if only Grasham could kick

[B.M]

Played most of last season on a wing

Played the majority of 2020 as a tagger

Wingers average 20-25

Taggers the same

When he played majority inside he averaged 25+

As I said, some perspective

[saynta]

The hype on this kid is bizarre- he has a few tricks but no poise, cannot hit a target and constantly butchers the ball. Ross is bagged constantly but why does Gresh get a pass? He's had an entire season to assess his deficiencies and change his kicking style- yet we see the same floaters- whether a kick down field or a pass. Gives the marking players no chance. He rarely kicks to advantage a team mate. To suggest someone with his deficiencies will ever be more than a small forward and the answer to our midfield is puzzling.

I kept a close watch on Seb last night. Not once did he butcher a kick or miss his target with his handball.



He still copped the usual f****** disrespectful disgraceful comments though. :roll

Agree with your comments on gresh .

Are you blind? Seriously - stop it - you’re embarrassing yourself . Again.

3rd q … Ross burst 10m from the front of one of the very few centre sq stoppages we won and … shat himself and … proceeded to shin a 7m torp to a contest at CHF. I’m sure you thought he meant to vomit it forward but no one else did.

If that’s not butchering … I don’t know what is. But you keep being you.

The only thing I find embarrassing is all the f****** ill founded ignorant disgraceful comments made by clueless nuff nuffs about a 2 times club champion who has more talent in his left foot than they(read you ) have in their (your) entire body.

Maybe he stuffed up one time in 19 so shot him FFS

“Not once did he butcher a kick or miss his target with his handball”. So did he stuff up or not stuff up? I’m confused - I gave you empirical evidence and now you seemed to have recanted? As usual - your blind loyalty to an honest but severely limited (skill wise) player is embarrassing. And I (& others) are the clueless nuff nuffs? Pfft - best you have a spell.

For the record - Seb tries hard; is brave when it’s his turn, he’s honest but is so limited. It’s just bizarre how you continually want to die on the Seb Ross hill.

That the Pies went and spent pick 43 on the Dogs 5th best midfielder in Pat Lipinski yet, we thought it was a great idea to waddle around with Seb again says everything about where we’re at as a club. They actively tried to improve … we thought otherwise. Maybe you work in list management - I can’t see any other explanation.

In your brain Seb is the problem. But he played ok and some of his delivery was elite under pressure. You must stop blaming losses on your own cognitive bias. Owens, Kent & Byrnes were rubbish. Butler needs to start kicking goals again and not just pressure.

Gresh is a developing mid whom I think is on track if he can stay away from injuries.

It’s not cognitive bias at all - I noted Seb’s positives if you care to have read. My point was about old mate who is completely blind to any criticism of Ross. He said he didn’t stuff up. By any measure, he did.

You’re right - Byrnes, Owen and Kent were poor. As were many, many others. Gresham? Mmm - not sure as a mid. If we batted deeper there - he’d be an excellent small forward. We just happen to need him to be a mid because the rest of our mids are largely rubbish. And because we have no ruckman when Ryder is out.

But this isn’t about that is it? No. It’s about one person’s own cognitive bias .. despite clear evidence.

Every player makes mistakes every game. Cognitive bias comes in when you think the mistakes reaffirms your view that Ross is crap and the players who voted Ross into the leadership group, and the coaches who voted him best and fairest, and the external experts who voted him into the AA squad are all gullible and naive and don't understand football as well as you. Because you think the evidence is clear

Well said mate. It's usually the same nuff nuffs putting s*** on Seb. You know the ones who right from the start said he would never make it and should be traded to the drug cheats. Before he showed them up by winning two Best an d Fairest's which they subsequently tried to diminish.

Seb had a good game before he was crunched.

[SaintDippa]

Gresham is the poster child of our issues with player development (referring to kicking mechanics). How he's gone this long in our system and still has that kicking action beggars belief. But then again I could say the same for DMac, Battle, Kent, Geary, couple of others and I'll throw in Billings.

[B.M]

Was our player development worse or better 2006-2012?

[Winmar]

Gresham is the poster child of our issues with player development (referring to kicking mechanics). How he's gone this long in our system and still has that kicking action beggars belief. But then again I could say the same for DMac, Battle, Kent, Geary, couple of others and I'll throw in Billings.

It's quite odd. My mental image of his kicking action is that it starts from quite high drop; I'm not sure if that is accurate or not. I've always seen him as good at kicking through the sticks, but not great around the ground, a bit like Milne in that respect.

[SaintDippa]

To be clear, Gresh is one of my favourites. One of the few who takes the game on.

