Sack Lyon

[st.byron]

..................
So please, before we all start calling for a sacking, or back the press' calls for a sacking, let's have a think about whether or not it's worth throwing away a 2 year investment for a complete unknown quantity - unknown to the point where we don't even have any candidates at all.

..

Agree with you Rog. Would be madness to even consider sacking Lyon now.
At season's end, perhaps, depending on how the rest of the year pans out.
I don't like the style of footy we're playing. It's as dull as dishwater and we're yet to beat a team above us ( except Sydney by 2 points in what was one of the worst games of football I've ever paid to go and see), but give him unti the end of the year at least.

[spert]

Gtrain for coach.. We are in easy striking distance of the eight and there's no reason why we can't play finals footy. If Roo had been playing, we would have beaten Collingwood. We still need to weed out the non-performers and give the hard workers the preference and I think you will see RL doing more of this now we are getting into the middle of the season. RL's frustration at getting the game plan working is probably due to the fact that many of our players are not capable of hard, accountable footy that success requires.
A big problem that must bug RL compared to the Swans players he dealt with, is we have too many naturally talented players with no defensive side to their game: NDS, Montagna, Milne, Gram, Kozi, Fiora, Raph. You can carry a couple, but that many.

Anyway let's wait until season's end and then we will get a better picture.

[Otiman]

My issue with Lyon is not his gameplan.

It's not his media performances.

It's not his list management.

It's not his game day strategies and matchups.

It's his leadership.


He is the head coach of an AFL team, and still handles himself like an assistant coach. He fails to capture the attention and imagination of the players, and his motivation of the players is seemingly non existent. He couldn't sell blankets to eskimos.

He could well be the best assistant coach in modern day football, and also the worst head coach, both at the same time.

Needs to be injected with a dose of charisma, you can do that with drugs these days, can't you?

[bergsone]

RL game plan is not suited to the playing list,simple as that.Why try and change a formula that these players have had sucess playing .Sure make players more accountable work on their game etc,Im sure Geelong would struggle playing a Swans type game plan ,as are we.RL has to realise this.

[saintsRrising]

Needs to be injected with a dose of charisma, you can do that with drugs these days, can't you?

Not sure that Jeansy was a livewire either.....

Did have a to steally gaze though!!!!

[congorozides]

Possible Candidates..

Nathan BUCKLEY (too soon)
Michael VOSS (too soon)
Kevin SHEEDY (too late)

Others...

Mick GATTO (well connected. would instill team-work)
Molly MELDRUM (the music guy or the carlton back pocket?)
Chopper READ (inject some hardness)
Steve, the bloke who coaches my sons U9's (does a very good job im told)
The bloke that swears heaps on that tv cooking show (yes - he gets the job done)

Outsiders but heartwarmers...

Plugger LOCKETT (legend)
Carl DITTERICH (ditto)
Robbie MUIR (take no crap from the opposition)

i added some comments. i love the list.
hard to know what a coach is like unless you are a player i reckon. i assume harves must rate him or would not have come back. same for fraser.

[Saints43]

[i assume harves must rate him or would not have come back. same for fraser.

Because he had a lot of options.

What's Bob going to do? Decide he wants to play football at the top level for another season and play his 21st season of football against St Kilda, the club he loves, because the Dogs play attacking football?

He either played for us or retired. His heart wouldn't have it any other way.

[yipper]

Possible Candidates..

Nathan BUCKLEY (too soon)
Michael VOSS (too soon)
Kevin SHEEDY (too late)

Others...

Mick GATTO (well connected. would instill team-work)
Molly MELDRUM (the music guy or the carlton back pocket?)
Chopper READ (inject some hardness)
Steve, the bloke who coaches my sons U9's (does a very good job im told)
The bloke that swears heaps on that tv cooking show (yes - he gets the job done)

Outsiders but heartwarmers...

Plugger LOCKETT (legend)
Carl DITTERICH (ditto)
Robbie MUIR (take no crap from the opposition)

i added some comments. i love the list.
hard to know what a coach is like unless you are a player i reckon. i assume harves must rate him or would not have come back. same for fraser.

Exactly.

