agreed to a certain point if he is holding it against the club...but are we becoming so precious that we can't just take on board the interesting aspects that these type of posts conjure ?degruch wrote:Oh, of course it's interesting...but to hold them against the club is drawing a long bow. **** hindsight alright.The Fireman wrote:**** hindsight, it is still interesting to imagine what may have been if certain draft picks had of been made.
3 Decisions That Cost The Club History
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
-
The Fireman
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 13330
- Joined: Mon 08 Mar 2004 11:54pm
- Has thanked: 680 times
- Been thanked: 1966 times
Last edited by The Fireman on Wed 30 Mar 2011 9:51pm, edited 1 time in total.
i think blind freddie's seeing eye dog would have picked rioli and jack before the two we got......and jack darling this year....i know i would have...and i ain't using hindsight...said so before each of the drafts and expressed my displeasure immediately after we passed on those three boys...
but...
do i hope ammo, mac and crippa succeed.??...f****** oath i do..
but...
do i hope ammo, mac and crippa succeed.??...f****** oath i do..
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
-
degruch
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 8948
- Joined: Mon 19 May 2008 4:29pm
- Location: Croydonia
- Has thanked: 146 times
- Been thanked: 237 times
Oh sure, but I think the negative reaction is more a case of repeating hindsight 'mistakes' over and over, can get up people's noses after a while. Most clubs have holes to fill, we are no different, not everyone's favourite opposition player can or would have filled those holes.The Fireman wrote:agreed to a certain point if he is holding it against the club...but are we becoming so precious that we can't just take on board the interesting aspects that these type of posts conjure ?degruch wrote:Oh, of course it's interesting...but to hold them against the club is drawing a long bow. **** hindsight alright.The Fireman wrote:**** hindsight, it is still interesting to imagine what may have been if certain draft picks had of been made.
Just because players are good at their respective clubs, doesn't mean they would of been good for us.
Sometimes there are mentors involved, specific coaches, friends, circumstances, environments....thinks that just help them click....that all contribute to the said player becoming what he is now.
Jack may not have blossomed along side Nick, he certainly didn't blossom until after Richo left.
Cyril is the type of player we need for sure, but I reckon McEvoy is the kind of ruckman they have been crying out for also.
Sometimes there are mentors involved, specific coaches, friends, circumstances, environments....thinks that just help them click....that all contribute to the said player becoming what he is now.
Jack may not have blossomed along side Nick, he certainly didn't blossom until after Richo left.
Cyril is the type of player we need for sure, but I reckon McEvoy is the kind of ruckman they have been crying out for also.
-
Dr Spaceman
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 14102
- Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2009 11:07pm
- Location: Newtown Institute of Saintology
- Has thanked: 104 times
- Been thanked: 62 times
Jack Riewoldt went at pick 13.stinger wrote:i think blind freddie's seeing eye dog would have picked rioli and jack before the two we got......and jack darling this year....i know i would have...and i ain't using hindsight...said so before each of the drafts and expressed my displeasure immediately after we passed on those three boys...
but...
do i hope ammo, mac and crippa succeed.??...f****** oath i do..
Two of those taken before him are no longer at their original clubs (Thorp & Everitt)
Looks like quite a few experts got it wrong!
-
Moods
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 4951
- Joined: Fri 05 Jun 2009 3:05pm
- Has thanked: 343 times
- Been thanked: 497 times
Did any of us think that picking Ball after the 05 season was stupid? I certainly didn't. Here was a midfielder who in 3 years of AFL footy had come runners up and won our B&F. He was fast - YES FAST!!! He was tough, he had good skills, and believe it or not he had penetration in his kicks. I recall many times in 04/05 that he would kick goals from 50m - set shots. Let's face it, we ALL loved Bally. I know I couldn't care less about Judd or Hodge back then.
What happened to him Rd 1 of 06 was very sad. He never came back the same player. IN hindsight making him captain at such a young age probably wasn't very wise. I suspect he trained too hard that pre season once he was made captain, and I also suspect he put too much pressure on himself to come back too early once he had sustained the injury. The smartest thing to have done (in hindsight) would have been to make Lenny a sole captain for 3-4 years until Roo or Ball was ready to take the reins. History tells us that neither was quite ready at the time it was give to them, and that GT's little experiment didn't work very well (although he'd probably claim it did)
Ppl talk about missed opportunities at drafts - I would argue that yes, in hindsight there have been some blunders, but what about Carlton and the tiges? They've had just as many early draft picks over the years and still haven't achieved half of what the saints had in the same period of time.
What happened to him Rd 1 of 06 was very sad. He never came back the same player. IN hindsight making him captain at such a young age probably wasn't very wise. I suspect he trained too hard that pre season once he was made captain, and I also suspect he put too much pressure on himself to come back too early once he had sustained the injury. The smartest thing to have done (in hindsight) would have been to make Lenny a sole captain for 3-4 years until Roo or Ball was ready to take the reins. History tells us that neither was quite ready at the time it was give to them, and that GT's little experiment didn't work very well (although he'd probably claim it did)
Ppl talk about missed opportunities at drafts - I would argue that yes, in hindsight there have been some blunders, but what about Carlton and the tiges? They've had just as many early draft picks over the years and still haven't achieved half of what the saints had in the same period of time.
