Ross Lyon and development of youth. The evidence mounts with new data.

[bobmurray]

Let's see how "chubby" Lyon goes the 2nd time around, let's hope he doesn't stack the list with role players that aren't quite up to it, let's hope the club has told him development is as important as winning, or as near as.

Just to reassure you Bob, and like me you've been on this journey for a long time, I despised Ross Lyon as much as anyone, I've given my reasons for this on other threads.

But I totally agree that the club had to grasp the nettle and make the brutal decision that Brett Ratten, who I always considered a reasonably good coach, lacked all of the criteria to lead the team to a GF. When that was clarified as the reasons for Ratten's dismissal last week I realised that Ross Lyon does indeed have a strong record lifting teams to the top of the ladder, and so had to swallow all of my grievances and support his Second Coming, if that is decided.

The reason why I believe Ross Lyon will be a much better coach this time is that he will have looked back on his journey and make any necessary adjustments. The final issue for my positive rationale is that Ross Lyon will have to answer to Geoff Walsh, the new Football Supremo, which means the off-field setup will be far more collegial, with everyone united to strive for success!

I hope what you posted is how it turns out, might set us on the path to break the drought.

[Scollop]

Let's not try and rewrite history based on a kid from Fremantle's view on Ross.

Geezus Bob
Listen to the collective (past saints and Freo players) and keep an open mind ffs
Let’s not just accept the endless media narrative we are fed like sheep and not be afraid to form an objective view when evidence is presented
Brayshaw doesn’t have to say ,Serong is another Lyon brought on
Robert Eddy (who Lyon eventually culled) also came out this week acknowledging he has the ability to get the best out of his players.
See this the thing we all forget …
Lyons 09/10 list was not as deep as what Thomas had - he didn’t have Harvey, Hudgton, Gehrig, Hamill, Powell, Peckett et al in their prime
His top end was great no doubt - the bottom end was moneyball types ……and he dragged the best from them
I see our list right now as lacking stars …we need a coach who can lift the DMacs, Woods, Billings, Clarke, Coffield etc THATS where our lift will come from and we’ve got the guy to put in place standards to get that
Anyway, strap in and get a bit of excitement round you old boy..

Let's ignore how Ross left both the Saints and Freo lists when he moved on, regardless if it was his choice, or not. Both clubs are still in recovery. Ross has his positives for sure but his negatives are what others are left with.

Let’s ignore facts shall we??
09/10 - Saints were cooked by 11 Riewoldt and players said it themselves
Recruiting during that period was poor - that’s not all Lyons fault just like under Ratten was Gags primary role not Rattens ….the clubs list didn’t have a lot coming through but it had also been up for sone time with crap recruiting and development resources in place

Freo - he took an ok list imo to the pinnacle
Whilst his last few years werent great he had sides plagued by injury - missing key players like often
He actually brought Brayshaw and Serong and others through (again feel free to ignore Brayshaw comments how Lyon set his football career on the right path)
Lyons not perfect or blameless but gee he cops it from lazy Herald Sun opinions from people hell bent on making him pay for how he left
St Kilda were also ran incompetently during this period….often overlooked

Exactly. 2011 team was cooked and I would argue the real damage was done to that list when watters started disrespecting them and pelican started getting rid of them

"End of an Era"

The messiah had spoken.

Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Let's ignore the fact that most of our stars were still playing for many more years after Lyon departed. So the facts are that Robert Eddie and Steve Baker and Steven King and Michael Gardiner retired....

...while Roo, Lenny, Kosi, Dal Santo, BJ, J Blake, Chips, Milney, Gram and our other stars went on to play brilliant footy and the bulk of the team was still intact

Our players earnt All Australian honours and won best and fairests 2 or 3 or 4 years after Ross left St Kilda. That is fact!!

...but hey ...you go on believing the lies if you want. I couldn't give a turd that he left and got another job, but I do care about the words the prick spoke about in 2011 and the effect of saying what he said to his players. You have to remember the trust that his players had in the man (jfc...they still do!!)