[Saintmatt]

The hype on this kid is bizarre- he has a few tricks but no poise, cannot hit a target and constantly butchers the ball. Ross is bagged constantly but why does Gresh get a pass? He's had an entire season to assess his deficiencies and change his kicking style- yet we see the same floaters- whether a kick down field or a pass. Gives the marking players no chance. He rarely kicks to advantage a team mate. To suggest someone with his deficiencies will ever be more than a small forward and the answer to our midfield is puzzling.

I kept a close watch on Seb last night. Not once did he butcher a kick or miss his target with his handball.



He still copped the usual f****** disrespectful disgraceful comments though. :roll

Agree with your comments on gresh .

Are you blind? Seriously - stop it - you’re embarrassing yourself . Again.

3rd q … Ross burst 10m from the front of one of the very few centre sq stoppages we won and … shat himself and … proceeded to shin a 7m torp to a contest at CHF. I’m sure you thought he meant to vomit it forward but no one else did.

If that’s not butchering … I don’t know what is. But you keep being you.

The only thing I find embarrassing is all the f****** ill founded ignorant disgraceful comments made by clueless nuff nuffs about a 2 times club champion who has more talent in his left foot than they(read you ) have in their (your) entire body.

Maybe he stuffed up one time in 19 so shot him FFS

“Not once did he butcher a kick or miss his target with his handball”. So did he stuff up or not stuff up? I’m confused - I gave you empirical evidence and now you seemed to have recanted? As usual - your blind loyalty to an honest but severely limited (skill wise) player is embarrassing. And I (& others) are the clueless nuff nuffs? Pfft - best you have a spell.

For the record - Seb tries hard; is brave when it’s his turn, he’s honest but is so limited. It’s just bizarre how you continually want to die on the Seb Ross hill.

That the Pies went and spent pick 43 on the Dogs 5th best midfielder in Pat Lipinski yet, we thought it was a great idea to waddle around with Seb again says everything about where we’re at as a club. They actively tried to improve … we thought otherwise. Maybe you work in list management - I can’t see any other explanation.

In your brain Seb is the problem. But he played ok and some of his delivery was elite under pressure. You must stop blaming losses on your own cognitive bias. Owens, Kent & Byrnes were rubbish. Butler needs to start kicking goals again and not just pressure.

Gresh is a developing mid whom I think is on track if he can stay away from injuries.

It’s not cognitive bias at all - I noted Seb’s positives if you care to have read. My point was about old mate who is completely blind to any criticism of Ross. He said he didn’t stuff up. By any measure, he did.

You’re right - Byrnes, Owen and Kent were poor. As were many, many others. Gresham? Mmm - not sure as a mid. If we batted deeper there - he’d be an excellent small forward. We just happen to need him to be a mid because the rest of our mids are largely rubbish. And because we have no ruckman when Ryder is out.

But this isn’t about that is it? No. It’s about one person’s own cognitive bias .. despite clear evidence.

Every player makes mistakes every game. Cognitive bias comes in when you think the mistakes reaffirms your view that Ross is crap and the players who voted Ross into the leadership group, and the coaches who voted him best and fairest, and the external experts who voted him into the AA squad are all gullible and naive and don't understand football as well as you. Because you think the evidence is clear

Well said mate. It's usually the same nuff nuffs putting s*** on Seb. You know the ones who right from the start said he would never make it and should be traded to the drug cheats. Before he showed them up by winning two Best an d Fairest's which they subsequently tried to diminish.

Seb had a good game before he was crunched.

I never said he didn’t have a good game. It was workmanlike and serviceable as usual. Hardly changed the course of the game when we were challenged like a Senior player would but - I don’t expect that anyway.

But this started as me calling out your utter blind BS on Seb not stuffing up a kick or handball all night. Which was clearly wrong.

You’re simply unable to admit you’re wrong in a weird Fonzie kind of way.

[skeptic]

The hype on this kid is bizarre- he has a few tricks but no poise, cannot hit a target and constantly butchers the ball. Ross is bagged constantly but why does Gresh get a pass? He's had an entire season to assess his deficiencies and change his kicking style- yet we see the same floaters- whether a kick down field or a pass. Gives the marking players no chance. He rarely kicks to advantage a team mate. To suggest someone with his deficiencies will ever be more than a small forward and the answer to our midfield is puzzling.

I kept a close watch on Seb last night. Not once did he butcher a kick or miss his target with his handball.



He still copped the usual f****** disrespectful disgraceful comments though. :roll

Agree with your comments on gresh .

Are you blind? Seriously - stop it - you’re embarrassing yourself . Again.