-
True Blue Sainter
- Club Player
- Posts: 1906
- Joined: Fri 19 Mar 2004 5:47pm
- Has thanked: 4 times
- Been thanked: 17 times
Dr Spaceman wrote:Jack Riewoldt went at pick 13.stinger wrote:i think blind freddie's seeing eye dog would have picked rioli and jack before the two we got......and jack darling this year....i know i would have...and i ain't using hindsight...said so before each of the drafts and expressed my displeasure immediately after we passed on those three boys...
but...
do i hope ammo, mac and crippa succeed.??...f****** oath i do..
Two of those taken before him are no longer at their original clubs (Thorp & Everitt)
Looks like quite a few experts got it wrong!
i didn't....
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
-
Art Vandelay
- Club Player
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Sat 06 Oct 2007 1:45pm
-
MCG-Unit
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 3155
- Joined: Thu 11 Mar 2004 4:04pm
- Location: Land of the Giants
- Has thanked: 569 times
- Been thanked: 20 times
Well I had never before heard that Beverage said that..........Mr Magic wrote:Every time this topic comes up I post what John Beveridge had to say about it (to a room of about 50 people)MCG-Unit wrote:Maybe because the only way some know is to go on the assault - slam the poster rather than debate his point - that's why some have left these boards or hardly post
It's a wonder the great defender of the club hasn't come on the thread
The OP's no1 point is 100% IMO - they could have had both
Not sure about 2-3
WE wanted both Ball and Judd.
WCE let it be known that they were going to take Ball at pick #3 and that they were not interested in Judd because of his 'bad shoulders'.
We were aware that they were going to take Sampi and that Freo was going to take Polak with their next picks, so we took Ball at #2 thinking we had Judd with our pick #5.
History will show that WCE took Judd at pick #3 adn 'screwed us over.
We didn't rate Ball over Judd or Judd over Ball. We wanted both adn thought we were going to get both.
Some may want to diselieve what Beveridge said publicly.
Not me. I've got no reason to not believe him.
I had always heard and thought that the WA sides were very keen on Sampi and Polak at 3 & 4 - and the WCE were not going to take Ball at 3 then wait a year while he finished school in Vic.
Therefore if Judd went at 2 - followed by the 2 WA boys, then it was most likely Ball would still be there at 5
No Contract, No contact
-
kosifantutti23
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2388
- Joined: Fri 26 Sep 2008 12:55am
- Location: Horgen
Why did we take Riewoldt when we could have had Luke Livingstone.
Why did we take Goddard when we could have had Salopek
Why did we take Dal Santo when we could have had Shane Harvey
Why did we take Montagna when we could have had Henry Playfair
Why did we take Jimmy Gwilt when we could have had Ben Schwarze ( a brother and a cousin of players at that time)
Why take Sam Fisher when we could have had Brent LeCras.
Why did we take Goddard when we could have had Salopek
Why did we take Dal Santo when we could have had Shane Harvey
Why did we take Montagna when we could have had Henry Playfair
Why did we take Jimmy Gwilt when we could have had Ben Schwarze ( a brother and a cousin of players at that time)
Why take Sam Fisher when we could have had Brent LeCras.
Furtius Quo Rdelious
-
Dr Spaceman
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 14102
- Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2009 11:07pm
- Location: Newtown Institute of Saintology
- Has thanked: 104 times
- Been thanked: 62 times
Stupid comment.Art Vandelay wrote:How can anyone defend the selection of David Armitage?
The decision to draft Armo has been defended by many on here. And it has been criticised by at least as many .
You clearly think it was wrong but your post suggests there was no logic behind the decision to take him and clearly there was.
Don't confuse your view on the guy now with how he lined up against the other draftees back in 2006.
Really? We could of had all those, now I am really crosskosifantutti23 wrote:Why did we take Riewoldt when we could have had Luke Livingstone.
Why did we take Goddard when we could have had Salopek
Why did we take Dal Santo when we could have had Shane Harvey
Why did we take Montagna when we could have had Henry Playfair
Why did we take Jimmy Gwilt when we could have had Ben Schwarze ( a brother and a cousin of players at that time)
Why take Sam Fisher when we could have had Brent LeCras.
-
Dr Spaceman
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 14102
- Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2009 11:07pm
- Location: Newtown Institute of Saintology
- Has thanked: 104 times
- Been thanked: 62 times
Cost us our historySainterK wrote:Really? We could of had all those, now I am really crosskosifantutti23 wrote:Why did we take Riewoldt when we could have had Luke Livingstone.