Lyon tainted the list by basically telling them outright that they were 'washed up'. The snake oil salesman caused psychological damage when he spoke those words on several occasions through out 2011 before he left St Kilda. The gullible fans, media and his own players all believed him

[spert]

I remember an interview over on WA radio after Lyon got sacked, where someone from the Freo club said the players were pretty unhappy with how RL's "rebuild" and general attitude was starting to lose the players- his inability to get back into finals was being taken out on the playing group. He is coming to the Saints for the money only, so I hope at least he puts the same effort in as the did in that 2009 era, and not sit back and live off his reputation.

[Teflon]

I remember an interview over on WA radio after Lyon got sacked, where someone from the Freo club said the players were pretty unhappy with how RL's "rebuild" and general attitude was starting to lose the players- his inability to get back into finals was being taken out on the playing group. He is coming to the Saints for the money only, so I hope at least he puts the same effort in as the did in that 2009 era, and not sit back and live off his reputation.

Why not take the word of Freo supporters like this guy yesterday on BF - balanced and sensible


***************

I come in peace - please remove if not appropriate. Really like this move for the Saints, will tighten you up, clear the dead-wood (or make it useful), and you've already addressed one of his biggest problems with Max King.

To give a Freo perspective on RTB generally and RTB's final years at Freo:
1) He commited to a full rebuild from mid 2016 - played youth at the detriment of results from that point.
2) Player development; Fyfe, Neale, Brayshaw, heck even Pav credit him with being a huge positive influence on their careers. Steele is going to love him.
3) By 2019 he had us up and about playing some attractive sligshot footy (see the GWS game at Manuka for it in full flight), before we lost half the team and our entire spine to injury. Reckon we make finals that year if team stays fit.
4) The off the field stuff was s**t, but I guess people make mistakes and hopefully he's grown from it.

His biggest issue was sustainability - by all accounts the players were miserable as sin when we were flying in 2015, and his style seemed to have us injured a lot (though that could've just been Weber being s**t).

Best candidate by a mile. Gutsy, ruthless move by you guys (ironically not dissimilar to Ross's move to Freo). Fix King's accuracy and he'll have you on the right track soon enough. Plus your pressers willbe fun again.

[Teflon]

Let's not try and rewrite history based on a kid from Fremantle's view on Ross.

Geezus Bob
Listen to the collective (past saints and Freo players) and keep an open mind ffs
Let’s not just accept the endless media narrative we are fed like sheep and not be afraid to form an objective view when evidence is presented
Brayshaw doesn’t have to say ,Serong is another Lyon brought on
Robert Eddy (who Lyon eventually culled) also came out this week acknowledging he has the ability to get the best out of his players.
See this the thing we all forget …
Lyons 09/10 list was not as deep as what Thomas had - he didn’t have Harvey, Hudgton, Gehrig, Hamill, Powell, Peckett et al in their prime
His top end was great no doubt - the bottom end was moneyball types ……and he dragged the best from them
I see our list right now as lacking stars …we need a coach who can lift the DMacs, Woods, Billings, Clarke, Coffield etc THATS where our lift will come from and we’ve got the guy to put in place standards to get that
Anyway, strap in and get a bit of excitement round you old boy..

Let's ignore how Ross left both the Saints and Freo lists when he moved on, regardless if it was his choice, or not. Both clubs are still in recovery. Ross has his positives for sure but his negatives are what others are left with.

Let’s ignore facts shall we??
09/10 - Saints were cooked by 11 Riewoldt and players said it themselves
Recruiting during that period was poor - that’s not all Lyons fault just like under Ratten was Gags primary role not Rattens ….the clubs list didn’t have a lot coming through but it had also been up for sone time with crap recruiting and development resources in place

Freo - he took an ok list imo to the pinnacle
Whilst his last few years werent great he had sides plagued by injury - missing key players like often
He actually brought Brayshaw and Serong and others through (again feel free to ignore Brayshaw comments how Lyon set his football career on the right path)
Lyons not perfect or blameless but gee he cops it from lazy Herald Sun opinions from people hell bent on making him pay for how he left
St Kilda were also ran incompetently during this period….often overlooked

Exactly. 2011 team was cooked and I would argue the real damage was done to that list when watters started disrespecting them and pelican started getting rid of them

"End of an Era"

The messiah had spoken.

Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Let's ignore the fact that most of our stars were still playing for many more years after Lyon departed. So the facts are that Robert Eddie and Steve Baker and Steven King and Michael Gardiner retired....

