Refection on the draft last night

[plugger66]

P66 is correct, if we want Treloar we either get him as a DFA (maybe if he doesn't resign with GWS and GWS then delist him) PSD (unlikely as this means we have either completely broken down in trade talks with GWS or GWS refuses to trade him) or we trade for him.

Trading for him has some scenarios ahead of us.

However we have to assume

1) we come last next year. Not out of the question and probable even. so that gives us #1 pick
2) possibly Jack Steven doesn't sign. As a RFA we may get the next pick after our first. So we have #1 and #2

We can then trade with GWS for Treloar, or we can keep #1 and #2 for maybe Parish and Mathesion.

Treloar or Shiel are two possibilities but much water under the bridge etc.

Imagine picks 1 & 2 + Treloar or Shiel in PSD for the loss of Steven, I think we'd be the winner out of that one.

Forget the PSD. It basically doest exist anymore otherwise why didn't we use it this year when we know we finished last.

[St Ick]

P66 is correct, if we want Treloar we either get him as a DFA (maybe if he doesn't resign with GWS and GWS then delist him) PSD (unlikely as this means we have either completely broken down in trade talks with GWS or GWS refuses to trade him) or we trade for him.

Trading for him has some scenarios ahead of us.

However we have to assume

1) we come last next year. Not out of the question and probable even. so that gives us #1 pick
2) possibly Jack Steven doesn't sign. As a RFA we may get the next pick after our first. So we have #1 and #2

We can then trade with GWS for Treloar, or we can keep #1 and #2 for maybe Parish and Mathesion.

Treloar or Shiel are two possibilities but much water under the bridge etc.

Imagine picks 1 & 2 + Treloar or Shiel in PSD for the loss of Steven, I think we'd be the winner out of that one.

Forget the PSD. It basically doest exist anymore otherwise why didn't we use it this year when we know we finished last.

We didn't use it this year because Sydney did us a favour and delisted Membrey, we didn't pick any other listed players up this year. Carlton will use it this year, because Dogs refused to delist Tutt and last year GWS used it when Sydney refused to delist Lamb - so in short, it's used when a team refuses to delist someone and they delist themselves. Which, IF Treloar was to do the dirty on GWS there is no way they would delist him, he'd have to walk to the PSD on principle (but that would never happen imo).

The player has to be 1) out of contract and 2) want to come to us and 3) by doing so we'd be killing the trading relationship with that club. I would've thought someone with your knowledge and expertise would know all of this. I assume most players we want we're all contract this year.

I know you are a big advocate of the PSD but by believing it doesn't exist is quite simple wrong.

[plugger66]

P66 is correct, if we want Treloar we either get him as a DFA (maybe if he doesn't resign with GWS and GWS then delist him) PSD (unlikely as this means we have either completely broken down in trade talks with GWS or GWS refuses to trade him) or we trade for him.

Trading for him has some scenarios ahead of us.

However we have to assume

1) we come last next year. Not out of the question and probable even. so that gives us #1 pick
2) possibly Jack Steven doesn't sign. As a RFA we may get the next pick after our first. So we have #1 and #2

We can then trade with GWS for Treloar, or we can keep #1 and #2 for maybe Parish and Mathesion.

Treloar or Shiel are two possibilities but much water under the bridge etc.

Imagine picks 1 & 2 + Treloar or Shiel in PSD for the loss of Steven, I think we'd be the winner out of that one.

Forget the PSD. It basically doest exist anymore otherwise why didn't we use it this year when we know we finished last.

We didn't use it this year because Sydney did us a favour and delisted Membrey, we didn't pick any other listed players up this year. Carlton will use it this year, because Dogs refused to delist Tutt and last year GWS used it when Sydney refused to delist Lamb - so in short, it's used when a team refuses to delist someone and they delist themselves. Which, IF Treloar was to do the dirty on GWS there is no way they would delist him, he'd have to walk to the PSD on principle (but that would never happen imo).

The player has to be 1) out of contract and 2) want to come to us and 3) by doing so we'd be killing the trading relationship with that club. I would've thought someone with your knowledge and expertise would know all of this. I assume most players we want we're all contract this year.

I know you are a big advocate of the PSD but by believing it doesn't exist is quite simple wrong.

