He is gone...rumour

[joffaboy]

I am not talking about the incident when I say Essendon would be laughing themselves silly, no sane person would find an accusation of rape amusing.

They would be breathing a sign of relief after fooling Lyon and the Saints with their "character references" of Lovett and #16 for a deadhead moron.

The saints wouldn't choose Cousins because of his off field difficulties.

Seems like the Saints hierarachy have been blinded by the GF loss and took Lovett in a knee jerk reaction to our greatest weakness - speed, or lack thereof.

The buck stops with Lyon. he cops kudo's for most of his recruiting, but has stuffed the trading period up big time in 2009. Overall, Lyon has been excellent, this time however he has been very poor.

Why is it that Lyon is above critisism?

[joffaboy]

As long a Luke Ball didnt leave because he knew we were recruiting Lovett....but we will never know that.

WTF? Ball was gone months before trading period

And my guess is the only reason we havent sacked Lovett yet is so he cant accuse us of stopping him getting a fair trial.

Would think he needs to be charged before going to trial.

[Eastern]

Essendon are laughing their arses off over this.

Offloaded this idiot to us for #16, and the clown is so uinhinged that he wont even play a game with us.

Ross Lyon has completely stuffed up.

Completely.

It wasn't a "Stuff UP" at the time, it was a "GAMBLE". I'm pretty sure that there would have been quite a few in the heirachy of the club who contributed to the decision to gamble on him.

If a decision has in fact been made on his future (and I'm convinced it was made on Christmas Eve) we need to be mindful that it was/is NOT football related meaning the "GAMBLE" has gone sour through NO FAULT of anyone a the club !!

[MC Gusto]

trust me in the fact that it is what i have been told.

there is no doubt that something could change the lady may drop the charges who knows. however it was described as an 'unsettling and disturbing' set of circumstances.

[SENsei]

I'm with joffaboy here, we have been duped big time. Sheedy, Hird & Lloyd all gave St Kilda character references, both in public and private.

This is a huge stuff up.

I applaud the club if this information is correct. Strong action.

[rodgerfox]

Essendon are laughing their arses off over this.

Offloaded this idiot to us for #16, and the clown is so uinhinged that he wont even play a game with us.

Ross Lyon has completely stuffed up.

Completely.

It wasn't a "Stuff UP" at the time, it was a "GAMBLE". I'm pretty sure that there would have been quite a few in the heirachy of the club who contributed to the decision to gamble on him.

If a decision has in fact been made on his future (and I'm convinced it was made on Christmas Eve) we need to be mindful that it was/is NOT football related meaning the "GAMBLE" has gone sour through NO FAULT of anyone a the club !!

Hmmm.

So if I put my house on a 50-1 shot in the next at Ascot, and it happens to run like a 50-1 shot......shall I tell my wife it wasn't a stuff up on my behalf? That all I did was take a gamble, and it was the horse that stuffed up?

I say if you back 50-1 shots, and they run like 50-1 shots, you've stuffed up and get what you deserve.

[SENsei]

Essendon are laughing their arses off over this.

Offloaded this idiot to us for #16, and the clown is so uinhinged that he wont even play a game with us.

Ross Lyon has completely stuffed up.

Completely.

It wasn't a "Stuff UP" at the time, it was a "GAMBLE". I'm pretty sure that there would have been quite a few in the heirachy of the club who contributed to the decision to gamble on him.

If a decision has in fact been made on his future (and I'm convinced it was made on Christmas Eve) we need to be mindful that it was/is NOT football related meaning the "GAMBLE" has gone sour through NO FAULT of anyone a the club !!

Hmmm.

So if I put my house on a 50-1 shot in the next at Ascot, and it happens to run like a 50-1 shot......shall I tell my wife it wasn't a stuff up on my behalf? That all I did was take a gamble, and it was the horse that stuffed up?

I say if you back 50-1 shots, and they run like 50-1 shots, you've stuffed up and get what you deserve.

Poor analogy. Lovett was much better than a 50-1 shot.

And honestly, who could predict this sort of predicament?

[rodgerfox]

Poor analogy. Lovett was much better than a 50-1 shot.

Turns out he was infact a 1000-1 shot.

And honestly, who could predict this sort of predicament?

This precise sort of predicament? Few would predict it.

A predicament of some sort? Most would have predicted it.

[sainterinsydney]

If no charges have been laid, how can we justify sacking him? Wouldn't we be sued by him for terminating his contract without a proper reason? Even with all the innuendo at the moment, the guy is still technically innocent until proven guilty.

[meher baba]

If no charges have been laid, how can we justify sacking him? Wouldn't we be sued by him for terminating his contract without a proper reason? Even with all the innuendo at the moment, the guy is still technically innocent until proven guilty.

I assume that we wouldn't actually sack him until he is convicted of something. Until then, he would be left in suspension on whatever the minimum amount we can get away with paying him. He would also have a standing offer of some sort of a payout if he agrees to terminate his contract.

The best Lovett could be hoping for right now is that charges aren't laid or, if they are, he isn't convicted. I still don't think the club will want him back, so the best future for him is to keep his head low and hope that another AFL/SAFL/WAFL club might be prepared to give him a go in a couple of years.

