Ross Lyon’s year of experimentation

[saynta]

Yes, we've only used 31 players. So who didn't get a gig?


McKenzie: Injured all yer
Hotton: First year player injured most of the year
Keeler: First year player injured for half of the year
Campbell: Back up ruckman who hasn't been required
Van Es: First year player who has not overly impressed with his performances
Allison: injured for most of the year
Adams: Injured for first part of season. Not performing well enough to be played
Coffield: Injured for most or the year
Hayes: injured for most of the year
Heath: Young developing ruckman not required to play and probably not ready
Highmore: Good form in VFL. Probably deserved a chance at some stage
McLennan: First year player injured for most of the year
Connolly: Has been good (and ordinary) at times. Probably deserved a shot at some stage

Out of all those players only Highmore would have realistically been considered for selection. Most other players dealt with significant lay-offs due to injury and simply do not have either the fitness or the body of work to justify selection.

We know that if they were fit, McKenzie, Coffield, and Hayes would have played in the senior team. Hotton may have got 3 or 4 games.

Only Highmore, Campbell, and Connolly could have genuinely been considered for selection this season, and realistically it would only have been as a back up, as there are players in the seniors who already have their respective positions covered.


You can't explore the value of players if they are not available or don't have the requisite fitness level to play in the seniors. You can't select them if their VFL form is ordinary, either. Selection integrity, anyone?


Can't stick this one on the coach. It's just not logical to do so.

Bytel hasn't been given a fair go but he is of course one of the 31 played.

Highmore and Connolly are bleeding obvious omissions.

Campbell hasn't been dealt a fair hand either.

Peris was given one game ffs. Hooton ignored.

No, it is obvious to me that they want to win games more than experiment, and there is nothing wrong with that.

So I say cut the bulls*** with this year of discovery crap.

[Scollop]

Most RL haters don't use the 'h' term, but they may as well, because their posts don't fool anyone.

Sometimes it's the flock and the sheep that are fooled by following their shepherd

I don't hate him, I just don't believe him as blindly as others.

I also don't rate him. I think our 2009 team showed what they were capable of. We were like a Formula 1 car at the Grand Prix that's laps ahead of its opponents. He had the best Ferrari on the track and he made us run out of gas on the last lap

Ex team mate Paul Roos and coach at Fitzroy -Robert Walls were high profile media commentators during Lyon's time as Saints coach.

They pumped him up to be the best coach going around, even though he failed to get the chocolates and others around him were winning multiple flags.

[The Fireman]

RTB is my Shepard

In RTB I trust


Fanboy

[Scollop]

Bytel hasn't been given a fair go but he is of course one of the 31 played.

Highmore and Connolly are bleeding obvious omissions.

Campbell hasn't been dealt a fair hand either.

Peris was given one game ffs. Hooton ignored.

No, it is obvious to me that they want to win games more than experiment, and there is nothing wrong with that.

So I say cut the bulls*** with this year of discovery crap.

Good point you raise about utilising the whole list. One of my main gripes with Ross Lyon was that he didn't do that in the past and it may have cost us dearly when it came to the pointy end.

Let's assume we are humming in 2025 and we've got several players leading awards like the coaches association votes and 3 or 4 guys in contention for All Australian honours, as well as 2 young guys from the 2024 draft who are impacting in their first year.

Let's also assume the team keeps humming throughout the year and by late in the season that we are flag favourites (fingers crossed). Why wouldn't you contemplate sharing the workload?

Assume it's Round 15 or 16 and you look assured of at least making top 4, if not top 2.

Why wouldn't you trust your systems and structure, your leadership and your player leaders and the culture and work ethic of the club?

We had a couple of blokes in Dal Santo and Gram and possibly a few others who seemed to be carrying niggles late in the year after a long campaign in 2009. Not sure if Gwilt was injury free but he also could have filled in.

Why would you risk some of your players being worn out and weary before the start of finals as was the case in 2009.... especially when a top 2 spot was secured by Round 16.

I think several of our players could have performed better on GF day if the workload was shared in the lead up and especially the last 6 rounds of home and away.

This was the year when we had 3 young fellas (Geary, Steven and Armitage) who should have played more games in the home and away rounds and also perhaps Armo and Steven in particular could have been used in the Grand Final but Ross hadn't seen enough of them. Experimentation was foreign to him. He famously said 'they had to serve their apprenticeship'

[cwrcyn]

Only three players have had consistently good form in the VFL.