I reckon (FWIW) that our biggest issue is Mental Toughness. RL has not been able to do anything about it and GT struggled with this as well. I think the gameplan, the talent are ok - it's just having that never say die, killer instinct that a Hamill, Powell possessed. There is really only Ball, Hayes, Roo and Maxie of the current bunch - along with the Harvs, who can stand tall when it gets tough. We twice surged to a 15 point lead against the Pies - and each time we looked set to go on with it. But the Pies clawed their way back through determination, toughness and mental strength. It is the missing link - the coach has to find these tough players and get them into the side. Armo is the new breed - he will be ok, Big Gardi is ok to - but we have to get the likes of Dal, Joey into the truly elite bracket by having them believe they cannot be beaten, WILL NOT be beaten - get that arrogance, they have everything else, they are superb footballers - they need mental toughness, killer instinct - thrash your opponent. Harvs could do it - thrived on it. Hamill especially so. Get that and Ross Lyon will coach a premiership team.

[congorozides]

[i assume harves must rate him or would not have come back. same for fraser.

Because he had a lot of options.

What's Bob going to do? Decide he wants to play football at the top level for another season and play his 21st season of football against St Kilda, the club he loves, because the Dogs play attacking football?

He either played for us or retired. His heart wouldn't have it any other way.

true - but if the thought the guy was a complete tool they could have hung them.

moved to spain. i dunno. where do retired footballers go?

[Saints43]

[i assume harves must rate him or would not have come back. same for fraser.

Because he had a lot of options.

What's Bob going to do? Decide he wants to play football at the top level for another season and play his 21st season of football against St Kilda, the club he loves, because the Dogs play attacking football?

He either played for us or retired. His heart wouldn't have it any other way.

true - but if the thought the guy was a complete tool they could have hung them.

moved to spain. i dunno. where do retired footballers go?

St Kilda. So he would have ended up here anyway.

[spert]

You have mental toughness or you dont..I think a lot of recruiters get overawed by raw talent and don't look much deeper and I think it has been a problem with the Saints for a lot of years. It is just as important to look at leadership qualities and characters of players. There have been a lot of players over the years who look great on the field, but go missing in the tough stuff -front runners. The players who bust their guts to make a contest no matter what, are worth their weight in gold.

[evertonfc]

My issue with Lyon is not his gameplan.

It's not his media performances.

It's not his list management.

It's not his game day strategies and matchups.

It's his leadership.

Geez, I reckon the other four issues are killing him as well.

He doesn't seem capable at all thus far, but it is too early to slit his throat - and I say that as a staunch critic.

Jumping him now is pointless, but there's every reason to start putting him under the magnifying glass, which the media has simply refused to do until now.

It's about time they stopped worrying about whether he'll resort to his 'I hate the media' shell and started putting some real heat on him. Might inspire him to actually think about the future of the club rather than scraping into the eight and keeping his job.

He can keep his job if he actually develops some friggen kids and gives us something to hope for in the future.

[saintsRrising]

You have mental toughness or you dont..I think a lot of recruiters get overawed by raw talent and don't look much deeper and I think it has been a problem with the Saints for a lot of years. It is just as important to look at leadership qualities and characters of players. There have been a lot of players over the years who look great on the field, but go missing in the tough stuff -front runners. The players who bust their guts to make a contest no matter what, are worth their weight in gold.

That is is in essence what I have been ssaying fora while...and wastold to me by an ex-Saints insider about JB's recruiting.

JB is great at spotting football ability....but did not closely enough review the whole package.


A bit like not checking for termites when you buy a house. If you are lucky it won't have them....but if it does................

[JeffDunne]

Considering the investment and the resources - JB has done as well as anyone could expect.

I find it quite humorous that good first quarters and selective results are an indication that Lyon can coach and the game plan is attacking, but the poor quarters and poor results are an indication that we lack talent.

Spin, spin, spin.

[meher baba]

The media are turning on Lyon and I doubt that the new Board are all that supportive as he wasn't their choice.

Archie Fraser seems to remain a strong supporter of Lyon: not much choice I guess as he was the true "genius" behind GT's sacking, not Butterss IMO (although Butterss was happy to go along with it for his own reasons once Fraser got the ball well and truly rolling).

I reckon Lyon is cactus barring a dramatic turn around in the next few weeks. I reckon that, if the Board decides that it wants to get rid of him, they shouldn't let him see out the season.

If we lose the next 3 or 4 and are clearly out of the running for the finals, why would the Board allow him to stay on as a lame duck and just dig us into a bigger and bigger hole? We will need to engender a sense of optimism at the place as soon as possible if we want to avoid losing our stars to other clubs. And I'd like to see Harves and Fraser finish their careers on something other than a total bummer.