If he's convicted, he would presumably go to gaol for a reasonable while and his career in football in any capacity is finished.

If I were his mum or dad, I'd be extremely worried right now about where his life is going from here.

[SENsei]

Poor analogy. Lovett was much better than a 50-1 shot.

Turns out he was infact a 1000-1 shot.

And honestly, who could predict this sort of predicament?

This precise sort of predicament? Few would predict it.

A predicament of some sort? Most would have predicted it.

Some sort of predicament that would require his sacking?

You are clearly Nostradamus.

Most? I'd say most might have considered him an on field risk but I would doubt 'most' would've predicted a sacking offence.

[SENsei]

If no charges have been laid, how can we justify sacking him? Wouldn't we be sued by him for terminating his contract without a proper reason? Even with all the innuendo at the moment, the guy is still technically innocent until proven guilty.

I assume that we wouldn't actually sack him until he is convicted of something. Until then, he would be left in suspension on whatever the minimum amount we can get away with paying him. He would also have a standing offer of some sort of a payout if he agrees to terminate his contract.

The best Lovett could be hoping for right now is that charges aren't laid or, if they are, he isn't convicted. I still don't think the club will want him back, so the best future for him is to keep his head low and hope that another AFL/SAFL/WAFL club might be prepared to give him a go in a couple of years.

If he's convicted, he would presumably go to gaol for a reasonable while and his career in football in any capacity is finished.

If I were his mum or dad, I'd be extremely worried right now about where his life is going from here.

I worry about the wording used in the OP regarding the description of the circumstances.

That to me tells a telling story.

[IluvHarvey]

Poor analogy. Lovett was much better than a 50-1 shot.

Turns out he was infact a 1000-1 shot.

And honestly, who could predict this sort of predicament?

This precise sort of predicament? Few would predict it.

A predicament of some sort? Most would have predicted it.

Look the way I see it is that we took a gamble and it didn't pay off this time.

We took a gamble with Gardiner and it did pay off!

You win some you lose some, thats life!

[Maxstar22]

Once again, I think we should all just take a big deep breath and wait for an official statement from the club.

No point in getting all upset about something that has not been confirmed as yet.

[SydneySainter]

Stop comparing the Cousins decision to Lovett. In hindsight, Cousins so far has worked for the Tigers, but we have no idea what would have happened had he been taken by the Saints. He could have been the difference in the grand final, or he may have never even played a game for us.

Same as Lovett. If we hadn't recruited him, another club would have. Does that mean they would have been in the exact same position we are now? Of course not. So far he could have been working out much better for them, or things could be even worse.

[Richter]

Look the way I see it is that we took a gamble and it didn't pay off this time.

We took a gamble with Gardiner and it did pay off!

You win some you lose some, thats life!

Agreed. We took a risk that we were going to get a GUN on-field. Instead of plumping for a POTENTIAL likely GOP at best. Lyon has shown he has the nous to pick up a GOP for next to nothing through shrewd recruiting anyway - Schneider, King, Ray, Gardiner just for starters.

Nobody is saying that RL is above criticism it's the way some posters are getting their knickers in a twist that is a bit over the top for mine.

I come back to the word RISK. The people who are slamming Lyon for taking Lovett in this thread are those that do not see to understand the concept of RISK and instead are using fallacious post-hoc analysis.

[rodgerfox]

Agreed. We took a risk that we were going to get a GUN on-field. Instead of plumping for a POTENTIAL likely GOP at best. Lyon has shown he has the nous to pick up a GOP for next to nothing through shrewd recruiting anyway - Schneider, King, Ray, Gardiner just for starters.

Those who consider finals football to be important, could argue that all of Lyon's recruits have failed.

[Richter]

Agreed. We took a risk that we were going to get a GUN on-field. Instead of plumping for a POTENTIAL likely GOP at best. Lyon has shown he has the nous to pick up a GOP for next to nothing through shrewd recruiting anyway - Schneider, King, Ray, Gardiner just for starters.

Those who consider finals football to be important, could argue that all of Lyon's recruits have failed.

Given that in his two finals campaigns Lyon has got us to a prelim (top 4) and a grand final (top 2) such a person would struggle to say that overall Lyon's teams have failed from a finals point of view.

If one takes the narrow view (a la Caroline Wilson) that it is only winning the flag that counts in assessing a successful/unsuccessful year then that argument may hold some water. In my view such a person would be somewhat immature in terms of how they assess the value of a season.

[chook23]

If no charges have been laid, how can we justify sacking him? Wouldn't we be sued by him for terminating his contract without a proper reason? Even with all the innuendo at the moment, the guy is still technically innocent until proven guilty.

I assume that we wouldn't actually sack him until he is convicted of something. Until then, he would be left in suspension on whatever the minimum amount we can get away with paying him. He would also have a standing offer of some sort of a payout if he agrees to terminate his contract.

The best Lovett could be hoping for right now is that charges aren't laid or, if they are, he isn't convicted. I still don't think the club will want him back, so the best future for him is to keep his head low and hope that another AFL/SAFL/WAFL club might be prepared to give him a go in a couple of years.