Bytel
Highmore
Campbell

Peris has had some good and some bad, as has Connolly. They have been trying to develop Connolly's game, but he's been just so so as a mid. Peris did okay in his first senior game,but dislodging Butler or Higgins is a tough gig.


Now, I'm all forgiving young guys opportunities, and yes, Bytel should have played more games. Unfortunately, each time a spot opened up he got injured. Just rotten luck.

Campbell should only have played in three or four games when it may have been tactically useful to do so. Otherwise, there was no reason to play him.

Everyone else simply hasn't shown enough or been match for fo AFL.

As far as a year of exploration is concerned, it's not just about the guys in the VFL. Assessments will have been made on every player on the list, be they fringe VFL or regular AFL players

[Mr Magic]

Scollop,
You need to get over the fact that Lyon is now our coach.
Your continual negativity about him has become tiresome (to me at least).
Thread after thread being spammed by you with negative posts about Lyon.

In this respect you're as bad as Vortex, (Saintsational's current spammer).

I get it - you don't like Lyon as our coach.
It's a view shared by some others but none seem as determined to keep posting about it as you.

I don't need to read about it constantly - you've made your point repeatedly.
It's now boring and becoming annoying to me (and I'm assuming others)
Inventing different ways to say it doesn't change that you keep posting the same thing - you don't like Lyon as our coach.

You're entitled to your view, as is everybody else on here.
BUT
your continued disparaging of anything/everything he does/doesn't do is wearing thin.

[Vortex]

Scollop,
You need to get over the fact that Lyon is now our coach.
Your continual negativity about him has become tiresome (to me at least).
Thread after thread being spammed by you with negative posts about Lyon.

In this respect you're as bad as Vortex, (Saintsational's current spammer).

I get it - you don't like Lyon as our coach.
It's a view shared by some others but none seem as determined to keep posting about it as you.

I don't need to read about it constantly - you've made your point repeatedly.
It's now boring and becoming annoying to me (and I'm assuming others)
Inventing different ways to say it doesn't change that you keep posting the same thing - you don't like Lyon as our coach.

You're entitled to your view, as is everybody else on here.
BUT
your continued disparaging of anything/everything he does/doesn't do is wearing thin.

And your constant attacks on posters you don’t like isn’t spamming, annoying, boring or wearing thin?

The ignore function is there for all to use including yourself, let me know if you’d like me to post instructions on how to use it?

[The Fireman]

I have to admit, I don’t understand the negativity shown by some of the posters towards Ross the boss ,maybe it’s the term Ross the boss that upsets them?
This Ross may not be the same as the last Ross, we talk about how he utilises players who he wants in and he doesn’t. He has surrounded himself with past club champions and I get the feeling he allows them a certain amount of decision-making. Otherwise why would he have recruited them in the first place?
For me I am just so glad to be in the top eight so late in the season and also look towards next season with improved hope. a hope that I did not have last season.

For the are RTB detractors just sit back, cross your fingers and enjoy the ride


RTB fanboy

[magnifisaint]

People are still annoyed with him deceiving St Kilda and walking to Fremantle. I don't think it was a great act.

[Mr Magic]

Scollop,
You need to get over the fact that Lyon is now our coach.
Your continual negativity about him has become tiresome (to me at least).
Thread after thread being spammed by you with negative posts about Lyon.

In this respect you're as bad as Vortex, (Saintsational's current spammer).

I get it - you don't like Lyon as our coach.
It's a view shared by some others but none seem as determined to keep posting about it as you.

I don't need to read about it constantly - you've made your point repeatedly.
It's now boring and becoming annoying to me (and I'm assuming others)
Inventing different ways to say it doesn't change that you keep posting the same thing - you don't like Lyon as our coach.

You're entitled to your view, as is everybody else on here.
BUT
your continued disparaging of anything/everything he does/doesn't do is wearing thin.

And your constant attacks on posters you don’t like isn’t spamming, annoying, boring or wearing thin?

The ignore function is there for all to use including yourself, let me know if you’d like me to post instructions on how to use it?

Scollop doesn't need the Saintsational arsehole to defend him - he's perfectly capable of doing it himself.
For years you've been annoying this forum (under different names)
How about you just go forth and multiply?

[Mr Magic]

People are still annoyed with him deceiving St Kilda and walking to Fremantle. I don't think it was a great act.

I agree with you, and I'm still annoyed with what he did and how he did it. Just as I am with what Luke Ball did and how he did it.
BUT Lyon's been appointed our Coach and I think it's pretty obvious that under him we've improved this year. So I can give him credit for that as I'm only interested in us improving.