Who do we bring in? The guy who we should have promoted when we sacked GT: Bundy. When you sack your coach suddenly and in acrimonious circumstances, and you can't get a proven performer from elsewhere, the only logical thing to do is to promote the 2IC. It worked ok at Sydney and the Crows, didn't it?

And it surely isn't too late for us to turn the clock back. The likes of Aussie and Cripps might make good assistants, and we should hang on to Silvagni if he wants to stay.

I know few on here will agree with me, but I still reckon I'm right.

[NoMore]

My issue with Lyon is not his gameplan.

It's not his media performances.

It's not his list management.

It's not his game day strategies and matchups.

It's his leadership.



I don't know that he has got any of these things covered.

If this is the critirea we are judging him on he is in big trouble

[tweedaletomanning]

On the contrary, extend his contract
Make the PLAYERS responsible...
Show unity and support
BUT definately look into changing the Assistant coaches.

[barks4eva]

Archie Fraser seems to remain a strong supporter of Lyon: not much choice I guess as he was the true "genius" behind GT's sacking, not Butterss IMO (although Butterss was happy to go along with it for his own reasons once Fraser got the ball well and truly rolling).

Me babble, you know SFA, you constantly post your inane drivel that has no basis in reality,you are nothing but a flog and a goofball and this time I am being polite.

YOU ARE 100% WRONG, what you wrote is garbage

Who do we bring in? The guy who we should have promoted when we sacked GT: Bundy.

FAIR DINKUM

You are a total numbnut

[Otiman]

You have mental toughness or you dont..I think a lot of recruiters get overawed by raw talent and don't look much deeper and I think it has been a problem with the Saints for a lot of years. It is just as important to look at leadership qualities and characters of players. There have been a lot of players over the years who look great on the field, but go missing in the tough stuff -front runners. The players who bust their guts to make a contest no matter what, are worth their weight in gold.

Do you think Michael Rix has mental toughness? What about Troy Schwarze? Jason Blake?

[Otiman]

On the contrary, extend his contract
Make the PLAYERS responsible...
Show unity and support
BUT definately look into changing the Assistant coaches.

Let me rate the assistant coaches.

SOS - B+ : Has done well with our "attacking" defense, and worked pretty well with players who wouldn't normally be your first choice for KP defenders.

Rock - Clearances: A, Other: D : Our midfield unit has developed some great strategies, and worked well to incorporate our new big guys this year. Dominated clearances against Geelong (but got thumped by Richmond). Our midfielders also need to be link players and kick goals, Rock hasn't been able to provide the structure to do so.

Barker - F : Our clear deficiency, despite the embarrassment of riches in this department. If we can somehow lure Terry Daniher back to the club, we need to do that... NOW.

[tweedaletomanning]

On the contrary, extend his contract
Make the PLAYERS responsible...
Show unity and support
BUT definately look into changing the Assistant coaches.

Let me rate the assistant coaches.

SOS - B+ : Has done well with our "attacking" defense, and worked pretty well with players who wouldn't normally be your first choice for KP defenders.

Rock - Clearances: A, Other: D : Our midfield unit has developed some great strategies, and worked well to incorporate our new big guys this year. Dominated clearances against Geelong (but got thumped by Richmond). Our midfielders also need to be link players and kick goals, Rock hasn't been able to provide the structure to do so.

Barker - F : Our clear deficiency, despite the embarrassment of riches in this department. If we can somehow lure Terry Daniher back to the club, we need to do that... NOW.

Agree....
I guess the only reason John Barker got a gig down at moorabbi9n was becaiuse of his surname

[iwantmeseats]

We certainly cant sack him mid season! And were probably stuck with him till the enod of 09.

However IMO he is no coach, and we have stuffed up yet again. I venture to say this team has gone WAY backwards since RL took over. Killed any spirit and motivation in the joint.

Our membership next year will be interesting as well.

[RBnW]

The media are turning on Lyon and I doubt that the new Board are all that supportive as he wasn't their choice.

Archie Fraser seems to remain a strong supporter of Lyon: not much choice I guess as he was the true "genius" behind GT's sacking, not Butterss IMO (although Butterss was happy to go along with it for his own reasons once Fraser got the ball well and truly rolling).

I reckon Lyon is cactus barring a dramatic turn around in the next few weeks. I reckon that, if the Board decides that it wants to get rid of him, they shouldn't let him see out the season.

