Club's head of mental health & wellbeing resigns

[shanegrambeau]

Mental health is a thing in my windscreen

When in Japan my Dutch doc said that Australia has a fantastic mental health industry and that Japanese docs know s*** about it

So just out curiosity, I rang the closest clinic with a psychiatrist (s).

This is what they said! (Check it out)

I need a referral from a local GP
Then, I go on to a waiting list for six months
Then I can choose a doc- rates? Glad you asked. $570-670 per hour!! Get 145 or so back on Medicare if it works.

Wow
The f***
Wow
Holy smoke

[Scollop]

For anyone contemplating seeking professional advice, I think it's important to do some research on the difference between psychology and psychiatry too

Some psychologists are offering 10 free sessions

They're actually 'free' for you but essentially taxpayer funded through Medicare.

https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/me ... text=60092

There's a fine line between mental health and some neurological or medical conditions. Depression can sometimes be misdiagnosed

https://www.medicalofficesofmanhattan.c ... disorders/

CTE is a hot topic, but it's only one of a number degenerative brain disorders that can cause anxiety and depression

I recently watched a documentary on the comedy genius and actor Robin Williams, who was suffering from a debilitating disease that was attacking his brain. People thought it was depression that drove him to take his own life. Doctors may have misdiagnosed Parkinson’s disease as well.

Williams was diagnosed with Parkinson’s disease a few months before he died; however the telltale signs of Lewy body dementia were not discovered until after his death and an autopsy revealed the extent of damage to all parts of his brain.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... williams1/

[shanegrambeau]

- 4.7 million Australians filed a prescription for a mental pill last year. 18% of the population

- You need a doctor (real doctor with a medical degree and license to practice medicine) to fill out that prescription

- very few psychiatrists bulk bill and the ones that do all know that it takes longer than ten weeks to help a person learn how to live - wait!! Unless we start them on the merry-go-round of pills

- so psychologists? What are they? I’m so far as the average punk on the street can tell, it is a complete roll of the dice and the dice has no 5 or 6 on it cos they can’t deal with meds

- so what is the compromise ?

People get the bare minimum - i.e. some counselling here and there, YouTube self ‘education’, friends and family, they make up stories about themselves, a visit to a local GO can get them a prescription for meds and they can - “see how you go and come back in a month” ..”then we can try another med or change the dose”

I think it’s a total mess but we are doing what we can..

For psychologists it is definitely a ‘sellers’ market

If you run an organization you hire a psych to protect yourself not to help and fundamentally change your staff. For what would you want them to change anyway? As soon as a story breaks you can say that you do the responsible thing by making sure you have a psych team in the organization (who will make surveys for staff- likely an outsourced thing too)

I am sooo cynical about the industry but I am not smart enough to know a better way- as I said I think it is ‘let’s make through the best we can’

We will find a better way in this post religion world, somehow , or we won’t and we’ll all surrender to God again and start going to church.. and be humble and beg and pray

[Otiman]

It's interesting, psychologists are graduating and can't find work. There is a huge disparity to the more experienced practitioners and the career path is broken.

[shanegrambeau]

It's interesting, psychologists are graduating and can't find work. There is a huge disparity to the more experienced practitioners and the career path is broken.

No doubt
And I bet my last penny, a lot do psych as a major thinking they’ll go in big coin when they see the fees that psychologists charge.

But they are really only an ‘elite’ group that make that coin …and they are supported in a pyramid scheme.
At the bottom are the graduates who are lured into Pat-grad studies .

In the middle are those who made it through that hoop by doing a (a highly subjective and political choice) PhD in one particular disorder which they then motivated to promulgate. But these people find themselves in a clinic or group where they pliantly work for a boss.

They learn that meds are a fact of life that they have to work with. That their clients are probably on them and have to accommodate the devil in their midst ..

They tell you not to drink but they won’t dare say stop meds unless you say it first. And meds are a part of the picture now. But who cares. They got a business to run! As you say, do they wanna end up broke and unemployed?

Then they break out and run a business themselves - or they go on to YouTube and be come megastar Dr Gjis or That.

