (one dimension small-medium forward) and being a very good midfield option when required. I think he's wasted purely in the role as a midfielder though. There's nothing that impacts games like goals.

[saint-stu]

And I'm telling you that what you are describing - a player designed to "receive the ball" - is a dinosaur in this game now. Clarkson, Longmire and the Scotts lick their lips when they see this player on the oppo list for a prelim . Who were the players who rose above to almost make the difference in the grannies - Lenny and Goddard - players who could genuinely win their own hard ball and THEN do stuff with it.

Lenny yes, but Goddard? When I watch him in a contest, he's always standing just off the pack waiting for the ball to come out. How often do you see him on his hands and knees?

And I'm not criticising Goddard, but he's a different player to Lenny. Goddard is a great user, Lenny was a great extractor.

If Billings ends up as good as Dal Ill be very very happy indeed.
I think he will always be judged a bit harshly because it seems both the Bont and Aish are going to be guns.

Why do you think Jack doesn't look like a gun? He had a slow start last year due to injury but he had a couple of amazing games across VFL/AFL.

[St Ick]

Before bagging posters about commenting about their knowledge of their endurance Bluthy should probably read the OP and see the comments re this exact issue.

[Con Gorozidis]

If Billings ends up as good as Dal Ill be very very happy indeed.
I think he will always be judged a bit harshly because it seems both the Bont and Aish are going to be guns.

Why do you think Jack doesn't look like a gun? He had a slow start last year due to injury but he had a couple of amazing games across VFL/AFL.

Nah I think hell be very good. I just meant 2013 looks like a super draft.

[bergholt]

2004. The world at our feet. Montagna, Dal on the outside. Hayes and Ball on the inside. Harvey still brilliant, and the X man creating havoc. Rooney, Kosi, Gehrig, and Hamill our forwards - we won 10 games in a row that year, but didn't make the GF.

Actually Joey wasn't good yet, only played a few games that year as a small forward. It was Aussie Jones and Heath Black running through the middle. But your point is still a good one.

[Bluthy]

And I'm telling you that what you are describing - a player designed to "receive the ball" - is a dinosaur in this game now. Clarkson, Longmire and the Scotts lick their lips when they see this player on the oppo list for a prelim

A dinosaur concept is that all of your mids will be in & under clearance machines… right up there with "kick it long down the guts".

I'm not sure what you've been watching - Clarkson, Longmire & the Scotts (and all coaches) use receiving mids to generate their attacks.

Burgoyne, Hill, Smith, Shiels, Breust, Rioli - these guys perfectly compliment the inside mids.

In the end it's this type of player we were missing when we desperately recruited Peake & Lovett.

Winning the ball is important, but it's no good if you can't effectively retain possession.

That's just idiotic paraphrasing Dragit - I said no such things about wanting all clearance machines. Of course you want a range of skills and abilities and players with different strengths. My point is that its vital, and becoming more so that players are as well rounded as possible. By pointing to Hawthorn you prove my point. Mitchell, Hodge and Sewell are both tough ball winners and very good with disposal. Its what makes them so damn hard to stop. Geelong were the same with Ablett, Bartell, Selwood, Chapman. I thought we were always a bit one dimensional - Ball and Hayes inside, Dal and Monty outside and Goddard prob more outside than in. Over time the oppo worked out how to stop the ball getting into the hands of Dal and Monty and that killed a lot of our penetration.

You really think the oppo are going to watch Billings keep getting the ball worked out to him and then cutting them up with his brilliant disposal and jus say "Oh well"? This is the era of absolute professionalism in footy and they will have teams of people working out how to stop him getting it with positioning, tagging, run with, scragging etc. The best way to get better is often to work on your weaknesses rather than your strengths. The more Jack can work on his inside game the more unstoppable he will be. If he's getting tagged and blocked on the outside, then he can crack in to win his own footy. If they leave him alone again then he can position himself a bit more outside to use his disposal skills. Likewise if Jack is getting good posi outside, Dunny can crack in inside and if Jack goes in then Dunny should position to set up the chain to get it out. Its about having a dymanic flux rather than being predictable with Dunny inside, Billings outside.

"Outside mid" is completely old school thinking and I doubt many coaches think along these lines anymore. I like what Dunstan has shown with his ball getting and I've seen some real visionary disposal from him already. Acres looks strong inside but from the little I've seen from can read the play and set things up well so that's a tick. I'm hoping Steven will recover from his foot problems and with the games he played now have the composure and poise to be a bit more damaging with his kicking. If Billings can develop his inside game then he's also getting that all rounder skills set that starts making our midfield look dynamic, varied and with the drafting of a couple more quality mids with total game skills - eventually unstoppable!

