Seb Ross

[damienc]

Thought I’d start a thread on who I think is the most unappreciated player on the list - Seb Ross

For some reason, supporters seem to be annoyed by his ability to find the footy, prefer other Mids - who don’t find the pill as much or perform at as high a level?!

I find it bizarre?!

Played 124 games

Since 2016 has been a starting midfielder
Had missed 1 game in that time
Has won two B&Fs 2017 & 2019
Finished 6th in 2016 and Second in 2018

He has average 28.1 disposals in that time
3.0 clangers
4.5 clearances, 9 contested possessions, 19 up
0.75 bounces
4.2 Tackles
0.2 goals, 0.5 goals assists
1.6 one percenters

42 Brownlow Votes (7 BOG)

Remarkable consistency and great attitude!

Elevated his running capacity, speed and endurance to rate top 5 at the club in both categories!

Yep. Agree 100 with this.

Leadership Group (voted by players) since 2017, Acting Captain, 2019.

In my mind, he is a super player, not elite but reliable and performs at a high level.

I would like to compare his ACTUAL output to some other Mids at StK (Admittedly Steele does a great job nullifying the oppositions best player)
Even compare him to some of the highly rated Mids in the AFL you’d be surprised!

Maybe people want him to be Patrick Cripps level or something?!
But when pointing the finger of blame at people for just reasonable results (12, 11, 4, 9 wins) over the last 4 seasons. I suggest look elsewhere.

Others who have performed consistently in that time
Geary, Roberton, Membrey, Steele

Yep. Agree 100 with this.

[CQ SAINT]

What is the goal assist stats out of curiosit?, I didn't think those stats were recorded when Harves played...maybe towards the end of his career?

Its only been recently that coaches have put systems in place to record and measure what happens after a player disposes of the ball.

It's why kicks, marks and handball records as stand alone stats is almost useless data for the modern AFL coach.

Was only recorded for Harves last 2 seasons, where he averaged 0.6 and 0.9 per game.

Seb’s career average is 0.44 per game, with no season being over 0.6.

Again, he’s not damaging enough, and doesn’t deserve to tie Harves bootlaces!

Note. Harves was 36 and 37 In those last 2 seasons, was he not?

[Joffa Burns]

Thought I’d start a thread on who I think is the most unappreciated player on the list - Seb Ross

For some reason, supporters seem to be annoyed by his ability to find the footy, prefer other Mids - who don’t find the pill as much or perform at as high a level?!

I find it bizarre?!

Played 124 games

Since 2016 has been a starting midfielder
Had missed 1 game in that time
Has won two B&Fs 2017 & 2019
Finished 6th in 2016 and Second in 2018

He has average 28.1 disposals in that time
3.0 clangers
4.5 clearances, 9 contested possessions, 19 up
0.75 bounces
4.2 Tackles
0.2 goals, 0.5 goals assists
1.6 one percenters

42 Brownlow Votes (7 BOG)

Remarkable consistency and great attitude!

Elevated his running capacity, speed and endurance to rate top 5 at the club in both categories!

Leadership Group (voted by players) since 2017, Acting Captain, 2019.

In my mind, he is a super player, not elite but reliable and performs at a high level.

I would like to compare his ACTUAL output to some other Mids at StK (Admittedly Steele does a great job nullifying the oppositions best player)
Even compare him to some of the highly rated Mids in the AFL you’d be surprised!

Maybe people want him to be Patrick Cripps level or something?!
But when pointing the finger of blame at people for just reasonable results (12, 11, 4, 9 wins) over the last 4 seasons. I suggest look elsewhere.

Others who have performed consistently in that time
Geary, Roberton, Membrey, Steele

Generalizing there BM.

I think Ross is a very good AFL B+ midfielder.

Lacks the disposal and speed to be elite but is a very good player who works very hard on his game.

Would get a game in most teams.

[desertsaint]

B+ is exactly what he is. which means when Steven was missing chunks in the midfield he was easily our best over richo's reign. Still is until someone lifts or Hannebury can play most of a season.

[B.M]

It’s not about whether he’s good as Harves

(Who I rate as the greatest saint - comfortably

No one played as many dominant games)

But it’s whether Seb is rated as he should be, and reading the ludicrous replies on this thread says NO!