By that stage they know the real story but they have to eat and why not make some coin??

Psychology is considered a dud major to do in the states because millions just do the degree, see the reality and go get another job. So the employment rate is low.

Then some persist but it is a hustle.

That’s not to put them down. I saw a psych once in Melbourne and he was solid. But even then I could tell he was working a particular modality (about emotionally checking yourself and noticing your emotional state and using it to determine your compass in situations- it’s a disaster for but..)

So psychologists can’t get much Medicare money either ..

I think a lot just make surveys or apps and collect data from them.

They’ll have questions like,
I had a psychiatrist give me one of these in Japan..
‘What time did you want to get up this morning?’
‘What time did you get up?’

And if you had no predetermined plan to get up at a certain time, there is no place to write it. You have to make up a time to move forward with the questionnaire.
Such BS!!

But I think psychs in organizations function like a social worker.
Empathy
Source of support emotionally
Can give info
Carry out surveys

But they ain’t gonna help players first hand
Too much

Neither is a psychologist (they can’t)

[ace]

I think I'm asking the broader philosophical question in relation to much of the modern capitalist life we are born into, even if we want our children to take the simpler life is it really possible, and is the life one choses going to need the support of many other humans such as mental health experts just to get one through to the grave. It wasn't that long ago such support was required to survive life. The obvious solution is to choose a simpler life and be content with less.

You said it "be content with less".
Unfortunately too many want and expect to be given more.
AFL players are amongst those who want more with few exceptions.
It is a sport where there is big money to be made followed by a massive financial hit upon retirement and having to get a real job often with no skills.

[SAINT-LEE]

Theres a glut of registered psychologists & social workers with medicare provider numbers. They generally earn $45-75 hourly working for an organisation. If they have a practice they may earn more or if they milk the NDIS cow there's $173.50 hr on tap.

Like any industry its a scale on the effectiveness of a skilled person to support, impact & guide towards change.
I've worked with approximately 70 psychologists, 31 psychiatrists and 116 social workers who all did/do mental health counselling. I would only refer people to 5 of these as truly of value.

The very best outcomes have been from a man who was a life coach, until recently gaining a Masters in Mental Health. He operates a model of care that is well known but rarely used in the medical model BECAUSE it actually works.

I know from experience any person genuinelly wanting help would be transformed with his support. His rates are mid 100's an hour.

There's many "unregistered" counsellors of his calibre who outperform by heaps the average classically trained psychologist.

Thus doesnt mean there arent great psychologists, but the really great ones are rarely available and if they are its insanely expensive.

[SAINT-LEE]

Theres a glut of registered psychologists & social workers with medicare provider numbers. They generally earn $45-75 hourly working for an organisation. If they have a practice they may earn more or if they milk the NDIS cow there's $173.50 hr on tap.

Like any industry its a scale on the effectiveness of a skilled person to support, impact & guide towards change.
I've worked with approximately 70 psychologists, 31 psychiatrists and 116 social workers who all did/do mental health counselling. I would only refer people to 5 of these as truly of value.

The very best outcomes have been from a man who was a life coach, until recently gaining a Masters in Mental Health. He operates a model of care that is well known but rarely used in the medical model BECAUSE it actually works.

I know from experience any person genuinelly wanting help would be transformed with his support. His rates are mid 100's an hour.

There's many "unregistered" counsellors of his calibre who outperform by heaps the average classically trained psychologist.
By unregistered, I mean not by APHRA but within ACA or PACFA.

This doesnt mean there arent great psychologists, but the really great ones are rarely available and if they are its insanely expensive.

[B.M]

Highly regarded and popular is Ben Robbins

So was Nick Walsh

Will Ross shoot Bambi and get rid of Hayes or Harvey

Midfield stoppages were poor
Converting forward half entries to scores we were 18th

[Yorkeys]

Highly regarded and popular is Ben Robbins

So was Nick Walsh

Will Ross shoot Bambi and get rid of Hayes or Harvey

Midfield stoppages were poor
Converting forward half entries to scores we were 18th

Non sequiter? Anyway for those who have come in late, our mid field was crap but the coaches almost conjured up a silk purse out of sows ears cut-offs.

