Brent Guerra on "Open Mike"

[Cairnsman]

You should post here more often MB

Thanks. Living in Tassie as I do and lacking the time to fly across to watch games live, I've been feeling a bit cut off from the action.

But -even allowing for the limited perspective you get watching the game on the box - I really like what I'm seeing so far this season. I reckon we're on the upswing again after 3 crap seasons.

Agree with Skeptic, you should post more, I have always enjoyed your contributions.

[BigMart]

I don't think Watters had the respect of the group?

Not sure who was running the club on field
Watters
Or Riewoldt, Hayes, Milne, Dal... Lyon disciples

They didn't like his GP, they weren't happy with his sanction of Milne, they didn't like where he thought the team was.... And they knew he hated Pelchin. The club was divided.
I also believed, SW was initially too friendly, trying his best to get senior players on board and giving them empowerment in decision making... And when it came to being a hard prick. Was too weak to do so?... And then when he tried to take charge and get some control back, it was too late... And he swung too far the other way. He gave too much rope early and couldn't reel it in... So he tried to cut the rope....
There was also one bizarre selection? Can't remember exactly who it was, but it seemed to just be a a protest selection. Saad perhaps?

He actually lost the plot... Stress will do that.

He had a great coaching pedigree SW... But you never know if they are afl material until they are in the hot seat. And start losing... How they react determines their strength.

Richardson seems a lot like Williams and McCartney from the dogs... Unassuming and educates individual players on how to improve .... Very nurturing, but more father figures than friendly... Put themselves on a level that is still distant from players.

I reckon Lyon is like Malthouse, Eade, blight, Pig Headed, egotistical and arrogant... Good attributes if you are respected. He does not get too close to players and makes it clear who the boss is...
Churns out football robots. Teams are like machines... Boring and repetitive .... Needs players with discipline

GT is more a Pagan, Sheedy style leader.... Larger than life, builds very close bonds, players play for the them... They seem to love them.... Very much the motivator and gives belief in a cause. More emotive. They need a lot of natural talent
Teams have flair and creativity


That's my summation anyway. And why I think GT was an effective coach. He had some good attributes.

Guys like Neeld were pretend leaders

[markp]

Great summation BM! Agree with it all.

It is all academic history now, although WiGuerra is better placed than most to know what it takes and identify what was lacking.

All that really matters is where we're at now and where we are heading.

Some interesting points MB, I believe (and hope) you're right about AR, thus far I like everything I've seen, I reckon he's the real deal and we're very well placed all round.

[BigMart]

I think it is pretty clear what GT was lacking tactically, Guerra is probably right.

But what he did for StK was more than just coach the team... He tried to change a mediocre culture, he made the players believe it was a great club to be proud of, their club, and they could build something big?!

He sold the club to them.

The club meant a lot to the them, it was more than just a place of employment. It was a family, a brotherhood...

Lyon pushed out favourite sons in 2009 and made it clear it was a business (the Ball fiasco was a statement) ... Not emotive at any stage. Everything was about preparation and process. It wasn't let's stick together, it was cut throat to find excellence. No favours, no loyalty... Just a quest for performance.
He then turned his back in 2012.

And in turn demonstrated to his robots that business is business... And search for individual success outweighs team or loyalty.

The biggest difference between the two... Empathy. The most dangerous and difficult quality to balance in leadership.

GT ... A better manager

Lyon a better football coach

Both good leaders... With different approaches.

[derby Street]

Didn't think much of him then. - Think less of him now

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/h ... 6881198777

that guy's disgraceful prformance in the 2005 prelim loss to shytney was the reason he got delisted ..not his wild life style....he was a sniper and a prick of a person......think we lost the 04 prelim when the saints fans invaded the ground......2005 we just ran out of fit players...nothing to dp with thomas you lying little turd....


don't you just love it when little sh!ts like him rewrite history to suit themselves...

Stevie Bakers Dad was right amongst the PF ground invasion - you expect that sort of stupid behaviour from kids not supposed adults. Once a Colac bogan always a Colac bogan. We had P.A until that delay stopped our momentum. Still p#sses me off to this day.

Don't forget P.A were also keen to offload BG when we got him, so perhaps Brent should actually thank Grant for keeping his AFL career going. Used to hate the way he dived and staged for free kicks

[stinger]

Yes,

He was not a bad coach... In fact he had many strengths .... His interpersonal skills and management skills are very good.

