Aberration or reality check or both?

[WellardSaint]

One thing stands out to me. When we are getting soundly beaten, we turn the game into a combo of rugby union and Auskick.
Rolling mauls.
We strangle and smother the free-flow of the game for a stalemate until we can get the ball out the back for Higgo and others to run into a vacant fwd line.

We can't dominate like 17 other teams can (well, excluding Norf)
We can't arrest a slide with precision passes, dominating clearances, minimal turnovers, clever foreward craft, etc.

The Pies game was an outlier, an aberration.
Imagine Dees, Blues, a fully switched-on Pies letting us dominate like that again.
Or Power. Or a fully switched-on Lions.

If the rugby maul is 'Saints footy' then may the footy gods have mercy on us, because 17 other teams certainly won't.

We copped a touch up last year in a game called a 'mulligan' by our Moses, he of the 'Land of Milk n Honey' promises.

He used a similar trope for our pathetic showing vs our rivals, the Doggies.
'It's not us' he cried.

And Steele said 'it's not what we stand for' in a ridiculous weasel worded way just like the Boeing CEO after a door plug popped out.

Every single game from Fri night on, will reveal 'what we bloody stand for'.

I think the players stand for
'if things get a bit hot in the kitchen, we'll head outside and let someone else get their hands dirty'.
(King is the perfect barometer for the team as it stands now. With a few exceptions like Cal, RoMa, Steele, and Sincs pre-2024.
King has the tools, yet hasn't shown the heart ❤. Not in any meaningful way.)

Bookmark it.

[spert]

I think a lot of Saints supporters over-rate some of our players. We have a few older players who can get a bit of the ball, but a bunch of GOPs who are not going to turn into the next big thing.

[samoht]

Supporters are supporters.
The problem is, it's our recruiters who have over-rated our players and their recruiting ... "Winx this, Winx that""He slid to pick18 "etc . and keep under-rating obvious midfield talent.

What do we expect?

We (the supporters) should be doing the recruiting.

That's the reality.

[Vortex]

The answer to the question is always related to expectation.

It's a corporate product so expectation is manufactured hard.

Our Prez is a corporate spin doctor and as such is trained to deliver two modes, mode 1 is the salesman, mode 2 is the PR manager dealing with damage control.

We've had 2 key sales pitches from the Prez in his short tenure, first being the letter he expected us to be in the premiership window circa 2022. Second sales pitch was at the press conference to announce Lyon's appointment telling us he believed we had the list to challenge but not the coach.

PR manager in damage control mode was evident in his recent letter and curiously the timing of Lyons pre game comment he was nervous has many fans now confused.

And this is the problem with PR spin merchants running sporting clubs having to create illusions for revenue streams.

Unfortunately the average AFL fan wouldn't be out of place at a Trump rally and this is what we have looked like since tbe Bulldogs loss.

It drives me crazy to hear fans start to blame a coach or want a Max King traded...just crazy talk.

Yeah Max may not be turning out to be the marquee player we hoped but that doesn't mean he still can't be a useful asset in the ruck or up the ground.

And crickey the last shadow we should be jumping at is pointing the bone at Ross.

So abberation versus reality check is directly related to expectation so hands up if you thought we wouldn't slide this year like almost every neutral predicted? Because maybe it's on you if you couldn't see what was coming and that is a full hard rebuild that is years away from any potential journey into the top 4 region of the ladder.

[spert]

I thought at the time that Bassat bringing in Lyon was a PR stunt from a desperate president who was impatient for success, and who thought looking backwards was the answer. I was really disappointed with Lyon coming back, as I see him as the past, had his time and been out of the game for a while and never got any premierships. I really wanted to see someone like Corey Enright, who is highly regarded, to take us to the next step, and I reckon the Lyon move is doomed for failure ultimately.

[samoht]

A rebuild presupposes astute recruiting and drafting.
That would be an aberration for us.

A club like Geelong on the other hand .. just when we think they're past it, they keep proving us wrong, thanks to their drafting and recruiting.

