Round 22 Adam Goodes

[Dis Believer]

So.. you realliy think that it is a co-incidence that the only person who is boo-ed consistently happens to be the guy who speaks out for Aboriginal peoples and their issues?

Some great cosmic co-incidence that such person is considered the biggest "flog" in the AFL and deserving of special treatment by the public because of his clear flogdom compared to the rest of the AFL players?

No I don't think that, but I do think he's the first one to have a big sook about it and seemingly let it get to it and effect his game. If Joe Public supporting the opposition suspects that, they jump straight on board. That is why I suspect many in the crowd do it. For many I suspect it's part of joining in the "theatre" of footy, a bit like the kids in the audience booing the pantomime villain.

[saynta]

There is some truth in this article even if it is from the herald sun

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinio ... 7460762592

"There’s no doubt that part of the reason why Goodes has continued to be loudly booed is a backlash to the hectoring of media scribes who from day one wilfully misinterpreted why the former Australian of the Year is disliked by so many opposition supporters.

Turns out football supporters don’t appreciate being falsely labelled racists.

Sadly, the ill-advised reaction of certain sections of the media, as well as club and AFL officials, has all but guaranteed that Goodes will be booed, in every away game, for the rest of his playing career and perhaps even during the retiree lap of honour on Grand Final day.

Eager to portray any criticism of Goodes as racist, some have ignored the reality of why Goodes polarises and antagonises, and it’s not just about staging for free kicks or being a “sook”.

The failure of some to understand why Goodes is disliked leads them to conclude that it must be about race.

Their lack of insight and intellect means innocent footy supporters are branded bigots.

The desperation to inject racism into the debate ignores the fact that indigenous players are often the most loved and celebrated players. The same Hawthorn fans who were condemned for booing Goodes wet themselves with excitement whenever Cyril Rioli gets near the ball.

The West Coast fans at the centre of the latest controversy have five Aboriginal players on their list as well as crowd favourite Nic Naitanui, whose heritage is Fijian. And yet thousands of them have been called racist because one moron yelled out “get back to the zoo”.

Some see the spear-throwing antics of Goodes and Lewis Jetta as intimidating and adding fuel to the fire; I disagree. The interaction with the crowd is pure theatre. But let’s get one thing straight; there is no historical cultural significance to the so-called “war cry” Goodes and Jetta performed; it was invented a few short years ago and to compare it with the haka is laughable.

Those keen to portray fans as racist tend to be miserable self-loathing Leftists who see Australia as some backward, xenophobic corner of the world. Goodes being booed is just another reason to slam their country as racist. The truth is immaterial."

[satchmo]

Ok...say Goodes tackles Roo, and gets into his back. The umpire pays the free kick to Roo...the Swans crowd boo...all Saints fans are therefore racist. Game over. If I was a Swans fan I'd boo just for lulz.

[The Linton Street Flash]

I used to like Goodes...now I don't...am I an adjustable racist ?

No... you sir, are what is commonly known as a f%&kwit!

[magnifisaint]

I think in order to keep Goodes happy, the AFL will have an Adam Goodes round.

No other aboriginal player gets booed like him so I personally don't think the boos are racist. I think it's the way he's carries himself on the field. I think he just thinks he's so good, which he is. It's almost like he struts around on the field when he plays. Maybe that's the way he just is and it isn't a conscious thing. I think the crowd think he's a punce because of their perception of what he is. Is that wrong?

[saynta]

I think in order to keep Goodes happy, the AFL will have an Adam Goodes round.

No other aboriginal player gets booed like him so I personally don't think the boos are racist. I think it's the way he's carries himself on the field. I think he just thinks he's so good, which he is. It's almost like he struts around on the field when he plays. Maybe that's the way he just is and it isn't a conscious thing. I think the crowd think he's a punce because of their perception of what he is. Is that wrong?

Well, that was part of it originally.

Even my partner thinks he's arrogant, but I think it got out of hand with all the reporters and footy scribes and their ilk,telling us what we think and accusing ordinary Aussies as being racist.

But in the cold light of day it now does have racial overtones, smacks of mob mentality and plain bullying. It should stop.

[jonesy]

Rita,the voice of common sense, again

[magnifisaint]

I think in order to keep Goodes happy, the AFL will have an Adam Goodes round.

No other aboriginal player gets booed like him so I personally don't think the boos are racist. I think it's the way he's carries himself on the field. I think he just thinks he's so good, which he is. It's almost like he struts around on the field when he plays. Maybe that's the way he just is and it isn't a conscious thing. I think the crowd think he's a punce because of their perception of what he is. Is that wrong?