[Scollop]

Highly regarded and popular is Ben Robbins

So was Nick Walsh

Will Ross shoot Bambi and get rid of Hayes or Harvey

Midfield stoppages were poor
Converting forward half entries to scores we were 18th

Non sequiter? Anyway for those who have come in late, our mid field was crap but the coaches almost conjured up a silk purse out of sows ears cut-offs.

Funny how the narrative changes.

B.M mentioned our midfield and our forward entry efficiency. These are issues that had plagued Ratten for 2 years.

Did changing coaches fix these problems?

Let's go back a bit....



After Round 1 in 2022, people were calling for a complete overhaul of the football department and a complete rebuild after we lost to Collingwood. The narrative after the round 1 loss becomes 'get Clarko and sack Ratten!!

Collingwood were no good apparently because despite the fact that they had quality players and played in finals and a Grand Final we should have easily beaten them ...khhhhhmmmm they made a prelim last year just to highlight how wrong people can be!!

Unfortunately for those plotting, St Kilda start winning and sat at 8-3 half way into 2022. The Saints extend Ratts contract. The whole club is excited at the prospect of playing finals. The President and the boss of football believe we have the list capable of winning the premiership.

When we were going well under Brett Ratten, no one here said the list was crap and Ratts was doing an amazing job.

By round 22, we have a chorus of people saying the team had underperformed. Ratts is sacked.

Expectations for 2023 prior to Round 1 are tempered. The coach and the club, don't set the same goals and targets for finals as was the case in 2022.

And here we are in September 2023... Yorkeys repeats the message from the marketing department at St Kilda .. regarding the playing list that coaches "conjured up a silk purse out of sows ears cut-offs"

Let's see what the narrative will be after a few rounds into 2024

[Vortex]

Highly regarded and popular is Ben Robbins

So was Nick Walsh

Will Ross shoot Bambi and get rid of Hayes or Harvey

Midfield stoppages were poor
Converting forward half entries to scores we were 18th

Non sequiter? Anyway for those who have come in late, our mid field was crap but the coaches almost conjured up a silk purse out of sows ears cut-offs.

Funny how the narrative changes.

B.M mentioned our midfield and our forward entry efficiency. These are issues that had plagued Ratten for 2 years.

Did changing coaches fix these problems?

Let's go back a bit....



After Round 1 in 2022, people were calling for a complete overhaul of the football department and a complete rebuild after we lost to Collingwood. The narrative after the round 1 loss becomes 'get Clarko and sack Ratten!!

Collingwood were no good apparently because despite the fact that they had quality players and played in finals and a Grand Final we should have easily beaten them ...khhhhhmmmm they made a prelim last year just to highlight how wrong people can be!!

Unfortunately for those plotting, St Kilda start winning and sat at 8-3 half way into 2022. The Saints extend Ratts contract. The whole club is excited at the prospect of playing finals. The President and the boss of football believe we have the list capable of winning the premiership.

When we were going well under Brett Ratten, no one here said the list was crap and Ratts was doing an amazing job.

By round 22, we have a chorus of people saying the team had underperformed. Ratts is sacked.

Expectations for 2023 prior to Round 1 are tempered. The coach and the club, don't set the same goals and targets for finals as was the case in 2022.

And here we are in September 2023... Yorkeys repeats the message from the marketing department at St Kilda .. regarding the playing list that coaches "conjured up a silk purse out of sows ears cut-offs"

Let's see what the narrative will be after a few rounds into 2024

Bassett proved in a very public way he was absolutely clueless about what was happening below him, prior to his captain's pick he was very invested in anything but the proper running of the club' mostly with his business interests. Which is fair enough but this is something I'd like to see change at the club.

I'd like to see a board that is heavily stacked with full time employees with a strong football pedigree. I'd like there to be at least 2 board members with seruous experience in talent acquisition and work directly with the list management department. I'd like to also see atleast another 2 board members with serious coaching pedigree, Leigh Mathews types.


