Watters needs to stop kidding himself

[bobmurray]

We are crap..Scott knows it...maybe he is not allowed to fill us up with youth...he is not allowed to say we are rebuilding...

I can't believe the Bulldogs are ahead of us in the rebuilding stakes..i can't believe they have a better midfield than we do..if that is true then we are going nowhere any season soon...

[Greg T]

We just missed out getting someone like Malthouse ,
That's what we needed to take the club forward and keep us
on the road to success .
Seems to be many elements in the club,as the Invisible man(president)
Overpaid CEO,and the like who seem to want to take us back to the Stone Age.
Inexperienced and unproven people in major admin roles at the club.
If we could only take a leaf out of Collingwood for a proven formula.
They just don't mediocrity like we do..

[Greg T]

We are crap..Scott knows it...maybe he is not allowed to fill us up with youth...he is not allowed to say we are rebuilding...

I can't believe the Bulldogs are ahead of us in the rebuilding stakes..i can't believe they have a better midfield than we do..if that is true then we are going nowhere any season soon...

They aren't ,we have a habit of doing this ,embarrassing ...

[Teflon]

Thanks Dragit - saved me.

These people living off Milnes glory days.....FFS if we do that we will merely delay the inevitable re-build.

Hes done - time to move on.

550+ goals means he has some credits in the bank. He's down on last year but he's got some company there. There should be plenty of places up for grabs before Milne's.

Nearly half a year below par = credits over.

Sorry but this isnt about individuals its about our club and I for one want to see the TEAM move forward.

I dont think we can continue to carry a small forward specialist who isnt hitting the scoreboard AND who also isnt their developing to be part of our next tilt.

We cant just argue away shocking games like tonights as if nothing needs to change - we need to do something before we are left further behind.......some people still believe these "stars" are playing like they are on their prime....................not any more.

[dragit]

Thanks Dragit - saved me.

These people living off Milnes glory days.....FFS if we do that we will merely delay the inevitable re-build.

Hes done - time to move on.

550+ goals means he has some credits in the bank. He's down on last year but he's got some company there. There should be plenty of places up for grabs before Milne's.

Not one good game so far this year... Do you think we should just meander along with underperforming 33yo's till round 23?
Milne is a champion of the club, but has also been granted plenty of 'credit' over the years...
We're rebuilding, the party is over.
Any veteran consistently under performing is keeping out a potential player of the future, @ 2 - 7 we just can't afford that.

[plugger66]

Milne isnt the problem. Its the midfield. When we lose we get smashed in that position and its going to get worse. By the way people wanting up to 6 changes are going to be disappointed and also people wanting guys in from sandy who havent played are also going to be disappointed. i suppose if you dont play and were reagarded as a worse player than those who did you seem to suddenly be better without playing. Well that isnt how it works. I expect no more than 3 changes. No idea yet apart from hayes.

[Johnny Member]

We're rebuilding.

Picking a team to win each week is not how you rebuild.

Making changes during the match to pinch 4 points is not how you rebuild.

And fielding a team of kids is not how you rebuild.


You play the old blokes, so the kids can learn. The old blokes cop the tags and take best defenders, whilst the kids get the opportunity to learn the trade.

[Johnny Member]

And you try to be consistent with your style and structures, whether you're winning or not - so everyone learns them.

[plugger66]

We're rebuilding.

Picking a team to win each week is not how you rebuild.

Making changes during the match to pinch 4 points is not how you rebuild.

And fielding a team of kids is not how you rebuild.


You play the old blokes, so the kids can learn. The old blokes cop the tags and take best defenders, whilst the kids get the opportunity to learn the trade.

Exactly right so people wanting old guys out just dont get it.

[dragit]

We're rebuilding.

Picking a team to win each week is not how you rebuild.

Making changes during the match to pinch 4 points is not how you rebuild.

And fielding a team of kids is not how you rebuild.


You play the old blokes, so the kids can learn. The old blokes cop the tags and take best defenders, whilst the kids get the opportunity to learn the trade.

Exactly right so people wanting old guys out just dont get it.