Yes but if its the type of draft that will get us players like Trelour or Shiel then why wouldn't we have used it this year? Yep it may get a Membury or a Tutt but its basically a waste of time and wont get us a star based on about the last 5 years. And I know it still exists but I also know it gets unproven footballers these days.

[Con Gorozidis]

Get ready for pick 1 next year because our midfield is a joke.

[SuperDuper]

agree with those saying we will never get one of the GWS players in the PSD..

the only option we have, IMO, if a gun such as Treloar really does decide he wants to return to Vic, and demands to be traded, is to swap pick#2 + Steven for Treloar, with possible later pick coming back our way.. we can actually do this and hold on to pick 1 (or trade pick 1 and keep pick 2.. .

Here is how:

Steven to GWS as a free agent. Compensation of pick #2 to St. Kilda.
Pick #2 for Treloar

GWS get pick 2 plus Steven, lose Treloar

Saints get Treloar, lose Steven (we dont really lose pick # 2.. it only comes to us through letting steven go)
Saints keep pick 1

also:
1. It may be possible to swap Armitage and STeven in that scenario, depending on their seasons next year
2. The clubs would possibly argue over pick 1 vs 2, depending on if there is a standout pick 1 that emerges next year
3. Of course, this assumes we finish last.. but if we do not, pick #1 and pick #2 can be substituted for pick #2 and #3 respectively... or whatever it is we get.. most likely both top 5 picks anyway

[plugger66]

agree with those saying we will never get one of the GWS players in the PSD..

the only option we have, IMO, if a gun such as Treloar really does decide he wants to return to Vic, and demands to be traded, is to swap pick#2 + Steven for Treloar, with possible later pick coming back our way.. we can actually do this and hold on to pick 1 (or trade pick 1 and keep pick 2.. .

Here is how:

Steven to GWS as a free agent. Compensation of pick #2 to St. Kilda.
Pick #2 for Treloar

GWS get pick 2 plus Steven, lose Treloar

Saints get Treloar, lose Steven (we dont really lose pick # 2.. it only comes to us through letting steven go)
Saints keep pick 1

also:
1. It may be possible to swap Armitage and STeven in that scenario, depending on their seasons next year
2. The clubs would possibly argue over pick 1 vs 2, depending on if there is a standout pick 1 that emerges next year
3. Of course, this assumes we finish last.. but if we do not, pick #1 and pick #2 can be substituted for pick #2 and #3 respectively... or whatever it is we get.. most likely both top 5 picks anyway

So we are swapping Steven for Trelour. Not sure how that is a win to anyone really. We again lose another mid aged player and most likely our best player next year baring injury for a very good younger player but in the end all we gain in a player 3 years younger. And why does Steven have to go to GWS anyway? It wont change the compensation pick. I would be desperately trying to hold onto Steven after next season even though im starting to worry a little. I do agree though if he is going to go we need to get a proven young player in return. Using pick 2 on an unproven kid is fraught with danger.

[SuperDuper]

P66 is correct, if we want Treloar we either get him as a DFA (maybe if he doesn't resign with GWS and GWS then delist him) PSD (unlikely as this means we have either completely broken down in trade talks with GWS or GWS refuses to trade him) or we trade for him.

Trading for him has some scenarios ahead of us.

However we have to assume

1) we come last next year. Not out of the question and probable even. so that gives us #1 pick
2) possibly Jack Steven doesn't sign. As a RFA we may get the next pick after our first. So we have #1 and #2

We can then trade with GWS for Treloar, or we can keep #1 and #2 for maybe Parish and Mathesion.

Treloar or Shiel are two possibilities but much water under the bridge etc.

Imagine picks 1 & 2 + Treloar or Shiel in PSD for the loss of Steven, I think we'd be the winner out of that one.

wrong.. we cannot get him as a DFA. There is 0 chance of GWS delisting him just because he does not sign. Why would they do that????

And there is 0 changce of him coming in the PSD, using the past decade as a guide... he will want GWS to get compensation

So that leaves a trade...

[SuperDuper]

agree with those saying we will never get one of the GWS players in the PSD..

the only option we have, IMO, if a gun such as Treloar really does decide he wants to return to Vic, and demands to be traded, is to swap pick#2 + Steven for Treloar, with possible later pick coming back our way.. we can actually do this and hold on to pick 1 (or trade pick 1 and keep pick 2.. .