He would have actually complemented Lyon.

Lyon is ice cold and unwavering, not emotive.. Good quality for a senior coach IMO... Plus his tactical supremacy
GT is political and personable/empathetic .... A good manager
Richo is touted as a wonderful developer of talent... A teacher style coach

I've spent a lot of time at the top or near the top of a variety of organizations, and you can usually pick the true leaders: the ones you can say have "got it". And you can also usually pick the duds.

It was obvious from the start that GT had this leadership quality. And it was pretty clear that Watters, for all his hard work, didn't: Malthouse's backhanded compliment about Watters being a much kinder person than Lyon perhaps pointing at a tendency towards weakness.

I was initially wrong about Lyon: I was disturbed by his tendency to blame the players when they performed poorly. But it became clear after a while that this was a reflection not of an unwillingness on his part to take responsibility, but of his enormously high standards and expectations. He sure is a tough, unforgiving dude. Perhaps a bit too much so: we must always remember that, no matter how good he has been, he hasn't quite got there yet: although he really did everything right in 2009 and the players ultimately let him down (in 2010, we were clearly inferior to the Pies and were lucky to get close IMO and then just couldn't quite ride our luck all the way).

Richardson, from what I've seen of him, looks more like a leader then any of them.

And it's reflected on field. There's a purpose there that we haven't seen since 2010.

love your posts mate...but i'm not sold on lyin ever making it .....game plan is defective against the top sides......and in addition ..he has no depth in his list...bit like us in the years he coached us......that first showed up in our game against them last year and again in the match against the hawks........i believe he lost in 2009 and 20010 because of poor team selections and the failure to utilize his best players to their full extent.......ie maxie , armo, steven and his c**k up with ball.....that last one actually is the one that still riles me the most......put ball on in the last quarter ..we win...put him in our side in 2010 instead of the filth's...we win again.......lyin has a blind spot...two if you count zac.....

[Hurricane]

Taken out of context the remarks are pretty ordinary. Especially when you consider the man actually has a couple of premiership medals hanging in his house, which is an absolute tragedy that blokes like Geurra have em and Robert Harvey doesn't. However how we didn't win a flag with the side we had in 04-05 can't be contributed to just "s*** coaching"

BAG BANG

[stinger]

Loved to take out unsuspecting blokes... gee how hard is it to belt a bloke who isn't looking at you...? But ok, live by the sword... then be prepared to die by the sword(!) Not the Goo. As MB pointed out, it there was a contest to be won, a hard ball to be got... he always fell over to 'excuse' himself from the contest... weak as...!

'Success' with the skid marks(?) Always the loose go-to man in defence there. Prefect role for him! (Of course though, he still took the opportunity to snipe the unsuspecting, still kept diving to avoid competing!)

One of the most overrated players ev-ah!!!

holy crap daveman.......we finally agree on something..........

[Dave McNamara]

You should post here more often MB

Thanks. Living in Tassie as I do and lacking the time to fly across to watch games live, I've been feeling a bit cut off from the action.

But -even allowing for the limited perspective you get watching the game on the box - I really like what I'm seeing so far this season. I reckon we're on the upswing again after 3 crap seasons.

Agree with Skeptic, you should post more, I have always enjoyed your contributions.

Yep, totally agree.



Except..., a few on here actually should not want MB to post!

When posting, I try to dot my 'i's and cross my 't's when attempting to make an argument. Doing so is the natural enemy of brevity.

I do so, coz I've never forgotten MB shooting down my (otherwise) high-flying post re the Falklands War.

[Dave McNamara]

Loved to take out unsuspecting blokes... gee how hard is it to belt a bloke who isn't looking at you...? But ok, live by the sword... then be prepared to die by the sword(!) Not the Goo. As MB pointed out, it there was a contest to be won, a hard ball to be got... he always fell over to 'excuse' himself from the contest... weak as...!

'Success' with the skid marks(?) Always the loose go-to man in defence there. Prefect role for him! (Of course though, he still took the opportunity to snipe the unsuspecting, still kept diving to avoid competing!)

One of the most overrated players ev-ah!!!

holy crap daveman.......we finally agree on something..........

We agree on heaps Sting.

Most of the differences are way more to do with the means, than with the end.