No-one is saying "old guys out", but any player consistently under performing should make way. Milera gets dropped after each poor game, Milne has had 8 now, Saad ordinary but much better the last 3 weeks... Kicking long range goals & tackling like a madman.
You said a couple of weeks ago that Milne had about 3-4 weeks of credits left... which was pretty generous. I reckon 10 games gifted in credits is too many personally. 10 games we haven't seen Curren, Shenton or Ledger... Who may or may not be any good, lets find out.

[plugger66]

We're rebuilding.

Picking a team to win each week is not how you rebuild.

Making changes during the match to pinch 4 points is not how you rebuild.

And fielding a team of kids is not how you rebuild.


You play the old blokes, so the kids can learn. The old blokes cop the tags and take best defenders, whilst the kids get the opportunity to learn the trade.

Exactly right so people wanting old guys out just dont get it.

No-one is saying "old guys out", but any player consistently under performing should make way. Milera gets dropped after each poor game, Milne has had 8 now, Saad ordinary but much better the last 3 weeks... Kicking long range goals & tackling like a madman.
You said a couple of weeks ago that Milne had about 3-4 weeks of credits left... which was pretty generous. I reckon 10 games gifted in credits is too many personally. 10 games we haven't seen Curren, Shenton or Ledger... Who may or may not be any good, lets find out.

I dont reckon he has been bad for 8 but its only my opinion. Others will disagree. The reason i think Milne should stay in is to help Saad in 2 ways. Milne get the best backman and he can teach on the ground. Not great reasons if as you think he has been poor. Also i think there are plenty in front of him who can be dropped but again its only my opinion. As for seeing young guys well the coaches do actually see them at sandy and may already have come to a conclusion on their ability.

[defacto]

This is the team I'd go with next week

B: Dempster, Simpkin, Wright
HB: Roberton, Stanley, Fisher
C: Webster, Armitage, Geary
HF: Montagna, Riewoldt, Dunell
F: Saad, Lee, Siposs

Foll: McEvoy, Steven, Ross
Int: Ledger, Ray, Curren, Newnes

Out: Hayes (inj), Jones, Maister, Gwilt, Milne, Hickey, Dal Santo
In: Armitage, Curren, Lee, Dunell, Ledger, Wright, Simpkin

It's sad to see a club legend in Milne on the outer, but he's not giving enough to justify his spot and he's not going to be part of our next good team. Gwilt is hopeless as a defender and is competing with Roberton and Webster for the rebounding half back roles. Give the spot to the younger players with more upside.

lol simpkin and ledger are not AFL quality

jones will be sent back to the VFL

dal santo and fisher need a rocket, said it after round 1

[southernsaint]

Simpkin had a very good season last year but was injured during the pre-season. He is AFL standard. Once he is back from injury and finds form in the VFL he will be back on the other back flank with roberton.

[HitTheBoundary]

We're rebuilding.

Picking a team to win each week is not how you rebuild.

Making changes during the match to pinch 4 points is not how you rebuild.

And fielding a team of kids is not how you rebuild.


You play the old blokes, so the kids can learn. The old blokes cop the tags and take best defenders, whilst the kids get the opportunity to learn the trade.

+1

[Quixote]

The big one for me is Maister. Unfortunately for him - as he seems a really decent bloke - he should never play seniors ever, ever again. I tend to agree with the "playing old blokes to help and teach the young blokes whilst rebuilding" theory; however, Maister is just too s*** to be playing and Tom Lee isn't exactly a kid. Straight swap required immediately.

[Quixote]

The other one is of course the midfield. Where we were consistently hammered by the Doggies. Let's not lump all the blame on the mids though; our ruck division was out pointed consistently also.

MSG - Agree on Jones. Enough is enough with him.

[lloyd21]

Guys calling for Simpkin are you kidding .


Had a poor preseason , body not right. Fisher the same ,but has experience to carry him thru.

The changes are being kept small to give the young players blocks of games with experienced guys around them.

We keep repeating the same subject , 10years of being up there the system rewards failure ,we are not good enough for long enough especially midfield once the rotations .