He’s a dual b&f winner FFS!

And people want to down play actual performance, but then on the other hand try to convince themselves Acres or Dunstan are good players... what a joke!!!

It does show that some people on here have NFI!
Seriously!!

[B.M]

Joffa

Which teams wouldn’t Seb get a game with?

And his GPS rated him at 34.5 at top speed, only Kent has a higher speed last season.

[Scollop]

B+ is exactly what he is. which means when Steven was missing chunks in the midfield he was easily our best over richo's reign. Still is until someone lifts or Hannebury can play most of a season.

I'm not so sure he was our best. The last full year that Robbo played was 2017. I think Robbo was our best player round by round in that year

Seb was definitely our best accumulator over the last 3 years. He deserves credit for his consistency, but it's lazy and easy to look at stats at the end of a match instead of assessing the players who have the most influence.

https://afltables.com/afl/seas/2017.html

https://afltables.com/afl/brownlow/brownlow2017rbr.html

Sometimes the media and raw stat numbers tend to influence the people who have to lodge a 1 or 2 or 3 vote. In any case everyone understands that voting is subjective. An umpire's priority during a game is to adjudicate and a coaches priority during a game is to coach. Sometimes....I think they reluctantly put in their votes as an afterthought. Richo even found it within himself to give Billy Longer votes in a couple of games.

Richo thought Mav and Newnesy and Billy were unnappreciated

[The_Dud]

It’s not about whether he’s good as Harves

(Who I rate as the greatest saint - comfortably

No one played as many dominant games)

But it’s whether Seb is rated as he should be, and reading the ludicrous replies on this thread says NO!

He’s a dual b&f winner FFS!

And people want to down play actual performance, but then on the other hand try to convince themselves Acres or Dunstan are good players... what a joke!!!

It does show that some people on here have NFI!
Seriously!!

I think a lot of the comments are fair, he gets the ball but isn’t damaging enough with it.

Dunstan - 103 games, 45 goals
Acres - 75 games, 29 goals
Ross - 124 games, 22 goals

The elephant in the room that you haven’t addressed yet is his lack of goals. Are there any high quality mids in the league with a worse goals per game average than Seb?

[BarryGrogan]

Seb wouldn't get a game in most midfields as an attacking mid.

As a defensive mid however, he'd play in most. He's an A-Grade defensive mid.

He's a C-B offensive mid though.

Can't kick.

[saynta]

Thought I’d start a thread on who I think is the most unappreciated player on the list - Seb Ross

For some reason, supporters seem to be annoyed by his ability to find the footy, prefer other Mids - who don’t find the pill as much or perform at as high a level?!

I find it bizarre?!

Played 124 games

Since 2016 has been a starting midfielder
Had missed 1 game in that time
Has won two B&Fs 2017 & 2019
Finished 6th in 2016 and Second in 2018

He has average 28.1 disposals in that time
3.0 clangers
4.5 clearances, 9 contested possessions, 19 up
0.75 bounces
4.2 Tackles
0.2 goals, 0.5 goals assists
1.6 one percenters

42 Brownlow Votes (7 BOG)

Remarkable consistency and great attitude!

Elevated his running capacity, speed and endurance to rate top 5 at the club in both categories!

Leadership Group (voted by players) since 2017, Acting Captain, 2019.

In my mind, he is a super player, not elite but reliable and performs at a high level.

I would like to compare his ACTUAL output to some other Mids at StK (Admittedly Steele does a great job nullifying the oppositions best player)
Even compare him to some of the highly rated Mids in the AFL you’d be surprised!

Maybe people want him to be Patrick Cripps level or something?!
But when pointing the finger of blame at people for just reasonable results (12, 11, 4, 9 wins) over the last 4 seasons. I suggest look elsewhere.

Others who have performed consistently in that time
Geary, Roberton, Membrey, Steele

Generalizing there BM.

I think Ross is a very good AFL B+ midfielder.

Lacks the disposal and speed to be elite but is a very good player who works very hard on his game.

Would get a game in most teams.

Lacks speed ? Joke.

[saynta]

B+ is exactly what he is. which means when Steven was missing chunks in the midfield he was easily our best over richo's reign. Still is until someone lifts or Hannebury can play most of a season.

