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dragit wrote:
Dal, Joey, Milne all in our bottom 5 for disposal efficiency, yet clearly some of our most skillful players
Where our top 5 are Blake, McEvoy, Ray, Clarke & Dempster - a lot of safe backline/switching passes you would assume.
CJ's % is pretty decent too at 74%, but only because he refuses to kick the ball, with good reason as he is clearly one of the worst kicks in the comp.
Another misleading stat on pure numbers is clearances, last year Geelong and a few other very good sides were right down the bottom, while Port, Brisbane and GCS were up the top with Sydney. Of course clearances are vital, winning the stat obviously doesn't win you games… 1 quality clearance would out-weigh 4-5 scrappy ones…
agree. milne, dal and joey are great kicks. they just get most of their ball in serious traffic and congestion under serious pressure .
so really its apples and oranges. the backline guys have good % but often they are in the clear kicking to a guy in the clear sideways or backwards.
8856brother wrote:Saad wasn't setting the world alight in the VFL by anyone's standards. Gets a chance, and guess what?
Yes let's ignore his amazing year in the VFL last year and good pre-season
Ledger has if you believe the goss an insufficient tank to run out games (he will develop this over time) whereas Saad at 22 is in his prime and much fitter.
Ledger impressed myself pre-season...but you would have to say the club has handled blooding of players very well.
On the selection of Newnes I thought WTF. But when he played you could see why.
Ledger will get a crack when he deserves it and opportunity presents. Asa midfielder opportunity is limited.
Personally I am a Ray fan...but Ray has been in and out of the team as competition is fierce.
good sensible post...
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
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8856brother wrote:Saad wasn't setting the world alight in the VFL by anyone's standards. Gets a chance, and guess what?
Yes let's ignore his amazing year in the VFL last year and good pre-season
Ledger has if you believe the goss an insufficient tank to run out games (he will develop this over time) whereas Saad at 22 is in his prime and much fitter.
Ledger impressed myself pre-season...but you would have to say the club has handled blooding of players very well.
On the selection of Newnes I thought WTF. But when he played you could see why.
Ledger will get a crack when he deserves it and opportunity presents. Asa midfielder opportunity is limited.
Personally I am a Ray fan...but Ray has been in and out of the team as competition is fierce.
I am also a big fan of Faz. Good football player.
p.s sensible. sensible u say! we cant have that on this forum., ban it Mods!
P66 has solved the Ledger mystery over on the 'Rat Pack' thread...
It's Dave, man. Will you open up? I got the stuff with me! -------Who?
Dave, man. Open up ------------------------------------------ -----Dave???
Yeah, Dave. ---------------------------------------------------------Dave's not here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOiG1hAr ... detailpage
skeptic wrote: ↑Tue 30 Jan 2024 8:07pmCongrats to Dave McNamara - hereby dubbed the KNOWINGEST KNOW IT ALL of Saintsational
Eastern wrote:From what I can gather Ledger is an inside/outside midfielder (Scott W seems to like players that can do both). That would mean that he's competing with;
Lenny Hayes, David Armitage, Nick DalSanto, Jack Steven, Brendon Goddard, Clint Jones for a spot. Who, from that group would he replace?
Jones is an outside midfielder? He's a tagger and a tagger only.
ShanghaiSaint wrote:
Con Gorozidis wrote:I reckon the Sam Dunell elevation could have been the last straw for Tom Ledger's state of mind.
With Newnes Steven Armo Cripps Markworth ahead of him for midfield spots I would say he will be looking for a move to Freo if he can get one.
is Ledger that good? I have seen a few of his games at sandy didn't jump up at me...
He's a ball magnet, gets amongst the goals and is very quick but he gets a bit bomby at times and sometimes those kicks end up in opposition hands. Not sure why he hasn't really gotten an opportunity yet but when he does he will be a quality player for us.
CJ can play as an in and under mid and is a very good competitor when needed there, his kicking can let him down but he is able to play several roles on field so is picked because he is adaptable. He has pace and endurance and can play a variety of roles when needed that's why he's always picked when fit. Ledger looks messy with his field kicking but should improve with time and I believe we may have elevated Dunnell to lock him away from the grasp of outside interest and show faith to get him on board long term while the pull of Essendon must appeal. With an ageing list those guys currently at Sandy will know that biding time and honing skills isn't in vain long term. i can't see Ledger getting a run at WCE too easily either.
gringo wrote:...I believe we may have elevated Dunnell to lock him away from the grasp of outside interest and show faith to get him on board long term while the pull of Essendon must appeal.
aren't rookies usually on a two-year contract anyway? so he's ours until the end of next year no matter what.