Well, that was part of it originally.

Even my partner thinks he's arrogant, but I think it got out of hand with all the reporters and footy scribes and their ilk,telling us what we think and accusing ordinary Aussies as being racist.

But in the cold light of day it now does have racial overtones, smacks of mob mentality and plain bullying. It should stop.

I think you're right. For whatever reason the booing should stop. I think that the individual clubs should be the ones spreading the message to their supporters, not the AFL as a collective. The supporters won't listen to them?

[resaintlee]

Another article attempting to confront this issue.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2 ... t-stack-up

[mullet]

I totally accept that the booing is bullying. I hope from now on that any player who feels they are being bullied can speak up and it will stop.

I could not accept that everyone who booed is a racist.

Some may be, but some may be weird sex perverts as well.

That is the way to tackle it, even the kids will understand about bullying.

[Austinnn]

Whether or not you yourself are racist, plenty of Australian are. No, I don't have statistics. No, ok I can't even say that it's a majority. So go ahead and shoot my argument down. You can look around you and decide for yourself. But what you have written so far in these two threads suggests that you don't even recognise it when you see it, apologies if that's not the case.

In your 6th paragraph are you saying that I probably don't realise that I am racist. Can you explain to me how I have been racist and how you seem to know me so well. If you are calling me an ignorant racist you are in need of help. You know nothing of me or my life . God help us all if we now can be accused of being something on the grounds that you don't realise it your self. But yeah thanks Austinn must be awesome in that ivory tower of yours looking down on all us ignorant fools

OK, I never said that you were racist. You're getting too defensive, which I'm sorry about but not for. I won't apologise for your misunderstanding but as an olive branch, after I read your complaint, I did look at everything you posted in this thread and the other one and I agree that there's nothing there which clealy suggests you don't recognise racism when you see it, (which is what I actually said)so I was wrong there Mullet, and I'm sorry for hurting your feelings.

And no it's not that awesome: I'd rather be able to look up and see a lovely ivory tower than a whole bunch of fools!

[Austinnn]

The worst part of all this is that now it's just about booing, so once again those tricky f***ers have weasled out of confronting their racism or hate of agitators.

But this always happens: once enough people start calling others on their idiotic ideas, it seems like a gang press and then those with the ideas can tell themselves that they are the victims, they are being oppressed. Listen to all those straight white men who whinge about straight white men being an oppressed minority or others who complain about political correctness gone mad.

Then opinion gets polarised into for or against, hackles get raised, all nuance gets forgotten and then it is just about this one tiny part rather than the global picture.

Put it this way: if I was one of those people who wanted Adam Goodes to feel s***, I'd be organising a campaign on social media to be stone quiet or turn my back every time he got the ball. You can't be criticised for that and Goodes would get the message.

So the booing would stop, the hate would continue and no one would ask why.

Everyone's now parrotting the line that booing equals racism so don't boo everybody. Don't show your racism, don't make us look racist. But you feel free to go through your life being racist and not questioning yourself.

Just to clarify, I don't want to control your mind or anything like the Bolt-like fearmongers would have people believe. I would just prefer people to ask themselves the question that Super Duper poses here:

People can keep repeating "he is a flog" as many times as they like.

But the fact is, there are far bigger flogs in tha AFL, including people convicted of violent crimes.
There are also many players who have worse records of on-field dirty play

So.. you realliy think that it is a co-incidence that the only person who is boo-ed consistently happens to be the guy who speaks out for Aboriginal peoples and their issues?

Some great cosmic co-incidence that such person is considered the biggest "flog" in the AFL and deserving of special treatment by the public because of his clear flogdom compared to the rest of the AFL players?

is it really so clear from his on and off field behaviour that he is a bigger flog than anyone else in the AFL? And each individual in the crowd recognised this on their own and made their own individual decision that he is the person in the AFL that deserves to be boo-ed?

The booing is just symptomatic of the hate, and until we deal with the hate, racism will remain.

Once again, I DON'T think hating Goodes means you are automatically racist, (despite lots of racists clearly hating him) and the absolutism that is rife in a poorly skilled and malevolently run Australian media filters down into governmental decisions and social conflicts and this is destroying the country.

And no one should feel obliged to like or support someone they just don't care for. As someone who admires Goodes and respects his actions and words, all I'm doing is defending and supporting him in the face of unfair amounts of negativity.

Really sorry for rambling, I know my posts are always too long and frequent. You can always put me on ignore if you don't like it. I do try to keep it short, if that's any consolation.