I'm not so sure he was our best. The last full year that Robbo played was 2017. I think Robbo was our best player round by round in that year

Seb was definitely our best accumulator over the last 3 years. He deserves credit for his consistency, but it's lazy and easy to look at stats at the end of a match instead of assessing the players who have the most influence.

https://afltables.com/afl/seas/2017.html

https://afltables.com/afl/brownlow/brownlow2017rbr.html

Sometimes the media and raw stat numbers tend to influence the people who have to lodge a 1 or 2 or 3 vote. In any case everyone understands that voting is subjective. An umpire's priority during a game is to adjudicate and a coaches priority during a game is to coach. Sometimes....I think they reluctantly put in their votes as an afterthought. Richo even found it within himself to give Billy Longer votes in a couple of games.

Richo thought Mav and Newnesy and Billy were unnappreciated

Coaches don't agree with you.

[Trev from the Bush]

Agree with B.M's opinion.

Comments that he "lacks" pace or speed can only mean the highly overrated "leg speed" , a knock the great Greg Williams had on him 3 and a half decades ago. He was not a sprinter but his lighting quick brain and reflex (and physical toughness) would still make him an automatic midfield selection at any club.

I refuse to compare Seb with Diesel, just as much as others refrain from using the words "Seb" and "Harves" in the same sentence. What Seb does possess is the luxury skill of finding himself a little space to think before disposing of the ball. It doesn't always mean an effective disposal - and build up of lactic acid always comes into play - but it is an attribute too few of our team possess.

I posted a long report back in March 2015 after our NAB game against the dopers at Morwell. I mentioned Seb absolutely dominated the game before he overstretched and tore a hammy just before half time. Despite missing the first half of the season he continued on with that form when he returned. He has not missed a beat since an has won 2 B&Fs. Realistically, what more could you expect of a player - to be mentioned in the same sentence as Williams and Harvey or something?

[fugazi]

Seb is a good player.
But the reason he isn't rated so highly is his kicking into the F50 is often terrible. So many times he spreads really well and gets the ball in a dangerous position and then kicks it to the opposition's spare defender.
If he improves in this area he may well become an A grader.

[CQ SAINT]

He doesnt lack pace. He lacks balance. His pace allows him to break, spread and burst. His lack of balance means he can't kick at pace, slows down to kick and his kicks balloon with out real penetration or over shoot the mark. This is my big knock on him. Obviously he has worked on it but it is incredibly hard to fix. At times he can do it but he slows down to a point where he looks under pressure and he rushes a lot of his kicks.

[The Barometer]

I don't think people underrate Ross. Its just that even though he is our best mid he is not Dusty, Fyfe, Selwood, Danger, Neale, Kennedy, Macrae, Sloane etc league. Lots of good reasons why provided in this thread and I'm not sure he can get over those deficiencies or elevate his strengths even higher to be seen in that league. He might not need to if we can unearth some bonafide attacking midfield stars, as Barry said, he could play the defensive role.

[B.M]

“I don’t think people underrate Seb”

The in the next sentence talk about all his deficiencies and compare him to the absolute elite of the competition.

I don’t think anyone is comparing him to Cripps, Mitchell, Bont, Martin, Fyfe etc... and I can tell you he doesn’t get paid nowhere near as much as they do.
But coming off a 14 Brownlow vote season in an average team, highlights he can mix it with most.

I love the down play of all the positives and highlight of any negatives to suit agendas

But at the end of the day, the coach(es) rate his last 3 seasons as outstanding first, second, first in the B&F and you cannot get away from that - so he’s doing something right - or do forumites know more than coaches?

I also was unaware the Mids were rated on goals kicked?
It’s one measurement out of plenty. Clearances, UPs and CPs, efficiency, GAs, Tackles, Bounces, Centre Clearances
All stats to measure output
Goals scored is one measure, Scott West one of the best Mids in his generation averaged 0.3gpg Sam Mitchell another of the very best Mids ever to play averaged 0.2gpg. Should I find a few more, How about Brownlow medallist and multiple B&F winner Matt Priddis at 0.3, even our own Jack Steele at 0.3gpg.
There is more to being a mid than kicking goals, nice if you can, but if you generate scores for others, that’s the key.

What skill he does possess, is that he can win the footy, which is the most important skill in footy, because without it your not even getting a kick!