Here is how:

Steven to GWS as a free agent. Compensation of pick #2 to St. Kilda.
Pick #2 for Treloar

GWS get pick 2 plus Steven, lose Treloar

Saints get Treloar, lose Steven (we dont really lose pick # 2.. it only comes to us through letting steven go)
Saints keep pick 1

also:
1. It may be possible to swap Armitage and Steven in that scenario, depending on their seasons next year
2. The clubs would possibly argue over pick 1 vs 2, depending on if there is a standout pick 1 that emerges next year
3. Of course, this assumes we finish last.. but if we do not, pick #1 and pick #2 can be substituted for pick #2 and #3 respectively... or whatever it is we get.. most likely both top 5 picks anyway

So we are swapping Steven for Trelour. Not sure how that is a win to anyone really. We again lose another mid aged player and most likely our best player next year baring injury for a very good younger player but in the end all we gain in a player 3 years younger. And why does Steven have to go to GWS anyway? It wont change the compensation pick. I would be desperately trying to hold onto Steven after next season even though im starting to worry a little. I do agree though if he is going to go we need to get a proven young player in return. Using pick 2 on an unproven kid is fraught with danger.

I am not advocating the Steven <> Treloar swap Pluggs...
I am merely pointing out the only way possible that I can see a super young gun such as Treloar getting to our club
And as I said, it may be Armitage...

BUT it has to be Armitage/Steven to GWS, .. because quite frankly, we will need more than pick 2 to get the deal done...
Think Griffen + 6 for Boyd...
Treloar has more runs on the board than Boyd...

As I said, I am not saying I would do it... just trying to point out what it would take

People thinking we can get that type of young player who is not yet a FA for cheaper than that are dreaming

[plugger66]

agree with those saying we will never get one of the GWS players in the PSD..

the only option we have, IMO, if a gun such as Treloar really does decide he wants to return to Vic, and demands to be traded, is to swap pick#2 + Steven for Treloar, with possible later pick coming back our way.. we can actually do this and hold on to pick 1 (or trade pick 1 and keep pick 2.. .

Here is how:

Steven to GWS as a free agent. Compensation of pick #2 to St. Kilda.
Pick #2 for Treloar

GWS get pick 2 plus Steven, lose Treloar

Saints get Treloar, lose Steven (we dont really lose pick # 2.. it only comes to us through letting steven go)
Saints keep pick 1

also:
1. It may be possible to swap Armitage and Steven in that scenario, depending on their seasons next year
2. The clubs would possibly argue over pick 1 vs 2, depending on if there is a standout pick 1 that emerges next year
3. Of course, this assumes we finish last.. but if we do not, pick #1 and pick #2 can be substituted for pick #2 and #3 respectively... or whatever it is we get.. most likely both top 5 picks anyway

So we are swapping Steven for Trelour. Not sure how that is a win to anyone really. We again lose another mid aged player and most likely our best player next year baring injury for a very good younger player but in the end all we gain in a player 3 years younger. And why does Steven have to go to GWS anyway? It wont change the compensation pick. I would be desperately trying to hold onto Steven after next season even though im starting to worry a little. I do agree though if he is going to go we need to get a proven young player in return. Using pick 2 on an unproven kid is fraught with danger.

I am not advocating the Steven <> Treloar swap Pluggs...
I am merely pointing out the only way possible that I can see a super young gun such as Treloar getting to our club
And as I said, it may be Armitage...

BUT it has to be Armitage/Steven to GWS, .. because quite frankly, we will need more than pick 2 to get the deal done...
Think Griffen + 6 for Boyd...
Treloar has more runs on the board than Boyd...

As I said, I am not saying I would do it... just trying to point out what it would take

People thinking we can get that type of young player who is not yet a FA for cheaper than that are dreaming

Boyd was a pick one just a year earlier and also being a big guy they are overated priced IMO. I reckon we would easily get Trelour for pick one or two. Id rather get him and keep Steven. Also remember Boyd was in contract so you must pay overs there.

[saintsRrising]

BUT it has to be Armitage/Steven to GWS, .. because quite frankly, we will need more than pick 2 to get the deal done...
Think Griffen + 6 for Boyd...
Treloar has more runs on the board than Boyd...

Sorry, but the thinking here is flawed.

Griffen is 28 and at the height of his powers but with his best value likely to be over say the next 23 years. The Dogs like the Saints are building a team for the future and not to play finals next year. Whereas GWS are not genuinely at the stage where their expectation will be to play finals over the next several years, and beyond.