[gringo]

I think most people are casually racist. I would even say that of myself if I was honest. You prejudge a group of black youths more than a white one if they are coming towards you down the street. You prejudge them as less reliable with out evidence of the individuals record, just look at football, we all think they have a magic touch but they are equally seen as being flighty and unreliable. The idea they have a magic touch with ball skills is a nice thing for people to believe true or not but the negative is a burden and there are a lot of others we attach to them.

You tend to accept muslims as sympathising with terrorists. Basically we all do it to some degree. It's pretty confronting to deal with and would rather it not be an issue. I don't think there are many good role models out there projecting a strong successful image. Goodes makes small gestures that unwittingly become huge. I'm not sure why he's at fault as much as the media who make it a story.

[markp]

You think the afl gives a shyte about the real issues here, Austin?

It's the bad optics for the brand they care about... Once that's fixed it's back to normal transmission, job done.

[markp]

I think most people are casually racist. I would even say that of myself if I was honest. You prejudge a group of black youths more than a white one if they are coming towards you down the street. You prejudge them as less reliable with out evidence of the individuals record, just look at football, we all think they have a magic touch but they are equally seen as being flighty and unreliable. The idea they have a magic touch with ball skills is a nice thing for people to believe true or not but the negative is a burden and there are a lot of others we attach to them.

You tend to accept muslims as sympathising with terrorists. Basically we all do it to some degree. It's pretty confronting to deal with and would rather it not be an issue. I don't think there are many good role models out there projecting a strong successful image. Goodes makes small gestures that unwittingly become huge. I'm not sure why he's at fault as much as the media who make it a story.

We are hard wired to make snap assessments of people, don't beat yourself up over it!

[matrix]

so turning your back on him when he gets the ball is the answer
so you can face the person and boo him and its a racist thing
but you can stand up and turn your back on him and thats not showing any racism at all is it

[Con Gorozidis]

Love this idea that anyone is being denied their rights to be an arsehole!

Knock yourselves out, but don't you dare assume you are beyond reproach and don't deny us our rights to call you on it.

A couple of people have just asked politely for you not to do it. If you do do it, then you deserve to be held accountable for your actions, like anyone else.

We can thank George Brandis for this.

Other people are dicks so I have a right to be a dick too seems to be the general consensus.

[Con Gorozidis]

I think most people are casually racist. I would even say that of myself if I was honest. You prejudge a group of black youths more than a white one if they are coming towards you down the street. You prejudge them as less reliable with out evidence of the individuals record, just look at football, we all think they have a magic touch but they are equally seen as being flighty and unreliable. The idea they have a magic touch with ball skills is a nice thing for people to believe true or not but the negative is a burden and there are a lot of others we attach to them.

You tend to accept muslims as sympathising with terrorists. Basically we all do it to some degree. It's pretty confronting to deal with and would rather it not be an issue. I don't think there are many good role models out there projecting a strong successful image. Goodes makes small gestures that unwittingly become huge. I'm not sure why he's at fault as much as the media who make it a story.

For sure. I am not high and mighty on this. I am definitely racist. I think its probably in our dna to fear and mistrust the 'other'. Thats why education is important. So we can reason with ourselves and say yeah nah, im being a bit racist here.

[Con Gorozidis]

Can't remember this support and outrage all the years Milne copped it. Please Goodes get over yourself.

He was also found guilty of indecent assault. But I think he copped a much greater punishment over the years than others in that situation.
But how is that relevant here? What kind of bench-mark are we setting? 'Other people are assholes so let's be assholes too?"

It's booing FFS he is 35 years old. They boo Stevie J Hayden B WB supporters boo Riewoldt. There grown men getting thousands to play football just get on with it.

??? So because Milne got booed, Adam should get booed? It wasnt ok to boo MIlne. Two wrongs dont make a right.

And nobody boos Roo. They say 'Rooooooooooo'. Can we cut that crap out. Nobody boos Roo. FFS.

Con, Roo has been booed for years... we musta been going to different games.

He was seen as a sook and a protected species and overrated and a bit up himself by opposition supporters... Sound familiar?

Now imagine if he'd come out and done a (Germanic!?) war dance and complained about the booing and said it upsets him.

And plenty of players have been routinely booed over the years... of course they have, I used to be among those that booed Buckley's every possession. It's just (until now...) part of the silly theatre of the game.

But it's all irrelevant now, to boo goodes is entirely racist all the time, and to not condemn as such it is too.

Will be an ejectable offence by the time we play the swans.