I really dont believe this 'pull of essendon" kind of talk. I mean I know the media and the fans love the romance of the father-son. But often the son wants to live his own life and doesnt want to live in some father-son shadow. Just as likely his old man also wants to him to do his own thing. The fact is the Bombers had pick 11 in the Rookie Draft (the pick directly before us) and went for some bloke called Lachlan Dalgliesh. Why the heck should Sam want to go there when the Saints showed faith in him and then gave him an elevation? I think real life loyalty based on actual people/coaches/teammates is stronger than fantasy/romance stuff dreamt up by fans and the media.
gringo wrote:...I believe we may have elevated Dunnell to lock him away from the grasp of outside interest and show faith to get him on board long term while the pull of Essendon must appeal.
aren't rookies usually on a two-year contract anyway? so he's ours until the end of next year no matter what.
Essendon can go pull themselves
In Springfield, they're eating the dogs. The people that came in, they're eating the cats. They’re eating – they are eating the pets of the people that live there.
He made a mistake plugger, it's that. Simple.... Ross that is... David was outstanding at Sandy in 2009 and most certainly should have played in the 2009 finals series.... Especially considering his performance in R19
Just like by not Playing Ball in 2009.... Which he has admitted to since....
Structures or not... Eddy was ineffectual in all GF's ..... Selection error
Dempster was ineffectual as A 'defensive Fwd' ...... Selection error
MQualter in 2010..... Selection error
How do you know Armitage lacked run in 2009??? Was that stated, or is that a guess??
Ledger has very typical disposal stats of inside mids, he does kick under pressure a lot... He also uses his non preferred a lot.
I would suggest he has similar disposal ability to Jack Steven
What I will say, is the boy can certainly play. He is a natural ball winner, tough and carries the footy. He is in the top few players at Sandy easily.
gringo wrote:...I believe we may have elevated Dunnell to lock him away from the grasp of outside interest and show faith to get him on board long term while the pull of Essendon must appeal.
aren't rookies usually on a two-year contract anyway? so he's ours until the end of next year no matter what.
BigMart wrote:He made a mistake plugger, it's that. Simple.... Ross that is... David was outstanding at Sandy in 2009 and most certainly should have played in the 2009 finals series.... Especially considering his performance in R19
Just like by not Playing Ball in 2009.... Which he has admitted to since....
Structures or not... Eddy was ineffectual in all GF's ..... Selection error
Dempster was ineffectual as A 'defensive Fwd' ...... Selection error
MQualter in 2010..... Selection error
How do you know Armitage lacked run in 2009??? Was that stated, or is that a guess??
Ledger has very typical disposal stats of inside mids, he does kick under pressure a lot... He also uses his non preferred a lot.
I would suggest he has similar disposal ability to Jack Steven
What I will say, is the boy can certainly play. He is a natural ball winner, tough and carries the footy. He is in the top few players at Sandy easily.
I suppose the question is do you ever answer a question if it proves you are incorrect. I think the answer is no. You are one of the grest hindsighters on here. I said Armo may have lacked run or spread or something else. Why did Armo get 13 games the year before if RL didnt play young guys. Common sense suggests Armo did lack something the next year or he would have played him. Coaches make many mistakes. I reckon Malthouse and Thompson did to in 2009 and 2010 or we that good and could get that close but only RL made mistakes.
Did I say the 'only' Ross Lyon made mistakes..... Of which he made very few as his record suggests
Are you seriously calling me a hindsighter.... On one hand I go to early with NO proof, but if proved correct I am a hindsighter... OK... Are you suggesting I never complained about the GF selections at the time.... I suggest we look through some old posts...
What about recruiting, hindsight also?? Maybe we have a look back also???
And what was the question I haven't answered???
Injuries played the part of Armo's selection in 2008 and good form.... Fiora also played a lot in 08 what does that mean.
And common sense.... So really your just assuming.... Perhaps like Ball...Lyon just didn't rate him high enough
BigMart wrote:Did I say the 'only' Ross Lyon made mistakes..... Of which he made very few as his record suggests
Are you seriously calling me a hindsighter.... On one hand I go to early with NO proof, but if proved correct I am a hindsighter... OK... Are you suggesting I never complained about the GF selections at the time.... I suggest we look through some old posts...
What about recruiting, hindsight also?? Maybe we have a look back also???
And what was the question I haven't answered???
Injuries played the part of Armo's selection in 2008 and good form.... Fiora also played a lot in 08 what does that mean.
And common sense.... So really your just assuming.... Perhaps like Ball...Lyon just didn't rate him high enough
It is actually possible to go to early and be a hindsighter. You thought Cripps was no good because he didnt have a photo. I dont care how he has gone since but where is the logic in that. I would call that a stupid early call. You have also said ferguson will be HBF because of his build at 19. I then pointed out Max at the same age and there was no response. Another ridiculous early call. If I could be bothered there is probably plenty of others to like Simpkin, Stanley and so on.
As for hindsight well most of your posts are just that. One of the best was Parker from Sydney. Wait until he looks good and then basically say how could other clubs miss him. Why didnt you say that at the time of recruiting. The answer is you are a hindsighter.
bakes wrote:Armitage could have been the difference in the '09 and '10 GF's.