If he's convicted, he would presumably go to gaol for a reasonable while and his career in football in any capacity is finished.

If I were his mum or dad, I'd be extremely worried right now about where his life is going from here.

I worry about the wording used in the OP regarding the description of the circumstances.

That to me tells a telling story.

Why has everyone reacted like they have today...nothing new

the words.........used by OP "unsettling set of circumstances" or similar were mentioned at or near release of media articles........

[I Love Peter Kiel]

If what you say is correct Mr Gusto I'm very annoyed... and of course well aware of the gravity of the alleged incident.

Are you guys aware that GEEL*NG was trying hard to trade for Lovett at the end of the 2008 season? If they'd been successful in that trade everything would be different. Who knows how it would have turned out?

[saint66au]

Agreed. We took a risk that we were going to get a GUN on-field. Instead of plumping for a POTENTIAL likely GOP at best. Lyon has shown he has the nous to pick up a GOP for next to nothing through shrewd recruiting anyway - Schneider, King, Ray, Gardiner just for starters.

Those who consider finals football to be important, could argue that all of Lyon's recruits have failed.

Those who consider that H&A football is kinda important to make finals could argue that his recruits have done just fine

[markp]

Get over it.

This guy obviously ticked all the boxes on the way through, the same ones Cousin's didn't or wouldn't... we are none of us privy to the 'process' involved.

Maybe in hindsight they will b judged as having gotten this one (and even the Cousins one) wrong, but overall they have been getting them right... at bargain prices to boot.

If they comprehensively cut him loose, strengthen their resolve and reinforce the St Kilda bubble with titanium plating this season, it may even inspire them to greater heights....

This is an individual tragedy, not a St Kilda one.

[Saintersss]

Essendon are laughing their arses off over this.

Offloaded this idiot to us for #16, and the clown is so uinhinged that he wont even play a game with us.

Ross Lyon has completely stuffed up.

Completely.

It wasn't a "Stuff UP" at the time, it was a "GAMBLE". I'm pretty sure that there would have been quite a few in the heirachy of the club who contributed to the decision to gamble on him.

If a decision has in fact been made on his future (and I'm convinced it was made on Christmas Eve) we need to be mindful that it was/is NOT football related meaning the "GAMBLE" has gone sour through NO FAULT of anyone a the club !!

"Once upon a time, a woman was picking up firewood. She came upon a poisonous snake frozen in the snow. She took the snake home and nursed it back to health. One day the snake bit her on the cheek. As she lay dying, she asked the snake, 'Why have you done this to me?' And the snake answered, 'Look, bitch, you knew I was a snake'."

And to people who say some risks pay off like Gardiner, King etc. and some don't Lovett. The one difference between Lovett and most of Lyon's other trades were that all the other trades were for very low picks (Gardiner - 53 or so, King - 90), while Lovettt was for Pick 16. When you trade out your first rounder you better make sure that they are a fairly safe bet.

[Moods]

Look the way I see it is that we took a gamble and it didn't pay off this time.

We took a gamble with Gardiner and it did pay off!

You win some you lose some, thats life!

Agreed. We took a risk that we were going to get a GUN on-field. Instead of plumping for a POTENTIAL likely GOP at best. Lyon has shown he has the nous to pick up a GOP for next to nothing through shrewd recruiting anyway - Schneider, King, Ray, Gardiner just for starters.

Nobody is saying that RL is above criticism it's the way some posters are getting their knickers in a twist that is a bit over the top for mine.

I come back to the word RISK. The people who are slamming Lyon for taking Lovett in this thread are those that do not see to understand the concept of RISK and instead are using fallacious post-hoc analysis.

THere's such a thing as a risk and a calculated risk. Ppl comparing the recruiting of Gardiner with Lovett are kidding themselves. What did we risk? We got him for nothing and pay him virtually base rate. How's that a risk? All our other gems that we got off other clubs (Dawson, Schneider, King, Ray) we also got for virtually nothing. How's that a risk? Same could be said for Jesse Smith.

TRading your top pick in a weak draft (it could be argued that this was our best chance of getting a decent young player) for a player like Lovett, who had a history of indiscretions and laziness, was verging on reckless and possibly even smacking of desperation. Desperation for that quality missing from our team - pace and a bit of magic.

I agree with Joffa, Lyon takes the credit for the good gets from most of us(and rightly so) and needs to wear this stuff up. It wasn't a smart risk, or a calculated risk. It was an outright gamble.

[bergholt]

Poor analogy. Lovett was much better than a 50-1 shot.

Turns out he was infact a 1000-1 shot.

That makes no sense. If you put your house on the even money favourite and it loses, does it end up having been a 1000-1 shot? No, it was even money - but even money favourites lose some times.

Most agreed that Lovett was about 2-1 or better to make it. Maybe he was actually 10-1. But anyway, we didn't bet the house on him - we bet a decent but not great draft pick, which would've had no impact this year anyway.

It's not a mistake, it's a chance which didn't come off. That's still bad, but let's not crucify anyone for it. Very rarely does an AFL player end up in this situation and it's not predictable.