[Vortex]

I thought at the time that Bassat bringing in Lyon was a PR stunt from a desperate president who was impatient for success, and who thought looking backwards was the answer. I was really disappointed with Lyon coming back, as I see him as the past, had his time and been out of the game for a while and never got any premierships. I really wanted to see someone like Corey Enright, who is highly regarded, to take us to the next step, and I reckon the Lyon move is doomed for failure ultimately.

I couldn't agree more re Bassett's motives for the Ratts sacking and bring Lyon back. It was a massive captain's pick and hail Mary last swing to distract the tsunami that was about to hit him if we didn't start performing. Used the oldest trick in the book of taking out the trash by doing it in October when all of the journalists were on holidays so the event would avoid scrutiny and Bassett's accountability in the period between his letterr claiming we were about to enter a premiership window then right up to Ratts sacking, which was really a very short time frame.

But here we are now so what to do. Well Basset needs to stick the coarse now with his captain's pick and bat away any temptation to pack it in. This current plan needs a long time for maturation. Talent acquisition is a long game and that's where it's at. You can change the coach as many times as you like, the trick is to have 2 things come together at the same time, talent and coaching. We have the coaches...just need the talent.

[samoht]

Too much energy is being wasted and misdirected on coaches and their importance ... concentrate on getting the all-important recruiting right, and everything else will fall into place.

I am not a fan of our current game plan, mind you.

[Yorkeys]

Years in the wilderness has made the core reactionary and have chronic inferiority feelings about our club's on field performance.
We are on the slow climb up from horrid depths. Wailing and gnashing of teeth after set backs is immature but completely understandable and inevitable. But that will effect very little positively, however if it gets loud enough it could derail the current path and be self fulfilling.
While we have Tim as a key forward and players like Jones and Bonner in the firsts we can't expect miracles. Plus everyone knows youth takes a few years to develop and being impatient doesn't change that. All sides have shockers.

[B.M]

Steven May is 100kg

It’s not just about HT

It’s about playing style and size

May is ridiculously strong overhead and a beast of a man

[samoht]

Anyway, when we get everyone fit and back, we will do okay.
Liam Henry was a big loss.
If Bonner and Stocker are considered bottom 6, we're not doing too badly.

[WellardSaint]

I thought at the time that Bassat bringing in Lyon was a PR stunt from a desperate president who was impatient for success, and who thought looking backwards was the answer. I was really disappointed with Lyon coming back, as I see him as the past, had his time and been out of the game for a while and never got any premierships. I really wanted to see someone like Corey Enright, who is highly regarded, to take us to the next step, and I reckon the Lyon move is doomed for failure ultimately.

Fantastic post.
Boris would be an awesome head coach.

Problem was, sacking Ratts and promoting Boris wouldn't fly with a lot of the board, coterie, and some supporters.

Lyon coming back is the fairytale return.
Like Thor putting on weight in a movie recently, then getting back into shape to be Thor 2.0

Lyon, Goddard, Hayes, Harves, was always gonna wash away the bad taste of chopping Ratts.
The Band is back together.
Corey could never get the main gig unless it was a planned succession.

He'll go to Suns, Tigers, Blues, Cats, anywhere that doesn't have our club's baggage

[Otiman]

One thing stands out to me. When we are getting soundly beaten, we turn the game into a combo of rugby union and Auskick.
Rolling mauls.
We strangle and smother the free-flow of the game for a stalemate until we can get the ball out the back for Higgo and others to run into a vacant fwd line.

It's the slow-fast game.

Slow the game down and try to catch your opponent out when the whole team changes gear on a dime.

[Yorkeys]

Our rock solid defence imploded early, yes? House of Cards then fell?
Dougal hammy, Jimmy suspended, for some reason Wilks has not reached heights/consistency of 2023, Sincs calf injury meant he missed a bit of preseason/lost form and sides have realised that tagging NWM puts a hard break on our rebounding capability.

The forwards continue their mediocrity. Membrey is no match winner, Higgins criminally inaccurate, Butler not potent if he ever was, Owens seems to have become iffy at goal kicking and makes errors with field kicking and poor Cooper is like the dutch boy at the dyke trying to plug too many holes.