He is a gun now, and he was also a gun then.
He certainly wasnt a gun back then. Anyway if you want to beleive that and make yourseld feel even worse then go ahead.
Wouldn't even call Armo a gun now. A very very good mid and getting better almost every game, and could quite possibly be a gun, but IMHO not yet.
In 09 and 10 had potential but wasn't even a very good player, maybe a GOP.
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
Maybe if you had proved me wrong with Cripps or Ferguson (or Raymond or Sweeney or Howard) you could actually use those examples (I would like you to point out where I said he was no good because he had no photo) again a stretch of the truth to prove your point, stick to the facts man....
Perhaps use you much loved quote button, oh that's right you can't because it doesn't support your argument well enough does it???
Or perhaps that's just what you perceive and you write it as fact??
He seemed to go alright in R19 in 2009..... Played one of the better individual games of the season?? Did
Was dropped by R21?? Probably tried to get the ball too much, rather than just negating??
Did his natural talent not come to him until he was 23?? I would suggest he's always had ability (he was an AA junior, a senior premiership player at 17, an AIS graduate, and a top ten DP) he's just gets more opportunity now... He was outstanding in the VFL right from the start. And the rubbish about his running ability, where is that crap Actually coming from?? Opinions on here based on what exactly? His possession count?? What a crock, that relates to TOG and time in midfield.... He was one of the better gut runners drafted, with exceptional repeat effort and strong endurance base
Lucky for Dyson Heppell (and Essendon) James Hird doesn't take into account years in the system when picking a side
BigMart wrote:Maybe if you had proved me wrong with Cripps or Ferguson (or Raymond or Sweeney or Howard) you could actually use those examples (I would like you to point out where I said he was no good because he had no photo) again a stretch of the truth to prove your point, stick to the facts man....
Perhaps use you much loved quote button, oh that's right you can't because it doesn't support your argument well enough does it???
Or perhaps that's just what you perceive and you write it as fact??
I'm not sure Armo is a gun yet either, he's solid and has the odd outstanding game but not quite there yet but still love the way he goes about it. A bit to go yet like a full season in the midfield and then he may be a gun, he was still a work in progress early on despite a couple of breakout games.
gringo wrote:I'm not sure Armo is a gun yet either, he's solid and has the odd outstanding game but not quite there yet but still love the way he goes about it. A bit to go yet like a full season in the midfield and then he may be a gun, he was still a work in progress early on despite a couple of breakout games.
Agree with this post. Swan, Mitchell, Hayes, Judd etc are guns. Love Armo and the way he goes about it, he is getting there but has only really just nailed his spot...
Strength through Loyalty
Go those mighty Sainters!!
To refresh your memory I used the words surprising, interesting....
Armo will be top three in the B&F so that puts him a touch better than solid.
Didnt look for a quote. I know what you said about Cripps and the photo. Interesting is when you said he dogged it. Another great positive expression that would get you belted at a local footy club if you said that to a players face. How many 10 plus tackles has Schneider had in a game again. You have to stop lying to support your own arguments.
And yes Armo is much better than solid this year and has a big chance of being top 3 in the B&F but there are 7 games to go. Lenny hasnt even won it yet. But again you say he win be in the top 3 just like Lenny will retire at the end of the year. Do you know the word maybe or could? Now back to you paine of glass.
I said that about Cripps almost a year after he was drafted, don't merge the two to strengthen your point!
It was you who used the term 'dogged it' (quoting GT) when referring to what I said..... I simply said he stopped short of a contest.... Twice.... And stand by it, he's soft for an AFL listed player... So embellishing again, never mind...
Still yet to prove me wrong with that one are you, I know you're desperately wanting the kid to show something.... So yo can belittle me (on a fan forum of all things) problem is, I hope he does well too, doesn't change the fact he's struggled so far
Secondly
I have played footy since 1986 I have said many things in the heat of battle, you on the other hand have never and have absolutely NO idea of the language used, we are not umpires and are not sensitive to critisism, if you've never been in a contest or kicked a ball in anger, you may struggle to understand. Sometimes some pretty confronting things need to be said, but you wouldn't know that.
The types of players that need to hear that, are not usually the ones who 'smack people in the mouth' if there's truth to the comment they would/should accept it it.
Thirdly
I was guessing about Shneiders stats, knowing full well he has been our best front Half tacklers since 2009 and I remember him being highlighted for double figure tackles... But having laid 305 tackles in 75 games is a nice effort. Not far from the truth. Remember you read the whole thing wrong and made an arse of yourself.
Fourth
Lenny is yet to re-commit in 2013 to my knowledge. You've won that argument when or if he does. I am not he only one surprised by his ability to come back so well, in the same vote I also understand he has been running head to head and haven't been tagged in 2012. So his opponents performances are noted.
He has been great in 2012, does that alone mean he will play on??
Lastly
Do you know why you've not quoted
You're speaking rubbish!!
