Autopsy Thread: Saints v Freo

[flack]

Big improvement in effort today but I still think Ratts has told the group we're not ready to compete for a flag as too many seem to be going through the motions. We have six players streaming forward into an open paddock and because someone isn't confident they hold the game up by walking back to take a shot, it loses all momentum and you can see the forwards screaming for it. We're not playing as a team with a plan, it's more like a group of footballers testing their skills out. Just tell them they should be trying to win a flag for the fans and see if morale improves.

[shanegrambeau]

Just saw the game…
On the train…

We had the magic ummmphh factor!

Bravo

In my narrow and damaged mind, Mr McKenzie just forced his way in.

Well done Macca!

Kingy taking those grabs…yyyeeeeesss!

So respectful of the selection honchos for leaving Higgins in and not listening to Rooey!

1 - Football brains at St Kilda
0- reactive peanuts in media

NWM was a passenger, but luckily we got away with it, and it’s a fantastic experience and result.. What skills!!!

Oh saints! I am buying an away jumper ..

[WellardSaint]

Being at the game is a massive diff to watching it on TV.

That last qtr was stressful, esp Dockers getting a goal gifted.
Siren went just in time.

Byrnes got much better as the game progressed.
Sincs really kept us in the game.

Skunk, Higgo, Crouch, need to nail those set shots

[Teflon]

Read this on bigfooty as to why Battle played so well….think it has merit….


And he was able to do that specifically because Doogs was out.

They can't both be the interception option all game so working out who goes and when is a medium-long term goal for the coaches.

I'll keep saying it though, we structure up better with Joyce at FB shutting down the most dangerous tall forward, Howard at CHB driving us back inside our own 50 & Battle as the 3rd tall cutting off deep entries.

Paton plays on the most dangerous small. Webster and Wilkie match up on the other smalls/mid size options and Since/Hill sweep back from the wing to be the distributor as needed.

Joyce should play every week. He won't though. Will be straight out for Howard and I'll bang my head on the table.

[Teflon]

I do want to get Connolly attacking kicking into that side…..he had only 20 at sandy but from reports foot skills a cut above all else
Geary turnover merchant I read…..please only play in case of pandemic issues

[saintkev]

The game started with lots of fierce contests and there were very good signs early

We came to play and congratulations to the coaching staff on the preparation

Ratts gave them a huge spray at quarter time and we dominated that second quarter with 16 inside 50’s.

Apart from our messy entries and some inaccurate kicking for goal, we looked the better team for most of the day.

Loved their composure to hold up play and control the ball and take minutes off the clock once we had a handy lead

The boys in the backline defended well and I reckon they were the major contributors setting us up for the win.

The Ratten doubters will shut their traps for another week or two

Leinert was good value. He has plenty of upside. For a leader, Howard’s lip-dropping, mouthing off at teammates and poor body language don’t set an inspiring example.

[Devilhead]

Read this on bigfooty as to why Battle played so well….think it has merit….


And he was able to do that specifically because Doogs was out.

They can't both be the interception option all game so working out who goes and when is a medium-long term goal for the coaches.

I'll keep saying it though, we structure up better with Joyce at FB shutting down the most dangerous tall forward, Howard at CHB driving us back inside our own 50 & Battle as the 3rd tall cutting off deep entries.

Paton plays on the most dangerous small. Webster and Wilkie match up on the other smalls/mid size options and Since/Hill sweep back from the wing to be the distributor as needed.

Joyce should play every week. He won't though. Will be straight out for Howard and I'll bang my head on the table.

I don't mind this ..... Give Joyce a good go at FB and move Howard out to CHB

Joyce can only get better with more AFL time and he is a big strong ox

[Harvey To Hayes]

Big improvement in effort today but I still think Ratts has told the group we're not ready to compete for a flag as too many seem to be going through the motions. We have six players streaming forward into an open paddock and because someone isn't confident they hold the game up by walking back to take a shot, it loses all momentum and you can see the forwards screaming for it. We're not playing as a team with a plan, it's more like a group of footballers testing their skills out. Just tell them they should be trying to win a flag for the fans and see if morale improves.