[Bluthy]

Before bagging posters about commenting about their knowledge of their endurance Bluthy should probably read the OP and see the comments re this exact issue.

"He came to us obviously as a highly-rated junior, but probably got by on having a lot of skill rather than being a genuine athlete" - from article

Maybe St Ick should take a comprehensive reading class. You know its ok to say "hey this is a bit of an unknown. I'm not sure how things will pan out". I think its brilliant that Billings will be played in the midfield. But lets see how he goes with the brutal running required of an AFL mid. He's already tweaked his hammy. We just don't know how he's going to cope with an on ball role and the marathon they have to run

[plugger66]

And I'm telling you that what you are describing - a player designed to "receive the ball" - is a dinosaur in this game now. Clarkson, Longmire and the Scotts lick their lips when they see this player on the oppo list for a prelim

A dinosaur concept is that all of your mids will be in & under clearance machines… right up there with "kick it long down the guts".

I'm not sure what you've been watching - Clarkson, Longmire & the Scotts (and all coaches) use receiving mids to generate their attacks.

Burgoyne, Hill, Smith, Shiels, Breust, Rioli - these guys perfectly compliment the inside mids.

In the end it's this type of player we were missing when we desperately recruited Peake & Lovett.

Winning the ball is important, but it's no good if you can't effectively retain possession.

That's just idiotic paraphrasing Dragit - I said no such things about wanting all clearance machines. Of course you want a range of skills and abilities and players with different strengths. My point is that its vital, and becoming more so that players are as well rounded as possible. By pointing to Hawthorn you prove my point. Mitchell, Hodge and Sewell are both tough ball winners and very good with disposal. Its what makes them so damn hard to stop. Geelong were the same with Ablett, Bartell, Selwood, Chapman. I thought we were always a bit one dimensional - Ball and Hayes inside, Dal and Monty outside and Goddard prob more outside than in. Over time the oppo worked out how to stop the ball getting into the hands of Dal and Monty and that killed a lot of our penetration.

You really think the oppo are going to watch Billings keep getting the ball worked out to him and then cutting them up with his brilliant disposal and jus say "Oh well"? This is the era of absolute professionalism in footy and they will have teams of people working out how to stop him getting it with positioning, tagging, run with, scragging etc. The best way to get better is often to work on your weaknesses rather than your strengths. The more Jack can work on his inside game the more unstoppable he will be. If he's getting tagged and blocked on the outside, then he can crack in to win his own footy. If they leave him alone again then he can position himself a bit more outside to use his disposal skills. Likewise if Jack is getting good posi outside, Dunny can crack in inside and if Jack goes in then Dunny should position to set up the chain to get it out. Its about having a dymanic flux rather than being predictable with Dunny inside, Billings outside.

"Outside mid" is completely old school thinking and I doubt many coaches think along these lines anymore. I like what Dunstan has shown with his ball getting and I've seen some real visionary disposal from him already. Acres looks strong inside but from the little I've seen from can read the play and set things up well so that's a tick. I'm hoping Steven will recover from his foot problems and with the games he played now have the composure and poise to be a bit more damaging with his kicking. If Billings can develop his inside game then he's also getting that all rounder skills set that starts making our midfield look dynamic, varied and with the drafting of a couple more quality mids with total game skills - eventually unstoppable!

Firstly Sewall had very ordinary disposal and secondly Dal was much more inside than BJ. Matter of fact his figures nearly match Hayes. The opposition never worked us out. We just didn't have the depth because we paid our stars to much to get better 15-25 players. And I totally disagree with you about working on your weaknesses. Coaches these days want your strengths to be that good you don't worry about your weaknesses. That's why less and less players worry about their wrong foot. And outside mid is todays term. Without being rude Bluthy I think you have most things wrong. The best thing the club can do for Billings is to build his speed so he becomes an outside running machine not an in and out mid which may just make him another run of the mill mid. Work to your strengths and forget all the other stuff.

[dragit]

"Outside mid" is completely old school thinking and I doubt many coaches think along these lines anymore.

Maybe go have a chat to anyone involved in football at a decent level if you get a chance… some mids are instructed to win the ball, others are told specifically to stay out of the contest in order to become a link after a clearance...

It doesn't mean that an "outside" player is hopeless in a contest, Brad Hill & Isaac Smith both crack in as hard as anyone, but when they set-up at a stoppage, these guys aren't at the bottom of the pack.