That was about 15 years ago. I dont believe he has been booed in a long time. I believe you are just hearing the 'Roooooooooooo.'

[Con Gorozidis]

People can keep repeating "he is a flog" as many times as they like.

But the fact is, there are far bigger flogs in tha AFL, including people convicted of violent crimes.
There are also many players who have worse records of on-field dirty play

So.. you realliy think that it is a co-incidence that the only person who is boo-ed consistently happens to be the guy who speaks out for Aboriginal peoples and their issues?

Some great cosmic co-incidence that such person is considered the biggest "flog" in the AFL and deserving of special treatment by the public because of his clear flogdom compared to the rest of the AFL players?

is it really so clear from his on and off field behaviour that he is a bigger flog than anyone else in the AFL? And each individual in the crowd recognised this on their own and made their own individual decision that he is the person in the AFL that deserves to be boo-ed? Wow, lo and behold everyone else is booing as well, who would have thought?

it is mob mentality and is underpinned by racism.
Boo-boys can deny this as much as they want.

This is how racism works people.

Dont join the mob. Stand up to them and tell them it is not right.

Awesome post.

[Con Gorozidis]

Dear me, never has there been a clearer case of people deliberately missing the point than some on here.


To even imagine that a white person being called an Alpaca in Australia is the same as a Black person being called an ape. That is pure ignorance of the issue. I'm not hysterical for pointing that out, am I? I can quite calmly explain the difference if you really need to be told. I'd rather not. How about just for starters, consider the years and years of downward dehumanising black people, is some cases using the exact same term. Compare that to the meagre history of dehumanising of white people.

To even bother getting worked up about the difference between ape and gorilla. Who let Karl Pilkington on here?

The rest, just mind blowing the lengths of denial people will go to to avoid confronting the truth.

No wonder Australia is in need of people like Adam Goodes today. I hope after he retires other black players are brave enough to risk the treatment he got to try and shine a light on the Shameful side of what many other countries consider a paradise.

Here, here. Much better than I could have ever put it. Well done Austinnn.

Pluggs, you gained a lot of my respect in this thread.

Probably best just to close this thread now IMO.

My inference was to point out that we can be targeted and upset in so many ways no matter what the colour of your skin , immediately I was set upon by the forum guru.
The fact that Plugger gained respect in OLd Mates eyes is a fair indication of how skewed this thread has been and how easily some jump on others at the slightest hint of impropriety .

This type of reaction could turn things for the worse.

Firey you're a good egg in my books but I reckon you are a bit off on this topic, as are many. Btw my opinion isn't full proof either.

Would I have a beer with Goodesy? Nope just not the kind of bloke I associate with. Do I respect him. Yup.

The fact is, Goodes is the face of anti racism in Australia. He does a s*** load for the aboriginal community especially young indigenous males and has a real positive impact on many lives. He's a role model. The positives far our way the negatives with regard to Adam.

Now, picture the outspoken face of anti racism playing footy and a large section of crowds, none which would include any aboriginals (i reckon so anyway), the majority of which are Caucasian Australians (assumption again but pretty good evidence to suggest this) booing this bloke who is the face of anti racism. It doesn't look good.

Whether we like it or not, perception is reality. You gotta admit, it looks racist with these sections of white Aussies booing a black bloke especially when you take into account what he represents.

I reckon even the dumbest bogans would realise it doesn't look good....but they continue to boo "cos it's their right and Goodes is a s*** bloke", right?

Not fact but my opinion: racist Aussies are using the s*** bloke analogy as a disguise to be racist towards Goodes. Not all are a racist btw.

Continued opinion: a large portion of white Aussies don't like the fact that Goodes is outspoken about his views, which mainly extend to Australia being behind the eight all with regards to racism in a 1st world country.

With regard to ape vs alpaca argument. I refer to Gringo and Austinnn's posts. The difference is rather simple is easy to understand why one analogy is racist.

Cheers.

Great post.

[Con Gorozidis]

Can I ask if the boo-ing is race driven, then why are no other indigenious players being booed? (To my knowledge anyway).

I don't or wouldn't boo, but I think this is personality based not race based. In my opinion.

Because no other indigenous player speaks out and makes us feel uncomfortable.

Michael Long and Nicky Winmar were never booed. They were commended and respected.
They did more to raise awareness of racism in football than Adam Goodes has ever done.

They did it in an era where it was far more confronting than it is today. It is not as confronting today because of the stand they took and the work they did and continue to do.

Both fairly quiet blokes. Adam is more of a spokesman. Is that what makes peopele think he is an 'arrogant flog'? From all reports he is a real gentleman off field and great with kids etc etc.