I would also like to see the coaching IP owned by the club and not an individual with only the assistants reporting to the head coach and have management resources take care of any non game day tasks.

[CQ SAINT]

Let's turn our attention back to the crippling debt and insolvency this current Pres was facing in 2020 first, should we.

Then we can revisit his decisions to fix the football department once half the debt was repaid and we were 'back at Moorabbin' with membership records stacking up, revenue and assets rising year after year and our debt dissolving rapidly.

There's a lot of fast talk and short memories around here.

[shanegrambeau]

Highly regarded and popular is Ben Robbins

So was Nick Walsh

Will Ross shoot Bambi and get rid of Hayes or Harvey

Midfield stoppages were poor
Converting forward half entries to scores we were 18th

Non sequiter? Anyway for those who have come in late, our mid field was crap but the coaches almost conjured up a silk purse out of sows ears cut-offs.

...

Let's go back a bit....
..

When we were going well under Brett Ratten, no one here said the list was crap and Ratts was doing an amazing job.

By round 22, we have a chorus of people saying the team had underperformed. Ratts is sacked.

....

I don't remember it like that.
I thought (and said here)

1) The 8-3 scoreline flattered us
2) We still had a weak midfield
3) He had a good month, then picked up a couple of opportunistic wins (Adelaide who were crap, and North Melbouren who were imploding that very week before the game)
4) That the decision to re-appoint Ratts was wrong, and that the team had to delay the announcement until after a win (I think bad losses both preceeded and followed that week)
5) at the end of the season it was then evident that Ratts management had forced St Kilda's hand. They ahd asked St Kilda for guarantees of mid-season talks befor eth first ball of the season had been bounced
6( St Kilda played a cold hand by going ahead with the signing, knowing that they could break the deal if necessary

Anyway, something was really wrong and I don't think all the people here either thought we were really that good (8-3) just as they didn't thionk we were really that good his year. I think most of us would say we are about a 10th on the ladder in terms of performance. And incredibly fortunate to be even in the finals this year.

So what I am really saying is that our list is still perecived to be poor with a few shifts in nuamce i.e. Owens arrives, but JOnes slips, Windy shows up but Billings slips, Caminiti comes but Membrey fades, Pou v Ross etx

[Scollop]

Anyway, something was really wrong and I don't think all the people here either thought we were really that good (8-3) ....

I think most of us would say we are about a 10th on the ladder in terms of performance. And incredibly fortunate to be even in the finals this year.

So ....you're saying the ladder does tell lies

[B.M]

Of course it does halfway through the season - because it’s an uneven draw

We deserved to play final - we also deserved to get beaten in the elimination final

[Vortex]

Let's turn our attention back to the crippling debt and insolvency this current Pres was facing in 2020 first, should we.

Then we can revisit his decisions to fix the football department once half the debt was repaid and we were 'back at Moorabbin' with membership records stacking up, revenue and assets rising year after year and our debt dissolving rapidly.

There's a lot of fast talk and short memories around here.

The club is still in serious debt and only wiped a big chunk off the ledger because of a $3 million gift.

[shanegrambeau]

Let's turn our attention back to the crippling debt and insolvency this current Pres was facing in 2020 first, should we.

Then we can revisit his decisions to fix the football department once half the debt was repaid and we were 'back at Moorabbin' with membership records stacking up, revenue and assets rising year after year and our debt dissolving rapidly.

There's a lot of fast talk and short memories around here.

The club is still in serious debt and only wiped a big chunk off the ledger because of a $3 million gift.

We are in the franchise - just.
Rank of private.

Our debt is a number on a chip on a playing board of the AFL.
It is a marked chip
A tainted chip

On the back is written in bold print

Twilight Sunday
Use to demonstrate AFL rules (eg. Paddy Ryder suspend)

In fine print
New Zealand
China
Tassie
Merge

[Otiman]

Thread getting well off the rails but we got dudded with the Docklands deal and are only just recovering after having to sell games to Tassie, NZ and China.

Seaford the only other major financial blight on the club, which was effectively forced by the council at Moorabbin.