You want elite users of the ball in space - & this is why Billings will play more outside than Dunstan, who is much stronger but no-where near as clean in disposal.

[The OtherThommo]

No change in my view of where Jack No 3 is headed - he'll be in the elite of the AFL by the time he's 21. Everything about him says elite - 18 months of physical restrictions leading into his 1st year at AFL, yet plays 16 games, generally holds his own and has a couple of outstanding games, in 16 in his 1st year. The No 2 draft pick, Kelly, without the physical impediments, struggled way more than Jack 3. He's smart, personable, and has an innate feel for the sport. In U-18 football, both years, he displayed a flair that is rare (that rhymes!!).

The kid will be a giant of the competition, and it will happen a lot faster than people think possible.

In this day and age, a young, skinny 1st year player is not entitled to play a game where he has 25 possessions, at 100% disposal efficiency (never been done before at any age), and kick 3 goals.

Bullish, oh so very bullish.

But where do you think he will end up playing Thommo? Do you have any idea what his endurance is like because I think that the key. If he's more explosive than an endurance beast then I think he'll end up the mercurial half forward with bursts as an impact player on the ball ala Rioli. But if he can run all day then it make sense for him to be an onballer and let him rack up the possessions, use his quality disposal and creativity all over the ground and link up play from the back to the forwards. Plus then with his innate goal scoring sense he would then be the goal scoring midfielder we desperately need to take the pressure off our forwards and become a multifaceted scoring team. We've got Saad, Lonie, Templeton, Membry, Minchington, maybe McKenzie or some future draftee or rookie to try and fill those small forwards spots if Billings is best suited to onball. Will be an interesting year for the young lad.

He'll progressively spend more time on ball, Bluthy, because his game is built around ball winning, be that by ability to win it in contests (which his game had to rely on as a skinny kid when he couldn't train due to bursitis in his knee), or by being able to position himself on the outside to receive. He didn't go 3 because of endurance, 'cos he didn't have any - he survived and thrived living off sheer, unadulterated football skill and ability to know how the game is played.

The endurance will come as he settles into a conducive regime. I don't think he'll ever be a gut running freak, but I don't reckon we want him to become a gut running freak. He's an impact player, a game changer...someone who dominates on ability.

He's different to Rioli, who relies on exceptional bursts in small doses......in a top side.....with plenty of cover......and a body that breaks at the drop of a hat. Billings, sans training due the burstitis in his last year of TAC, was still able to get it a lot, and spend time in the middle. General view is he would have gone top 5 in his underage year in TAC.

I said way back, he looks like a 1/2 Bartel, 1/2 Johnson type. He wins the ball in the air against bigger opponents, and comes up with freakish moves that no-one can envisage until he's done it. And, he's a better all round ball user than both, but with the flair for the unpredictable angles of Johnson.

A giant of the competition, and quickly, of that I have no doubt.

He's a truly rare talent, and one I haven't seen the likes of at our footy club since Doc fast tracked Banger (who started as a skinny half forward who kicked goals). Kudos to Elshaugh et al who took the punt on Jack #3's ability when he'd been so hampered physically in his lead up to the draft.

[Bluthy]

He'll progressively spend more time on ball, Bluthy, because his game is built around ball winning, be that by ability to win it in contests (which his game had to rely on as a skinny kid when he couldn't train due to bursitis in his knee), or by being able to position himself on the outside to receive.

Thanks for the insights Thommo. And your quote backs up what I've been saying perfectly. I can see why we grabbed him now. He got so many weapons, inside/outside/marking/goal kicking/brilliant disposal that he will be near unstoppable. Mark my words, versatility is the new forward press and we need to be at the forefront of it. Obviously you've got huge wraps on the kid. I think this year will be another big learning year for him so I hope people don't expect him to be going for the brownlow. If he can get his head around AFL midfield duties, and might even be given a run in the back half to utilise his long kicking and learn another aspect of the game, and stay fit and well that's a big tick.

You know who reminds me of Rioli a bit - Lonie. From those highlight packages of his he does that same tappy-tappy mecurial ball juggling to get it out of heavy traffic and win clean possession. And he seemed to have really good disposal. I'd like to see what he can do on the ball a bit. People don't appreciate there are different ways to win the footy .

[Bluthy]

And I'm telling you that what you are describing - a player designed to "receive the ball" - is a dinosaur in this game now. Clarkson, Longmire and the Scotts lick their lips when they see this player on the oppo list for a prelim

A dinosaur concept is that all of your mids will be in & under clearance machines… right up there with "kick it long down the guts".