Steven and Armo are that bit younger at 24 and 26. We need some age profile in our team. In 3 years time the Saints will hopefully be pressing again when they are 27/8 and 29/30.

Armo is older, but lets us be honest here:
* He simply is not worth anywhere as much as Steven on the trade market, and in particular with GWS
* GWS are dripping in midfield talent. I doubt Armo will get a game with them
* GWS lacked a Griffen type player wise, and so was a good fit for them. He is genuinely elite and also provides leadership and addresses their age profile imbalance. all in all this was a great deal for GWS.

So that really just leaves Steven our one and only current mid that has shown signs of being elite. It makes absolutely no sense to trade him at his age simply to get another potentially elite mid. You are not gaining anything.

If you traded Armo, you would most likely only get in return less value than he is worth to us.

The Dogs also already had quite a talent bunch of young mids. But really have no marking forwards apart from Crameri. Boyd made a lot of sense to them. Both off-field and on, as he will boost membership and marketing spend. But they have sold the farm salary cap wise to gain him, and so if he does not actually become a superstar on the field, it will hamstring them for years.

GWS are time-wise way in front of us in building there team. The Dogs are also several years in front.

[SuperDuper]

BUT it has to be Armitage/Steven to GWS, .. because quite frankly, we will need more than pick 2 to get the deal done...
Think Griffen + 6 for Boyd...
Treloar has more runs on the board than Boyd...

Sorry, but the thinking here is flawed.

Griffen is 28 and at the height of his powers but with his best value likely to be over say the next 23 years. The Dogs like the Saints are building a team for the future and not to play finals next year. Whereas GWS are not genuinely at the stage where their expectation will be to play finals over the next several years, and beyond.

Steven and Armo are that bit younger at 24 and 26. We need some age profile in our team. In 3 years time the Saints will hopefully be pressing again when they are 27/8 and 29/30.

Armo is older, but lets us be honest here:
* He simply is not worth anywhere as much as Steven on the trade market, and in particular with GWS
* GWS are dripping in midfield talent. I doubt Armo will get a game with them
* GWS lacked a Griffen type player wise, and so was a good fit for them. He is genuinely elite and also provides leadership and addresses their age profile imbalance. all in all this was a great deal for GWS.

So that really just leaves Steven our one and only current mid that has shown signs of being elite. It makes absolutely no sense to trade him at his age simply to get another potentially elite mid. You are not gaining anything.

If you traded Armo, you would most likely only get in return less value than he is worth to us.

The Dogs also already had quite a talent bunch of young mids. But really have no marking forwards apart from Crameri. Boyd made a lot of sense to them. Both off-field and on, as he will boost membership and marketing spend. But they have sold the farm salary cap wise to gain him, and so if he does not actually become a superstar on the field, it will hamstring them for years.

GWS are time-wise way in front of us in building there team. The Dogs are also several years in front.

again, I am not saying we should make that trade. I am just saying that is the only way, IMO, that we could get someone like Treloar to our club...

So... if you think we are better off keeping Steven & Armitage... I am not arguing with that

[SuperDuper]

agree with those saying we will never get one of the GWS players in the PSD..

the only option we have, IMO, if a gun such as Treloar really does decide he wants to return to Vic, and demands to be traded, is to swap pick#2 + Steven for Treloar, with possible later pick coming back our way.. we can actually do this and hold on to pick 1 (or trade pick 1 and keep pick 2.. .

Here is how:

Steven to GWS as a free agent. Compensation of pick #2 to St. Kilda.
Pick #2 for Treloar

GWS get pick 2 plus Steven, lose Treloar

Saints get Treloar, lose Steven (we dont really lose pick # 2.. it only comes to us through letting steven go)
Saints keep pick 1

also:
1. It may be possible to swap Armitage and Steven in that scenario, depending on their seasons next year
2. The clubs would possibly argue over pick 1 vs 2, depending on if there is a standout pick 1 that emerges next year
3. Of course, this assumes we finish last.. but if we do not, pick #1 and pick #2 can be substituted for pick #2 and #3 respectively... or whatever it is we get.. most likely both top 5 picks anyway

So we are swapping Steven for Trelour. Not sure how that is a win to anyone really. We again lose another mid aged player and most likely our best player next year baring injury for a very good younger player but in the end all we gain in a player 3 years younger. And why does Steven have to go to GWS anyway? It wont change the compensation pick. I would be desperately trying to hold onto Steven after next season even though im starting to worry a little. I do agree though if he is going to go we need to get a proven young player in return. Using pick 2 on an unproven kid is fraught with danger.