Our coach knows, our recruiters know it.
We have recruit at least 7 mids over the next 2 years this guys will rotate mid/half forward/half back.
Just have to patient

[samuraisaint]

This is the team I'd go with next week

B: Dempster, Simpkin, Wright
HB: Roberton, Stanley, Fisher
C: Webster, Armitage, Geary
HF: Montagna, Riewoldt, Dunell
F: Saad, Lee, Siposs

Foll: McEvoy, Steven, Ross
Int: Ledger, Ray, Curren, Newnes

Out: Hayes (inj), Jones, Maister, Gwilt, Milne, Hickey, Dal Santo
In: Armitage, Curren, Lee, Dunell, Ledger, Wright, Simpkin

It's sad to see a club legend in Milne on the outer, but he's not giving enough to justify his spot and he's not going to be part of our next good team. Gwilt is hopeless as a defender and is competing with Roberton and Webster for the rebounding half back roles. Give the spot to the younger players with more upside.

You'd drop Hickey would you? If you are selecting side on youth, development AND merit, I would go with Hickey over McEvoy.

[samuraisaint]

This is the team I'd go with next week

B: Dempster, Simpkin, Wright
HB: Roberton, Stanley, Fisher
C: Webster, Armitage, Geary
HF: Montagna, Riewoldt, Dunell
F: Saad, Lee, Siposs

Foll: McEvoy, Steven, Ross
Int: Ledger, Ray, Curren, Newnes

Out: Hayes (inj), Jones, Maister, Gwilt, Milne, Hickey, Dal Santo
In: Armitage, Curren, Lee, Dunell, Ledger, Wright, Simpkin

It's sad to see a club legend in Milne on the outer, but he's not giving enough to justify his spot and he's not going to be part of our next good team. Gwilt is hopeless as a defender and is competing with Roberton and Webster for the rebounding half back roles. Give the spot to the younger players with more upside.

lol simpkin and ledger are not AFL quality

jones will be sent back to the VFL


dal santo and fisher need a rocket, said it after round 1

Simpkin not AFL quality (think you mean standard) !?!

[Scollop]

I dont reckon he has been bad for 8 but its only my opinion. Others will disagree. The reason i think Milne should stay in is to help Saad in 2 ways. Milne get the best backman and he can teach on the ground. Not great reasons if as you think he has been poor. Also i think there are plenty in front of him who can be dropped but again its only my opinion. As for seeing young guys well the coaches do actually see them at sandy and may already have come to a conclusion on their ability.

Please tell me what's the benefit when a senior player cannot lead by example? There's no point trying to claim that he can teach - that's the forward coaches role and the coaches job!! And Saad needs to learn on the best backmen, so again, how is it of benefit to Saad with Milne in the team?

Milne has been average in some and poor in others, and as you say he is not alone. I'm sure he will have a few good games if he continues to play and take the spot of a youngster that needs game time, but that is not in the interests of the team going forward

[mad saint guy]

You'd drop Hickey would you? If you are selecting side on youth, development AND merit, I would go with Hickey over McEvoy.

Hickey seemed to hurt himself late in the game last night. Any sign of injury and he should be put in cotton wool. We've seen what happens to young talls who are played too much too early.

[mad saint guy]

lol simpkin and ledger are not AFL quality

jones will be sent back to the VFL

dal santo and fisher need a rocket, said it after round 1

Simpkin had a great year in 2012 and is definitely AFL quality. Ledger has been good in his extremely limited AFL opportunities and is regularly getting 30 touches and kicking goals at Sandy. He might not turn out to be AFL quality, but we don't know until he's given a crack.

In Ledger's one and only senior game where he wasn't subbed on or off he had 21 disposals, 5 clearances, 1 goal and 1 goal assist. If Jones had a game like that everyone would rant and rave that he's back to his best.

[dragit]

Was just thinking about all these coaches that have come from assisting Malthouse.

I know he is rated highly… but personally I think his success has more to do with being at highly resourced clubs and being granted 4 X longer than most people…

Who are all the protege's & how are they going? both in terms of literal success, win/loss and tactically?

Our very own Scott Watters, Mark Neeld, Guy McKenna, who else has cut their teeth via Mick's genius tutelage?

I realise that these 3 guys have taken over pretty average lists, but still question this perceived mastermind factory that is learning from Malthouse…

[tony74]

Anyone who doesn't think Scott is the right coach for our club just watch the interview on 360 tonight. He is the one to take us forward.

[PakenhamSaint]

I get the impression with Scott is he knows where he wants the team to be going, win loss or draw.