...while Roo, Lenny, Kosi, Dal Santo, BJ, J Blake, Chips, Milney, Gram and our other stars went on to play brilliant footy and the bulk of the team was still intact

Our players earnt All Australian honours and won best and fairests 2 or 3 or 4 years after Ross left St Kilda. That is fact!!

...but hey ...you go on believing the lies if you want. I couldn't give a turd that he left and got another job, but I do care about the words the prick spoke about in 2011 and the effect of saying what he said to his players. You have to remember the trust that his players had in the man (jfc...they still do!!)

Lyon tainted the list by basically telling them outright that they were 'washed up'. The snake oil salesman caused psychological damage when he spoke those words on several occasions through out 2011 before he left St Kilda. The gullible fans, media and his own players all believed him

The PLAYERS acknowledged after 2010 they struggled with motivation to go again you muppet
That is FACT

[Scollop]

Let's not try and rewrite history based on a kid from Fremantle's view on Ross.

Geezus Bob
Listen to the collective (past saints and Freo players) and keep an open mind ffs
Let’s not just accept the endless media narrative we are fed like sheep and not be afraid to form an objective view when evidence is presented
Brayshaw doesn’t have to say ,Serong is another Lyon brought on
Robert Eddy (who Lyon eventually culled) also came out this week acknowledging he has the ability to get the best out of his players.
See this the thing we all forget …
Lyons 09/10 list was not as deep as what Thomas had - he didn’t have Harvey, Hudgton, Gehrig, Hamill, Powell, Peckett et al in their prime
His top end was great no doubt - the bottom end was moneyball types ……and he dragged the best from them
I see our list right now as lacking stars …we need a coach who can lift the DMacs, Woods, Billings, Clarke, Coffield etc THATS where our lift will come from and we’ve got the guy to put in place standards to get that
Anyway, strap in and get a bit of excitement round you old boy..

Let's ignore how Ross left both the Saints and Freo lists when he moved on, regardless if it was his choice, or not. Both clubs are still in recovery. Ross has his positives for sure but his negatives are what others are left with.

Let’s ignore facts shall we??
09/10 - Saints were cooked by 11 Riewoldt and players said it themselves
Recruiting during that period was poor - that’s not all Lyons fault just like under Ratten was Gags primary role not Rattens ….the clubs list didn’t have a lot coming through but it had also been up for sone time with crap recruiting and development resources in place

Freo - he took an ok list imo to the pinnacle
Whilst his last few years werent great he had sides plagued by injury - missing key players like often
He actually brought Brayshaw and Serong and others through (again feel free to ignore Brayshaw comments how Lyon set his football career on the right path)
Lyons not perfect or blameless but gee he cops it from lazy Herald Sun opinions from people hell bent on making him pay for how he left
St Kilda were also ran incompetently during this period….often overlooked

Exactly. 2011 team was cooked and I would argue the real damage was done to that list when watters started disrespecting them and pelican started getting rid of them

"End of an Era"

The messiah had spoken.

Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Let's ignore the fact that most of our stars were still playing for many more years after Lyon departed. So the facts are that Robert Eddie and Steve Baker and Steven King and Michael Gardiner retired....

...while Roo, Lenny, Kosi, Dal Santo, BJ, J Blake, Chips, Milney, Gram and our other stars went on to play brilliant footy and the bulk of the team was still intact

Our players earnt All Australian honours and won best and fairests 2 or 3 or 4 years after Ross left St Kilda. That is fact!!

...but hey ...you go on believing the lies if you want. I couldn't give a turd that he left and got another job, but I do care about the words the prick spoke about in 2011 and the effect of saying what he said to his players. You have to remember the trust that his players had in the man (jfc...they still do!!)

Lyon tainted the list by basically telling them outright that they were 'washed up'. The snake oil salesman caused psychological damage when he spoke those words on several occasions through out 2011 before he left St Kilda. The gullible fans, media and his own players all believed him

The PLAYERS acknowledged after 2010 they struggled with motivation to go again you muppet
That is FACT

Wow



Revelation



Teffers…do you realise what you just wrote and admitted to?