Why did we take Goddard when we could have had Salopek
Why did we take Dal Santo when we could have had Shane Harvey
Why did we take Montagna when we could have had Henry Playfair
Why did we take Jimmy Gwilt when we could have had Ben Schwarze ( a brother and a cousin of players at that time)
Why take Sam Fisher when we could have had Brent LeCras.
no...what you are saying is pretty spot on....MCG-Unit wrote:Well I had never before heard that Beverage said that..........Mr Magic wrote:Every time this topic comes up I post what John Beveridge had to say about it (to a room of about 50 people)MCG-Unit wrote:Maybe because the only way some know is to go on the assault - slam the poster rather than debate his point - that's why some have left these boards or hardly post
It's a wonder the great defender of the club hasn't come on the thread
The OP's no1 point is 100% IMO - they could have had both
Not sure about 2-3
WE wanted both Ball and Judd.
WCE let it be known that they were going to take Ball at pick #3 and that they were not interested in Judd because of his 'bad shoulders'.
We were aware that they were going to take Sampi and that Freo was going to take Polak with their next picks, so we took Ball at #2 thinking we had Judd with our pick #5.
History will show that WCE took Judd at pick #3 adn 'screwed us over.
We didn't rate Ball over Judd or Judd over Ball. We wanted both adn thought we were going to get both.
Some may want to diselieve what Beveridge said publicly.
Not me. I've got no reason to not believe him.
I had always heard and thought that the WA sides were very keen on Sampi and Polak at 3 & 4 - and the WCE were not going to take Ball at 3 then wait a year while he finished school in Vic.
Therefore if Judd went at 2 - followed by the 2 WA boys, then it was most likely Ball would still be there at 5
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
-
desertsaint
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 10431
- Joined: Sun 27 Apr 2008 2:02pm
- Location: out there
- Has thanked: 190 times
- Been thanked: 713 times
-
Life Long Saint
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 5535
- Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 12:54pm
- Has thanked: 63 times
- Been thanked: 484 times
- Contact:
-
bobmurray
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 7937
- Joined: Mon 03 Oct 2005 11:08pm
- Location: In the stand at RSEA Park.
- Has thanked: 549 times
- Been thanked: 254 times
we could have had 30 wooden spoons by now if things had have gone our way....kosifantutti23 wrote:Why did we take Riewoldt when we could have had Luke Livingstone.
Why did we take Goddard when we could have had Salopek
Why did we take Dal Santo when we could have had Shane Harvey
Why did we take Montagna when we could have had Henry Playfair
Why did we take Jimmy Gwilt when we could have had Ben Schwarze ( a brother and a cousin of players at that time)
Why take Sam Fisher when we could have had Brent LeCras.
How many defenders will The Saints pick in the 2024 draft ? 
Why didn't 10 other clubs take Lenny Hayes?kosifantutti23 wrote:Why did we take Riewoldt when we could have had Luke Livingstone.
Why did we take Goddard when we could have had Salopek
Why did we take Dal Santo when we could have had Shane Harvey
Why did we take Montagna when we could have had Henry Playfair
Why did we take Jimmy Gwilt when we could have had Ben Schwarze ( a brother and a cousin of players at that time)
Why take Sam Fisher when we could have had Brent LeCras.
He went at #13 and he alone almost got us over the line in GF1.
What a stupid, poorly thought out OP.
Yes Dangerfield over Mcevoy. He would go great in the ruck. Same as Riewoldt in the midfield
We had high hopes for Allen when Riewoldt went to the Tigers. We also had another Riewoldt and Kosi there as well.
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
Much too early to judge guys like Armo and Mac. Consider where Joey was at the end of 05, still a fringe player. Same can be said of Jimmy Gwilt at the end of 09 (that was after 5 full years on the list!)
STRENGTH THROUGH LOYALTY.
''I still get really excited, and I've got the '66 thing up on the wall in a frame … You look at it and think: one day, we want to achieve that.''- Arryn Siposs
''I still get really excited, and I've got the '66 thing up on the wall in a frame … You look at it and think: one day, we want to achieve that.''- Arryn Siposs
-
Enrico_Misso
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 11662
- Joined: Tue 13 Jun 2006 12:11am
- Location: Moorabbin Chapter of The Royal Society of Hagiographers
- Has thanked: 315 times
- Been thanked: 720 times
We need to bring in a "Brothers" recruiting policy.
OK maybe it didn't work out quite so well with X and Raph.
But Melbourne are still honouring the Flower brothers - Tom and Robbie.
And the Hawks must be close to inducting Robert and David Polkinghorne into their hall of fame, along with Dino and Robert Dipierdominico.
Not to mention Daryl Shimmelbusch and his older brother at North.
OK maybe it didn't work out quite so well with X and Raph.
But Melbourne are still honouring the Flower brothers - Tom and Robbie.
And the Hawks must be close to inducting Robert and David Polkinghorne into their hall of fame, along with Dino and Robert Dipierdominico.
Not to mention Daryl Shimmelbusch and his older brother at North.
The rest of Australia can wander mask-free, socialise, eat out, no curfews, no zoning, no police rings of steel, no illogical inconsistent rules.
They can even WATCH LIVE FOOTY!
They can even WATCH LIVE FOOTY!
-
kosifantutti23
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2388
- Joined: Fri 26 Sep 2008 12:55am
- Location: Horgen