Max King turns down goal kicking help.

[R. Harvey 3 votes!]

We really are an absolute rabble and always will be!
Just another stupid decision in the long list that this club has made over many years

If that’s true it’s kinda laughable
The kid reached out......whose ego at the club is at risk of being bruised ifLoyd can help him???
It smacks of Shyte st Kilda thinking....just laughable

I hope the club knows what they are doing and it all works out ok but they don’t have a good track record with anything really so I have no faith that this won’t just be another f*** up but I’ll be happy to be proven wrong

[Waltzing St Kilda]

We'll know something has gone seriously wrong if Max continues to look like he'd rather be somewhere else in the coming weeks.

[Scollop]

We already know there's something seriously wrong....with the whole team

We are lacking enthusiasm and motivation. Our wins are ok but our percentage points to a team who cannot play to a high level on a consistent basis

I was at the practice game at RSEA park last year when we played Hawthorn (prior to the H&A rounds). Hill looked like he was worth whatever they paid as far as draft picks and as far his future salary, but for some reason he hasn't been able to play at his best or even close to his best.

I believe they brought in too many imports (especially with Wood, McKernan and Chip). Not sure we needed Higgins after the year Butler had but I'd prefer him long term rather than Lonie.

The coaches, footy managers, and the leadership in general is failing. They should come out and apologise to the fans for some of the embarrassing efforts.

Ratts needs to learn from his mistakes and start thinking about the whole squad rather than what's best for a few individuals. I'd like to see King dropped next week and not just 'managed'

Maybe do the same to Brad Hill. It's never too late to make a statement and send a message. Do what's necessary and bloody make some tough decisions!!

[The Fireman]

when they kick to kick (to each other) they never miss each other by the margins they miss the sticks.
When kicking for goal simply imagine kicking to a team mate...pick someone out behind goal..... it's all upstairs.

[WellardSaint]

I have never coached, but I always thought if a guy was struggling for touch or confidence, they get dropped to the VFL.
No shame in that really, isn't it a good way to reset and learn under less pressure and slower pace, until they're ready?
Fighter pilots in the RAAF start off in little propeller planes, humans have a learning curve.
Commercial pilots sometimes drop back to Flight Engineer duties (they sit behind the First Officer n co-pilot) and monitor instruments, talk on radio a bit, perform complicated checklists, etc

[freely]

when they kick to kick (to each other) they never miss each other by the margins they miss the sticks.
When kicking for goal simply imagine kicking to a team mate...pick someone out behind goal..... it's all upstairs.

I've seen this said a lot but surely, kicking like this would get punched through every time. Kicking for goal from a set shot you'd be having to kick to a team mate on the second tier.

[The Fireman]

when they kick to kick (to each other) they never miss each other by the margins they miss the sticks.
When kicking for goal simply imagine kicking to a team mate...pick someone out behind goal..... it's all upstairs.

I've seen this said a lot but surely, kicking like this would get punched through every time. Kicking for goal from a set shot you'd be having to kick to a team mate on the second tier.

correct , I concede the kicks are longer

[samoht]

I'm confident Max King is clever enough to calmly work it out himself.
He doesn't need any help, or any added pressure.

[repta]

I simply cant believe that no club uses any freely available IT software to analyse goal kicking.
Ever single other part of the game has a microscope taken to it.
The only skill that matters is treated as a kick and giggle to end a training session.

[Yorkeys]

I have noticed other teams miss kicks for goal and don't go all sack cloth and ashes. I think 8 of 18 sides kicked less points than goals in R11 and only a few had many less points than goals. Kennedy missed a couple at important times, Dickson looks vaudevillian at times.

North's full back looks a pretty fair player and extremely large, we do not deliver the ball to Max all that well, but yes he does not seem to demand the ball or leading corridors - too junior at this stage perhaps. Caused a couple of crumbed goals and chances. Max seems essential to any pretense we have a forward line rather than a collection of players on our attacking side of centre. He is a big unit and I image opposition coaches would love to see him playing VFL.

[axcellence]

I am not a Lloyd fan. But he had set shot kicking nailed at the Marvel Stadium. Mind boggling that such training would be cancelled??

[damienc]

I am not a Lloyd fan. But he had set shot kicking nailed at the Marvel Stadium. Mind boggling that such training would be cancelled??

Not sure people on this thread understand the King/Lloyd decision.

The club was behind the decision to cancel. The reason Lethlean gave it would conflict with the advice and tuition provided by Roughead.

Hard to understand with King really struggling in front of goal and clearly lost confidence.