Remind me who was the coach in 2011 again? That’s ok! He’s still a brilliant coach

It’s hilarious that the hypocrites who claimed Ratten couldn’t motivate this group think it’s ok for Lyon NOT to be able to motivate his players in 2011…….

And ….what a turd of a man!! Telling them their time is up, and that he may need to rebuild (he said that in a press conference after a loss in May 2011). And telling them it’s the ‘end of an era’ even half way through that year.


Who is the Muppet? Me or you and every other dh who gobbled up the Lyonspeak horseshit

[spert]

I remember an interview over on WA radio after Lyon got sacked, where someone from the Freo club said the players were pretty unhappy with how RL's "rebuild" and general attitude was starting to lose the players- his inability to get back into finals was being taken out on the playing group. He is coming to the Saints for the money only, so I hope at least he puts the same effort in as the did in that 2009 era, and not sit back and live off his reputation.

Why not take the word of Freo supporters like this guy yesterday on BF - balanced and sensible


***************

I come in peace - please remove if not appropriate. Really like this move for the Saints, will tighten you up, clear the dead-wood (or make it useful), and you've already addressed one of his biggest problems with Max King.

To give a Freo perspective on RTB generally and RTB's final years at Freo:
1) He commited to a full rebuild from mid 2016 - played youth at the detriment of results from that point.
2) Player development; Fyfe, Neale, Brayshaw, heck even Pav credit him with being a huge positive influence on their careers. Steele is going to love him.
3) By 2019 he had us up and about playing some attractive sligshot footy (see the GWS game at Manuka for it in full flight), before we lost half the team and our entire spine to injury. Reckon we make finals that year if team stays fit.
4) The off the field stuff was s**t, but I guess people make mistakes and hopefully he's grown from it.

His biggest issue was sustainability - by all accounts the players were miserable as sin when we were flying in 2015, and his style seemed to have us injured a lot (though that could've just been Weber being s**t).

Best candidate by a mile. Gutsy, ruthless move by you guys (ironically not dissimilar to Ross's move to Freo). Fix King's accuracy and he'll have you on the right track soon enough. Plus your pressers willbe fun again.

This is Lyon's retirement gig- big money, no effort required.

[Scollop]

It’s like the conman who goes to the old pensioner and tells her he’s a qualified plumber and he’ll clean her gutters and paint her roof for $20 K. He’d be silly not come back and try and scam the old granny again after 3 years time?

Same with a burglar who robs a shop or robs a house…they usually go back for seconds if the owners are dumb enough to let them

[sendmehomehappy]

That is a big slur, by implication, on the character and motivation of this man, Spert and Scollop. You guys might want to be careful and reflect on your own faults before you project crap like this out on others.

[saynta]

That is a big slur, by implication, on the character and motivation of this man, Spert and Scollop. You guys might want to be careful and reflect on your own faults before you project crap like this out on others.

Slur or a bit of truth telling for once?

[Scollop]

That is a big slur, by implication, on the character and motivation of this man, Spert and Scollop. You guys might want to be careful and reflect on your own faults before you project crap like this out on others.

Yeah sorry, I forgot he’s going to donate half his salary to the Saints Football club to delete our debt and he’s going to get a Saints number plate with Vicroads. He’ll also be volunteering on weekends and manning the bbq in the morning and Saints shop in the afternoon

[spert]

That is a big slur, by implication, on the character and motivation of this man, Spert and Scollop. You guys might want to be careful and reflect on your own faults before you project crap like this out on others.

I speak from years of working in business, management etc.. seen things like this before when companies try and fall back on what worked for them in the past, only to come horribly unstuck. I have a clear conscience, and I would suggest some of the Saints supporters on this forum, take off their "rose coloured glasses" and get a dose of reality.

[Sanctorum]

All of the pro and anti Lyon posters on this forum indicates that the return of Ross Lyon to Moorabbin, as confirmed this morning, will eventually make one side or the other look very silly.

Either way, as one who despised Ross Lyon, I have to admit that if I was on the board of St Kilda FC, with the team once again failing to play finals, I would be wanting to know beyond any doubt that Brett Ratten was capable of guiding his team to the top of the competition ladder, as that surely is what is every director's fundamental responsibility. For too long the board has been ineffectual on the primary objective of pursuing a second premiership.