(Eg; asylum seekers and the next Saints flag.
And we both luurrvvve emoticons. )

[Scollop]

I think it is pretty clear what GT was lacking tactically, Guerra is probably right.

But what he did for StK was more than just coach the team... He tried to change a mediocre culture, he made the players believe it was a great club to be proud of, their club, and they could build something big?!

He sold the club to them.

The club meant a lot to the them, it was more than just a place of employment. It was a family, a brotherhood...

Lyon pushed out favourite sons in 2009 and made it clear it was a business (the Ball fiasco was a statement) ... Not emotive at any stage. Everything was about preparation and process. It wasn't let's stick together, it was cut throat to find excellence. No favours, no loyalty... Just a quest for performance.
He then turned his back in 2012.

And in turn demonstrated to his robots that business is business... And search for individual success outweighs team or loyalty.

But even business understands that human emotions are the foundation to capturing the wallets of their customers. Since when do $$Billion companies win consumers minds by producing value for money?

GT helped lay strong foundations; GT's innovative approach fast tracked our future leaders; he helped to build and create the blueprint for sustained success. GT's legacy was a major contributor to Lyon's opportunity to become a premiership coach

I still think most of what Lyon brought to St Kilda was imitating Paul Roos 2004-2006 Swans. The difference was that Roos actually believed in his men. You have to be at least a little creative to win the big one and that's also where Roos stands head and shoulders above Lyon. Lyon wasn't creative enough or inspirational enough to get the job done.

Roos also left a great legacy at the Swans. When Lyon left St Kilda he not only left a vacuum but he showed his reptilian side by telling supporters and the club and the players 'your era is over'. His negativity throughout 2011 was a cancer.

[stinger]

I think it is pretty clear what GT was lacking tactically, Guerra is probably right.

But what he did for StK was more than just coach the team... He tried to change a mediocre culture, he made the players believe it was a great club to be proud of, their club, and they could build something big?!

He sold the club to them.

The club meant a lot to the them, it was more than just a place of employment. It was a family, a brotherhood...

Lyon pushed out favourite sons in 2009 and made it clear it was a business (the Ball fiasco was a statement) ... Not emotive at any stage. Everything was about preparation and process. It wasn't let's stick together, it was cut throat to find excellence. No favours, no loyalty... Just a quest for performance.
He then turned his back in 2012.

And in turn demonstrated to his robots that business is business... And search for individual success outweighs team or loyalty.

But even business understands that human emotions are the foundation to capturing the wallets of their customers. Since when do $$Billion companies win consumers minds by producing value for money?

GT helped lay strong foundations; GT's innovative approach fast tracked our future leaders; he helped to build and create the blueprint for sustained success. GT's legacy was a major contributor to Lyon's opportunity to become a premiership coach

I still think most of what Lyon brought to St Kilda was imitating Paul Roos 2004-2006 Swans. The difference was that Roos actually believed in his men. You have to be at least a little creative to win the big one and that's also where Roos stands head and shoulders above Lyon. Lyon wasn't creative enough or inspirational enough to get the job done.

Roos also left a great legacy at the Swans. When Lyon left St Kilda he not only left a vacuum but he showed his reptilian side by telling supporters and the club and the players 'your era is over'. His negativity throughout 2011 was a cancer.

fair comments imho.....accurate and fair......the guy showed himself to be a creep....

[BigMart]

Possibly Scollop

But I think Ross deserves a bit more credit... For folding back and frontal pressure.. Devised in 2009

He is an astute footy brain I am no doubt.

At that time, Roos was a great footy coach indeed... Lyon and Longmore... Tudor too, would have learned plenty.

I find it amusing when poster down play GT to make Ross seem like a coaching god.

He had a nice list... With perhaps 6-8 A Graders

I will never forgive him for giving up Luke Ball for zero... A club disaster

Clarke and Maguire gone for nothing picks... May as well of kept them?

It tore some fabric IMO and undid the sense of loyalty GT created. The famous meeting of the future stars in 2003 was undone, because the coach delisted 3

Basically .... In 2009
Outs: Ball, Maguire, Clarke
Ins: Lovett, W.Johnson, J.Smith

Some real wins there....