Yep agree 100% Ratts definitely pulled the group together at some point and told them that they're not ready to compete for the flag you could see it in their eyes, well picked up...

[shanegrambeau]

I agree with Teflon and others about Joyce...Robocop.

I agree with Scollop about Doogs and mouth dropping, but I would not even consider dropping Doogs for Robocop, now.

But I am a Joyce fanboy, for now.

I don't know what the fuss is about Battle, but I am believing you and Jakey on SaintsTV, who assures me Battle was absolutely mint today.

I would still play Highmore and Sharman ahead of Wood.

I've never been a big McKenzie or Webster fan, but I loved them tonight.

Bloody good Saints!.

[Scollop]

I agree with Teflon and others about Joyce...Robocop.

I agree with Scollop about Doogs and mouth dropping, but I would not even consider dropping Doogs for Robocop, now.

But I am a Joyce fanboy, for now.

I don't know what the fuss is about Battle, but I am believing you and Jakey on SaintsTV, who assures me Battle was absolutely mint today.

I would still play Highmore and Sharman ahead of Wood.

I've never been a big McKenzie or Webster fan, but I loved them tonight.

Bloody good Saints!.

Ahhhhh...

Sorry, but I didn't mention "Doogs and mouth dropping" ? that was saintkev

I agree with him by the way. Our leaders have to be role models and we can't have excuses and scapegoating of younger players

I also don't think we need a captain who is going to whinge and complain about umpires or the weather or the roof open or ....you know what I mean

[shanegrambeau]

I agree with Teflon and others about Joyce...Robocop.

I agree with Scollop about Doogs and mouth dropping, but I would not even consider dropping Doogs for Robocop, now.

But I am a Joyce fanboy, for now.

I don't know what the fuss is about Battle, but I am believing you and Jakey on SaintsTV, who assures me Battle was absolutely mint today.

I would still play Highmore and Sharman ahead of Wood.

I've never been a big McKenzie or Webster fan, but I loved them tonight.

Bloody good Saints!.

Ahhhhh...

Sorry, but I didn't mention "Doogs and mouth dropping" ? that was saintkev

I agree with him by the way. Our leaders have to be role models and we can't have excuses and scapegoating of younger players

I also don't think we need a captain who is going to whinge and complain about umpires or the weather or the roof open or ....you know what I mean

Ah..OK..my bad.

[WellardSaint]

I just hope the team doesn't take the win as confirmation that they're doing something right.
Such as Higgins and Butler thinking that their 'party tricks' will snag goals and they'll be ok.
We had 16 F50 entries in that third qtr, I think.

They need to work damn hard on a lot of things- a lot of mistakes were made, mistakes that against a top 6 team would open the floodgates.
Like what happened last year.

We just fell over the line, Steven Bradbury style, despite the best efforts of the maggots.

Park that win, and bloody work on accuracy, picking the right option (such as Hayes not handballing to Lienert)

[Waltzing St Kilda]

As an aside, are we really going to wear that away guernsey against the Swans and GCS?

[bigcarl]

I’ll take a win in Perth anytime. An impressive and gutsy performance with a list that includes more than a few unfashionable scrubbers … the ultimate moneyball team.

Surprisingly the umpiring wasn’t as bad as it has been on previous trips west. Instead of awful, it was merely bad … marred by some late potential match-deciding calls that weren’t there.

DMac was magnificent. He has copped a bit of flak over the years, but is emerging as a cult hero. Quick and tough like Webster. He and Battle were key in repelling Fremantle with the match on the line in the last.

Impressed with NWM. He looks to have poise and class that you wouldn’t expect to see in a debutant.

King was exceptional in the third quarter. I think he needs a minder, though. He cops some pretty ordinary treatment that shouldn’t be tolerated by teammates.

