Do you know what, I think we're going to take the choccies on this one.
Not such a huge call, I know, but for all the murmur about bogey teams we have one huge advantage over Port this season - their premiership player and ex-defence coach of 4 years.
Saints v Port Team
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InkerSaint
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Zac Attack
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But seriously if McQ plays I will lose it.GrumpyOne wrote:I think Big Ben is safe.Zac Attack wrote:Do you think that any player would really feel pressured by McQ though?dcstkfc wrote:Should take Armo's spot thenSainterK wrote:He is applying pressure, making people actually earn their spots, he can keep doing exactly what he is doing.Zac Attack wrote:go away MCQ
I hope it's Geary for Polo by the way
Right so far......correct me if im wrong...
People who cannot run on wednesday, rarely fly interstate to play on the weekend.....
Armo has been playing the mini role.....that rossy loves......and he'll love it more with mini back....bog in the twos....
Armo is clearly on the nose for the coach, its ball deja vu...
I wonder if armo will recieve the same vitriolic rubbish when he leaves....
People who cannot run on wednesday, rarely fly interstate to play on the weekend.....
Armo has been playing the mini role.....that rossy loves......and he'll love it more with mini back....bog in the twos....
Armo is clearly on the nose for the coach, its ball deja vu...
I wonder if armo will recieve the same vitriolic rubbish when he leaves....
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Dr Spaceman
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Well based on your assessment the answer would be no.BigMart wrote:Right so far......correct me if im wrong...
People who cannot run on wednesday, rarely fly interstate to play on the weekend.....
Armo has been playing the mini role.....that rossy loves......and he'll love it more with mini back....bog in the twos....
Armo is clearly on the nose for the coach, its ball deja vu...
I wonder if armo will recieve the same vitriolic rubbish when he leaves....
You're suggesting Ross will get rid of him (Ross said he wanted to keep Ball)
And if Armo was to go he would not be doing so for big bucks; in fact he wouldn't be offered big bucks by anyone (Ball of course saw $$$)
So why would posters give him any vitriol?
He wanted to keep ball on his terms....not market terms.
This was illustrated and has been well and truly proven...
What ross thought ball was worth as a footballer was wrong, because apparantly he is worth midfield time, and midfield money......so he deserved his higher offer....well done to him
Armo probably will think the same....hopefully if it does eventuate, we actually recieve some compo...
This was illustrated and has been well and truly proven...
What ross thought ball was worth as a footballer was wrong, because apparantly he is worth midfield time, and midfield money......so he deserved his higher offer....well done to him
Armo probably will think the same....hopefully if it does eventuate, we actually recieve some compo...
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Dr Spaceman
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Certainly not trying to reopen the whole Ball thing. Clearly people have quite varied views on that and consensus will never be reached.BigMart wrote:He wanted to keep ball on his terms....not market terms.
This was illustrated and has been well and truly proven...
What ross thought ball was worth as a footballer was wrong, because apparantly he is worth midfield time, and midfield money......so he deserved his higher offer....well done to him
Armo probably will think the same....hopefully if it does eventuate, we actually recieve some compo...
Just saying that if Armo is not at St Kilda next year, either because he can't get a contract or can't get a game, there would be no reason for people to unleash vitriol on him, which is what you were suggesting.
Last edited by Dr Spaceman on Fri 08 Jul 2011 5:31pm, edited 1 time in total.
lol - so Ball, in market terms was worth pick 30, but could command $500k a year.BigMart wrote:He wanted to keep ball on his terms....not market terms.
yeah noice market.
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
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stkildathunda
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Thats called an absolute steal....and shrewd recruiting by the pies.
And some seriously dumb negotiating by our recruiting dept. Who btw are all sacked as a result.
2009....... The gf loss must have messed with their heads so much, they couldnt think clearly during trade week.....thats the excuse i would use anyway.....surely you wouldnt want to be that dumb all the time...
And some seriously dumb negotiating by our recruiting dept. Who btw are all sacked as a result.
2009....... The gf loss must have messed with their heads so much, they couldnt think clearly during trade week.....thats the excuse i would use anyway.....surely you wouldnt want to be that dumb all the time...
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Dr Spaceman
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disagree joffaboy. The market worked in the ball case. Ball came as a "package" which took into account 2 competing attributes - his footy ability and his hefty pay check. So this ws weighed up but all the clubs and as a "value proposition" and he came out at pick 30.joffaboy wrote:lol - so Ball, in market terms was worth pick 30, but could command $500k a year.BigMart wrote:He wanted to keep ball on his terms....not market terms.
yeah noice market.
I actually think this makes logical sense. Clearly he was a better player than 30th in the draft - but when u then take in to account his hefy pay check - which is a big negative - it would lower his market value down to 30. Ok pies have got good value - but i imagine the downside is they now have a serious salary cap issue.
The draft picks of 2001...... Ball, Judd and Hodge have aways been compared. Two of them - Ball and Judd - chose to leave their original club. Both of them got to go to their chosen club. To his credit, Judd stated that he wanted the club he was leaving to gain reasonable compensation for him - this occurred. That did not happen in the other case.BigMart wrote:He wanted to keep ball on his terms....not market terms.