If we lose the next 3 or 4 and are clearly out of the running for the finals, why would the Board allow him to stay on as a lame duck and just dig us into a bigger and bigger hole? We will need to engender a sense of optimism at the place as soon as possible if we want to avoid losing our stars to other clubs. And I'd like to see Harves and Fraser finish their careers on something other than a total bummer.

Who do we bring in? The guy who we should have promoted when we sacked GT: Bundy. When you sack your coach suddenly and in acrimonious circumstances, and you can't get a proven performer from elsewhere, the only logical thing to do is to promote the 2IC. It worked ok at Sydney and the Crows, didn't it?

And it surely isn't too late for us to turn the clock back. The likes of Aussie and Cripps might make good assistants, and we should hang on to Silvagni if he wants to stay.

I know few on here will agree with me, but I still reckon I'm right.

well let us all go back to the future I noticed that B4E had a go at you for this post I am with him , unless you are related to one or all of the group of Bundy, GT & Cripps, which I suggest that you must be then bringing 1, 2 or all 3 of them back would be just the same as bringing back GT himself
Do we want to go back to trading our 1st round picks for the Brooks n Watts of the world, or taking Raph as a 1st round pick which is exactly what this group did to us, noy to talk about Penny and Sammy 5 year contracts, McGough
Lyon is paying for a lot of years of bad, no shocking decisions during the GT years and a lost chance in 2004
Get behind Lyon and get off your relatives barrow, they had thier chance and Blew it.....big time Blew it and you know that to be true

[Saint Bev]

[/quote]

I reckon (FWIW) that our biggest issue is Mental Toughness. RL has not been able to do anything about it and GT struggled with this as well. I think the gameplan, the talent are ok - it's just having that never say die, killer instinct that a Hamill, Powell possessed. There is really only Ball, Hayes, Roo and Maxie of the current bunch - along with the Harvs, who can stand tall when it gets tough. We twice surged to a 15 point lead against the Pies - and each time we looked set to go on with it. But the Pies clawed their way back through determination, toughness and mental strength. It is the missing link - the coach has to find these tough players and get them into the side. Armo is the new breed - he will be ok, Big Gardi is ok to - but we have to get the likes of Dal, Joey into the truly elite bracket by having them believe they cannot be beaten, WILL NOT be beaten - get that arrogance, they have everything else, they are superb footballers - they need mental toughness, killer instinct - thrash your opponent. Harvs could do it - thrived on it. Hamill especially so. Get that and Ross Lyon will coach a premiership team.[/quote]

Spot on, I would add Koz in with Dal & Joey. Also I believe our kicking needs to be addressed in a big way. If some of those points were goals, we would take alot of pressure of ourselves.

If we were to get rid of RL at this stage would be absolute madness. Obviously there are areas that need to be addressed, sacking the coach not only would make us the laughing stock of the AFL, it would set us back years.

[Teflon]

The media are turning on Lyon and I doubt that the new Board are all that supportive as he wasn't their choice.

Archie Fraser seems to remain a strong supporter of Lyon: not much choice I guess as he was the true "genius" behind GT's sacking, not Butterss IMO (although Butterss was happy to go along with it for his own reasons once Fraser got the ball well and truly rolling).

I reckon Lyon is cactus barring a dramatic turn around in the next few weeks. I reckon that, if the Board decides that it wants to get rid of him, they shouldn't let him see out the season.

If we lose the next 3 or 4 and are clearly out of the running for the finals, why would the Board allow him to stay on as a lame duck and just dig us into a bigger and bigger hole? We will need to engender a sense of optimism at the place as soon as possible if we want to avoid losing our stars to other clubs. And I'd like to see Harves and Fraser finish their careers on something other than a total bummer.

Who do we bring in? The guy who we should have promoted when we sacked GT: Bundy. When you sack your coach suddenly and in acrimonious circumstances, and you can't get a proven performer from elsewhere, the only logical thing to do is to promote the 2IC. It worked ok at Sydney and the Crows, didn't it?

And it surely isn't too late for us to turn the clock back. The likes of Aussie and Cripps might make good assistants, and we should hang on to Silvagni if he wants to stay.

I know few on here will agree with me, but I still reckon I'm right.

Dumbest post of the year.

Get back to Nimbin you dreary drone..FFS...."bring back Bundy..." geezus....hes been snapped up for a seniorrolesinc he left cause he learnt so much under the Ex Warnambool fella......