I think Old Mate has made a good point. Even if it really is his personality - the fact a bunch of whities are booing the black public face of anti-racism is just very off now.

[Griggsy]

I totally accept that the booing is bullying. I hope from now on that any player who feels they are being bullied can speak up and it will stop.

I could not accept that everyone who booed is a racist.

Some may be, but some may be weird sex perverts as well.

That is the way to tackle it, even the kids will understand about bullying.

Exactly, it's bullying.

So one Carlton mob got under his skin and he reacted, does bullying stop once asked to stop, no it gets worse.

For example I've seen in nba games the crowd bringing huge cutouts of a certain players ex-wife. If he reacted to those you can guarantee there would be a thousand of those things at the next game, it's not because the said player is black. It's just the hostile crowd factor mixed with bullying, if you think the same thing wouldn't happen the world over you are kidding yourself.

[markp]

Can't remember this support and outrage all the years Milne copped it. Please Goodes get over yourself.

He was also found guilty of indecent assault. But I think he copped a much greater punishment over the years than others in that situation.
But how is that relevant here? What kind of bench-mark are we setting? 'Other people are assholes so let's be assholes too?"

It's booing FFS he is 35 years old. They boo Stevie J Hayden B WB supporters boo Riewoldt. There grown men getting thousands to play football just get on with it.

??? So because Milne got booed, Adam should get booed? It wasnt ok to boo MIlne. Two wrongs dont make a right.

And nobody boos Roo. They say 'Rooooooooooo'. Can we cut that crap out. Nobody boos Roo. FFS.

Con, Roo has been booed for years... we musta been going to different games.

He was seen as a sook and a protected species and overrated and a bit up himself by opposition supporters... Sound familiar?

Now imagine if he'd come out and done a (Germanic!?) war dance and complained about the booing and said it upsets him.

And plenty of players have been routinely booed over the years... of course they have, I used to be among those that booed Buckley's every possession. It's just (until now...) part of the silly theatre of the game.

But it's all irrelevant now, to boo goodes is entirely racist all the time, and to not condemn as such it is too.

Will be an ejectable offence by the time we play the swans.

That was about 15 years ago. I dont believe he has been booed in a long time. I believe you are just hearing the 'Roooooooooooo.'

As K pointed out, the roooo was to counter it.

And the closest I've come to fighting at the footy was with a filth supporter cheering when he was injured... He was far from alone and it was after they'd been booing and jeering him all game, as usual.

But it doesn't suit your narrative so let's just say it has only ever happened to 'goodesy'.

[Con Gorozidis]

Can't remember this support and outrage all the years Milne copped it. Please Goodes get over yourself.

He was also found guilty of indecent assault. But I think he copped a much greater punishment over the years than others in that situation.
But how is that relevant here? What kind of bench-mark are we setting? 'Other people are assholes so let's be assholes too?"

It's booing FFS he is 35 years old. They boo Stevie J Hayden B WB supporters boo Riewoldt. There grown men getting thousands to play football just get on with it.

??? So because Milne got booed, Adam should get booed? It wasnt ok to boo MIlne. Two wrongs dont make a right.

And nobody boos Roo. They say 'Rooooooooooo'. Can we cut that crap out. Nobody boos Roo. FFS.

Con, Roo has been booed for years... we musta been going to different games.

He was seen as a sook and a protected species and overrated and a bit up himself by opposition supporters... Sound familiar?

Now imagine if he'd come out and done a (Germanic!?) war dance and complained about the booing and said it upsets him.

And plenty of players have been routinely booed over the years... of course they have, I used to be among those that booed Buckley's every possession. It's just (until now...) part of the silly theatre of the game.

But it's all irrelevant now, to boo goodes is entirely racist all the time, and to not condemn as such it is too.

Will be an ejectable offence by the time we play the swans.

That was about 15 years ago. I dont believe he has been booed in a long time. I believe you are just hearing the 'Roooooooooooo.'

As K pointed out, the roooo was to counter it.

And the closest I've come to fighting at the footy was with a filth supporter cheering when he was injured... He was far from alone and it was after they'd been booing and jeering him all game, as usual.

But it doesn't suit your narrative so let's just say it has only ever happened to 'goodesy'.

What?

1. I asked when the Roo incident happened - I very much doubt it was in the last few years.
2. It is also completely irrelevant to the narrative but way to miss the point spectacularly. A red herring. I think Old Mate and SuperDuper make the point quite well (above).
3. What exactly are you fighting for? The right to be an asshole?