Its not just on field Ross......

[remboy]

While the coach has a say in the assistants I'd like to think there is an objective review at the end of every season as there is with every other position at the club.
Getting back to the forward line - it always looks better when you win the ball out of the centre. Forwards have more of a chance when the opposition can't flood half of their side into defence. It also seems that as soon as our opposition get the ball all of oour forwards are up on the wing. Makes it hard for them to kick goals.

[hotdish]

Is it's Ross' job to review/change the assistants?

YES! AFL coaches recruit their own assistants, with the board i guess rubber stamping these decisions.

I doubt any of our assistants will be going anywhere any time soon!

In regards to our forward line - we planned all summer strategically with Gehrig at full foward - he broke down and threw that out the window, and it took a while to get everything set after that (especially with Kossi rucking alot).

Stability is important for any club. The assistants will be staying...

[bigcarl]

It also seems that as soon as our opposition get the ball all of oour forwards are up on the wing. Makes it hard for them to kick goals.

agree. all teams do it to an extent. we exaggerate it so much that often there is no-one to kick it to as they are all too busy being "accountable".

it's a real problem.

[JeffDunne]

While the coach has a say in the assistants I'd like to think there is an objective review at the end of every season as there is with every other position at the club.

I agree 100%

Wouldn't want assistants that weren't approved by the coach but I'd like to think his decision isn't final.

Getting back to the forward line - it always looks better when you win the ball out of the centre. Forwards have more of a chance when the opposition can't flood half of their side into defence. It also seems that as soon as our opposition get the ball all of oour forwards are up on the wing. Makes it hard for them to kick goals.

Agree again and that's what I meant by it being simplistic in reviewing the assistants based on one aspect of our performance.

IMO our biggest problem is our skill level and that probably impacts more on our forward performances than any other area on the ground.

[WayneJudson42]

Is it's Ross' job to review/change the assistants?

I'm sure he'd have a large input (especially the review) but I thought we were moving away from the senior coach running the football dept?

Seems to me Ross gets the credit/blame for recruiting, tactics, assistants, injury management, etc.

As for the assistants themselves, I struggle to see how anyone can make a call from outside the football department. Unless you know their specific role and the input they've had then it's pretty simplistic to suggest our problems in one area are a direct result of one specific coach.

I would hope all positions are reviewed annually and I would hope at the same time we are exploring all options to improve every position. I would like to see someone with senior experience added to the dept if the right person is available.

A logical post JD.

I guess we have to have a quota of whipping boys both on and off the field... and Barker is the "man" for 2008.

[Richter]

Well, Barker gets a bad rap because of 2007's poor performance when we fell off alarmingly up forward.

THe same cannot be said for this year though. After the tri-Tall experiment that failed so dismally after Quarter time vs the Bulldogs, there was a bit of rejigging to be done, and in the second part of the year our attack was one of tyhe most potent of the whole comp. WELL DONE JB!

Whilst I am not unhappy with a generally Roo-centric approach - he is easily our best player after all - it is noticeable that the Hawks for instance have 2 TALLs and a good medium marking target (WILLIAMS) up front - so that whilst Buddy did little in the prelim or GF, he demands the best defender, leaving the likes of Williams up against your 3rd defender.

So for mine, up front we mainly lack that 3rd marking, medium target. I like Gwilt but I fear that he just doesn't seem to present enough and find enough of the footy to be that man. Hopefully he or Allen will step up a level next year.

[bigcarl]

the Hawks for instance have 2 TALLs and a good medium marking target (WILLIAMS) up front - so that whilst Buddy did little in the prelim or GF, he demands the best defender, leaving the likes of Williams up against your 3rd defender.

it's almost as if they modelled it on the gehrig-riewoldt-hamill set-up we had in place a few years back. that was very potent when we could get them all on the park.

[SaintWodonga]

I'd love to see TD back, I reckon he did a great job (mind you he had G-train and Hamil in full flight).

[saintsRrising]

the Hawks for instance have 2 TALLs and a good medium marking target (WILLIAMS) up front - so that whilst Buddy did little in the prelim or GF, he demands the best defender, leaving the likes of Williams up against your 3rd defender.

it's almost as if they modelled it on the gehrig-riewoldt-hamill set-up we had in place a few years back. that was very potent when we could get them all on the park.

William's and Hamill are vastly different players.

Hamill was lauded by many as being the best defensive forward in the competition....

Havinga a "third" forward rip the Saints apart in a final is also not new.