[skeptic]

People are still annoyed with him deceiving St Kilda and walking to Fremantle. I don't think it was a great act.

Yeah I was annoyed about it too as well as our GF losses for which personally, I hold him to greater account than most.

And I boo’d and taunted him whilst he was at Freo, taking great delight in all his short comings…

But it’s not right to let those things that happened 5-10+ years ago influence your perception of his current performance.

For me so far it’s been pretty reasonable with exceeded results, a long patch of poor form and conservative selection. All in all a decent first year with the promise to stamp his authority on the list with some big decisions/moves and then we’ll see the rest of the picture form.

[The Fireman]

People are still annoyed with him deceiving St Kilda and walking to Fremantle. I don't think it was a great act.

As I was at the time. But we have to move on and back him like we do the players

He wants success and so do we

[Yorkeys]

If he fails we fail.
Only Vortex wants that.
Maybe Scollop wouldn't be too upset.

[Scollop]

If he fails we fail.
Only Vortex wants that.
Maybe Scollop wouldn't be too upset.

C'mon mate. You're better than that.

I go along to support my team and our players. I've always done that and I never had a RTB badge or poster or flag.

My lounge room, dining room and bedroom is littered with Saints club and player memorabilia and membership scarves and caps over the last 25 years. Same with my son and other members of my family.

I just don't give 1 person the credit that some on here give him for the success our club enjoyed in 09/10.

I hope we have a strong President and CEO and strong footy directors and I hope they make decisions in the long term interests of St Kilda and not to just save face, or try and protect the reputation of Ross Lyon.

I want him to succeed because he's our coach. I want our club to be successful. I hope this team of Lenny, Harves, BJ and his other support crew in Misson stay united for the next 4 years.

I've stated that several times. I haven't wavered

[Scollop]

Inventing different ways to say it doesn't change that you keep posting the same thing - you don't like Lyon as our coach.

I apologise for boring you.

I don't care about his personality. I just care about his ability to coach.

I do like some of his qualities. I think that if he delegates and has a strong support crew we will have success.

I think there's room for improvement. I think he's a better coach and a different coach to his first time around. His time at Fremantle taught him a lot and they were in rebuild in 2017/2018, so that experience will help him with our younger players.

There is a difference between not rating some one as highly as others, with not liking someone.

[Vortex]

Scollop,
You need to get over the fact that Lyon is now our coach.
Your continual negativity about him has become tiresome (to me at least).
Thread after thread being spammed by you with negative posts about Lyon.

In this respect you're as bad as Vortex, (Saintsational's current spammer).

I get it - you don't like Lyon as our coach.
It's a view shared by some others but none seem as determined to keep posting about it as you.

I don't need to read about it constantly - you've made your point repeatedly.
It's now boring and becoming annoying to me (and I'm assuming others)
Inventing different ways to say it doesn't change that you keep posting the same thing - you don't like Lyon as our coach.

You're entitled to your view, as is everybody else on here.
BUT
your continued disparaging of anything/everything he does/doesn't do is wearing thin.

And your constant attacks on posters you don’t like isn’t spamming, annoying, boring or wearing thin?

The ignore function is there for all to use including yourself, let me know if you’d like me to post instructions on how to use it?

Scollop doesn't need the Saintsational arsehole to defend him - he's perfectly capable of doing it himself.
For years you've been annoying this forum (under different names)
How about you just go forth and multiply?

I find it incredibly hilarious that anyone would be annoyed by anything on the internet let alone a forum for anonymous posters. I suppose that's why they say the worst thing that happened to society in the last 30 years was because boomers got access to social media.

Anyway as I say, let me know if you want instructions on how to use the foe feature to put posters on ignore, it's really good for your generation and the "cancel culture".

[Teflon]

If he fails we fail.
Only Vortex wants that.
Maybe Scollop wouldn't be too upset.

Loving the foe button now I must say !!

[Mr Magic]

Scollop,
You need to get over the fact that Lyon is now our coach.
Your continual negativity about him has become tiresome (to me at least).
Thread after thread being spammed by you with negative posts about Lyon.

In this respect you're as bad as Vortex, (Saintsational's current spammer).

I get it - you don't like Lyon as our coach.
It's a view shared by some others but none seem as determined to keep posting about it as you.