On reflection, its a wonder we have won two and gone close. Can only hope the cavalry arrives soonish. Hope Ross can kid them into believing they can win Friday and they do.

[MC Gusto]

We have a lot of players injured it’s true

Clearly also we are playing those (for the most part) we see as the future…getting experience into youth at the cost of short term wins

Probably majority had notionally thought we will move forward this season and I think in a lot of ways we will, may not be win loss ratio tho!!

[Otiman]

A few days out and i'm ready to answer the question in the threads title.

It must be both.

If we (the club internally and players) don't accept its an aberration, we accept we are rubbish and may as well not play out the season. We need to accept that our best is good enough, which will spur us on to success.

As supporters we should be one with the club. The noise from the outside is louder than people think. The ramblings of a madman on a backwater forum in the dark edges of the internet somehow do matter. The same as the ramblings of the collective "that saints guy" in the office. The same as the passionate but disjointed feedback radio caller.

It's also a reality check:
- If you don't prepare to the elite level, you'll get done
- If you over commit 3 games in a row, you'll get done in the fourth
- If you don't manage your training and travel load, you'll get done
- If even some of the team doesn't buy into the success mentality, you'll get done
- Team mentality over the individual is critical (players, coaches, staff)
- If we are not 'on' then our gameplan fails miserably - need another gear or we need to be 'on' all the time.

[cwrcyn]

The negative noise is pointless.

People who say our list isn't good enough then go off their nut when the team doesn't perform like the Harlem Globetrotters evey week.

If you accept the weaknesses in the list then you have to wear it when we have the odd game when things don't work out.

Currently, we have a list lacking in midfield quality and depth. It should be obvious then that having Crouch, Dow, Clark, Henry and Wood out puts more pressure on that midfield to perform.

On top of that, we also had King, Webster, and Howard unavailable and that's one third of your team.

There's no reality check if you had realistic expectations of what this list was capable of

As far as an aberration, I'd say it was because we've only had three games out of 30 where we've been blown away . Last Thursday was an abnormal performance against the backdrop of a very short turnaround from the previous game where we pushed ourselves to the limit in the last quarter.

That said, I'm not expecting a win this week. We're still down on numbers against a higher rated team with a killer midfield.

[Otiman]

The negative noise is pointless.

The negativity is therapy for those who are too attached to the success of the club.

We are all tragics and this is just footy therapy.

[The Fireman]

This was on our saints app. How embarrassing.

Tonight's game was the club's third match in 11 days, two of which against Adelaide and GWS were played interstate at Norwood Oval and Manuka Oval respectively.

[Vortex]

The negative noise is pointless.

People who say our list isn't good enough then go off their nut when the team doesn't perform like the Harlem Globetrotters evey week.

If you accept the weaknesses in the list then you have to wear it when we have the odd game when things don't work out.

Currently, we have a list lacking in midfield quality and depth. It should be obvious then that having Crouch, Dow, Clark, Henry and Wood out puts more pressure on that midfield to perform.

On top of that, we also had King, Webster, and Howard unavailable and that's one third of your team.

There's no reality check if you had realistic expectations of what this list was capable of

As far as an aberration, I'd say it was because we've only had three games out of 30 where we've been blown away . Last Thursday was an abnormal performance against the backdrop of a very short turnaround from the previous game where we pushed ourselves to the limit in the last quarter.

That said, I'm not expecting a win this week. We're still down on numbers against a higher rated team with a killer midfield.

The signs were there against GWS and Richmond that the Bulldogs game wasn't an abberation, 1 goal in a half was putrid. I fear for what's coming against Port.

[Killa]

We have improved our List this season because all of Henry, Wilson and Garcia have been added

We lost Gresham, Billings and Coffield

It is my opinion we have improved our List because the 3 we have added still have their careers in front of them

Now to get some of our core, experienced players back to give them the support they crave (as Riewoldt had Gehrig and Hamill alongside)

[Yorkeys]

Unfortunately Membrey & Higgins are no Gehrig & Hammill.
Hopefully Wilkie can mentor the young defenders in the VFL.