Remember Ryan O'Keefe?? We where so fixated on stopping Hall and MOL that Voss ran wide of O"keefe and he kicked a bagful.

[evertonfc]

Dont know how Barker can be blamed. Riewoldt and Milne both kicked over 60 goals, Kosi kicked 20 something playing with a gammy knee, and Schneids did his job when he got a gig.

Seem to go OK. Also once Roo could drop the ball he stopped shanking it and the 17.4 against the filth was incredibly good football.

I beleive the time we were convincingly beaten we looked ordinary going into the forward line. As teffers said mainly to Roo one out against three or four. But this had more to do with our treacle slow mids getting flogged by the opposition.

AFAIAC it all comes back to Lyon himself. He is coming into his third year as senior coach, the team cant be labelled an "inherited" one anymore. It is "his" team.

He needs to recruit for where our GLARING deficiency is - midfield. When we win or even break even in the midfield, our forwards look dangerous.

So I would not blame Barker. I would look at the head coach and hold him, his recruiting, and his game day tactics up for scrutiny before going for the assistants.

Interesting view.

I think we should dispense with Barker, but it is also Lyon's responsibility.

Our forward line splutters at the best of times and our midfield is rather pedestrian.

Our backline has become absolutely first class - it's 80% of the reason we fell arse-first into the top four.

[n1ck]

The assistant coaches should be an extension of the senior coach.

They all have to be pulling together in the same direction.

If Barker is not relaying Lyon's message effectively, then he should be let go.

If he is... then maybe Lyon needs to change the message, the players - or he faces the axe - as he is ultimately responsible for the operation of our gameplan.

[JeffDunne]

Does Barker take credit for Milne's improved form?

Or does Lyon take the credit because he made the call to drop him?

The roles aren't exclusive enough to judge an assistant based only on results in their area of the field IMO.

[Teflon]

Does Barker take credit for Milne's improved form?

Or does Lyon take the credit because he made the call to drop him?

The roles aren't exclusive enough to judge an assistant based only on results in their area of the field IMO.

Ofcourse the roles arent mutually exclusive, ofcourse none are privvy enough here to know the inner workings of the assistant coaches, Ofcourse the club should have rational review of all positions at seasons end....any more cliches?

The point here is - as the OP says - going off from what Ive seen over the past couple of seasons now our midfield, fwd line AND ball movement across the board has shown us up IMHO. We acknolwedge (or the Prez did at least) that we arent in the market to sack the senior coach but to me that still leaves us with improvement required - where's it coming from?

This thread isnt just about the fwd line but while we are on it - I look at the fwd line as a unit, its ability to adjust when Roo is being blanketed, the pressure being applied to maintain the ball etc etc IMO it was a major weakness this year ALONG with a midfield that at times still looked reliant on a 37 yrold.

We will adjust the list
I think its time we looked at whose around the senior coach also.

[stevos2151]

The problem is and always has been that our midfielders
DONT KICK GOALS.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

the Hawks for instance have 2 TALLs and a good medium marking target (WILLIAMS) up front - so that whilst Buddy did little in the prelim or GF, he demands the best defender, leaving the likes of Williams up against your 3rd defender.

it's almost as if they modelled it on the gehrig-riewoldt-hamill set-up we had in place a few years back. that was very potent when we could get them all on the park.

almost??? the bloody did

it hurts the most that we did the bottoming out and trading for players to challenge first

we were the team that had the young confident aggressive arrogant assholes that put the fear of god in teams

we did it all before, jsut couldnt get the job done when we had the opportunity

[bigcarl]

the Hawks for instance have 2 TALLs and a good medium marking target (WILLIAMS) up front - so that whilst Buddy did little in the prelim or GF, he demands the best defender, leaving the likes of Williams up against your 3rd defender.

it's almost as if they modelled it on the gehrig-riewoldt-hamill set-up we had in place a few years back. that was very potent when we could get them all on the park.

almost??? the bloody did

it hurts the most that we did the bottoming out and trading for players to challenge first

we were the team that had the young confident aggressive arrogant assholes that put the fear of god in teams

we did it all before, jsut couldnt get the job done when we had the opportunity

yes. what might have been.

we were on the right track, well led and playing a good type of football, but injuries really cost us.

another thing about those years that's sometimes overlooked is that the young core group were very young.

riewoldt, ball, kosi, dal, maguire, bj, joey etc were boys. they're only reaching their mid-20s now.

how it must burn in their guts that they might have missed their chance ... and that cats and now hawthorn have premierships and they don't.