3rd q … Ross burst 10m from the front of one of the very few centre sq stoppages we won and … shat himself and … proceeded to shin a 7m torp to a contest at CHF. I’m sure you thought he meant to vomit it forward but no one else did.

If that’s not butchering … I don’t know what is. But you keep being you.

The only thing I find embarrassing is all the f****** ill founded ignorant disgraceful comments made by clueless nuff nuffs about a 2 times club champion who has more talent in his left foot than they(read you ) have in their (your) entire body.

Maybe he stuffed up one time in 19 so shot him FFS

“Not once did he butcher a kick or miss his target with his handball”. So did he stuff up or not stuff up? I’m confused - I gave you empirical evidence and now you seemed to have recanted? As usual - your blind loyalty to an honest but severely limited (skill wise) player is embarrassing. And I (& others) are the clueless nuff nuffs? Pfft - best you have a spell.

For the record - Seb tries hard; is brave when it’s his turn, he’s honest but is so limited. It’s just bizarre how you continually want to die on the Seb Ross hill.

That the Pies went and spent pick 43 on the Dogs 5th best midfielder in Pat Lipinski yet, we thought it was a great idea to waddle around with Seb again says everything about where we’re at as a club. They actively tried to improve … we thought otherwise. Maybe you work in list management - I can’t see any other explanation.

In your brain Seb is the problem. But he played ok and some of his delivery was elite under pressure. You must stop blaming losses on your own cognitive bias. Owens, Kent & Byrnes were rubbish. Butler needs to start kicking goals again and not just pressure.

Gresh is a developing mid whom I think is on track if he can stay away from injuries.

It’s not cognitive bias at all - I noted Seb’s positives if you care to have read. My point was about old mate who is completely blind to any criticism of Ross. He said he didn’t stuff up. By any measure, he did.

You’re right - Byrnes, Owen and Kent were poor. As were many, many others. Gresham? Mmm - not sure as a mid. If we batted deeper there - he’d be an excellent small forward. We just happen to need him to be a mid because the rest of our mids are largely rubbish. And because we have no ruckman when Ryder is out.

But this isn’t about that is it? No. It’s about one person’s own cognitive bias .. despite clear evidence.

Every player makes mistakes every game. Cognitive bias comes in when you think the mistakes reaffirms your view that Ross is crap and the players who voted Ross into the leadership group, and the coaches who voted him best and fairest, and the external experts who voted him into the AA squad are all gullible and naive and don't understand football as well as you. Because you think the evidence is clear

Well said mate. It's usually the same nuff nuffs putting s*** on Seb. You know the ones who right from the start said he would never make it and should be traded to the drug cheats. Before he showed them up by winning two Best an d Fairest's which they subsequently tried to diminish.

Seb had a good game before he was crunched.

I never said he didn’t have a good game. It was workmanlike and serviceable as usual. Hardly changed the course of the game when we were challenged like a Senior player would but - I don’t expect that anyway.

But this started as me calling out your utter blind BS on Seb not stuffing up a kick or handball all night. Which was clearly wrong.

You’re simply unable to admit you’re wrong in a weird Fonzie kind of way.

I think how these things work is that when the facts become indisputable… attempts to “subtly”distance oneself from the focus of intense denial start and blend in with the majority.

Did you notice last season how after one bad play in one game… Luke Dunstan was out and no longer a future Saints Captain… completely un-Saints like with a bad attitude only from then.
Now you’ll note that the spirited defences of Dean Kent has stopped from those that fought the good fight for years against the “not true supporters@ and the jabs are creeping in.

As far as Seb goes… the legwork to backdown started in the preseason following the intra club match. I read a bold declaration from someone here that he was no longer top 22 and had been overtaken by Bytel.
Gone a bit quiet on that front for now but we’ll see what the future brings.

As for Ross, he was alright. Not particularly standoutish and certainly didn’t lead the way but was solid for most of the night.

[Devilhead]

Gresham when under pressure just looks to put his boot through ball and kick it as far as he can

There doesn't seem to be any poise to look up and find a teammate

Will watch closely againat Freo and see how many times he deliberately looks to hit up a target when bursting away from congestion

[freely]

Gresham looks to win the game off his own boot. Which would be exciting if he was capable of doing it. Along with all the rest of the team, the problem is/continues to be complete lack of team sensibility. It's coaching. The gameplan (whatever it is) doesn't seem to include playing for each other. Count the selfless acts. (Clue: it won't take you very long.)

[Yorkeys]

And King* could catch.

* excuse correct spelling

[lewdogs]

First game in almost a year after snapping his achilles, and he was still one of our best.