I'm not sure what you've been watching - Clarkson, Longmire & the Scotts (and all coaches) use receiving mids to generate their attacks.

Burgoyne, Hill, Smith, Shiels, Breust, Rioli - these guys perfectly compliment the inside mids.

In the end it's this type of player we were missing when we desperately recruited Peake & Lovett.

Winning the ball is important, but it's no good if you can't effectively retain possession.

That's just idiotic paraphrasing Dragit - I said no such things about wanting all clearance machines. Of course you want a range of skills and abilities and players with different strengths. My point is that its vital, and becoming more so that players are as well rounded as possible. By pointing to Hawthorn you prove my point. Mitchell, Hodge and Sewell are both tough ball winners and very good with disposal. Its what makes them so damn hard to stop. Geelong were the same with Ablett, Bartell, Selwood, Chapman. I thought we were always a bit one dimensional - Ball and Hayes inside, Dal and Monty outside and Goddard prob more outside than in. Over time the oppo worked out how to stop the ball getting into the hands of Dal and Monty and that killed a lot of our penetration.

You really think the oppo are going to watch Billings keep getting the ball worked out to him and then cutting them up with his brilliant disposal and jus say "Oh well"? This is the era of absolute professionalism in footy and they will have teams of people working out how to stop him getting it with positioning, tagging, run with, scragging etc. The best way to get better is often to work on your weaknesses rather than your strengths. The more Jack can work on his inside game the more unstoppable he will be. If he's getting tagged and blocked on the outside, then he can crack in to win his own footy. If they leave him alone again then he can position himself a bit more outside to use his disposal skills. Likewise if Jack is getting good posi outside, Dunny can crack in inside and if Jack goes in then Dunny should position to set up the chain to get it out. Its about having a dymanic flux rather than being predictable with Dunny inside, Billings outside.

"Outside mid" is completely old school thinking and I doubt many coaches think along these lines anymore. I like what Dunstan has shown with his ball getting and I've seen some real visionary disposal from him already. Acres looks strong inside but from the little I've seen from can read the play and set things up well so that's a tick. I'm hoping Steven will recover from his foot problems and with the games he played now have the composure and poise to be a bit more damaging with his kicking. If Billings can develop his inside game then he's also getting that all rounder skills set that starts making our midfield look dynamic, varied and with the drafting of a couple more quality mids with total game skills - eventually unstoppable!

Firstly Sewall had very ordinary disposal and secondly Dal was much more inside than BJ. Matter of fact his figures nearly match Hayes. The opposition never worked us out. We just didn't have the depth because we paid our stars to much to get better 15-25 players. And I totally disagree with you about working on your weaknesses. Coaches these days want your strengths to be that good you don't worry about your weaknesses. That's why less and less players worry about their wrong foot. And outside mid is todays term. Without being rude Bluthy I think you have most things wrong. The best thing the club can do for Billings is to build his speed so he becomes an outside running machine not an in and out mid which may just make him another run of the mill mid. Work to your strengths and forget all the other stuff.

That's really, really simplistic thinking Pluggs. I think a lot of people mistakenly extrapolate out their school days footy into AFL as if its the same game just a bit faster. Professional sport makes use of huge resources to design complex tactics, opposition analysis, body building, skill increases, psychological advantages etc. Look at the brilliant systems that Clarkson is putting in and the versatility he is adding to his team. Some things can be kept simple for sure, but sport is moving into increasingly complex systems and tactics and we need to move with it. Not "work to your strengths and forget all the other stuff". That's suicidally simple and there wouldn't be an AFL or VFL club with that approach. It will be "keep bulding our strengths, minimise our weakness and now lets think about lots of other stuff that will give us that edge to win a premiership". Creativity and innovation are becoming the essential component of clubs who want to contend for a flag. Your approach would have stayed at "Kick it long into the forward line cos Rooeys so damn good". Be like a shark, keep moving and changing or else you are dead.

There are 17 better resourced teams desperate to win a flag. Why should it be us? Because we find ways to do things better than they can. Get ahead of the pack and lead the way, don't follow. And when they catch up with us, we are in another place again, and holding that premiership cup aloft. St Kilda is the most creative, energetic, innovative, non-conventional suburb in Melbourne. That should be our blueprint for our club.

[plugger66]

And I'm telling you that what you are describing - a player designed to "receive the ball" - is a dinosaur in this game now. Clarkson, Longmire and the Scotts lick their lips when they see this player on the oppo list for a prelim

A dinosaur concept is that all of your mids will be in & under clearance machines… right up there with "kick it long down the guts".