Also full credit to Higgins coming back from a game in which nothing went right.

[Moods]

Loved their composure to hold up play and control the ball and take minutes off the clock once we had a handy lead


The Ratten doubters will shut their traps for another week or two

Couldn't disagree more. We played another bottom 8 side yesterday. who were missing key players in Mundy and Fyfe. Our inability to create run and speed on the ball will kill us. This chip chip chippity chip game is outdated and barely played by anyone. Will never win finals as Cats and Eagles have proven in recent years. Once we started playing in that fashion Freo started getting back into the game and I feel gave them confidence in the last quarter. We had a chance to put our foot on their throat and gain real confidence but instead tried to protect a lead basically a quarter out from the finish.

I'm certainly not shutting my mouth about Ratten after that performance. We're not going to lose every week and the boys had a crack, but there was always lurking in the background the same old Saints. s*** goal kicking, slow ball movement, a ridiculous insistence to give the ball to Brad Hill who occasionally sets things up, but also almost as often stuffs things up.

[Jacks Back]

Big improvement in effort today but I still think Ratts has told the group we're not ready to compete for a flag as too many seem to be going through the motions. We have six players streaming forward into an open paddock and because someone isn't confident they hold the game up by walking back to take a shot, it loses all momentum and you can see the forwards screaming for it. We're not playing as a team with a plan, it's more like a group of footballers testing their skills out. Just tell them they should be trying to win a flag for the fans and see if morale improves.

Yep agree 100% Ratts definitely pulled the group together at some point and told them that they're not ready to compete for the flag you could see it in their eyes, well picked up...

I'm not sure about all that but, if he has, what about reverse psychology?

[SaintDippa]

Moods saved me knocking out 200 words.

[The Fireman]

King was better in the second half simply because the delivery improved

[Vortex]

Following on from Moods post, you can see what they are trying to achieve with chipping around and going backwards or sideways. They are obviously trying to stick to the defensive side of the game plan which absolutely has to be a club in the bag but I think they misread the play yesterday and tried to slow the game down when really the game and Freo were inviting them to keep the tempo up and keep attacking especially in the 4th. They just misread what was on offer.

[Ghost Like]

I like alot of what's been written, may not agree with it all but food for thought. My 2 cents worth is in relation to Butler.

I thought he was good yesterday. 10 possessions, 6 tackles and 1 goal. If Butler doesn't play as a 2nd small forward, Higgins gets sat on, he does not have a partner in crime buzzing around the forward contests.

5 goals between the two smalls in a match we found goals hard to get is a great return. If Butler kicks 1 to 2 a game and lays 4 to 6 tacklees, he ends the home & away with 30+ goals & over 100 forward 50 tackles for the year.

The Higgins & Butler Band is good viewing when on. A vital part of our forward line's structure and any successes.

[Moods]

Big improvement in effort today but I still think Ratts has told the group we're not ready to compete for a flag as too many seem to be going through the motions. We have six players streaming forward into an open paddock and because someone isn't confident they hold the game up by walking back to take a shot, it loses all momentum and you can see the forwards screaming for it. We're not playing as a team with a plan, it's more like a group of footballers testing their skills out. Just tell them they should be trying to win a flag for the fans and see if morale improves.

Yep agree 100% Ratts definitely pulled the group together at some point and told them that they're not ready to compete for the flag you could see it in their eyes, well picked up...

I'm not sure about all that but, if he has, what about reverse psychology?

Lol I think you may have missed the sarcasm

[Impatient Sainter]

The game started with lots of fierce contests and there were very good signs early

We came to play and congratulations to the coaching staff on the preparation

Ratts gave them a huge spray at quarter time and we dominated that second quarter with 16 inside 50’s.

Apart from our messy entries and some inaccurate kicking for goal, we looked the better team for most of the day.

Loved their composure to hold up play and control the ball and take minutes off the clock once we had a handy lead

The boys in the backline defended well and I reckon they were the major contributors setting us up for the win.