This was illustrated and has been well and truly proven...
What ross thought ball was worth as a footballer was wrong, because apparantly he is worth midfield time, and midfield money......so he deserved his higher offer....well done to him
Armo probably will think the same....hopefully if it does eventuate, we actually recieve some compo...
Luke Ball was not just some naive kid - he and his manager engineered his move away from St Kilda to the club of his choice, at the price of his choice. The fact that St Kilda were going to get screwed over in the deal was immaterial to them.
Unlike you, I don't miss LB at St Kilda and do not think he gave us much extra - after all, we got closer to a premiership the year after he left than before - if anything, freeing up the $ we were paying him in the salary cap have allowed us (via the tainted Lovett sacking) to keep our guns and may even allow us to have a crack at another gun next trade period.
Hird... The unflushable one is now... just a turd...
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Dr Spaceman
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And the same applies moreso to Geary. The guy's missed far too much footy already and needs to be running around for the Zebs tomorrow.Sobraz wrote:Would have liked to have seen Siposs in, in place of Gamble, who's crap...
However, if he's not going to be a late change, I hope he doesn't travel as the emergency, as I'd like to see him get a few kicks for Sandy tomorow..
Lovett cost us 1m over three years....paid out and counted in two years of the cap....not sure how we ended up better financially....very similar to the fevola debarcle...
Ball did not leave stk because he wanted to leave the club
He wanter better career opportunities...
I left a school last year after 10 years and I loved the joint.....but went to a 'better school, in a higher position, at higher pay'
Should i have stayed, to be loyal to my friends, collegues and students at my old workplace.....or should i look out for my career and family first....
I did what anyone with half a brain does, i moved on......and played poker with my old mates last week...and caught up.
Ball did not leave stk because he wanted to leave the club
He wanter better career opportunities...
I left a school last year after 10 years and I loved the joint.....but went to a 'better school, in a higher position, at higher pay'
Should i have stayed, to be loyal to my friends, collegues and students at my old workplace.....or should i look out for my career and family first....
I did what anyone with half a brain does, i moved on......and played poker with my old mates last week...and caught up.
Well for starters Ball was asking for $500k a year, so by my reckoning that's $166k we were better off.BigMart wrote:Lovett cost us 1m over three years....paid out and counted in two years of the cap....not sure how we ended up better financially....
Obviously we screwed up in the Lovett debacle.... separate issue to the Ball one IMO.
Now you're just playing semantics. Ball chose to leave the club.Ball did not leave stk because he wanted to leave the club
He wanter better career opportunities...
I left a school last year after 10 years and I loved the joint.....but went to a 'better school, in a higher position, at higher pay'
Should i have stayed, to be loyal to my friends, collegues and students at my old workplace.....or should i look out for my career and family first....
I did what anyone with half a brain does, i moved on......and played poker with my old mates last week...and caught up.
I don't begrudge the fact that Ball left - you're the one that wishes he hadn't. It's the manner of him going that rankles with me.
Comparing it to what you or I might do in our respective industries does not equate to AFL as each industry is different - and professional sport is very different to other industries. It isn't comparing apples with apples. IMO a reasonable comparison is the Judd one that I previously mentioned.
Last edited by Richter on Fri 08 Jul 2011 6:24pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hird... The unflushable one is now... just a turd...
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Given this has turned into a thread on draft picks - and Ball v Judd v Hodge which Ball does not compete in, consider this:-
We currently have just 13 players on our list who were top 20 Draft picks.
Gram 19
McEvoy 9
Hayes 11
Clarke 8
Riewoldt 1
Gardiner 1
Goddard 1
Armitage 9
Koschitzke 2
Dal Santo 13
Ray 4
McQualter 7
Polo 20
4 of those have come from other clubs.
This is the price of our relative success on the field since 2004.
What we need is to keep our fingers crossed that some of our Draft picks outside the top 20 deliver well above their Draft pecking order.
The problem we have from here is that the drafts are now compromised by the entry of the 2 new sides.
In regards Ball, in 2009 he could not get a regular game with St Kilda on form - hence he was playing mainly in the VFL after being shown up as a liability in the Geelong game at Docklands where his only contribution was to come off the interchange unmarked and then putting the ball into the goal square for Gardiner to mark.
His papers were marked prior to and then because of that game.
He was confirmed as a liability.
We currently have just 13 players on our list who were top 20 Draft picks.
Gram 19
McEvoy 9
Hayes 11
Clarke 8
Riewoldt 1
Gardiner 1
Goddard 1
Armitage 9
Koschitzke 2
Dal Santo 13
Ray 4
McQualter 7
Polo 20
4 of those have come from other clubs.
This is the price of our relative success on the field since 2004.
What we need is to keep our fingers crossed that some of our Draft picks outside the top 20 deliver well above their Draft pecking order.
The problem we have from here is that the drafts are now compromised by the entry of the 2 new sides.
In regards Ball, in 2009 he could not get a regular game with St Kilda on form - hence he was playing mainly in the VFL after being shown up as a liability in the Geelong game at Docklands where his only contribution was to come off the interchange unmarked and then putting the ball into the goal square for Gardiner to mark.
His papers were marked prior to and then because of that game.
He was confirmed as a liability.