King has a relationship with Lloyd that's been helpful. Struggling to see how this could be in any way negative.

Makes me wonder if our current problems are with the coaches and not the players.

[Teflon]

I am not a Lloyd fan. But he had set shot kicking nailed at the Marvel Stadium. Mind boggling that such training would be cancelled??

Not sure people on this thread understand the King/Lloyd decision.

The club was behind the decision to cancel. The reason Lethlean gave it would conflict with the advice and tuition provided by Roughead.

Hard to understand with King really struggling in front of goal and clearly lost confidence.

King has a relationship with Lloyd that's been helpful. Struggling to see how this could be in any way negative.

Makes me wonder if our current problems are with the coaches and not the players.

Yep as Cornes suggested.....it might mean we have a few precious coaches who don’t want to be shown up?????
Clearly Max has asked for some further help.......even for his confidence which looks shot you’d let him talk to Loyd??
Another dumb st Kilda decision....it’s very hard to see how this club is competent....

[axcellence]

I dunno how Max feels about it. I'd be pretty annoyed, if it were me.

[spert]

Nothing stopping Max catching up wth Lloyd in his spare time and having a kick in the park (lockdown permitting)

[Yorkeys]

Commentators as coaches. What could go wrong.

Cornes is always so measured, not, and Lloyd's sanctimony is sickening at times, like talking fairy floss. But still a self serving sniper. IMO.

Be careful Max, remember you are a professional, have contractual obligations to the Saints and most commentators that have never played for us have no interest in the Saints succeeding. On the other hand they do have a vested interest in you not improving as it is a story they can flog on and on.

[SaintDippa]

Never mind Lloyd and Roughy. Get Heatley back part time. Gold standard technique.

[The_Dud]

Commentators as coaches. What could go wrong. Cornes is always so measured, not, and Lloyd's sanctimony is sickening at times, like talking fairy floss. But still a self serving sniper. IMO. Be careful Max, remember you are a professional, have contractual obligations to the Saints and most commentators that have never played for us have no interest in the Saints succeeding. On the other hand they do have a vested interest in you not improving as it is a story they can flog on and on.

You seriously think Lloyd doesn’t want to see King succeed??

[CURLY]

Maybe the club believes to many voices and instructions isn't a good thing. They may be working through a program that is still ongoing and Lloyd as great s he is may deviate away from the path they are following.

[older saint]

remember last time we had a long term program for goal kicking- apart from Billings no one improved.

I just don't understand what make Lethlean such a "great asset" to best of my knowledge never played AFL/VFL, never coached , and only claim to fame in football is was Gil's mate sacked from the AFL for a bit of hanky panky.

someone please help me out here

[Impatient Sainter]

Lethlean was responding to questions as a result of questions raised after Lloyds release. You wonder how confident Max was in Roughy & Rath advice after he contacted Lloyd. Its obvious what he is doing is not working conseqyently, I think the club should have invited Lloyd in to spefically work with Max.

[The_Dud]

Another concern is that this year our once reliable kick for goal, Membrey, has fallen right off too and going at under 50%!

Goal kicking accuracy has been a big problem at the club since the early Richo days at least, I have no faith in anyone down there to be able to fix the problem.

[saynta]

That is simply not true older saint and haven't we been down this road before?

According to wikipedia Lethlean played 40 reserves games with Hawthorn in the 1990s .

He then had a distinguished playing career in the Amateurs where he was involved in 5 premierships. He also captained the VAFA representative team.

Later he coached Old Xaverians to premierships in 2009 and 2010.

He also coached the VAFA representative side to 6 wins from 6 games,

[evertonfc]

Sorry, but Matthew Lloyd is just about the perfect person.

- Max trusts him
- He overcame kicking woes early in his career
- He developed the most reliable set-shot routine in the game
- He communicates in a no-nonsense manner

I'm totally bemused that Roughead would be a better option than Lloyd. Good a player as Roughead was, he just seems like a knockabout country boy who likes basketball and plucked the idea of being a list manager out of the sky because he likes the NBA and salary caps.

That's how it began, now it's evolved into a coaching role, and quite frankly I'd feel a lot better if it was Lloyd doing the teaching. Because whatever we're teaching Max right now is not working.

[Yorkeys]

The grass toss may be an unnecessary complication at this point, but might be a way for Max to compose himself as it seemed to involve a longish 1000 yard stare into the the heavens. Perhaps a mural with Lloydy's smiling face on the roof at docklands could be his inspiration as we often lack a direct view of heaven from the playing surface.