I am not advocating the Steven <> Treloar swap Pluggs...
I am merely pointing out the only way possible that I can see a super young gun such as Treloar getting to our club
And as I said, it may be Armitage...

BUT it has to be Armitage/Steven to GWS, .. because quite frankly, we will need more than pick 2 to get the deal done...
Think Griffen + 6 for Boyd...
Treloar has more runs on the board than Boyd...

As I said, I am not saying I would do it... just trying to point out what it would take

People thinking we can get that type of young player who is not yet a FA for cheaper than that are dreaming

Boyd was a pick one just a year earlier and also being a big guy they are overated priced IMO. I reckon we would easily get Trelour for pick one or two. Id rather get him and keep Steven. Also remember Boyd was in contract so you must pay overs there.

well pluggs.. on one hand you are saying you would not trade Steven for pick 2 (fair enough... I think i'd agree with that) but on the other hand you say " I reckon we would easily get Trelour for pick one or two."

Treloar will be worth as much in the minds of GWS as Steven is in your mind...
So I doubt we would get him for pick one or two "easily". Most likely they will think about Treloar along the same line as you do think about Steven.... They cant just keep rescyling players reaching maturity for draft picks.. Treloar is in their age bracket that is targeted for success... they would much rather keep Treloar, who is going to be peaking during their tilts at a flag, than a pick 1 who *may* be good in 5 years

[SuperDuper]

BUT it has to be Armitage/Steven to GWS, .. because quite frankly, we will need more than pick 2 to get the deal done...
Think Griffen + 6 for Boyd...
Treloar has more runs on the board than Boyd...

Sorry, but the thinking here is flawed.

Griffen is 28 and at the height of his powers but with his best value likely to be over say the next 23 years. The Dogs like the Saints are building a team for the future and not to play finals next year. Whereas GWS are not genuinely at the stage where their expectation will be to play finals over the next several years, and beyond.

Steven and Armo are that bit younger at 24 and 26. We need some age profile in our team. In 3 years time the Saints will hopefully be pressing again when they are 27/8 and 29/30.

Armo is older, but lets us be honest here:
* He simply is not worth anywhere as much as Steven on the trade market, and in particular with GWS
* GWS are dripping in midfield talent. I doubt Armo will get a game with them
* GWS lacked a Griffen type player wise, and so was a good fit for them. He is genuinely elite and also provides leadership and addresses their age profile imbalance. all in all this was a great deal for GWS.

So that really just leaves Steven our one and only current mid that has shown signs of being elite. It makes absolutely no sense to trade him at his age simply to get another potentially elite mid. You are not gaining anything.

If you traded Armo, you would most likely only get in return less value than he is worth to us.

The Dogs also already had quite a talent bunch of young mids. But really have no marking forwards apart from Crameri. Boyd made a lot of sense to them. Both off-field and on, as he will boost membership and marketing spend. But they have sold the farm salary cap wise to gain him, and so if he does not actually become a superstar on the field, it will hamstring them for years.

GWS are time-wise way in front of us in building there team. The Dogs are also several years in front.

I also agree with you that Armo is not worth as much as Steven... BUT, Armo + pick 2 is not a bad package to offer up...

In fact, this highlights a loophole in free agency...

If GWS pay Armitage a little over market rate.. say 450000 *over 4 years* (where most clubs wanting him as FA probably would offer 3 years and a little less money)... then GWS can guarntee that the saints get pick 2 (assuming we come last )

Then, they can trade a player to us, and gain pick 2....

hard for the AFL to say that pick 2 s not "fair compensation" for who ever it is we get from them.. so hard to claim draft tampering

So GWS get Armo + pick 2 in the deal.. that may satisfy their requirements if one of their young players demands a trade south

[plugger66]

agree with those saying we will never get one of the GWS players in the PSD..

the only option we have, IMO, if a gun such as Treloar really does decide he wants to return to Vic, and demands to be traded, is to swap pick#2 + Steven for Treloar, with possible later pick coming back our way.. we can actually do this and hold on to pick 1 (or trade pick 1 and keep pick 2.. .