And I just checked out his woeful kicking efficiency
At 72.9 for an inside Mid
Rated above average
But I suppose that stat is a waste of time if it doesn’t suit the argument.

Supporters believe coaches overrate Seb, therefore in my mind underrate him - and judging by this thread it’s ridiculous

[Joffa Burns]

Joffa

Which teams wouldn’t Seb get a game with?

And his GPS rated him at 34.5 at top speed, only Kent has a higher speed last season.

Probably bad wording when I wrote most teams, you'd assume all but perhaps not a first string mid at say Collingwood who have Treloar & Adams who are high accumulators and Treloar who is also a line breaker.

Perhaps would have top change his role at a club with a strong midfield.

Whilst obviously Seb has a decent top speed as indicated by your numbers (and Saynta), I don't see Seb as explosive to speed away from the contest. Interesting on Kent who has a high top speed but isn't agile and doesn't move well laterally, also doesn't use his speed with intent to tackle, harass or impact the contest.

Harves was explosive over 10, Steven was quick but not super fast but nimble and had a lot of intensity and desire to use every ounce of his pack and agility to break away from a contest, where I may be wrong but don't see Seb in that manner.

[saynta]

Seb is our best player. Full stop. 2 best and fairest and one runner up in the past three years is ample confirmation.

The s*** about him being slow and a poor kick is just that... s***. Stats prove the knockers dead wrong.

[The Barometer]

“I don’t think people underrate Seb”

The in the next sentence talk about all his deficiencies and compare him to the absolute elite of the competition.

What skill he does possess, is that he can win the footy, which is the most important skill in footy, because without it your not even getting a kick!

And I just checked out his woeful kicking efficiency
At 72.9 for an inside Mid
Rated above average
But I suppose that stat is a waste of time if it doesn’t suit the argument.

Supporters believe coaches overrate Seb, therefore in my mind underrate him - and judging by this thread it’s ridiculous

um ok... do you actually take the time to properly read what people write? yes he has strengths, yes he has deficiencies, that is why he is not elite. Do you think he is elite? In which case you overrate him.

BTW, if you want to quote you can use the " button in the top right corner of each post.

[B.M]

Ah...

Getting desperate talking about the quoting, I think you know I’m referring to you.. or you wouldn’t have replied.

Next you’ll be picking up spelling or grammar?!

Barometer
I rate him in a similar vein to the coaches

A quality player, best performed on our list (not best player)
I’d have him as an A Grade mid.

[Secret Kiel]

Here's one for you BM, if Seb is the best performed on our list and considered B grade by some fans, what is Jack Steven grade now he is on the Cats list.

[B.M]

Jack is no longer on stk list, I did state that bar Jack S, Seb has been the best player this half of the decade.

Jack is clearly A Grade

At his best elite

A better player than Seb, a better player than most.

Hannebury is also a better player than Seb, but his last 3 years have been sub par
And I said last 4 years performance.

Best players at StK on pure ability
Hannebury
Carlisle
Billings
Hill
Gresham
Ross
Clark
Marshall
Ryder
Long

Best performed
Hill
Ross
Marshall
Steele

[Scollop]

At least Jack Steven attempted a few field passes on his non preferred

One of the reasons I don't think that Seb's last 2 years were elite is because he gets stopped in his tracks too easily when he needs to kick with his right foot. Opposition players know it's his weakness

Seb has been rated by his coaches and rewarded for his consistency. He deserves credit for being a good player but that doesn't mean he doesn't have deficiencies. He clearly needs to show improvement as do many of his teammates

[To the top]

Whilst Ross is winning B&F’s we are a bottom side

Whilst Geary is Captain and revered we are a bottom side

And that is the history

I have put on these sites over a period of time that just 22 goals in 124 games is indicative of the problem

By comparison, what was Armitage’s career return?

Ross is a poor man’s Armitage

[Secret Kiel]

So can you be elite if you haven't won an AA, MVP, Brownlow and/or Norm smith?

Don't think Jack was ever elite, possiblely was A grade at his peak which was very brief.

As I said in the breakout thread, this could be a breakout year for Seb Ross funnily enough. He could go from being our best performed to winning wider industry respect, possibly validated with one of the awards mentioned above.