I don't need to read about it constantly - you've made your point repeatedly.
It's now boring and becoming annoying to me (and I'm assuming others)
Inventing different ways to say it doesn't change that you keep posting the same thing - you don't like Lyon as our coach.

You're entitled to your view, as is everybody else on here.
BUT
your continued disparaging of anything/everything he does/doesn't do is wearing thin.

And your constant attacks on posters you don’t like isn’t spamming, annoying, boring or wearing thin?

The ignore function is there for all to use including yourself, let me know if you’d like me to post instructions on how to use it?

Scollop doesn't need the Saintsational arsehole to defend him - he's perfectly capable of doing it himself.
For years you've been annoying this forum (under different names)
How about you just go forth and multiply?

I find it incredibly hilarious that anyone would be annoyed by anything on the internet let alone a forum for anonymous posters. I suppose that's why they say the worst thing that happened to society in the last 30 years was because boomers got access to social media.

Anyway as I say, let me know if you want instructions on how to use the foe feature to put posters on ignore, it's really good for your generation and the "cancel culture".

Wanker

[asiu]

righteo

just so i can stay on trend

reporting other posters is now passé
'n we've greighed over to NoGoFoe

cool
got it

this should be fun

modern minds are quite the thing

[The Fireman]

Yeah I’m a fan of Vietnamese cuisine….

How ironic how some one thinks that it’s hilarious that people get annoyed on the internet when their sole aim is to annoy everyone on the internet

[Mr Magic]

I don’t foe anybody
I prefer to tell them direct what I think of their post(s)

[Vortex]

Scollop,
You need to get over the fact that Lyon is now our coach.
Your continual negativity about him has become tiresome (to me at least).
Thread after thread being spammed by you with negative posts about Lyon.

In this respect you're as bad as Vortex, (Saintsational's current spammer).

I get it - you don't like Lyon as our coach.
It's a view shared by some others but none seem as determined to keep posting about it as you.

I don't need to read about it constantly - you've made your point repeatedly.
It's now boring and becoming annoying to me (and I'm assuming others)
Inventing different ways to say it doesn't change that you keep posting the same thing - you don't like Lyon as our coach.

You're entitled to your view, as is everybody else on here.
BUT
your continued disparaging of anything/everything he does/doesn't do is wearing thin.

And your constant attacks on posters you don’t like isn’t spamming, annoying, boring or wearing thin?

The ignore function is there for all to use including yourself, let me know if you’d like me to post instructions on how to use it?

Scollop doesn't need the Saintsational arsehole to defend him - he's perfectly capable of doing it himself.
For years you've been annoying this forum (under different names)
How about you just go forth and multiply?

I find it incredibly hilarious that anyone would be annoyed by anything on the internet let alone a forum for anonymous posters. I suppose that's why they say the worst thing that happened to society in the last 30 years was because boomers got access to social media.

Anyway as I say, let me know if you want instructions on how to use the foe feature to put posters on ignore, it's really good for your generation and the "cancel culture".

Wanker

Hilarious

[CQ SAINT]

Inventing different ways to say it doesn't change that you keep posting the same thing - you don't like Lyon as our coach.

I apologise for boring you.

I don't care about his personality. I just care about his ability to coach.

I do like some of his qualities. I think that if he delegates and has a strong support crew we will have success.

I think there's room for improvement. I think he's a better coach and a different coach to his first time around. His time at Fremantle taught him a lot and they were in rebuild in 2017/2018, so that experience will help him with our younger players.

There is a difference between not rating some one as highly as others, with not liking someone.

Most of us were here in 2009. The constant revisionist analysis, just tells me your are highlighting your concerns in case history repeats itself. Have you got anything new?
Did you expect to play finals this year, before we sacked Ratten?

Its 2023, Freo are still rebuilding.

[Teflon]

Scollop,
You need to get over the fact that Lyon is now our coach.
Your continual negativity about him has become tiresome (to me at least).
Thread after thread being spammed by you with negative posts about Lyon.

In this respect you're as bad as Vortex, (Saintsational's current spammer).

I get it - you don't like Lyon as our coach.
It's a view shared by some others but none seem as determined to keep posting about it as you.

I don't need to read about it constantly - you've made your point repeatedly.
It's now boring and becoming annoying to me (and I'm assuming others)
Inventing different ways to say it doesn't change that you keep posting the same thing - you don't like Lyon as our coach.

You're entitled to your view, as is everybody else on here.
BUT
your continued disparaging of anything/everything he does/doesn't do is wearing thin.

You are way to pragmatic for this site Magic.
Well said.