Here is how:

Steven to GWS as a free agent. Compensation of pick #2 to St. Kilda.
Pick #2 for Treloar

GWS get pick 2 plus Steven, lose Treloar

Saints get Treloar, lose Steven (we dont really lose pick # 2.. it only comes to us through letting steven go)
Saints keep pick 1

also:
1. It may be possible to swap Armitage and Steven in that scenario, depending on their seasons next year
2. The clubs would possibly argue over pick 1 vs 2, depending on if there is a standout pick 1 that emerges next year
3. Of course, this assumes we finish last.. but if we do not, pick #1 and pick #2 can be substituted for pick #2 and #3 respectively... or whatever it is we get.. most likely both top 5 picks anyway

So we are swapping Steven for Trelour. Not sure how that is a win to anyone really. We again lose another mid aged player and most likely our best player next year baring injury for a very good younger player but in the end all we gain in a player 3 years younger. And why does Steven have to go to GWS anyway? It wont change the compensation pick. I would be desperately trying to hold onto Steven after next season even though im starting to worry a little. I do agree though if he is going to go we need to get a proven young player in return. Using pick 2 on an unproven kid is fraught with danger.

I am not advocating the Steven <> Treloar swap Pluggs...
I am merely pointing out the only way possible that I can see a super young gun such as Treloar getting to our club
And as I said, it may be Armitage...

BUT it has to be Armitage/Steven to GWS, .. because quite frankly, we will need more than pick 2 to get the deal done...
Think Griffen + 6 for Boyd...
Treloar has more runs on the board than Boyd...

As I said, I am not saying I would do it... just trying to point out what it would take

People thinking we can get that type of young player who is not yet a FA for cheaper than that are dreaming

Boyd was a pick one just a year earlier and also being a big guy they are overated priced IMO. I reckon we would easily get Trelour for pick one or two. Id rather get him and keep Steven. Also remember Boyd was in contract so you must pay overs there.

well pluggs.. on one hand you are saying you would not trade Steven for pick 2 (fair enough... I think i'd agree with that) but on the other hand you say " I reckon we would easily get Trelour for pick one or two."

Treloar will be worth as much in the minds of GWS as Steven is in your mind...
So I doubt we would get him for pick one or two "easily". Most likely they will think about Treloar along the same line as you do think about Steven.... They cant just keep rescyling players reaching maturity for draft picks.. Treloar is in their age bracket that is targeted for success... they would much rather Treloar who is going to be peaking during their tilts at a flag, than a pick 1 who *may* be good in 5 years

Yep im saying that because I think we will finish last or second last. Im saying I would use our pick on a player like that. And I think we would get a player of Trelours ability easily for that pick because I rate him about level with Jack and jack isn't probably worth that so it would be easy IMO. Is it worth doing that though? Well it depends on how the club rate Trelour. And I agree they cant just keep recycling players for picks. Have said many times. This is a hypothetical though. If I was being honest I would say GWS wouldn't do the trade. Not because the pick isn't good enough but due to the reasons you stated. Them getting Jack though as a FA doesn't make that task any easier though.

[matrix]

im just wondering how we are going to get sloaney traded into the club

[Dave McNamara]

Yep im saying that because I think we will finish last or second last. Im saying I would use our pick on a player like that. And I think we would get a player of Trelours ability easily for that pick because I rate him about level with Jack and jack isn't probably worth that so it would be easy IMO. Is it worth doing that though? Well it depends on how the club rate Trelour. And I agree they cant just keep recycling players for picks. Have said many times. This is a hypothetical though. If I was being honest I would say GWS wouldn't do the trade. Not because the pick isn't good enough but due to the reasons you stated. Them getting Jack though as a FA doesn't make that task any easier though.

I agree, 'swapping' Treloar in for Steven out, is much like threading water, when every club needs to be moving forward.

As for using a really high draft pick for Treloar, why would we, if he's out of contract and wanting out of the Wogans? He can just walk straight into St Kilda via the PSD if the Wogans refuse to do a 'reasonable' (like including Cameron in the mix ) deal with us.

Stuff 'em, those plastic soulless AFL love-kinder!