That Andrew Bassat has been prepared to be brutally honest about the appraisal of the status quo, and conclude in conjunction with the external review that the team required a vastly different style of leadership and coaching, and that Ratten was not considered capable of achieving this, I am positive that every director would have agreed with the subsequent decisions to bring in Geoff Walsh and approach Ross Lyon to carry out the direction the board has set for future success.

In supporting this 100% I know that I may well look silly, and to be honest, as a dyed in the wool St Kilda fan that's happened quite a bit over the years

[Beno88]

35 players were drafted to St Kilda via the National Draft or Rookie Draft in Ross Lyon's time at the Saints.

Only 9 went on to play over 50 games. Armitage, Jones, Geary, Steven, McEvoy, Lynch, Stanley, Hutchings and Cripps (6 of those ended up at other clubs, 4 of which ended up premiership players).

Since then, we've drafted 68 players. 18 have gone on to play over 50 games. 13 remain at the club.

Strike rate is almost identical, but the current retention is far better.

[Teflon]

That is a big slur, by implication, on the character and motivation of this man, Spert and Scollop. You guys might want to be careful and reflect on your own faults before you project crap like this out on others.

I speak from years of working in business, management etc.. seen things like this before when companies try and fall back on what worked for them in the past, only to come horribly unstuck. I have a clear conscience, and I would suggest some of the Saints supporters on this forum, take off their "rose coloured glasses" and get a dose of reality.

Geezus cause it’s just the sane as corporate world
If that’s your best “business management” advice
Jog on..

[Teflon]

It’s like the conman who goes to the old pensioner and tells her he’s a qualified plumber and he’ll clean her gutters and paint her roof for $20 K. He’d be silly not come back and try and scam the old granny again after 3 years time?

Same with a burglar who robs a shop or robs a house…they usually go back for seconds if the owners are dumb enough to let them

Honestly what a Shyte post ….up there with your other dribble but anyhoo who cares cause only got 2 words for you and your numpty bum chums….

“He’s Back!”

[Scollop]

This whole saga reminds me of Essendon... and when they were so excited about their golden boy James Hird replacing Matty Knights

...James as senior coach and Bomber Thompson (also another favoured son) returning to the club...The Dream Team they called it

We just need Shane Charters, Steven Dank and Dr. Ageless for our very own Dream Team to be complete at St Kilda

...and fully backed by BJ Goddard who also fully endorsed Hird and Thompson


https://www.afl.com.au/news/443691/brin ... ys-goddard

[Yorkeys]

This whole saga reminds me of Essendon... and when they were so excited about their golden boy James Hird replacing Matty Knights

...James as senior coach and Bomber Thompson (also another favoured son) returning to the club...The Dream Team they called it

We just need Shane Charters, Steven Dank and Dr. Ageless for our very own Dream Team to be complete at St Kilda

...and fully backed by BJ Goddard who also fully endorsed Hird and Thompson


https://www.afl.com.au/news/443691/brin ... ys-goddard

To be argumentative,
Ross never played for the Saints; Hird was a first time coach, Hird was (is?) mentally unwell; Thompson had the ethics of a biker drug addict; Dank and Co were (are?) charlatans without ethical standards; Essendon like a few larger clubs felt entitled to cheat wherever it could; Essendon players were treated with contempt with no consideration for their health. Unlike the culture at our Club. Nor* are Essendon reinstating Sheedy, are they? Any attempt at comparisons seems ridiculous. But you see the situations as comparable? Uhmmm.

Footnote
Did BJ actually endorse what Hird, Thompson and Dank were up to. I can't remember that but he might have for the right price, I suppose.

* the gratuitous Nor is for Loris.

[spert]

That is a big slur, by implication, on the character and motivation of this man, Spert and Scollop. You guys might want to be careful and reflect on your own faults before you project crap like this out on others.

I speak from years of working in business, management etc.. seen things like this before when companies try and fall back on what worked for them in the past, only to come horribly unstuck. I have a clear conscience, and I would suggest some of the Saints supporters on this forum, take off their "rose coloured glasses" and get a dose of reality.

Geezus cause it’s just the sane as corporate world
If that’s your best “business management” advice
Jog on..

Hard to work out what you're trying to say