I'm not sure what you've been watching - Clarkson, Longmire & the Scotts (and all coaches) use receiving mids to generate their attacks.

Burgoyne, Hill, Smith, Shiels, Breust, Rioli - these guys perfectly compliment the inside mids.

In the end it's this type of player we were missing when we desperately recruited Peake & Lovett.

Winning the ball is important, but it's no good if you can't effectively retain possession.

That's just idiotic paraphrasing Dragit - I said no such things about wanting all clearance machines. Of course you want a range of skills and abilities and players with different strengths. My point is that its vital, and becoming more so that players are as well rounded as possible. By pointing to Hawthorn you prove my point. Mitchell, Hodge and Sewell are both tough ball winners and very good with disposal. Its what makes them so damn hard to stop. Geelong were the same with Ablett, Bartell, Selwood, Chapman. I thought we were always a bit one dimensional - Ball and Hayes inside, Dal and Monty outside and Goddard prob more outside than in. Over time the oppo worked out how to stop the ball getting into the hands of Dal and Monty and that killed a lot of our penetration.

You really think the oppo are going to watch Billings keep getting the ball worked out to him and then cutting them up with his brilliant disposal and jus say "Oh well"? This is the era of absolute professionalism in footy and they will have teams of people working out how to stop him getting it with positioning, tagging, run with, scragging etc. The best way to get better is often to work on your weaknesses rather than your strengths. The more Jack can work on his inside game the more unstoppable he will be. If he's getting tagged and blocked on the outside, then he can crack in to win his own footy. If they leave him alone again then he can position himself a bit more outside to use his disposal skills. Likewise if Jack is getting good posi outside, Dunny can crack in inside and if Jack goes in then Dunny should position to set up the chain to get it out. Its about having a dymanic flux rather than being predictable with Dunny inside, Billings outside.

"Outside mid" is completely old school thinking and I doubt many coaches think along these lines anymore. I like what Dunstan has shown with his ball getting and I've seen some real visionary disposal from him already. Acres looks strong inside but from the little I've seen from can read the play and set things up well so that's a tick. I'm hoping Steven will recover from his foot problems and with the games he played now have the composure and poise to be a bit more damaging with his kicking. If Billings can develop his inside game then he's also getting that all rounder skills set that starts making our midfield look dynamic, varied and with the drafting of a couple more quality mids with total game skills - eventually unstoppable!

Firstly Sewall had very ordinary disposal and secondly Dal was much more inside than BJ. Matter of fact his figures nearly match Hayes. The opposition never worked us out. We just didn't have the depth because we paid our stars to much to get better 15-25 players. And I totally disagree with you about working on your weaknesses. Coaches these days want your strengths to be that good you don't worry about your weaknesses. That's why less and less players worry about their wrong foot. And outside mid is todays term. Without being rude Bluthy I think you have most things wrong. The best thing the club can do for Billings is to build his speed so he becomes an outside running machine not an in and out mid which may just make him another run of the mill mid. Work to your strengths and forget all the other stuff.

That's really, really simplistic thinking Pluggs. I think a lot of people mistakenly extrapolate out their school days footy into AFL as if its the same game just a bit faster. Professional sport makes use of huge resources to design complex tactics, opposition analysis, body building, skill increases, psychological advantages etc. Look at the brilliant systems that Clarkson is putting in and the versatility he is adding to his team. Some things can be kept simple for sure, but sport is moving into increasingly complex systems and tactics and we need to move with it. Not "work to your strengths and forget all the other stuff". That's suicidally simple and there wouldn't be an AFL or VFL club with that approach. It will be "keep bulding our strengths, minimise our weakness and now lets think about lots of other stuff that will give us that edge to win a premiership". Creativity and innovation are becoming the essential component of clubs who want to contend for a flag. Your approach would have stayed at "Kick it long into the forward line cos Rooeys so damn good". Be like a shark, keep moving and changing or else you are dead.

It is fact that coaches of AFL players want players to work to their strengths more than fixing up their weaknesses. Well it is for 2 AFL coaches I have spoken too. My approach is the current approach, yours is the approach from about 15 years ago. A simple look at the kicking on the wrong side of a player proves that. More and more players kick on their strong foot and will do some fancy kick rather than go onto their wrong foot. My approach is nothing like kicking it long to Rooy. That is the dumbest thing in footy. You have this so wrong. Funny that we have Mal Michael playing for my local club now and the other day he said to one of our outside runners that he just doesn't need to do get the ball, he needs to wait and receive it. He used Aker as the example. I have no idea what your thinking is but what you write isn't part of AFL footy at the moment.