The Ratten doubters will shut their traps for another week or two

Leinert was good value. He has plenty of upside. For a leader, Howard’s lip-dropping, mouthing off at teammates and poor body language don’t set an inspiring example.

Lienert got plenty of it, he just needs to look for other options rather than just banging it out of defence. Freo had set up and it just came back in on a different angle. I shook my head when he was standing between the point & goal post when Lobb kicked that head high snap goal. Surely he hasnt been told to position himself there?

[st.byron]

Loved their composure to hold up play and control the ball and take minutes off the clock once we had a handy lead


The Ratten doubters will shut their traps for another week or two

Couldn't disagree more. We played another bottom 8 side yesterday. who were missing key players in Mundy and Fyfe. Our inability to create run and speed on the ball will kill us. This chip chip chippity chip game is outdated and barely played by anyone. Will never win finals as Cats and Eagles have proven in recent years. Once we started playing in that fashion Freo started getting back into the game and I feel gave them confidence in the last quarter. We had a chance to put our foot on their throat and gain real confidence but instead tried to protect a lead basically a quarter out from the finish.

I'm certainly not shutting my mouth about Ratten after that performance. We're not going to lose every week and the boys had a crack, but there was always lurking in the background the same old Saints. s*** goal kicking, slow ball movement, a ridiculous insistence to give the ball to Brad Hill who occasionally sets things up, but also almost as often stuffs things up.

Pretty much agree with all of this ( I think Hill was good). But yep chip chip chip invited Freo back into the game. Ratts has lost me so I'm not going to say much positive about him and the way we play at the mo.
We only played one good attacking quarter. Sterling defensive effort in the last but 2.7 at half time with F50 entry dominance and 65 points for a whole match aren't going to win many games.
And ......our 3rd qtr burst started after Darcy went off and we began to dominate clearances. It highlighted just how important a winning ruckman is. RoMa is an excellent player but not a dominant ruckman. We need another quality ruckman.
A win in the west - great - but I'm unconvinced we're going anywhere near genuine contention with Ratten.

[repta]

I think we were lucky in the end.

We went into our shell with over 10 minutes left on the clock and up by less than 3 goals.
If Freemantle were a better side we would have been run over. The side definitely needed the win. The confidence appears to be very low at the moment. It shows with the kicking for goal (30m out directly in front and not make the distance whilst also being inaccurate .. Couch !!! ouch!!).

Good start by the Wang-Mil

Gresham will take time to get back into it after a big break.
King is still going missing for long periods.

Butler / Higgins are still struggling to get a rhythm together (eg one will play a good game but not the other).
Hayes looks like an AFL player
Mackenzie is finally looking like he might be able to play

Hill likes the West.

Battle the star of the day

very well needed win. A win interstate (which is a rarity). A game they should have won, and managed it.

Hopefully they can use this win as a base for moving forward

[st.byron]

I think we were lucky in the end.

We went into our shell with over 10 minutes left on the clock and up by less than 3 goals.
If Freemantle were a better side we would have been run over. The side definitely needed the win. The confidence appears to be very low at the moment. It shows with the kicking for goal (30m out directly in front and not make the distance whilst also being inaccurate .. Couch !!! ouch!!).

Good start by the Wang-Mil

Gresham will take time to get back into it after a big break.
King is still going missing for long periods.

Butler / Higgins are still struggling to get a rhythm together (eg one will play a good game but not the other).
Hayes looks like an AFL player
Mackenzie is finally looking like he might be able to play

Hill likes the West.

Battle the star of the day

very well needed win. A win interstate (which is a rarity). A game they should have won, and managed it.

Hopefully they can use this win as a base for moving forward

And Freo had numerous missed shots on goal in the last. They could have easily pinched it.
Re Max King - he's still only 21. He could be a superstar, but he still looks like a colt at the mo. Another couple of years when he fills out more he could be a marking beast.