[plugger66]

Yep im saying that because I think we will finish last or second last. Im saying I would use our pick on a player like that. And I think we would get a player of Trelours ability easily for that pick because I rate him about level with Jack and jack isn't probably worth that so it would be easy IMO. Is it worth doing that though? Well it depends on how the club rate Trelour. And I agree they cant just keep recycling players for picks. Have said many times. This is a hypothetical though. If I was being honest I would say GWS wouldn't do the trade. Not because the pick isn't good enough but due to the reasons you stated. Them getting Jack though as a FA doesn't make that task any easier though.

I agree, 'swapping' Treloar in for Steven out, is much like threading water, when every club needs to be moving forward.

As for using a really high draft pick for Treloar, why would we, if he's out of contract and wanting out of the Wogans? He can just walk straight into St Kilda via the PSD if the Wogans refuse to do a 'reasonable' (like including Cameron in the mix ) deal with us.

Stuff 'em, those plastic soulless AFL love-kinder!

Dave why do you continue with this rubbish of the PSD. Its as bad as the JO thing. The PSD is basically finished. May not even exist soon. One player taken this year. We had the certainty of pick one and didn't even try to use it. It will take a very high pick to get Trelour because need to out bid other clubs. Unfortunatelt we have little going for us at the moment. No forget the PSD and the JO as a playing venue.

[jonesy]

Treloar is worth about three times more than Steven in durability alone, then there is output where he has had him covered in his second season compared to Jacks best after 6 seasons

[plugger66]

Treloar is worth about three times more than Steven in durability alone, then there is output where he has had him covered in his second season compared to Jacks best after 6 seasons

If you are going to make statements at least make sure they are true. jack has missed about 7 games in the last 4 years. Treloar has missed 8 in his first 3 years which is a great effort but it makes that statement completely incorrect. And I still rate Jacks year last year a fair way above Treloars 3 years but again it may make that statement incorrect but at least that's an opinion where as the first statement is fact and its wrong.

[jonesy]

Does that take into account all the one's he limps through for big chunks of the season? Jack's career has been holted a few times by injury problems,especially early and this year, where as Treloar as a kid has only missed a handful by being rested. Jack had half a season of bordering where he was nearing elite out of his 6 seasons,whilst Treloar is there after just three. The club wouldn't even blink if the trade was offered

[samuraisaint]

P66 is correct, if we want Treloar we either get him as a DFA (maybe if he doesn't resign with GWS and GWS then delist him) PSD (unlikely as this means we have either completely broken down in trade talks with GWS or GWS refuses to trade him) or we trade for him.

Trading for him has some scenarios ahead of us.

However we have to assume

1) we come last next year. Not out of the question and probable even. so that gives us #1 pick
2) possibly Jack Steven doesn't sign. As a RFA we may get the next pick after our first. So we have #1 and #2

We can then trade with GWS for Treloar, or we can keep #1 and #2 for maybe Parish and Mathesion.

Treloar or Shiel are two possibilities but much water under the bridge etc.

Jack Steven will sign. Why wouldn't he? He is doing the hard yards now in a club which is struggling and is an important player for the club.

[citywest]

Get ready for pick 1 next year because our midfield is a joke.

It doesn't matter if our midfield is weak next year. The Saints need to look at the long term (5 years). If we finish last but get 20 games into our younger players then that is acceptable. In 12 months time we will be able to load up on midfielders with pick 1 and pick 20. What I am annoyed about is if Richmond did in fact offer pick 12 for Armitage we should have taken it. Pick 12 would have got us a gun midfielder this year. Oh well.

[Jimmy O'Dea]

Get ready for pick 1 next year because our midfield is a joke.

Darcy Parish is an absolute freak and will be one of the best mids from a pure footballing perspective to come out of the under 18 system for a while. Mega draft for high quality mids next year and no doubt our recruiters were well aware of this.

We have done extremely well recruiting key position this year as cupboards pretty empty in 2015.

[St Ick]

Yes but if its the type of draft that will get us players like Trelour or Shiel then why wouldn't we have used it this year? Yep it may get a Membury or a Tutt but its basically a waste of time and wont get us a star based on about the last 5 years. And I know it still exists but I also know it gets unproven footballers these days.

In answer to the first question GWS had all of their kids contracted and the PSD is for those who are uncontracted.

I dont honestly think we'll snag a gun in the PSD so in effect we are agreeing - maybe I'm just disagreeing with the way you are discussing it.

[HitTheBoundary]

If we finish last next year we should beg for a priority pick.

Pick 1 & 2 would be very nice.