[Teflon]

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\outl0\strokewidth0 \strokec2 To me I saw danger signs when I asked GT if he would step aside and he blankly stated : there was no one better. Horse shyte and history shows us that. Right then I thought we nay have a megalomaniac on our hands and we did.\
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Fluffy words on corporate KPI talk don't cut it when the whips crack tactically in finals - he was caught short often but had a brilliant group (as Guerra rightly points out) that covered for this. \
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For those suggesting that's "leadership" or somehow we should've put this nutter in as Pres (when again all he has shown he wanted to do was fight Demetriou.... not a smart move) must be joking. \
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Some on here still but this guys spin and want him back..... scary\
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As an ex assistant under Thomas told me to my face: "that guy f@rked your club"\
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He'd had a few.... was sacked by Lyon (whom he also said was a super coach) but like Guerra he would know\
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I've said all along - Thomas for 1 year, stability after Blight disaster was the best outcome...... but when Grant got the reigns he was having none of that. \
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Just another in a long line that decided to use OUR club as his "play thing"\
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Thank god he's gone. \
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[The Redeemer]

From my perspective, he is correct and is why we changed coaches at the end of 2006.

We had no defensive capabilities. We could not stop good sides and slow down the game.

Similar to Essendon under Matthew Knights however with obviously much more success.

[BigMart]

He had limited tactical ability... And admitted as much to me in the pre season of 06

He told me that Rendell was the strategist and board man... He marshalled the troops

[whiskers3614]

He had limited tactical ability... And admitted as much to me in the pre season of 06

He told me that Rendell was the strategist and board man... He marshalled the troops

Tactical ability or otherwise don't reckon our list would have been as shot or our premiership count any lower if we had kept him instead of supercoach!

[meher baba]

Teflon: if you still can't get over whatever it was that you think GT did to you, there is hope: psychology services are now listed on Medicare and cover most of the average fee.

Seriously: you coming onto this thread with this tired nonsense is about predictable as a Carlton loss.

GT did not f--- the club. The club did pretty well while he was there and it certainly went very well for 4 years after he was sacked. He left the playing list in a much better state than Lyon.

Hate him all you want, but please try to keep it real.

[BigMart]

In fairness

It's an opinion of GT shared by most of the footy community .... Outside of the club.... Generally by those who don't understand his full effect
Or
Those who didn't like him because he stood up to norms?

One of those norms was the StK was meant to be s***, and ripe for the picking (poaching)
In 2004 his side lost its pity and many became jealous of how it was formed and the fact he was coaching them... Deemed unworthy by the fraternity

It's funny how a lot of his initiatives are now common place in AFL clubs
I can think of at least 6 practises he started

[HitTheBoundary]

I agree with Stinger we would've won that game if not for the crowd invasion.
And I still have nightmares over Guerra's "airy". (As opposed to his "hairy".)

I thought GT was great for getting the players to believe in themselves, with a bit more luck he'd be a premiership coach.

[Wayne42]

I wouldn't take any notice of someone who wears a wig, what a vain knob jockey, what a joke.

Too bad for GT he pissed of the umpires and the AFL and Caro...

[stinger]

I wouldn't take any notice of someone who wears a wig, what a vain knob jockey, what a joke.

this

[bigcarl]

Course he's going to bag GT. GT sacked him. No surprises there. Good on him for reinventing himself as a defender though

[stevie]

The crowd invasion was in the first qtr! Lot of game time after that. Unless we got 6 goals up it was always gonna be tough.

I still wonder about a deliberate out of bounds that was never given against Chad Cornes in the dying minutes. Was on our forward flank and I think Roo may have been the recipient if the whistle had've been blown. From memory, Cornes taps it out with no intention of keeping it in. Nowadays would be pinged severely.

[Teflon]

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\f0\fs22 \cf2 \cb3 \expnd0\expndtw0\kerning0
\outl0\strokewidth0 \strokec2 Mehee babble - spare us all your love for Thomas\
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Honestly, we have ex Assistant coaches and NOW players giving us FACTUAL accounts of Thomas and you are still in denial???\
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Don't play the man you fool - give us some FACTS not your "inside scoop" of corporate drivel\
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I'm not surprised you love GT so much - your love of flowery fantasy would see you do well on many Boards\
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Again in the words of HIS assistant coach (not me dufis) he "farked our club"\
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You tell him about "corporate life"\
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Get a clue - Tassie has put you further behind it seems...}